Official Rangers off season thread - Page 16 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 09:09 PM

Elvis just hit a friggin home run...

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Elvis just hit a friggin home run...

It wasn't some cheapy either. He put a charge into it.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It wasn't some cheapy either. He put a charge into it.

Definitely - did you see Wash after he hit it... Ha - funny stuff.

In other news (and despite his unfortunate error that otherwise would have saved a run) Davis keeps on hitting.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2011, 10:33 PM

Davis is actually younger than Moreland. This is far from decided.. Yes, Moreland will get his shot to start the season. I hope he takes advantage of this shot.. With that being said, Davis may be on the roster to fill some other void sooner rather than later. It's a long season, and Davis is very likely to get another shot here in a Rangers uniform. It's just going to take some patience on his part.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Davis is actually younger than Moreland. This is far from decided.. Yes, Moreland will get his shot to start the season. I hope he takes advantage of this shot.. With that being said, Davis may be on the roster to fill some other void sooner rather than later. It's a long season, and Davis is very likely to get another shot here in a Rangers uniform. It's just going to take some patience on his part.

It appears you are a huge fan of Davis and I think mostly everyone here knows I love the guy and always have (WOW HUGE HR BY MURPHY THERE BTW). With that said, do you think there is a case to be made for trading high on him while hoping he doesn't pull an AGon or even a Hafner?

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:56 PM

I don't think trading him now would be trading high. He tore up Spring Training last year too. I can't imagine that he's drawing nice offers. I'm sure he's drawing a ton of offers, just like it's been reported, but for anything of any real substance? I doubt it.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think trading him now would be trading high. He tore up Spring Training last year too. I can't imagine that he's drawing nice offers. I'm sure he's drawing a ton of offers, just like it's been reported, but for anything of any real substance? I doubt it.

Let me rephrase... Trading as high as you can on him. You either trade him now while he is a pleasant unknown or roll the dice and play him at the MLB level. Ultimately he either plays well and you keep him or he plays poorly and his offers decrease. Sending him to AAA and having him tear it up there doesn't really improve his value because he has done that too. At least here he is hitting MLB-level talent (just ask Bell).

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Let me rephrase... Trading as high as you can on him. You either trade him now while he is a pleasant unknown or roll the dice and play him at the MLB level. Ultimately he either plays well and you keep him or he plays poorly and his offers decrease. Sending him to AAA and having him tear it up there doesn't really improve his value because he has done that too. At least here he is hitting MLB-level talent (just ask Bell).

Yeah, I wouldn't mind too much if they did that.

My preference, though, would just be to ride it out the whole season and see if an opportunity opens up for him on the ML roster, so you can give him one last shot in a Ranger uniform.

I still think there's a decent chance that Young is traded before his 10/5 rights kick in (sometime in May I believe), which would be an opening for Davis.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, I wouldn't mind too much if they did that.

My preference, though, would just be to ride it out the whole season and see if an opportunity opens up for him on the ML roster, so you can give him one last shot in a Ranger uniform.

I still think there's a decent chance that Young is traded before his 10/5 rights kick in (sometime in May I believe), which would be an opening for Davis.

Oh man that would be great to me... Absolute ideal scenario given our current situation? Trade Young for a closer so that Feliz can be in the rotation and open a spot for Davis with the Young trade. This helps you get a younger more talented 1B in here in Davis (in my opinion anyway). You improve the defense that much more and have Napoli play 1B/C/DH and Moreland play DH/1B/COF. I think Davis has turned the corner like Cruz did a few years back - I sure hope we don't let another stud 1B get away due to not having enough patience.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 10:57 PM

By the way - Rhadigan really does suck at his new job. Seriously.

Earlier tonight a pitch was fouled and dude says "...And he swings and misses....................fouls it off" only to just now ask "...did he get enough of it?" on an absolute BLAST by Murphy (a homerun that from sound alone a blind man knew was gone).

P.S. Those are not the only two examples in case you were wondering. It's early and it is a heck of a transition so hopefully for all of our sakes he improves greatly over the first couple of months. I can't imagine gearing up for a playoff run still listening to this garbage.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 10:59 PM

Yeah, he's been really bad. I want to give him fair shake, because he's by all accounts a really, really nice guy, and I enjoy him on the radio at times, but he's really, really raw right now.

