2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 41 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dtownsfinest · 07-05-2021, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

LMAO this is the only time he made the playoffs. So you're talking about 2-3 games total without Trae are you serious. I didn't even mention Luka in my post but it doesn't matter you're beyond ridiculous in fact you win I'm just going to put you on ignore and talk to decent fans.

Trae played in 16 of 18 of the Hawks playoff games so you either didn't do proper research which I've seen you do the same over and over (argued Luka is a good 3 point shooter etc..) or you're seriously saying you're not interested in John Collins because of two basketball games. Anyway wasted enough time with you intentionally being a pest.

Ok. Bye.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-05-2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

Luca Dunkish is pretty good at basketball.

Yeah but if only he had passed the ball more to Dwight Powell. Then we'd be champions.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-05-2021, 06:31 PM

Only reason I wouldn't max Collins is because it's a guard/perimeter driven league not because of 2 games without Trae. I'd rather spend my cap space on guards and wings over bigs at this point.

BPo001 · 07-05-2021, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Only reason I wouldn't max Collins is because it's a guard/perimeter driven league not because of 2 games without Trae. I'd rather spend my cap space on guards and wings over bigs at this point.

Pretty crazy that every Finals MVP since Dirk won it has been a SF. I really like Collins as a player, and think he would be great here. I’m not willing to wait on him though since he is a RFA. Plus we need someone that can create their own shot which I don’t know that he is yet.

Zeus · 07-05-2021, 07:15 PM

Good read on how Travis Schlenk totally rebuilt the Hawks since joining in 2017 from the Warriors. Makes it all the more apparent that the Mavs finally did the right thing moving on from the previous front office that has been wallowing for the past decade.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/5/2...travis-schlenk

Zeus · 07-05-2021, 07:15 PM

Good read on how Travis Schlenk totally rebuilt the Hawks since joining in 2017 from the Warriors. Makes it all the more apparent that the Mavs finally did the right thing moving on from the previous front office that has been wallowing for the past decade.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/5/2...travis-schlenk

Here is the key snippet at the end of the article from The Ringer:

What Schlenk pulled off should be the model for the rest of the NBA. He built through the draft without getting a top-two pick, and added the right complementary pieces even though the franchise does not have a history of luring free agents. It’s the same thing he did in Golden State, where he helped GM Bob Myers put together one of the best cores in NBA history. Schlenk didn’t reinvent the wheel. He scouted well, found players who fit together, and stuck to his convictions when many had been written off. Maybe no one will write a book about him, or turn him into a cult hero. But he won’t be fired, either.

JustJay · 07-05-2021, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Only reason I wouldn't max Collins is because it's a guard/perimeter driven league not because of 2 games without Trae. I'd rather spend my cap space on guards and wings over bigs at this point.

That's more reasonable, and while I would probably not spend a max contract on a point guard either since Luka controls the ball I would love a good SF. The problem is they're either too good (i.e. Kawhi) or not that good. Of course Kawhi would be my #1 choice to get over all but after him I'm not sure who's the 2nd best SF that we could reasonably acquire. At some point though we have to stop spending the entire free agency chasing stars and just pay good players and let the chips fall where they may. You can always trade a good player. The league has gotten to where most of the good players (as in good but not necessarily even great) seem to get the max unfortunately.

Collins had a little bit of a down year this season averaging 17 pgg but last season he averaged 21 ppg. That's along the lines of Porzingis. He is highly effecient though at scoring at the basket and even 3 pointers, with good defense. He is not a superstar, but if some other avenues fail I would rather end up with him than holding out for superstars only and settling for scraps like we've done over and over. I'm truly hoping with the change of GM that's over.

All of that said, there's a good chance Atlanta would match after the run they had making it moot.

JustJay · 07-05-2021, 09:13 PM

For the last decade the MBT has been the average looking guy who's holding out for a super model.

EricaLubarsky · 07-05-2021, 09:44 PM

Melli heading to Europe

There goes our off-season plans.

What’s plan B?

EricaLubarsky · 07-05-2021, 09:49 PM

Melli heading to Europe

There goes our off-season plans.

What’s plan B?

