Fin is our MVP - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 06:50 PM

it's fine if you think fin is the mvp..that's fine.

however, when you choose to use the Sacramento series to back up anything you have to say, it makes you look very stupid. Fin was as horrific as anyone during clutch time.

Now, notice, i'm not saying that you are STUPID. I'm saying that if anyone chooses to use the Sacramento series to justify saying that Fin is the Mav's MVP looks very STUPID using that to back up their argument.

Just wanted to make sure that it was clear to everyone.

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 06:52 PM

well all the bs beating around the bush like you are doing is not working for you. quit sugar coating thngs, and open your eyes, just once

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 06:57 PM

It's amazing the mod's don't come in and invoke the "intelligence" portion of the FAQ. If so, you would be on permanent suspension.

Although i really don't think you're an idiot.. more thatn you're trying to start shit as usual

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 07:01 PM

dont get mad at me, cause im 1 of the few on here that will challenge what you have to say. i got an pm from someone saying you think you know everything, and you proved to me already that you dont know much. i have no need to start shit, if by me proving you wrong is trying to start shit, then i apologize. maybe if you get off of your high horse and realize you are no better than everyone else you would see that.

you make me laugh, i would be on permanent suspension, and exactly what would it be for you?

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:06 PM

Challenge me?

could you please give me one example of how you've proved me wrong?

by doing so, you must come up with some examples from the Sacramento series that would show that Fin is the MVP of this team.. that fin was a big-time performer in the clutch against sacramento.. because that is what your argument has been

please, fill me in on this?

None of the big three played well during the clutch. Dirk and nash were at least dominant during the clutch in one game..
was fin?

amazing..none of the three were big time players in the series.. it was a shitty series all around for the big three..they made countless bad decisions and poor plays..

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 07:14 PM

murphy, now it is fins fault cause he didnt perform in the clutch as you say? well find idnt miss a layup that cost us the game, and the series. fin didnt play bad in every game like a certain someone did. dont put nash and dirk in the same sentence. nash did perform in the clutch in game 2, but he is about it. nash dominated, but i wouldnt exactly say dirk dominated. dirk played bad, all 5 games man. quit trying to sugar coat it, and realize it. its over, get ready for the games. fin is the mvp, and the leader of this team.

by the way, yes i said challenge you. some people on here will not challenge what you say for some odd reason, but i promise you i am not 1 of them.

end of discussion

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:18 PM

dirk missed the layup in ot
fin gave away the obvious pass to the double teamed dirk for the steal that lead to ot

who choked more?

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:21 PM

let's see.. 8 points and 9 rebounds in the final quarter of the only game the mavs won..
well, yeah, that's performing bad in the clutch.

and dirk was almost singlehandedly responsible for bringing the mavs back in game five before nash and fin made poor decision after poor decision in 4-5 possessions in a row after dirk cut the lead to 1.

however, I can say that but I also know that Dirk peformed poorly at times during the clutch. I know that. I will admit that. However, you, for some reason will not admit that Fin sucked during crunch time as well.

Why not? because you're trying to start shit.

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:24 PM

<< dirk played bad, all 5 games man. >>

just like in game 5 ...

mavs4fin ... realize it: it´s over. don´t keep denying it: fin wasn´t able to carry the team, he was too weak to beat sacto. fin failed in all 5 games, he scored 37 and mavs lost, why didnt he score enough for the mavs to win? even without stojakovic and christie he wasn´t able to hit enough shots for the mavs to win. where was he when the mavs led in game 3? where was he when the mavs came as close as 1 in game 5? hit just tried to get a high percentage of hits, he wasn´t looking for the points the mavs NEEDED to win badly. why did he get so few assists during the series? he was trying to avoid TO`s just to get better numbers.

sorry for all this bullshit, no word is true ... thought it was time to attack Mavs4Fin by his own weapons

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 07:25 PM

nash is the pg of this team, so if bad decisions are mad u can look at him. if dirk is hot, it is his job to get the ball to him. dont try and pin nashs poor play on fin murphy, thats ridiculous. murphy, when did i say that dirk performed bad in the clutch in game 2? please, tell me when i said that. i said nash dominated, and i said i wouldnt call dirks performance dominating.

sj, they didnt exactly lose the game for us. missing a layup did however. once it gets to OT, its another ball game.

