GDT Game 41 - Mavs (13-27) vs Knicks (18-21) 6:00 FSSW

[MavzMan]

No offense, but you really sound like typical media spin control right now. Extending your logic, no I do not want Lebron or Kawaii or Kevin Durant because I already have Porzingus. That is completely fail logic in this time where teams not only have multiple stars, but the defending champions GSW have 4 legit super stars. There is absolutely no way Porzingus and role players can compete with GSW. It's not a knock against Ntilikina to say he was better at defense than offense, but at the end of the day it's the players that have great offense and really good defense that are winning championships. I believe what most everyone in this forum is seeing is that Jr is much closer to that than Frank.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

And DSJ being a better Darren Collison? Not seeing that at all. Collison couldn't run an offense to save his life.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

No offense, but you really sound like typical media spin control right now. Extending your logic, no I do not want Lebron or Kawaii or Kevin Durant because I already have Porzingus. That is completely fail logic in this time where teams not only have multiple stars, but the defending champions GSW have 4 legit super stars. There is absolutely no way Porzingus and role players can compete with GSW. It's not a knock against Ntilikina to say he was better at defense than offense, but at the end of the day it's the players that have great offense and really good defense that are winning championships. I believe what most everyone in this forum is seeing is that Jr is much closer to that than Frank.

The spin and logic fail may lie more in comparing Smith to Durant, James or Leonard. At any point in their careers.

And the straw man is in suggesting that the current bunch of ragtag Knicks are competing with GSW (or anybody) for a championship. Knicks are building, apparently on the ascent, but will struggle to be .500. Porzingis needs support, but build carefully, get complementary players. And he needs a functional Pippen, not an Iverson.

[Underdog]

As if the 19-21 Knicks were one Frank Ntilikina away from being relevant... What the Knicks need right now and what the Mavericks need right now is exactly the same -- the best players available. There are no "needs" other than maximum talent when you're a lottery team. Dennis is the better pick because he has the potential to become an All-Star in this league, Frank does not.

There's a reason why Knicks fans keep shitting on Dennis at every opportunity while Mavs fans only seem to remember that Frank exists whenever we play the Knicks.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

The spin and logic fail may lie more in comparing Smith to Durant, James or Leonard. At any point in their careers.

And the straw man is in suggesting that the current bunch of ragtag Knicks are competing with GSW (or anybody) for a championship. Knicks are building, apparently on the ascent, but will struggle to be .500. Porzingis needs support, but build carefully, get complementary players. And he needs a functional Pippen, not an Iverson.

You do realize that Pippen is one of the best players of all time...right? You aren't the only one that has fallen into the "this player just needs a Pippen" trap, but the logic is very flawed.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Underdog

As if the 19-21 Knicks were one Frank Ntilikina away from being relevant... What the Knicks need right now and what the Mavericks need right now is exactly the same -- the best players available. There are no "needs" other than maximum talent when you're a lottery team. Dennis is the better pick because he has the potential to become an All-Star in this league, Frank does not.

There's a reason why Knicks fans keep shitting on Dennis at every opportunity while Mavs fans only seem to remember that Frank exists whenever we play the Knicks.

I have no idea what your first sentence even means.

But, sorry, man, but no. Best individual players don't necessarily win. Even in today's NBA, it's the best collection of complementary talent. (cf 1976-77 Blazers v. Sixers; 2003-04 Pistons v. Lakers; 2005-06 Heat v. Mavericks; 2010-11 Mavericks v. Heat, to name four across different eras.)

If Knicks hadn't had Porzingis, then Smith maybe. With Porzingis, Smith would've been a liability.

I don't consider that 'shitting on' Smith; rather, it's a win-win. Mavs get what they needed, Knicks got what served their interests best. No way this has to be a zero-sum thing, or 'politically correct nonsense'.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You do realize that Pippen is one of the best players of all time...right? You aren't the only one that has fallen into the "this player just needs a Pippen" trap, but the logic is very flawed.

OBOAT or no, Pippen was never more than Jordan's lieutenant.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

If Knicks hadn't had Porzingis, then Smith maybe. With Porzingis, Smith would've been a liability.

This is just mindless conjecture. There is no way of knowing how Smith and Kristaps would have worked out.

I guess I'm just confused what exactly your point is. Are you saying that Porz and a bunch of nobodies is going to compete for a championship in the near future or that their current construct is that of those championship-caliber teams you mentioned?

No, not in today's super team era it isn't.

