GDT Game 54 - Mavs (17-36) at Clippers (26-25) 9:30pm FSSW - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

spreedom · 02-06-2018, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

This wasn't a tank effort in the 4th qtr. Avery Bradley played some hellacious defense, DeAndre Jordan got some huge boards, and Lou Williams & Gallinari hit some big shots. Mavs just aren't good enough to stop them.

Whew! That was a close one. Thank goodness we dropped it.

What really pisses me off is with Orlando's win tonight, if the Mavs had dropped Saturday's game to SAC we'd be the outright worst record in the league. Smh. Such an unnecessary win. 12 minutes & a 18-0 run away from the worst record in the leauge.

We have @ GSW, vs LAL, @ HOU, and vs SAC left before the break. Real chance we enter the break with just 17 wins. We know for sure we're dropping 2 of those games. Also sounds like Barnes might miss a few games with this ankle injury.

I hope the Warriors blow us out by 40 on Thursday to show the Front Office what this team really is.

I thought tonight was an extremely obvious tanking effort.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

It's widely known that Carlisle and Popovich have a reputation for not liking to play rookies. I was saying Carlisle is taking that approach with Motley, not the other rookies.

It's widely known that Mavs fans thought they were smarter than Rick about Roddy and reality handed them their asses.

I mean, have you seen the rookies we've had over the years? Are any of them still in the league aside from Crowder and Anderson? It's almost like Carlisle knows what he's doing... You can blame Donnie for drafting garbage, but you can't blame Rick for keeping that garbage on the bench.

That said, Motley hasn't been practicing with the team for very long. It takes a bit of time to build chemistry, there's a good chance that none of the players trust him yet.

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It's widely known that Mavs fans thought they were smarter than Rick about Roddy and reality handed fans their ass.

I'm not questioning Carlisle's player evaluation ability. I am questioning whether getting more minutes for our veterans over Motley is wise. I will give him some slack seeing how Powell is absorbing more minutes, and even I don't want to see Dirk's minutes impacted by the tanking effort.

That said, Barnes was out tonight & we were facing the Clippers who had Gallinari & Jordan on the floor for most of the game. Definitely an opportunity to play a big lineup vs the opponent. Rick chose not to in favor of guys like Ferrell, Devin Harris, Barea & Wes Matthews.

3 years from now, in all likelihood, none of those guys will still be with the Mavs, so why do we care about their development? Honestly, Motley is a longshot to be with the Mavs 3 years from now either, but at least we can get an honest look at the guy & see what we have. Kinda like what they're doing with Powell right now.

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

you can't blame Rick for keeping that garbage on the bench.

You can if your goal is to lose games. What perspective do you think I'm looking at these games from? You think I'm critiquing the Mavs on how they can best win games? I'm talking about what they should do in the best interest of the franchise long-term, and 99% of the time that's what they can do to lose these games.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Definitely an opportunity to play a big lineup vs the opponent. Rick chose not to in favor of guys like Ferrell, Devin Harris, Barea & Wes Matthews.

Matching up big seems antithetical to tanking... Which way do you want it?

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:22 AM

@BallinWithBryan: Carlisle on the play down the stretch: "I decided to play the young guys down the stretch to get them the experience of closing the game -- and they learned a few things.”

@BallinWithBryan: Carlisle on Dennis Smith Jr.: “Dennis can’t have a night like that. Again, this is how young players learn. Unfortunately, young players plus learning equals painful. It’s painful to lose, but he’ll get better from it."

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

@BallinWithBryan: Carlisle on the play down the stretch: "I decided to play the young guys down the stretch to get them the experience of closing the game -- and they learned a few things.”

@BallinWithBryan: Carlisle on Dennis Smith Jr.: “Dennis can’t have a night like that. Again, this is how young players learn. Unfortunately, young players plus learning equals painful. It’s painful to lose, but he’ll get better from it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

This Carlisle doesn't like to play rookies notion is bad news for this team. I love that DSJ was in late. I bet he'll remember not to get overly aggressive in the backcourt with a lead late in the game & not foul to stop the clock & put the opponent on the line. I bet Kleber remembers not to rush the ball up the floor with a lead in the last minute of the game. Next time I bet he pulls the ball back out & run some clock.

Good learning experiences for those two. Now, if we can only get Motley some on-the-job training.

Don't see where I'm saying anything different. Maybe it's just me, though.

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Matching up big seems antithetical to tanking... Which way do you want it?

How so?

Which way do I want it? I want Motley in the game. Why? Because of what Carlisle said, "Playing young players + learning = painful" That's the way I want it.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Don't see where I'm saying anything different. Maybe it's just me, though.

I only debated the idea that Rick hates rookies -- the rest of your post was spot-on, which is why I didn't quote or argue against it.

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I only debated the idea that Rick hates rookies -- the rest of your post was spot-on, which is why I didn't quote or argue against it.

Fair enough. To be fair to Carlisle, he earned that reputation when the Mavs were in the playoffs every year & it made more sense to bring rookies along slowly.

Also, in all fairness, I'm a HUGE tank first fan. Outside of it impacting DSJ's minutes or Dirk's, I want the Mavs to do every thing they possibly can to tank---right up to the line they'd draw the attention of the league office. So, I'm always going to come across as a biased fan who wants the Mavs to take extra measures to tank.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

How so?

Which way do I want it? I want Motley in the game. Why? Because of what Carlisle said, "Playing young players + learning = painful" That's the way I want it.

But matching Motley up against LA's bigger lineup instead of going small like we did could have given us a better chance of winning... Does he lose that jump ball to DeAndra at the end?

Maybe Rick really is trying to tank games... Maybe that's why a guy like Kleber got yanked from the starting lineup after we got on that hot streak... Who knows? A coach like Carlisle isn't going to be obvious about tanking, even if he is trying to lose games.

