State of a mavs fan - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 02-25-2009, 11:27 AM

Someone at dm.com posted a three part question that I thought I would post and respond to here. I especially thought part B was interesting. I didn't respond to the nellie-ball stuff...that kinda stuff drives me nuts...he'd gone get over it...but the dirk comments I took.

First the questions

Quote:

BAdams wrote:3 parter since it's all about championships
A) does anyone think that the mavs can win a Championship with this squad?
B) Has anyone else started skipping large chunks of the games because they are so BORING?
C) If we are going to lose like this, and not win a championship... give my the exciting days of Nellie Ball. I used to love watching the games. I still watch them all but man has the toy lost it's luster or what? I just don't understand the lack of spirit from this team, is Dirk mailing it in? Just sayin

My response on this one.

Let's see...I've just been asked to re-up my season tickets...I think this is a good time to answer these questions.

a. No...I'm really starting to check out on this team. They are not as good as the spurs without manu/duncan and not as good as houston without their starting point and tmac. I know they aren't as good as the lakers, denver, portland...NO's/Phoenix I'm not sure about.
b. Yes..unless I"m watching live. If I'm watching tape-delayed...I can almost tell by body language what is going to happen. This team has little intestinal fortitude and they are woefully lacking a third scorer in the fourth. Carlisle for some reason didn't post up dirk last night even when there was no shot-blocker???????? I don't know if that was Carlisle or jkiddo..but it was stupid. Tremendously stupid.
c. No...but dirk is starting to get frustrated with how much attention he can get and his team being taken out of the game. There seems to be no answer from the coaching staff for it. He never quits imo, but he does get frustrated with stuff and let's it effect him.

So this team is feeling quite a bit like the antawan/antoine team. A team with no chance in the playoffs and me hoping for a quick exit so I don't have to purchase more playoff tickets.

ghazi · 02-25-2009, 11:31 AM

A) No. It's bothersome to think about, it should be considered an over achievement if the Mavs win 1 playoff series. "Always next year".
B) Never boring watching the Mavs for me. Frustrating at times, but never boring

. I've only stopped watching on the tail end of a few of the blowouts
C) I dunno

TheMaverick · 02-25-2009, 11:33 AM

a. no
b. I watch every minute, even 30 point blow out losses.
c. hell no

LonghornDub · 02-25-2009, 11:42 AM

1) Probably not, but that's the fun in sports
2) I don't miss parts of games because they're boring, ever. I only miss parts (or all) of games if I have something else more important that I have to do
3) I don't want Nellie Ball back, and I don't think Dirk is mailing it in. He's just having a tough time right now. In a week or two we'll all be wondering what the hell we were thinking when we asked if he'd given up.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2009, 11:45 AM

A. No chance.

B. This is a good question because the games have been boring, even with wins. I've missed parts of games but still try to catch at least part of every one. The product just isn't there this year though IMO. The team is inconsistent, lacks identity and is very unfocused. I know defense wins championships, but the team isn't really winning with just trying to play it. The offense looks worse to me. The team NEEDS to start playing to its strengths, regardless of defense or offense. Just get into a rhythm of some sort. If at the end of the day the team finds it has to run-and-gun, then do it. Find the niche!

C. No, I don't think Dirk would every purposely mail it in. IMO he is tired from playing in the olympics, and it's starting to show physically. His activeness in games is starting to decrease. No matter how much your head wants it, if the body can't keep up, games like the Spurs ones happen.

Underdog · 02-25-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

1) Probably not, but that's the fun in sports
2) I don't miss parts of games because they're boring, ever. I only miss parts (or all) of games if I have something else more important that I have to do
3) I don't want Nellie Ball back, and I don't think Dirk is mailing it in. He's just having a tough time right now. In a week or two we'll all be wondering what the hell we were thinking when we asked if he'd given up.

I couldn't have said it better than this...

As soon as I stop having fun watching the Mavs I'll stop watching the Mavs (because what's the use of investing energy into something that doesn't bring you pleasure?)