And "saddle up baseball" is just awful.

I wasn't real high on Lewin, but so far his replacement has not gone well.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yeah, he's been really bad. I want to give him fair shake, because he's by all accounts a really, really nice guy, and I enjoy him on the radio at times, but he's really, really raw right now.

And "saddle up baseball" is just awful.

I wasn't real high on Lewin, but so far his replacement has not gone well.

Yeah - same here on wanting the guy to have success... Hopefully he can learn the nuances of this new gig. But man - hurry the hell up. I feel like muting this shit sometimes.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

Yeah - same here on wanting the guy to have success... Hopefully he can learn the nuances of this new gig. But man - hurry the hell up. I feel like muting this shit sometimes.

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

No I haven't - thanks for the warning though. I will make sure I am planted firmly in front of the TV come time for a Rangers game.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

No I haven't - thanks for the warning though. I will make sure I am planted firmly in front of the TV come time for a Rangers game.

Well thankfully Nadel is awesome, so it does offset.

Man I wish Nadel and Grieve could work together.

chumdawg · 03-18-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Have you had much occasion to hear Barnett on the radio at all? If not, get ready. He is worse. He's the worst professional radio announcer I've ever heard.

Ironically he's not terrible on tv, because he's not responsible for painting the picture (which he just flat out can't do). He might have been a better choice than Rhads on tv.....

Is this Dave Barnett you are talking about? Dude is a seasoned pro.

Then again, Brad Sham is also a seasoned pro. He's the worst I've ever heard, in terms of filling you in on what happened. Like this: "...Romo...Bryant!...touchdown!!"

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Is this Dave Barnett you are talking about? Dude is a seasoned pro.

Then again, Brad Sham is also a seasoned pro. He's the worst I've ever heard, in terms of filling you in on what happened. Like this: "...Romo...Bryant!...touchdown!!"

Barnett is a good basketball announcer. He is absolutely horrendous as a radio baseball announcer. Just awful. You never have any idea what's going on when he's announcing, and when he DOES try to relay info he's often corrected by Nadel.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:11 PM

Sigh... Good job Borbon.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:12 PM

EXACTLY RHADIGAN - Listen and learn from Grieve... He had no issue catching it - he slowed down for fear of hitting the wall... You know, something Hamilton never does. Like I said so many times before - he has the range, but has no idea how to make the difficult catch.

Basically he is a helluva athlete that is trying to learn to play defense. He is not a great defensive outfielder.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male29Dan

EXACTLY RHADIGAN - Listen and learn from Grieve... He had no issue catching it - he slowed down for fear of hitting the wall... You know, something Hamilton never does. Like I said so many times before - he has the range, but has no idea how to make the difficult catch.

Basically he is a helluva athlete that is trying to learn to play defense. He is not a great defensive outfielder.

He was a really good defender last year. He does seem to have the yips or something this spring; it's concerning.

Although I'm not real concerned about him not wanting to crash into the wall during spring training (I didn't see the play, so going off what you said).

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

He was a really good defender last year. He does seem to have the yips or something this spring; it's concerning.

Although I'm not real concerned about him not wanting to crash into the wall during spring training (I didn't see the play, so going off what you said).

You know me - I am an asshole typically.

That said, completely not trying to be that at all here, is it possible that he simply covered a lot of ground and didn't drop balls that he made it to so therefore seemed to be a really good defender when the truth of the matter is that he was just a really fast guy?

He takes poor angles from what I see, slows up when he should be sprinting, and puts himself in situations where he has to react REALLY fast to make up for his poor angles and decrease in speed. What that leads me to think is that, in general, he probably had those same traits most of last year and they didn't burn him while he has been fairly unlucky with balls hit just far enough that his issues are more noticeable at this current moment.

Just a thought.

Male30Dan · 03-18-2011, 11:17 PM

First poor at bat I have seen in a while from Davis.

jthig32 · 03-18-2011, 11:55 PM

Yep, I remember a bit of Holtz and Nadel. Greatness.