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:27 PM

fin made his own decisions.. the PG cannot make decisions for everyone on the court and you know that.. another example of you trying to start crap

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:29 PM

<< murphy, when did i say that dirk performed bad in the clutch in game 2? please, tell me when i said that >>

<< dirk played bad, all 5 games man. quit trying to sugar coat it, and realize it >>

i think it's pretty self explanatory.
you should leave before you contradict yourself some more

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 07:30 PM

oh im trying to start crap by saying that its a pg job to get the ball in the players hand who is hot? oh ok, you amaze me murphy. its nashs job to get the ball in dirks hard if he is hot, which he was. fin cannot tell nash was to do with the ball, because thats who had the ball. dirk was hot, nash had the ball. put it in dirks hand, if he dont that is not fins fault murphy. you know that, just another example of you trying to start crap here.

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:30 PM

m4fin: no, missing a layup didnt lose the game for us ... you remember, you can´t lose anything if you´re already down ... take a look at baseball - who gets the loss? the pitcher who gives away the hits or the one who finishes the game? dirk didnt TIE it, partly because he was hacked after he got his OWN REBOUND ... so actually he was the one, maybe the only one this game?, who really did everything to finish off the kings ... other than fin of course, who just threw it away to stojakovic, or nash ...

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:31 PM

<< murphy, when did i say that dirk performed bad in the clutch in game 2? please, tell me when i said that >>

<< dirk played bad, all 5 games man. quit trying to sugar coat it, and realize it >>

i think it's pretty self explanatory.
you should leave before you contradict yourself some more

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:31 PM

mav4fin - how could dirk be hot if your statement was true:

dirk played bad, all 5 games man.

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 07:32 PM

it is more than just the point guard's duty to get the ball to the hot player.. especially when the two guard takes the ball up court and makes the decision on his own.

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 07:37 PM

are you kidding? nash brought the ball up. i remember it, like it was yesterday. he cannot make nash pass the ball to the hot hand. so now its fins fault, is it fins fault that dirk missed the layup. is it fins fault that dirk played bad every game. is it fins fault that the mavs lost? it sure wasnt fins fault when dirk was named an allstar was it, or his fault when dirk was named 2nd team all nba huh? you people amaze me.

sj, this is basketball not baseball.

murphy sure he had stretches of good in the game, but overall all 5 games was bad. the defense, the shots.

MFFL · 05-16-2002, 07:38 PM

If everyone will quit talking to him, he'll go away.

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:42 PM

ahhh ... so the game with the pitchers is called football over there? sweet ... we call it baseball ... by the way - it´s the same in hockey, strange, isnt it?

maybe you forgot, but you could easily blame nellie for the loss aswell - he commited a crucial Technical right at halftime ... without this point we would have won ...

or the refs, for not calling a foul ...

or dirk, for missing a free throw late! HA! Back on track! It was dirk! ... how could i only be so blindfolded ...

of course it was dirk, it´s not that basketball is a team sports (maybe it was that what you wanted to say with "we´re talking about basketball, not football"?)

why didnt fin take the shot?

remember that last shot fin took in this game ...?

seelenjaeger · 05-16-2002, 07:43 PM

mffl - no he won´t. he´s still here. it´s not his first run. he will come back until someone makes him go away forever (and this is NO threat)

Hales233 · 05-16-2002, 08:16 PM

epitome, have a freakin' sense of humor buddy.

dude1394 · 05-16-2002, 08:46 PM

Dirk is far and away the best and brightest player on this team. He is the leading rebounder and the only help he really gets in that department if from Raef. He also is the only player that we put in the box, he is the one that is willing to go into the middle time and again.

Finley is a very, very nice player and so is steve nash. Where are Fins and Nash's double doubles? Although I love both of them, the comparisons just are not close to being fair.