MX425 · 02-25-2009, 11:49 AM

A) No, I used to think if we strt clicking and a few lucky bounce or an injury here or there for another contender and we could be in the mix but no, not this year
B) I will confess, with 1:30 left in the game last night I had to shut her down before I broke something in my house
C) forget Nellie ball, I want the 05-06 or 06-07 mavs back who played with some energy, passion, and swagger.

alby · 02-25-2009, 11:51 AM

To be honest with you, I still had a lot of hope heading into last night's game against the San Antonio Spurs... I had full confidence that if we had been able to play well enough to finish the season with the 5th or 6th seed, I saw us pulling out with an upset in the first round. However, after putting up a measly 76 points against a Spurs team without Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, I think that last optimistic ounce in me realized that there is something very wrong with this team. At first, I thought to myself, "its just not their night." And after awhile, it got to, "its just not their year." I went even further after that, but let's not talk about that. Who knows, there are still twenty something games left, and we'll have Jason Terry back soon so maybe we can get on a run that will propel us into the playoffs with some major momentum (similar to the Warriors). But the truth of the matter is, it wouldn't be surprising to me if the Mavericks just continued on their current path of inconsistent play. I do know one thing--it hurts. It f'ing hurts.

dude1394 · 02-25-2009, 11:57 AM

Nice post alby...it does...and it infuriates me to see this team so lacking in either consistency or want to. I've never thought we should blow it up very much...but waiting another season on 2010 really torques me off. If we were stockpiling young talent to get to that eventuality...fine...but we've done what seems like the opposite the last 3 years.

I will give the team credit for bringing in singleton, wright, ggreen, bass as youngsters...they just aren't very good. Sorta decent but they'll never make push for a starting job....wright has it out of attrition.

SMC0007 · 02-25-2009, 12:08 PM

A) Of course not, only a homer with their glass half full would think that, but deep down inside they should know better.

B) I can not skip large chunks of the game, maybe if were getting blown out I will turn it off with some wierd hope that I was maybe jinxing the team and we make a comeback and I can see it on sport center or hear it on the radio

. Sometimes I fast forward a few posessions to see if I can change momentum, (doesn't seem to work by the way

) I love the MAVS regardless of who is playing for us. I can't and don't ever see myself not having fun or looking forward all day to their games. I have been this way for a looong time.

C) F Nellie ball, whats the excitement in knowing that style is a dead end in the playoffs no matter how many games you win in the regular season. It's like good sex but you can never "finish". You can't win in the post season without a post player or post play... easy buckets.
Dirk isn't mailing it in imo, he just isn't mixing it up and he is too much of an outside player. He's playing more and more soft but I don't think he's mailing it in. The spirit of this team is Dirk and imo were only going as far as he takes us.

FreshJive · 02-25-2009, 12:15 PM

1. No. I would have never been on board with the J Kidd trade if I had known we were going to do nothing else. I always figured we would at least trade his expiring contract.
2. If I watch a game I usually watch it all and I never quit for boredom. However since the trade deadline I've only watched the SA game.
3. Nellie, Nash, and Fin is the best we ever had it here.

SMC0007 · 02-25-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

1. No. I would have never been on board with the J Kidd trade if I had known we were going to do nothing else. I always figured we would at least trade his expiring contract.
2. If I watch a game I usually watch it all and I never quit for boredom. However since the trade deadline I've only watched the SA game.
3. Nellie, Nash, and Fin is the best we ever had it here.

WHAT? Surely I miss the sarcasm.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2009, 01:26 PM

can I add a question?

D) Should it be a given that Josh should be traded if he keeps sucking and chokes down the stretch and/or in the playoffs again? I simply can't have hope for this guy anymore as it is but another choke and how does one defend keeping him?

TripleDipping · 02-25-2009, 01:27 PM

A) does anyone think that the mavs can win a Championship with this squad?

No. The whole "give Kidd time to mesh" thing is over, the role players are unreliable, and I'm seriously doubting the front office as well.

