PGT: An ugly win is still a win - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 12-03-2013, 10:55 PM

Nice turnaround by Dirk, finishing 10-21 after starting 1-10.

Great finish by the Mavs.

Melonhead · 12-03-2013, 10:56 PM

Just browsing stats and I know Calderon is hurt but 33 minutes/1 assist?

Bayliss · 12-03-2013, 10:58 PM

What was the song they just played at the end? Something about "no stopping us...."

EricaLubarsky · 12-03-2013, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Just browsing stats and I know Calderon is hurt but 33 minutes/1 assist?

Ellis has become the primary playmaker. Calderon is here to hit threes.

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Just browsing stats and I know Calderon is hurt but 33 minutes/1 assist?

strange medicine.

Sportstudi · 12-03-2013, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Ellis has become the primary playmaker. Calderon is here to hit threes.

Calderon has become a spot-up shooter these days. Well, doesn't harm that much as he has been unable to find Dirk in his sweet spots this season. Ellis knows this much better.

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:01 PM

Blair tied for second most assists tonight with Carter. They each had 3. WHAAAA?

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:05 PM

Dirk.

Melonhead · 12-03-2013, 11:07 PM

Calderon=Kyle Korver

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:07 PM

Good stat from Timmy Mac:
Nowitzki and Ellis accounted for Dallas’ final 19 points

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...medium=twitter

LSMF · 12-03-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Good stat from Timmy Mac:
Nowitzki and Ellis accounted for Dallas’ final 19 points

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...medium=twitter

Now if only we could somehow get a legit 3rd scorer...

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Calderon=Kyle Korver

Actually, Korver is very underrated in other aspects. Dude averages 5 boards, 3 assists, a block, a steal, and plays decent D (good size at the 3, too).

Vinsanity · 12-03-2013, 11:10 PM

We couldn't buy a basket in the first half, but being able to come back and finish off a close game was great to see... Regardless of who we were playing. Dirk and Monta had incredible second halves and just took over in the fourth. Also had some some solid backup PG play with Larkin + Mekel combining for 0 points on 0-4 shooting. (Jk, we REALLY need Harris back!)

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:11 PM

Dirk had 14 in the 4th. But...I thought he couldn't score in the 4th anymore? Wasn't that another DM.com false narrative? (Nevermind the fact he's averaging 34 PPG per 48 in the clutch BEFORE tonight...)

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinsanity

We couldn't buy a basket in the first half, but being able to come back and finish off a close game was great to see... Regardless of who we were playing. Dirk and Monta had incredible second halves and just took over in the fourth. Also had some some solid backup PG play with Larkin + Mekel combining for 0 points on 0-4 shooting. (Jk, we REALLY need Harris back!)

Mekel tried to foil that comeback. He had Crowder wide open for a dunk sprinting the floor and turned it over.

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Mekel tried to foil that comeback. He had Crowder wide open for a dunk sprinting the floor and turned it over.

Gal was feeling the pressure of Jewish Heritage Night at the AAC.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-03-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Ellis is garbage.

sike · 12-03-2013, 11:24 PM

Here is a nit pick of mine: 35min and only 3 rebs for the Dirkster.

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Gal was feeling the pressure of Jewish Heritage Night at the AAC.

I wonder if Stern would let him wear a yamika. Apparently this player for Northwestern got to wear one on the court...I dk how it didn't get knocked off.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-03-2013, 11:38 PM

Kinda sad to see Zeller being a huge bust so far.

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Here is a nit pick of mine: 35min and only 3 rebs for the Dirkster.

Dirk wasn't giving up boards. Rebounding wasn't an issue tonight and he was usually guarding McBob or Zeller on the perimeter. Mavs rebound the ball defensively a whipping SEVEN PERCENT better with Dirk on the court.

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-03-2013, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Ellis was a net negative tonight. He finally hit a few big shots late, but he was used by Henderson all night. He's got to start getting to the basket more like he did early on in the season.

particleman · 12-03-2013, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Ellis was a net negative tonight. He finally hit a few big shots late, but he was used by Henderson all night. He's got to start getting to the basket more like he did early on in the season.

So you think the Mavs would have fared better tonight if Ellis hadn't played at all?

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-04-2013, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

So you think the Mavs would have fared better tonight if Ellis hadn't played at all?

I don't recall saying that (though if his minutes actually went to Ellington, it's debatable).

EricaLubarsky · 12-04-2013, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Now if only we could somehow get a legit 3rd scorer...

Meh. Just give me a team that could defend. We are every bit as potent offensively as the team that won the trophy. We just can't defend.

That team: defended everything. Caused misses. Got rebounds. Dirk hit daggers.

This team: stupid fouls, open players, too often the opponent scores. Dirk hits big shots, but needs to make more of them and none seem as impressive.

particleman · 12-04-2013, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

I don't recall saying that (though if his minutes actually went to Ellington, it's debatable).

So what exactly do you mean by "net negative?"

Also, I don't recall you saying it either, which is why I asked the question.

howdoesmydirktaste · 12-04-2013, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Ellis was a net negative tonight. He finally hit a few big shots late, but he was used by Henderson all night. He's got to start getting to the basket more like he did early on in the season.