There is a reason that sacremento double and triple teamed dirk. They didn't double and triple team fin or nash. Go look again at game 5 and you will see who is getting hacked going to the basket, fighting for the rebounds.

Dirk is the MAN of the big three. As long as they are the big three they will all be better for it, but dirk is becoming unguardable. When he develops even a single post up shot (jump hook for example) and can pass out of the double team, watch out.

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 08:50 PM

you might want to look at the game again, he was not doubled and triple teamed in the sac series, he just played bad. plain and simple

Drbio · 05-16-2002, 08:55 PM

he refuses to accept and acknowledge fact dude.

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 09:02 PM

my goodness, what in the hell was this guy been watching?

dude1394 · 05-16-2002, 09:14 PM

<< you might want to look at the game again, he was not doubled and triple teamed in the sac series, he just played bad. plain and simple >>

I did and everytime he had the ball on the block when he turned to the lane he was doubled. Period. Many times he was tripled as he went up.

But irregardless in watching the second half of the game 5 Finley was really tentative. He didn't go after rebounds (watched dirk) and wasn't aggressive giving help on the weakside. The only person I saw give less effort (excepting Wang, not sure he knows how) was van excel. At least 3 times he saw drivers coming into the lane and he was not willing to draw the charge, just ole'd 'em through.

Again I like Fin and I like Nash, but the guy who gets the rebounds, scores off a post up and leads the team in FT's and double, doubles and points IS the guy.

There is a reason that ESPN ranked finley 40th and dirk top 10.

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 09:19 PM

ESPN picked the Mavs to wint he series too, and they weren't right about that. This is not a debate about who does this and that. This is a thread stating that Fin the Mavs MVP, it is an opinion shared by more than me. Fin watched Dirk shoot all the shots, yes he did do that I do not debate that. Fin is the guy who comes up big for the Mavs in the clutch, Fin is the guy who is the leader of this team. Fin is the man who can get his own shot. If Dirk could get his own shot, then maybe we wouldn't have all these excuses as to why he missed the layup. Traffic, just rolled off, etc etc.

Murphy3 · 05-16-2002, 09:26 PM

fin didn't come up big for the mavs in the clutch in the sacramento series.
dirk didn't come up big for the mavs in the clutch in the sacramento series.
nash didn't come up big for the mavs in the clutch in the sacramento series
NVE didn't come up big for the mavs in the clutch in the sacramento series.

so i'm not sure what your argument is
well, i know what your opinion is..but i fail to see what you have to back up what you say.
if it is anything based from the sacramento series, you're wrong..

it's fine to think fin is the MVP.. but please do not use anything from the sacramento series
that doesn't hold ANY water

dude1394 · 05-16-2002, 09:31 PM

<< ESPN picked the Mavs to wint he series too, and they weren't right about that. This is not a debate about who does this and that. This is a thread stating that Fin the Mavs MVP, it is an opinion shared by more than me. Fin watched Dirk shoot all the shots, yes he did do that I do not debate that. Fin is the guy who comes up big for the Mavs in the clutch, Fin is the guy who is the leader of this team. Fin is the man who can get his own shot. If Dirk could get his own shot, then maybe we wouldn't have all these excuses as to why he missed the layup. Traffic, just rolled off, etc etc. >>

Ok... you have your opinion, I have mine and ESPN has theirs.

Mavs4Fin · 05-16-2002, 09:33 PM

exactly

seelenjaeger · 05-17-2002, 01:36 AM

you forgot about me! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Actually I think it would be better if Dirk had been our MVP ... MVP has something to do with reaching expectations ... maybe those Fin-supporters were satisfied with his game, they have the right to be so ... but clearly all Dirk supporters weren´t, and maybe that´s our hope to win a series vs. sacto anytime soon

Mavs4Fin · 05-17-2002, 01:54 AM

of course you wasnt happy with a choke job, who would be?

dude1394 · 05-17-2002, 07:04 AM

<< of course you wasnt happy with a choke job, who would be? >>

No I wasn't happy with the choke job that finley laid down in game 5. Nor the choke job he laid down in game 4 when bibby blows right by him, he has a foul to give and doesn't know it.

dude1394 · 05-17-2002, 07:21 AM

<< ESPN picked the Mavs to wint he series too, and they weren't right about that. >>

M4F

Seems that RealGM pretty much agrees with ESPN (and myself)..