I don't think anyone would be naive enough to think that this team can win a championship. Perhaps the better question to ask is, "Do you have faith in the current front office of putting a winning team together?" I guess you can put ownership in there as well since Mark Cuban probably makes part of the personnel decisions.

B) Has anyone else started skipping large chunks of the games because they are so BORING?

I find myself skipping chunks of games not because they are boring, but because I don't need the aggravation of watching a bunch of wussies throwing away double digit leads and not showing any fight in them. I invest enough emotions at my job everyday, and I don't need somemore from a freakin' bball team.

C) If we are going to lose like this, and not win a championship... give my the exciting days of Nellie Ball. I used to love watching the games. I still watch them all but man has the toy lost it's luster or what? I just don't understand the lack of spirit from this team, is Dirk mailing it in? Just sayin

Nellie ball is exciting and entertaining, but it is also toxic in terms of giving you false hopes. Been there, done that. So my answer is no.

I do think Dirk is losing motivation. At this point I don't object to trading Dirk for a better future than now. Yesterday's game is the last straw for me. I have no hope for this team to achieve much but first round playoff exit. I hope they will miss the playoffs and become a lottery team. Maybe then someone will finally start paying attention and making drastic changes.

ghazi · 02-25-2009, 02:30 PM

I'm more sad than mad. Some are mad at our players, and our front office, but I ain't. This is the nature of the NBA, from 01-02 to 06-07 were 57+ wins. That type of success is hard to sustain. 8 * 50 is an impressive feat. No different than aroller coaster, a business, an economy, NBA teams rise, peak, and then fall.

The players, can we really be mad at them? We need more out of Dirk, but we can't expect more out of Dirk. We needed Kidd to be a star, but he hovers in between role player/star. JET, Singleton, Bass, Dampier, Barea, they're giving us about what we can expect, if not more. It just isn't good enough. J-Ho is the big disappointment though, he has never been known for bball IQ but he WAS a star (not superstar) a few years ago. Now he's just... very inefficient, not very good, doesn't play defense consistently, doesn't draw charges like he used to, forgot how to shoot 3's.

The front office, yeah it's screwed up a few times, but it's not as if they're trying. The Kidd trade was a roll of the dice. It didn't work out, but they did try. Miscalculation, but one cannot be upset about that. Besides, I felt the Mavs window was closing/closed anyway.

It's just the way it is, and the Mavs are no different, but it's still saddening. Especially since our boys nearly tasted the title in 2006, and then fluke shots and horrendous officiating denied us the title. If Manu doesn't foul Dirk and we lose in the SemiFinals, perhaps we don't feel as bad today because of what happened then. But Manu did foul, the Mavs did go to the Finals, then a 2-0 lead became a 4-2 defeat due to fluke shots and refs, only to bounce back to win 67 games and have hearts broken in the 1st round. It all hurts!

But alas, I shall follow our beloved Mavs to the gates of hell.

Usually Lurkin · 02-25-2009, 02:39 PM

A. chances are slim to none. If they all played top of their form, only if a few other teams don't play top of their form.
B. Yes, but not because of BORING, but because of FRUSTRATING
C. It's not the lack of run and gun, it's the lack of passion. With Terry on the bench, Dampier has looked like the most passioned starter. Josh Howard had some passion for a couple weeks once. Once. Dirk is absolutely mailing it in. Kidd looks like he's more concerned with protecting his FG% than his team record. Carlisle? He's a dead fish in comparison to our last 2 head coaches.

For the first time in 20 years, I'm having a hard time mustering hope. Yeah. those 20 years include all of the 90s

But trade everyone and anyone to put Dirk with a scoring big man before trading Dirk for some magic beans.

alexamenos · 02-25-2009, 02:51 PM

A) does anyone think that the mavs can win a Championship with this squad?

No. If things go very, very well I think they can get out of the first round, but that's the overly optimistic mavs homer in me.

B) Has anyone else started skipping large chunks of the games because they are so BORING?