Bryan_Wilson · 07-05-2021, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Melli heading to Europe

There goes our off-season plans.

What’s plan B?

The return of Kidd.
The return of JJ.
The return of Dirk.
Plan B? Why it's the return of...

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

Good read on how Travis Schlenk totally rebuilt the Hawks since joining in 2017 from the Warriors. Makes it all the more apparent that the Mavs finally did the right thing moving on from the previous front office that has been wallowing for the past decade.

https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/5/2...travis-schlenk

I remember that hire...I didn't think it would work....he was almost building like a mini-Warriors team..I don't know what the end game is for them but he did a solid job in a short period of time.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Only reason I wouldn't max Collins is because it's a guard/perimeter driven league not because of 2 games without Trae. I'd rather spend my cap space on guards and wings over bigs at this point.

Its not that I Think he can't play with someone else...what bothers me is his ability to create for himself and others. Doesn't seem to be able to do that just like KP really can't....so if I had to use max money on a guy....Collins wouldn't be that guy though I'm not opposed to bringing in Collins...

I also have to wonder how much is too much for the Hawks to match? They spent all year trying to trade him....I'm not so sure if him getting matched is guaranteed.

tap2390 · 07-06-2021, 07:57 AM

I would only pursue Collins if you can move KP for a wing. Preferably (or realistically) Wiggins + 7.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I would only pursue Collins if you can move KP for a wing. Preferably (or realistically) Wiggins + 7.

Wiggins is rough.....I thought he took a major step this year but man he scares me..he also may be the best wing available if he even is available.....

Collins or KP is tough for me if they are getting similar deals....we at least have 3 years of KP..Collins would have 4 right?

rimrocker · 07-06-2021, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I would only pursue Collins if you can move KP for a wing. Preferably (or realistically) Wiggins + 7.

I could get onboard with a Luka/Collins/Wiggins young core to build around.
Brunson/DFS/Maxi/WCS/Green would be a nice young supporting cast and then add a few vets to fill in any voids.

SMC0007 · 07-06-2021, 12:14 PM

I don't see how Collins is even available. ATL make it to 1 game from the finals and then let's go of a huge key player? I don't see him going anywhere. Tiny tiny chance but not worth chasing up at the KP money Range. Getting him and moving KP seems like too tall of a task.

BPo001 · 07-06-2021, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't see how Collins is even available. ATL make it to 1 game from the finals and then let's go of a huge key player? I don't see him going anywhere. Tiny tiny chance but not worth chasing up at the KP money Range. Getting him and moving KP seems like too tall of a task.

My thoughts exactly. I don’t see ATL letting him walk when they were so close. I’d rather not tie up our FA chances while we wait for ATL to match.

tap2390 · 07-06-2021, 01:08 PM

I agree with both of your guys that ATL would err on the side of matching. They do have a bit of a logjam at the 4/5 however, and my personal theory is they would prefer to play Reddish at the 4 with Capela at the 5.

I only go after Collins if you can work out a sign and trade. IMO Kleber/ Brunson would get it done.

SMC0007 · 07-06-2021, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I agree with both of your guys that ATL would err on the side of matching. They do have a bit of a logjam at the 4/5 however, and my personal theory is they would prefer to play Reddish at the 4 with Capela at the 5.

I only go after Collins if you can work out a sign and trade. IMO Kleber/ Brunson would get it done.

Kleber Brunson would be a no Brainer for me personally but that then eats into the cap space basically forcing us to SnT for Derozan who I reallllly want.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't see how Collins is even available. ATL make it to 1 game from the finals and then let's go of a huge key player? I don't see him going anywhere. Tiny tiny chance but not worth chasing up at the KP money Range. Getting him and moving KP seems like too tall of a task.

I think where it’s coming from is that the Hawks tried their best to trade him this year. He was almost traded…I don’t think this playoff changes how they feel about him. It comes down to whether or not the Hawks GM wants to give him a max deal or use that money on another max player. I kind of feel like they are leaning towards the latter.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

I agree with both of your guys that ATL would err on the side of matching. They do have a bit of a logjam at the 4/5 however, and my personal theory is they would prefer to play Reddish at the 4 with Capela at the 5.