I liked Cotroneo paired with Nadel. I didn't like Rojas much when he was here, but after hearing Barnett I'd love to have him back.

I've actually flipped to music during games last season simply because I couldn't take Barnett.

Male30Dan · 03-24-2011, 04:01 PM

Sigh... It is official.

Feliz to close.

muzak · 03-24-2011, 04:08 PM

It's where he needs to be for now. They need to find a suitable closer first, then reassess the situation. It's not as simple as plugging in someone else from our pen, it shifts everything around. Just think about all those close games where you can feel comfortable knowing you have Feliz coming in to close the game out. I remember all those holding-my-breath moments of (late) Franky and CJ. With Feliz, I never felt anxious.

jthig32 · 03-24-2011, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

It's where he needs to be for now. They need to find a suitable closer first, then reassess the situation. It's not as simple as plugging in someone else from our pen, it shifts everything around. Just think about all those close games where you can feel comfortable knowing you have Feliz coming in to close the game out. I remember all those holding-my-breath moments of (late) Franky and CJ. With Feliz, I never felt anxious.

The Rangers lost a ton of games in the 8th and 9th innings last year. It's not like Feliz was Rivera out there. Going into last season we had Frank Francisco as our closer, who was hardly established as a sure thing in the closer spot.

And the reality is that the closer spot is over rated. The majority of the games they enter are in the 9th with no one on base and a multiple-run lead. That is not a high leverage situation. There is more emotional attachment to losing games in the 9th, so that does add to the importance, but it's still a highly overrated position.

Male30Dan · 03-24-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzak

It's where he needs to be for now. They need to find a suitable closer first, then reassess the situation. It's not as simple as plugging in someone else from our pen, it shifts everything around. Just think about all those close games where you can feel comfortable knowing you have Feliz coming in to close the game out. I remember all those holding-my-breath moments of (late) Franky and CJ. With Feliz, I never felt anxious.

Wrong, but it doesn't matter now anyway. It is what it is.

jthig32 · 03-24-2011, 09:51 PM

So...hmm. I predicted this would happen, and I was of the opinion that Feliz would not be ready to start this year.

But the more I hear Nolan talk, the more annoyed I get. He flat out said that Feliz would be starting if the weren't bullpen weren't such a problem. And that's just not ok. Starters are way, way, WAY more important than bullpen pitchers, and if Feliz is ready to contribute as a starter, he's going to make your team better there.

And it's not like we have fantastic depth in the rotation either, not until (unless?) Webb is healthy. Hunter got hurt today and is now questionable for the start of the season, meaning you're looking at Kirkman or Dave Bush.

I dunno, I'm not real up in arms on this like the entire Sabre community is, but I do think it's dumb if the primary reason was bullpen instability based on Spring Training results.

Male30Dan · 03-24-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

So...hmm. I predicted this would happen, and I was of the opinion that Feliz would not be ready to start this year.

But the more I hear Nolan talk, the more annoyed I get. He flat out said that Feliz would be starting if the weren't bullpen weren't such a problem. And that's just not ok. Starters are way, way, WAY more important than bullpen pitchers, and if Feliz is ready to contribute as a starter, he's going to make your team better there.

And it's not like we have fantastic depth in the rotation either, not until (unless?) Webb is healthy. Hunter got hurt today and is now questionable for the start of the season, meaning you're looking at Kirkman or Dave Bush.

I dunno, I'm not real up in arms on this like the entire Sabre community is, but I do think it's dumb if the primary reason was bullpen instability based on Spring Training results.

You definitely were wrong about him not being ready, but I am with you on being frustrated with the reason they chose to keep him in the pen. It just sucks. But as I just told muzak - it is what it is. Move on and let's figure out a way to have a successful season without a helluva stud holding down one of the 5 rotation spots.

Here is to Harrison, Hunter (if healthy), and Holland growing up real fast.

chumdawg · 03-24-2011, 10:39 PM

Is there somewhere one can go to look at the math/argument between the value of the two roles?

jthig32 · 03-25-2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Is there somewhere one can go to look at the math/argument between the value of the two roles?