Yes. I tune in every game with the hopes that I'm going to see some good basketball, and in short order I'm watching a game played by a bunch of guys that look like they're phoning it in. Maybe they're trying hard but look like they're phoning it in because they're just not that good, but regardless I'm so underwhelmed by the quality of basketball that I can't stay interested.

C) If we are going to lose like this, and not win a championship... give my the exciting days of Nellie Ball. I used to love watching the games. I still watch them all but man has the toy lost it's luster or what?

The toy has definitely lost it's luster. This is not only the worst team the mavs have put on the floor this decade, but it's also the oldest and the one with the least room to maneuver.

Tokey41 · 02-25-2009, 03:10 PM

A) No.

B) No, I watch when I can since I don't get to see all the games.

C) Just because Nellie ball hasn't worked doesn't mean it couldn't work. However, it definitely wouldn't work for this team.

jthig32 · 02-25-2009, 03:14 PM

No I don't think they can win a championship.

No, I do not skip parts of games due to them being boring. Certainly there is less buzz and personal excitement from game to game than there was during, say, '06-'07, but I'm still ready to watch games that I'm available to watch.

No I do not want to go back to Nellieball.

As a follow up: I think a year like this year exposes and separates the people that enjoy Mavs basketball, and the people that enjoy *winning* Mavs basketball.

Nothing wrong with that, not everyone is a die hard. But if you find this season boring you certainly didn't do much Mavs watching during the mid 90's.

alby · 02-25-2009, 03:28 PM

I do commend those who have stuck it out through good times and bad times. I will guarantee one thing baby. I have full faith that will be the ones standing at the top of the NBA mountain one day. Just you wait and see. Go Mavericks

Dtownsfinest · 02-25-2009, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

WHAT? Surely I miss the sarcasm.

Maybe it was because there was no expectations for this team but the best times i've had as a Mavs fan were the days of Fin, Nash and Dirk. When Calvin Booth hit that layup that lead us to beating that Jazz team it was one of my favorite moments in sports. It was just unreal how it felt. I haven't felt like that in awhile. Even the championship year.

twistaeffect2004 · 02-25-2009, 03:36 PM

A.) No. Right now they're a fringe team to even make it into the postseason. I think at best this team is a second round out.

B.) Nope, I still love watching this team although it makes me mental most of the time. I might turn the channel though if the team is being embarrassed, ala last night.

C.) No. I never was a fan of Nellie ball. And while I don't think Dirk has given up, I do think he's lost some confidence. Maybe not even in himself, but certainly the team. I think he understands this team will not be a title contender for a little while, and he's 30 years old. He has to be questioning whether he believes a championship can be won here. He's going to be at a crossroads in his career pretty soon. And that upsets me more than anything else. It was hard seeing Finley win a championship outside of Dallas. It would be heartwrenching seeing Dirk do the same. Although I'd be happy for him, it'd be like Bird winning a championship with the Hawks or something like that. He deserves to win a ring and end his career in Big D. I don't think it's happening though. At least it doesn't look that way as this team's presently constructed.

alexamenos · 02-25-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

I think a year like this year exposes and separates the people that enjoy Mavs basketball, and the people that enjoy *winning* Mavs basketball.

Nothing wrong with that, not everyone is a die hard. But if you find this season boring you certainly didn't do much Mavs watching during the mid 90's.

I don't think it's fair to compare this incarnation of the mavs to the mid 90's...that era had hopes higher than expectations. Jim Jackson, Jamaal Mashburn, Jason Kidd under the age of 40....they didn't win many games but there was definitely a buzz. Indeed, the mid-90's team were an overwhelmingly welcome reprieve from what had preceeded in earlier years.

This incarnation of the mavs is far more comparable to the mavs of the very late 80's. There were some familiar faces from earlier years but those teams were shells of their former selves. Blackmon and Harper were still on the team, but they weren't going anywhere but down hill....

....and what a long, ugly downhill slide it was.

Did anybody really enjoy a team that featured a 31 year old Derek Harper playing along side Tim Legler and Randy White and Doug Smith and Mike Iuzzlionia (you know who) while Jim Jackson was holding out? Bad basketball is bad basketball, regardless of the color of jersey's.