I only go after Collins if you can work out a sign and trade. IMO Kleber/ Brunson would get it done.

They would start Galanari or Hunter at the 4 before they would Reddish. I just read McMillian is comparing Reddish to George so I’m seeing him more of a 2 or 3…..

EricaLubarsky · 07-06-2021, 06:46 PM

Ian Mahinmi retiring

There goes plan C

SMC0007 · 07-06-2021, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I think where it’s coming from is that the Hawks tried their best to trade him this year. He was almost traded…I don’t think this playoff changes how they feel about him. It comes down to whether or not the Hawks GM wants to give him a max deal or use that money on another max player. I kind of feel like they are leaning towards the latter.

They tried their best to trade him?

BPo001 · 07-06-2021, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

They tried their best to trade him?

I remember hearing his name getting tossed around at the trade deadline, but I wouldn’t say “they tried their best to trade him”. If that was the case he’d be gone.

SMC0007 · 07-06-2021, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I remember hearing his name getting tossed around at the trade deadline, but I wouldn’t say “they tried their best to trade him”. If that was the case he’d be gone.

There were deals that they passed on so unless there's a few articles I missed since then I agree.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

They tried their best to trade him?

I could be wrong but I thought the situation went the Hawks offered him a deal below the Max....Collins said "no" and they attempted to trade him.

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPo001

I remember hearing his name getting tossed around at the trade deadline, but I wouldn’t say “they tried their best to trade him”. If that was the case he’d be gone.

I'm speaking hypothetically here but if the best deal you can get is KP for Collins would you trade him?

Dtownsfinest · 07-06-2021, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Ian Mahinmi retiring

There goes plan C

Had no idea he was even still in the league.

SMC0007 · 07-06-2021, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I could be wrong but I thought the situation went the Hawks offered him a deal below the Max....Collins said "no" and they attempted to trade him.

I don't think there was anyone that matched his salary who was near his level. Idk, I never heard they went to great lengths to trade him. I thought they just knew the situation they were going to be in and it made sense to listen to offers. Someone is definitely going to put Atl in the hot seat by offering him more than 22.5m per. If they want to keep him they are going to have to eat a deal closer to max than what they offered. Dallas probably can't afford to get into that waiting game. This is the year where we might have to blur the lines of tampering....whether it's Derozan, Lowry, Collins or any other top talent.

Dtownsfinest · 07-07-2021, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't think there was anyone that matched his salary who was near his level. Idk, I never heard they went to great lengths to trade him. I thought they just knew the situation they were going to be in and it made sense to listen to offers. Someone is definitely going to put Atl in the hot seat by offering him more than 22.5m per. If they want to keep him they are going to have to eat a deal closer to max than what they offered. Dallas probably can't afford to get into that waiting game. This is the year where we might have to blur the lines of tampering....whether it's Derozan, Lowry, Collins or any other top talent.

So are we convinced that Derozen and Lowry fit on a offense where Luka dominates the ball? Seems like Collins would be a better fit but yeah that what game like you said.....not trying to get into that and miss out on contributors.

FreshJive · 07-07-2021, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'm speaking hypothetically here but if the best deal you can get is KP for Collins would you trade him?

That is a great hypothetical. I think most people here would say yes in an instant, but it could easily be wrong.

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-07-2021, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

That is a great hypothetical. I think most people here would say yes in an instant, but it could easily be wrong.

I would do that, but I also want to see what Kidd does with him. Never smart to sell low.

I don't think there is anything really alarming with KP right now. He was a poor matchup against the Clippers. His shitty performances have no excuses, but I think he can be fixed with the right coach and a season not coming off an injury.

I mean really, if you look at how the playoffs played out, then honestly a prime "guy who we traded for" KP might have gotten is a ring. That's why it's something worth fixing.

turin · 07-07-2021, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So are we convinced that Derozen and Lowry fit on a offense where Luka dominates the ball? Seems like Collins would be a better fit but yeah that what game like you said.....not trying to get into that and miss out on contributors.

I like Derozen for staggered minutes, so he can both start and run 2nd team when Luka goes to the bench.