The knock on the Mavs during their losing streak is that they've been fading late. You just acknowledged that Ellis hit a few big shots late. In other words, Ellis did what he is paid to do tonight. We won.

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-04-2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

So what exactly do you mean by "net negative?"

Also, I wouldn't have asked the question if you HAD said that. I'm not sure if you were just randomly stating that you hadn't said something or if you thought that I thought you had said that. Either way, doesn't make much sense to me.

Net negative. As in, his plus/minus in a 7 point win was -5 tonight. I didn't say if he hadn't played they would have been better off (mostly because the other options aren't pretty). I simply stated a statistical fact. Still confused?

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-04-2013, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howdoesmydirktaste

The knock on the Mavs during their losing streak is that they've been fading late. You just acknowledged that Ellis hit a few big shots late. In other words, Ellis did what he is paid to do tonight. We won.

Oh, I didn't realize his expectations were solely to make several shots in the 4th quarter.

sike · 12-04-2013, 12:26 AM

From Calderon's Twitter Feed: "Good to be back! Wasn't pretty but we really needed the W."

particleman · 12-04-2013, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Net negative. As in, his plus/minus in a 7 point win was -5 tonight. I didn't say if he hadn't played they would have been better off (mostly because the other options aren't pretty). I simply stated a statistical fact. Still confused?

Did someone accuse you of saying that the Mavs would have been better off without Ellis tonight? You seem to be really adamant about that point.

Your original statement would be less confusing if you made it clear that you were talking about that particular statistic. Perhaps it's just me, but I found the phrase "ellis was a net negative tonight" to be a bit vague.

sike · 12-04-2013, 12:34 AM

Single Game +/- is such a terrible stat to use against a player.

Carter was a +3, Blair was a +11, Larkin a +6, and Gal +4.

Give any of those guys Ellis shots or give it to Ellington and this game is very likely an L.

Let Ellis get injured and see how this team does with +3 Carter taking an extra 10 shots and Ellington getting 8. Yikes.

+/- is so imperfect at explaining how a single player played in a single game.

I'm glad to see that many advanced metric guys are putting less and less value in it at evaluating players individual effectiveness.

Underdog · 12-04-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAdamMorrison

Oh, I didn't realize his expectations were solely to make several shots in the 4th quarter.

The expectation is that he'd help us win games, and that's exactly what Ellis did.

Underdog · 12-04-2013, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Single Game +/- is such a terrible stat to use against a player.

Carter was a +3, Blair was a +11, Larkin a +6, and Gal +4.

Give any of those guys Ellis shots or give it to Ellington and this game is very likely an L.

Let Ellis get injured and see how this team does with +3 Carter taking an extra 10 shots and Ellington getting 8. Yikes.

+/- is so imperfect at explaining how a single player played.

I'm glad to see that many advanced metric guys are putting less and less value in it at evaluating players individual effectiveness.

The smaller the sample size, the less value a stat like +/- or PER have... These are used to track overall trends, not evaluate how good players perform on a game-to-game basis.

sike · 12-04-2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The smaller the sample size, the less value a stat like +/- or PER have... These are used to track overall trends, not evaluate how good players perform on a game-to-game basis.

Yup.

EricaLubarsky · 12-04-2013, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

The smaller the sample size, the less value a stat like +/- or PER have... These are used to track overall trends, not evaluate how good players perform on a game-to-game basis.

Indeed. Plus, the season is still a relatively small sample size, but Ellis has been our second best +/- guy this year, behind Dirk. The stats support it and visual inspection supports it.

GhostOfAdamMorrison · 12-04-2013, 02:44 AM

Obviously single game +/- has to be contextualized (though it's more telling when you play heavy minutes). But the fact is, Ellis was bad tonight save for a couple big shots late. His efficiency got propped up a little on 4 meaningless FTs, but overall, he was inefficient and really lousy on D. He's still the Mavs 2nd best player...I'm just befuddled as to why people seem to go apeshit if anyone ever calls him out and he seems to get a free pass whenever he plays poorly...

Dirk's Knee · 12-04-2013, 09:52 AM

WTF? Ellis late game play was a key factor in the win...

Anyway, and ugly game with the exception of Dirk's second half and the Mavs effort in the 4th (that late 4th offensive rebound by Blair jumping halfway across the court was huge). Glad to have the win, let's do it again tonight.

tsar · 12-04-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

WTF? Ellis late game play was a key factor in the win...

Anyway, and ugly game with the exception of Dirk's second half and the Mavs effort in the 4th (that late 4th offensive rebound by Blair jumping halfway across the court was huge). Glad to have the win, let's do it again tonight.

Ellis has had the right attitude this whole season. I've been reading the quote boards and he says nothing but the right stuff. I think his head is really into it and he seems committed on the defensive end as well. This was quote from last nights game:

"On his baseline jumper that Carlisle called the biggest shot of the game

I don't know if it was big, but it was a shot that was needed, then we came back down on the defensive end and got two or three consecutive stops. Came back out and, like I said, we made shots."

Kante · 12-04-2013, 12:03 PM

Dirk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6no4qUm3i50