Finley - NBA Ranking - 91, Salary Ranking - 32 (32 NBA players get paid more)
Nash - NBA Ranking - 74, Salary Ranking - 71
Dirk - NBA Ranking - 32, Salary Ranking - 214

let's see how they feel about some other folks you like/dislike.

LaFrenz - NBA Ranking - 126, Salary Ranking - 131
Kandi - NBA Ranking - 186, Salary Ranking - 97...
Buckner - NBA Ranking - 354, Salary Ranking - 271
Griffin - NBA Ranking - 290, Salary Ranking - 351

Hmmm... seems like most of the folks you like (Fin, Kandi, Buckner) are not valued quite as highly as you do and they are overpaid.

TheKid · 05-17-2002, 10:55 AM

<<Finley is a very, very nice player and so is steve nash. Where are Fins and Nash's double doubles? Although I love both of them, the comparisons just are not close to being fair.>>

I could have left this thread alone until I saw this. Fin got his double double when he was struggling from the field in game two where he was second on the team in rebounding and had the most offensive rebounds... Don't slight him, you don't have to think he should be the MVP or even think he's not good, but when he does something, give him his respect. One of three players that game to get a double double.

dude1394 · 05-17-2002, 11:02 AM

<< <<Finley is a very, very nice player and so is steve nash. Where are Fins and Nash's double doubles? Although I love both of them, the comparisons just are not close to being fair.>>

I could have left this thread alone until I saw this. Fin got his double double when he was struggling from the field in game two where he was second on the team in rebounding and had the most offensive rebounds... Don't slight him, you don't have to think he should be the MVP or even think he's not good, but when he does something, give him his respect. One of three players that game to get a double double. >>

I had a couple of train of thoughts going here.

1. The sacramento series. Where I saw the noted lapses, mostly defense and rebounding. Fin usually has a good offensive game.
2. Over the season. that was where my question about double, doubles comes from. It seems difficult for me to say that the player that gets the most double doubles on the team (by a large margin) is not the MVP. That player is just doing the bulk of the work. Dirk not only lead in scoring and rebounding, but his FT's are so far above the rest of the team that it is obvious he was the most consistent at going to the hole. Another plus in my mind.

I don't really think I am slighting him either. It is like comparing Dirk to Duncan. Duncan is such a complete player that it is obvious (to me) that he is a vastly superior player. That is how my comparison between Dirk and Fin lines up..

SeomanSnowlock · 05-17-2002, 11:06 AM

Dirk isn't as complete as Duncan yet. He is a better player than Mike Finley, but this is not a slight of Mike Finley.

TheKid · 05-17-2002, 11:19 AM

If I'm not mistaken, I thought the post was starting out as Fin for MVP of this series. This is the ONE thing I'm laughing that you all are arguing that Dirk should be the MVP of this series? He was NOT the best player on the Mavs THIS SERIES.. Now as I said before, does that mean if I'm starting a team tomorrow I won't pick Dirk first out of all the players who played in this series NO! I'd take him before, Fin, Bibby, Jackson, Divac and Webber. HOWEVER he wasn't the best one on the court this series.

For those of you who keep trying to defer and say Fin was just as bad, well you're wrong. Granted, I thought Fin had some lapses, took some bad shots and made some poor decisions, BUT he was the best Mav. He gave the mavs a chance in just about every game with the exception of one. He couldn't do it by himself, but he did give the Mavs a chance though.

dude1394 · 05-17-2002, 12:16 PM

I just looked at the playoff statistics...

Nowitzki lead the team in
Scoring, Rebounding, FTA, Double-doubles, Steals.

Fin/Dirk tied for Assists/game at 2.3
Dirk slightly led in blocks/game.

I just don't how there can be much discussion. I like Fin's game, I would love it if he would elevate it by either rebounding, defending or certainly dribbling more.