EDIT: just read your last post and it seems like we're not necessarily in disagreement.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 01:50 AM

@EarlKSneed: Dirk Nowitzki says he just noticed his misspelled jersey: “I actually just saw it. I had no idea. I guess it happens. I usually look at my jersey, so I never even saw it myself. It happens. I guess it kind of sums up our season.”

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 01:52 AM

I think we're saying the same thing U-dog.

Guess who led the Mavs in +/- tonight? Barea again with +12. I guess what I'm saying is if we're going to be smart tonight (in terms of doing our best to tank), then I want the Mavs to go all the way. Like another poster said on this forum today. No half measures.

Get Barea out of there Sat vs the Kings in the 4th qtr. Get Motley in there. I guess that's too obvious, and maybe the Mavs will start doing those kinda things in March. But, I just feel like we're going to be in a tight "race" for the worst record, so every win that we can possibly avoid we NEED to.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I think we're saying the same thing U-dog.

Guess who led the Mavs in +/- tonight? Barea again with +12. I guess what I'm saying is if we're going to be smart tonight (in terms of doing our best to tank), then I want the Mavs to go all the way. Like another poster said on this forum today. No half measures.

Get Barea out of there Sat vs the Kings in the 4th qtr. Get Motley in there. I guess that's too obvious, and maybe the Mavs will start doing those kinda things in March. But, I just feel like we're going to be in a tight "race" for the worst record, so every win that we can possibly avoid we NEED to.

I kinda wonder if we're showcasing Barea right now... He'd be a fantastic backup on a contender (especially the Cavs).

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I kinda wonder if we're showcasing Barea right now... He'd be a fantastic backup on a contender (especially the Cavs).

If that's the case, then I'll retract everything I said about the Mavs playing him during that 18-0 run on Saturday vs SAC. Other posters here have me convinced he's part of the Mavs' culture, though. Even heard Donnie Nelson talking about how he's a "special, special" player in the pre-game show.

I find it hard to believe because the Mavs seem a lot like Jerry Jones, more concerned with sentiment & emotions than doing the tough, smart thing for the best long-term benefit of the franchise. The cupboard is awfully bare in terms of assets though, so hopefully the Mavs can make something happen. Moving Barea & getting him out of the lineup would be one of the best tank moves the Mavs could make. It'd be a double bonus!

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-06-2018, 08:47 AM

I am glad we lost, but Smith's shooting woes are still a bit concerning.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I am glad we lost, but Smith's shooting woes are still a bit concerning.

Rookie wall.

Magnum_3_Ball · 02-06-2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I am glad we lost, but Smith's shooting woes are still a bit concerning.

I've been impressed with his range. I'd have to look closer, but nothing about his form jumps out at me as poor. I'm just not worried about a guy who just turned 20 & doesn't shoot great, yet. I made a post on here awhile back about how DSJ's #s are remarkably similar to Westbrook's #s in his rookie year (across the board). DSJ has never had to rely on his jump shooting to get him through games; he's always just been more athletic than everyone else on the floor. Even though DSJ is still more athletic than most of his competition the gap isn't so wide anymore, and now he has to adjust.

If anything, I'm more concerned about his shot selection at times, but he's still young & learning. I'll be more concerned if it's year 3 & he's fallen off of Westbrook's pace. Then again, DSJ 39.1% FG this season, Wes Matthews (who I've heard posters here call a great shooter) 40.9% FG this season.

MavzMan · 02-06-2018, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

It's widely known that Carlisle and Popovich have a reputation for not liking to play rookies. I was saying Carlisle is taking that approach with Motley, not the other rookies.

First, you're contradicting yourself. "Carlisle doesn't play rookies. Carlisle takes that approach with Motley, but not the other rookies." So what you're really trying to say is that Carlisle is fine with rookies, just not Motley ... for whatever reason.

Second, Carlisle and Popovich I believe have the same coaching patterns. They cannot stand low BBIQ players regardless if they are rookie or not, but it just happens to be more prevalent in rookies. For example, we thought getting OJ Mayo was going to be great. He turned out to be one of the lowest BBIQ players in the league. Then we got Monta and I still love the guy, but he did/does consistently make bone-headed plays.

Lastly, RC actually has played rookie/young players that show the determination and effort such as Yogi, Jae Crowder, Justin Anderson, and even going all the way back to Josh Howard. So I just don't buy the whole "RC doesn't play rookies" argument.

MavzMan · 02-06-2018, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Rookie wall.

I was kind of wondering this last night also. He definitely looked like he was out of energy the whole game and seemed to be forcing plays more than usual. I'm glad he's getting facetime during the dunk competition but I hope he gets some downtime over the ASB also.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I was kind of wondering this last night also. He definitely looked like he was out of energy the whole game and seemed to be forcing plays more than usual. I'm glad he's getting facetime during the dunk competition but I hope he gets some downtime over the ASB also.

Yeah, Dennis has looked tired for the last few games now.

And he's not just in the dunk competition, but also the Rising Stars game, which actually worries me a bit... I hope he mostly sits on the bench, the kid really needs a break.

saclare · 02-06-2018, 10:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Melonhead

11-0 run to finish? Lol wtf tank on

13-0 actually - huge tanks.

Underdog · 02-06-2018, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I made a post on here awhile back about how DSJ's #s are remarkably similar to Westbrook's #s in his rookie year (across the board).

Looks like someone has been reading your posts...

@BallinWithBryan: Heard a tidbit from @espn_macmahon on @bobbykaralla & @SkinWade’s Numbers on the Board pod and that made me go dig. Here is a comp of the first 46 games for Russell Westbrook and Dennis Smith Jr. Interesting stuff.