I don't have anything to link to off the top of my head, but 150-200 innings vs 70 innings if fairly straight forward and a pretty strong starting point.

chumdawg · 03-25-2011, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't have anything to link to off the top of my head, but 150-200 innings vs 70 innings if fairly straight forward and a pretty strong starting point.

I would guess that those innings aren't equally valued, though.

Male30Dan · 03-25-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I would guess that those innings aren't equally valued, though.

Look, I get the impact the position can have and I understand how demoralizing it can be to lose a 1 run game that you have led throughout because you can't shut the door in the 9th inning. While this certainly wasn't a 1-run game, I STILL remember that Baltimore game from last year (and this is where you ask "which one?").

That said, 200 innings from a guy that can be as dominant as I feel Feliz can be is definitely WAY more important than a position that often times (as Thiggy pointed out) comes in with a 2-3 run lead and has to literally suck a great deal to blow the save.

Sure, there are 1-run saves and sometimes you even use your closer in tie games when you bat last trying to ensure the other team fails to score.

That said, if I were in the shoes of the decision makers I would have made a trade for a closer or stuck Ogando in there and put Feliz in the rotation. I just would have. Some of the struggles from Lowe/ODay/Rhodes won't end up carrying over once the season starts as a couple of these guys regularly suck in ST and do very well when it counts.

I don't know - to me, you put a guy in the rotation if he has ace potential, wants the ball every 5 days, and has shown he can be successful in the major leagues. You do that every single time. Every. Single. Time.

jthig32 · 03-25-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I would guess that those innings aren't equally valued, though.

They're not, but there would have to be a huge difference between the values to make up for that big of a discrepancy in the total number of innings.

Closers aren't even utilized to maximize their value. If they were used as a fireman, being used in the highest leverage situation every game, the argument would at least be better.

muzak · 03-25-2011, 06:51 AM

Well, I think you're underrating the position. We'll have to agree to disagree.

jthig32 · 03-28-2011, 10:35 AM

Hmm. I'm feeling much less confident in my bet with Dan based on the news of Treanor being traded.

Rhylan · 03-28-2011, 02:13 PM

On the Treanor deal, I think this is as simple as a team that has enough questions about it's arms that it can't afford a personal catcher taking up a spot, when Torrealba and Napoli started 148 games at catcher between them last year.

jthig32 · 03-28-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhylan

On the Treanor deal, I think this is as simple as a team that has enough questions about it's arms that it can't afford a personal catcher taking up a spot, when Torrealba and Napoli started 148 games at catcher between them last year.

He wasn't going to be a personal catcher. Napoli just wasn't going to catch much, because he's terrible at it.

I don't think this lasts the whole year.

And carrying an 8 man bullpen is dumb.

Rhylan · 03-28-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Napoli just wasn't going to catch much, because he's terrible at it.

What's your basis for this? I know admittedly little about his catching abilities - all I know is Darren Oliver had good things to say about him as a catcher from his days w/ the Angels. I assume he will at least be adequate, given what the Rangers have had behind the plate in recent years at backup C, unless I see/hear otherwise. I didn't watch any Angels games last year, though.

If it's determined that Napoli is serviceable as a backup catcher, then Treanor has nothing really keeping him on the roster. Treanor wasn't going to give you anything at the plate or anything in terms of a throwing threat.. his primary value besides a smidge of vet leadership (which alone isn't worth a roster spot), was being CJ's favorite. And you get more plate apps for both Napoli and Young if Napoli jumps in as backup instead of Treanor.

I could be wrong, especially if Napoli is untenable as a backup catcher.. but I don't believe anybody said that was why LAA was losing games last year.

muzak · 03-28-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

because he's terrible at it.

I'm just curious how you know this? Who can watch Angels games when the Rangers play everyday and you work 40 hours a week? Other than guys who make the highlights consistently, it's got to be hard to accurately gauge talent you can't see on a daily basis. Not trying to make an argument for Napoli, or de-validate yours, I'm being completely genuine here. Because, I've only seen him play a handful of games in the last few years and I can't recall one way or the other. That may be a bad sign that nothing was memorable...not sure.