I'm only a fan of adding Collins IF we have another legitimate PG. I don't think he's worth max, but I would be okay with throwing $22-25m his direction for a shot. I don't think he's a long-term fit for ATL due to the salary he'll command.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

turin · 07-07-2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I like Derozen for staggered minutes, so he can both start and run 2nd team when Luka goes to the bench.

I'm only a fan of adding Collins IF we have another legitimate PG. I don't think he's worth max, but I would be okay with throwing $22-25m his direction for a shot. I don't think he's a long-term fit for ATL due to the salary he'll command.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I wonder if he'd take a 2-3 yr deal to play with Luka in order to max his stats for a longer term near max contract. That might not be a bad strategy for him if he doesn't mind the risk.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BPo001 · 07-07-2021, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I wonder if he'd take a 2-3 yr deal to play with Luka in order to max his stats for a longer term near max contract. That might not be a bad strategy for him if he doesn't mind the risk.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I think he is getting a max offer from someone. Whether ATL decides to match is a different question, but I think they do. Hard to let young talent like that just walk out the door for nothing. I could see a sign and trade deal if they find the right partner though.

JustJay · 07-07-2021, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I wonder if he'd take a 2-3 yr deal to play with Luka in order to max his stats for a longer term near max contract. That might not be a bad strategy for him if he doesn't mind the risk.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

He's about to be 32 years old. So by the time he played those 2-3 seasons he'd be 34-35. Most likely there wouldn't be any longer term deal after that.

Edit: Sorry, only saw DeRozan and thought you meant him nm. Collins turned down a non max offer from Atlanta so that's doubtful as well though.

SMC0007 · 07-07-2021, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

So are we convinced that Derozen and Lowry fit on a offense where Luka dominates the ball? Seems like Collins would be a better fit but yeah that what game like you said.....not trying to get into that and miss out on contributors.

I am sold on a veteran especially Derozan who can handle the ball and distribute. Luka wants to win more than he wants to win while he controls every aspect of the offense. We have seen him exhausted late in games too often while no one else can go get buckets...or distribute. I wouldn't complain about Collins, but he's not taking the load off Luka as much much as another capable mulit-tool guard. Mostly because he isn't the guy you can give the ball and have him get you something. Isn't he like assisted on 75% of his shots? I thought I read that...at least at one point it was the case.

Dtownsfinest · 07-07-2021, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshJive

That is a great hypothetical. I think most people here would say yes in an instant, but it could easily be wrong.

I was speaking from the perspective of the Hawks.....I think had they gotten a deal worth accepting they probably would've traded Collins.

As a Mavs fan..I think I may take Collins too. No injury concerns to my knowledge and younger.

Dtownsfinest · 07-07-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I wonder if he'd take a 2-3 yr deal to play with Luka in order to max his stats for a longer term near max contract. That might not be a bad strategy for him if he doesn't mind the risk.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

He'd be leaving a lot of money on the table. I just don't think you see agents allow their players to take these type of deals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turin

I like Derozen for staggered minutes, so he can both start and run 2nd team when Luka goes to the bench.

I'm only a fan of adding Collins IF we have another legitimate PG. I don't think he's worth max, but I would be okay with throwing $22-25m his direction for a shot. I don't think he's a long-term fit for ATL due to the salary he'll command.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I really do think the Hawks let him walk though I could be wrong. Just pure assumption on my part.

I like Derozen as a player.....I just don't see him as a Mav...I just don't see him wanting to come here but I admit this is based on the past regime....maybe players feel differently now with Nico and Kidd being here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I am sold on a veteran especially Derozan who can handle the ball and distribute. Luka wants to win more than he wants to win while he controls every aspect of the offense. We have seen him exhausted late in games too often while no one else can go get buckets...or distribute. I wouldn't complain about Collins, but he's not taking the load off Luka as much much as another capable mulit-tool guard. Mostly because he isn't the guy you can give the ball and have him get you something. Isn't he like assisted on 75% of his shots? I thought I read that...at least at one point it was the case.

I agree.......but are we convinced that this team can't get a John Collins and a point guard who can take the load off of Luka? I like the thought of building a team with Collins and his age then I Do the 30 year olds.