[Bryan_Wilson]

DSJ + Unicorn pnr or 2 man game would be impossible to defend. And the spacing those 2 would create for other shooters would be like a pregame shoot-around.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

DSJ + Unicorn pnr or 2 man game would be impossible to defend. And the spacing those 2 would create for other shooters would be like a pregame shoot-around.

You sound like someone who actually watches DSJ... Maybe you need to put a big slice of NY bias in your mouth and try again.

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

OBOAT or no, Pippen was never more than Jordan's lieutenant.

Scottie Pippen finished third in MVP voting while Jordan was playing baseball. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and blocks, and was second in the NBA in steals per game -- he averaged 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the 3-point line... But, yeah, he was never more than Jordan's lieutenant.

Either you claim to watch more Scottie Pippen and Dennis Smith Jr than you really have, or you just don't know what the hell you're looking at when you watch basketball.

[turin]

^ IIRC The Jordanless Bulls were seconds away from an NBA finals appearance. They weren't exactly chopped liver without Jordan.

[Jack.Kerr]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You sound like someone who actually watches DSJ... Maybe you need to put a big slice of NY bias in your mouth and try again.



Scottie Pippen finished third in MVP voting while Jordan was playing baseball. That year, he earned All-Star Game MVP and led the Bulls in scoring, assists, and blocks, and was second in the NBA in steals per game -- he averaged 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game, while shooting 49.1% from the field and a career-best 32% from the 3-point line... But, yeah, he was never more than Jordan's lieutenant.

Either you claim to watch more Scottie Pippen and Dennis Smith Jr than you really have, or you just don't know what the hell you're looking at when you watch basketball.

When they played TOGETHER, which was the point of the matter, Pippen was always Jordan's Pippen.

There's a chance that I've watched the Mavericks for longer than you've been alive, and pretty much Pippen's whole career. Smith? Maybe 20 games now. Not impressed yet. And very comfortable with my understanding of the game.

Nothing personal, man. Nor tribal.

[mac222b]

Always thought Jack Kerr was a pretty knowledgable poster. The Dennis Johnson/Frankie Smokes comparison is a good one. DSJ has tons of time to improve --he's nowhere near a finished product. Its gonna come down to his body holding up and some of that how seriously he takes conditioning, dieting, etc. And of course how hard he works. He's in the right place if he wants it.

The thing that limits his upside to me is that he's a few inches short in height and reach to be John Wall, which one would have to hope his upside would be. Not sure he can ever be the defender John Wall is. Steve Francis was also bigger and longer. He's also not built like Derrick Harper, another guy who's career arc Nkitilina's could mirror. I'm still happy we have him over Frank but its far from settled who will have the better career. Nkitilina does seem to lack some burst. But he seems smart enough with a good feel and frame and nice release to eventually compensate.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

When they played TOGETHER, which was the point of the matter, Pippen was always Jordan's Pippen.

Except Frank ain't no "Pippen" because Pippen was a guy who could come in 3rd in MVP voting when Jordan was out of the league. Jordan had a dominant sidekick who wasn't afraid to take over when called upon -- Frank isn't even gonna be the third-best player on a lottery team. He's just a one-dimensional role player.

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

There's a chance that I've watched the Mavericks for longer than you've been alive

I remember watching Dr. J before the Mavericks were even a team. I had my fill of Celtics vs Lakers before Michael Jordan was even in the league. I was old enough to have strong opinions about my Bad Boys finally putting Showtime Basketball to rest when Scottie Pippen was still wet behind the ears... You can kick your Michael "Captain Old School" Rapaport routine to the fucking curb.

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Smith? Maybe 20 games now. Not impressed yet. And very comfortable with my understanding of the game.

I don't know which 20 games you caught, but if you're more impressed with Frank Ntilikina than Dennis Smith Jr, then your "comfort" in your understanding of the game doesn't reflect your actual understanding of the game.

Dennis flashes alpha tendencies (like Pippen) -- he's a leader, a scorer, he's as comfortable running an offense as he is taking the last shot in a game... But he's also comfortable deferring, using the drive and kick to hit Barnes/Dirk/Wes in their spots (to varying effectiveness). What he really lacks is a pick & roll partner (RIP Noel) -- he would completely dominate with KP and help take pressure off of the big guy offensively, which is EXACTLY what Porzingis needs right now... Frank doesn't provide any relief on offense.

[Underdog]

COULD NTILIKINA BE SENT TO G-LEAGUE?!
https://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/c...t-to-g-league/