Point being...the difficult thing about watching this team is not just the futility of this season but the looming darkness over the horizon. It doesn't simply bore me to watch this team -- it pains me to watch this team.

So....it's one thing to say that this season separates those who love the mavs from those who love winning mavs basketball, but it may also separate those who have vivid recollections of the late 80's descent from those who don't.

fluid.forty.one · 02-25-2009, 03:51 PM

Till death do us part.

SMC0007 · 02-25-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Maybe it was because there was no expectations for this team but the best times i've had as a Mavs fan were the days of Fin, Nash and Dirk. When Calvin Booth hit that layup that lead us to beating that Jazz team it was one of my favorite moments in sports. It was just unreal how it felt. I haven't felt like that in awhile. Even the championship year.

To me it doesn't beat : Dirk taking it STRONG to the hole for the AND 1 to push OT and then us beating the SPURTS in 7 to eventually go to the Finals!

TheMaverick · 02-25-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

To be honest with you, I still had a lot of hope heading into last night's game against the San Antonio Spurs... I had full confidence that if we had been able to play well enough to finish the season with the 5th or 6th seed, I saw us pulling out with an upset in the first round. However, after putting up a measly 76 points against a Spurs team without Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, I think that last optimistic ounce in me realized that there is something very wrong with this team. At first, I thought to myself, "its just not their night." And after awhile, it got to, "its just not their year." I went even further after that, but let's not talk about that. Who knows, there are still twenty something games left, and we'll have Jason Terry back soon so maybe we can get on a run that will propel us into the playoffs with some major momentum (similar to the Warriors). But the truth of the matter is, it wouldn't be suprising to me if the Mavericks just continued on their current path of inconsistent play. I do know one thing--it hurts. It f'ing hurts.

great post alby. I definitely know where you're coming from. All we can do is hope for the best.

Windmill360 · 02-25-2009, 04:27 PM

1)No (Said it at the start of the summer)
2)No
3)No

purplefrog · 02-25-2009, 05:42 PM

1) Not without a considerable amount of luck.

2) I am frustrated not bored. Most of my frustration lies with Dirk not having the supporting cast he deserves.

3) I really don't think Dirk would ever consciously mail it in. But I do believe that it's easier to get pumped up and sustain the edge when there's hope for a championship.

4) I think Josh should be traded asap. The change of scenery would be good for him and the Mavs.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-25-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplefrog

1) Not without a considerable amount of luck.

2) I am frustrated not bored. Most of my frustration lies with Dirk not having the supporting cast he deserves.

3) I really don't think Dirk would ever consciously mail it in. But I do believe that it's easier to get pumped up and sustain the edge when there's hope for a championship.

4) I think Josh should be traded asap. The change of scenery would be good for him and the Mavs.

Thanks for answering my question

.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-25-2009, 08:17 PM

a: Not a chance in hell.

b: I'm gonna be honest here, and I know people will hate me for this, but I don't just skip stretches of games anymore, I skip whole games altogether. I've never thought of myself as a fair weather fan, but I just feel really disheartened by the way the organization squandered its chances to win a championship. I watch this team now and it just pisses me off. And yeah, it's also boring as hell.

c: No nellie ball. Just start completely over. Trade Dirk for whatever you can get for him and let Kidd walk. Just try to clear cap space and try to pick up draft picks whever you can. It's time to start from square one.

birdsanctuary · 02-26-2009, 12:14 AM

The Mavs need a 2 guard who can score a shit load of points. Pardon my french. I think Gerald Green can develop into this player. But this is why I'm not the coach and Cuban never sends me an email asking my opinion. Frankly this team stinks, but its nothing new for us. Maybe someday we can actually begin to think we have a snowballs chance in hell at beating an elite team, or even just competing with one. It's amazing how stacked, no pun intended, the mavs are at the 4 spot. Mavs should have made a trade, simple as that. Singleton looks great fantastic +- numbers. Bass, Stack and Howard should have been gone. I can't believe that trio couldn't have netted Salmons or Rip Hamilton.

Woe is a mavs fan, woe is me...

mac222b · 02-26-2009, 02:39 AM

NOT trading Kidd for Baron Davis and Kaman (whilst retaining Stack, our 1st rounder, J-ho, Damp's contract and our exceptions)?! if this was in fact an option, it would've had me excited about our prospects for the next few years. I think the FO HAS to hit a home-run this summer. Salmons and Zaza Pachulia types for instance, good players both, ain't gonna cut it. We need some difference makers to make up for the shortcomings of our core. Kidd, Terry, Dirk, Damp, J-ho all have holes in their games. We need someone who can command a double team and we need some balls. I'll still watch every game i possibly can and hold out hope. But too many seasons like this are a drag on the fans AND the players. I hope we all arrive at the next championship push with some energy remaining. And it better be coming sooner rather than later.

left texas · 02-26-2009, 06:22 AM

A) No way on earth will they will a championship this year.

B) Yes, I usually catch the beginnings of games, but I get so frustrated watching this team, I go on to something else. I did not purchase NBA leauge pass this year. I thought if the Mavs surprise me, I will pick it up the second half of the season. Of course I did not exercise my option on that.

C) No. What I miss is watching a team take the floor, who actually thought they were going to win, no matter who they were facing. I don't care what kind of stlye they play, just as long as they go out give it their all every game. I am just not seeing that now, and that is a lot more frustrating than their won loss record.

dude1394 · 02-26-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

NOT trading Kidd for Baron Davis and Kaman (whilst retaining Stack, our 1st rounder, J-ho, Damp's contract and our exceptions)?! if this was in fact an option, it would've had me excited about our prospects for the next few years.

I still do not understand the thinking that this wouldn't have made us a much,much better basketball team and a very different one. Our offensive talent would have been 5-wide instead of 2-wide (three counting jet). It seemed like the perfect way to leverage the jkiddo trade (devin harris for davis/kaman)...that I'm still shocked that it wasn't taken.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-26-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I still do not understand the thinking that this wouldn't have made us a much,much better basketball team and a very different one. Our offensive talent would have been 5-wide instead of 2-wide (three counting jet). It seemed like the perfect way to leverage the jkiddo trade (devin harris for davis/kaman)...that I'm still shocked that it wasn't taken.

If the Mavs really had the option to do that and chose not to do it, then Cuban and Donnie both should be shot.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-26-2009, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I still do not understand the thinking that this wouldn't have made us a much,much better basketball team and a very different one. Our offensive talent would have been 5-wide instead of 2-wide (three counting jet). It seemed like the perfect way to leverage the jkiddo trade (devin harris for davis/kaman)...that I'm still shocked that it wasn't taken.

I wonder if this could be re-visited in a slightly different form this summer...

fluid.forty.one · 02-26-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

If the Mavs really had the option to do that and chose not to do it, then Cuban and Donnie both should be shot.

I believe that there were a ton of sources, possibly even Cuban, saying that this trade was offered and we declined.

Dtownsfinest · 02-26-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I still do not understand the thinking that this wouldn't have made us a much,much better basketball team and a very different one. Our offensive talent would have been 5-wide instead of 2-wide (three counting jet). It seemed like the perfect way to leverage the jkiddo trade (devin harris for davis/kaman)...that I'm still shocked that it wasn't taken.

And I wonder if the decision not to pull the trigger was that the Mavs maybe wanted the Clippers to release Kidd after acquiring him? IF that would've occured how could the Mavs not have done it?

ghazi · 02-26-2009, 02:26 PM

Davis/Kaman aren't as good as their names sound.

Fat contracts, injury prone players. Davis doesn't care about basketball and lacks motivation. It's just speculation that he would be motivated if he came here. He already has a big contract.

TheMaverick · 02-26-2009, 02:30 PM

^ thank you.

Davis/Kaman would be the definition of mailing it in... not just the year, but for years to come.