Rumor: Josh Howard to Toronto

[alby]

I would be in favor for any package not including Dirk/Kidd/JET for

1. Parker, Kapono, Bargnani
2. Parker, Kapono, Oneal
3. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Bargnani
4. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Oneal
5. Parker, Bargnani, Oneal
6. Kapono, Bargnani, Oneal

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Realgm.com is reporting it too as a rumor

I think it would be a good trade...Parker is a good player...but I really want Bargnani, because I think under the right conditions he can develop into a really good player and I think he would do that here and it would be a steal. HOPE IT HAPPENS

RealGM is reporting that HoopsWorld says it's a rumor. That is NOT the same thing as reporting the rumor themselves.

This is made up fiction.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I mean I guess we can disagree but I think it would be worth it. The guy is 23 and can get a lot better in the right system. Our offense would be sick and our D would well hopefully be good enough. I just wouldnt pass on Bargnani if we can get him with Oneal. Look at the Lakers with Bynum, Gasol, and Odom we would be able to match with them blow for blow when we get to the WCF ; ) and then in the Finals Boston just doesnt have the length other then KG and Perkins.

I think that is the thing: I highly doubt Dallas can get BOTH O'Neal and AB. I still don't know why the release is ready for O'Neal after getting him this offseason especially with that 2010 money lined up and protecting Bosh.
They're already hesitant about trading AB. Can someone clarify why Toronto would ship out O'Neal?

But back to your point, it's not good enough for me to have the offense be sick and the D just hoping to do enough.

[ty]

Originally Posted by alby

I would be in favor for any package not including Dirk/Kidd/JET for

1. Parker, Kapono, Bargnani
2. Parker, Kapono, Oneal
3. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Bargnani
4. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Oneal
5. Parker, Bargnani, Oneal
6. Kapono, Bargnani, Oneal

Heck yes.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

I would be in favor for any package not including Dirk/Kidd/JET for

1. Parker, Kapono, Bargnani
2. Parker, Kapono, Oneal
3. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Bargnani
4. Parker, Moon, Kapono, Oneal
5. Parker, Bargnani, Oneal
6. Kapono, Bargnani, Oneal

2 and 4 sound pretty dang good for me. If any of the deals are done I'll be open to it because Josh is leaving and we're getting talent in return, it's just a matter of does it pan out for us?

Has anyone noticed that that Raptors RealGM thread is up to 24 pages? Good lord..

[LonghornDub]

If we're talking about getting Kapono, then the trade is much more appealing. The original trade didn't mention him, and really would be sort of a terrible deal IMO.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If we're talking about getting Kapono, then the trade is much more appealing. The original trade didn't mention him, and really would be sort of a terrible deal IMO.

Yeah "report" just suggested those particulars but the salaries did not work that way on Toronto's end, they would need to add a piece like Moon or Kapono for it to work. The big parts of the trade were centered, the minor pieces just needed to be tinkered.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If we're talking about getting Kapono, then the trade is much more appealing. The original trade didn't mention him, and really would be sort of a terrible deal IMO.

The original trade sucks and doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't mean the two teams aren't talking about SOMETHING...

Personally, I'd love to see JO/Parker/Kapono for Howard/Diop/Bass(Stack?), but I'd probably have a heart attack out of sheer joy if that happened...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The original trade sucks and doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't mean the two teams aren't talking about SOMETHING...

Personally, I'd love to see JO/Parker/Kapono for Howard/Diop/Bass(Stack?), but I'd probably have a heart attack out of sheer joy if that happened...

JO/Damp
Dirk/Singleton/Williams
Wright/Kapono/George
Parker/Jet/Green
Kidd/JJB


Right?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well that rumor is dead. LOL Ingram shot down his own rumor...

The Dallas Mavericks
are more than eager to move small forward Josh Howard, so much so that their front office has been calling other teams floating trade scenarios. They've even gone so far, of late, as to call one team saying they have a deal with another. In this case, the Mavs have told at least one other team that they are on the verge of sending Howard to the Toronto Raptors, as we reported this morning. The only flaw in their master plan appears to be that they didn't make sure the Raptors were on board with it.

According to Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo, they're not.

"I think it is fair to say that we are not content with our current position and we would explore any and all avenues of improving our team," said Colangelo via email. "However, none of our core players are being shopped. I have no deals of significance that are close to being completed or imminent, but later today we will announce a small tax-related deal."

Colangelo went on to say, in a subsequent conversation, that the Raptors are more than pleased with where Andrea Bargnani is developmentally, and that he has no idea where the ongoing rumors surrounding a trade for the former top overall pick in the draft are coming from. He has no interest whatsoever in trading Bargnani, not the Mavericks or anyone else.

Colengelo admitted that he has had frequent conversations with the Mavericks about a lot of different scenarios - including potential three-team deals - but that he would not be willing to include Bargnani in any such deal.

So while it's clear that the Mavericks are anxious to move Josh Howard, it appears the talk of the Raptors being involved are exaggerated at best.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11152

[Dirkenstien]

"Colengelo admitted that he has had frequent conversations with the Mavericks about a lot of different scenarios - including potential three-team deals - but that he would not be willing to include Bargnani in any such deal."


That's fine with me. All I want from Toronto is Jermaine O'Neal and Parker. At least this alludes to us actually actively shopping Howard.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The original trade sucks and doesn't make much sense, but that doesn't mean the two teams aren't talking about SOMETHING...

You may be right. Colangelo said they have had many conversations with the Mavs FO.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by HackSpare

The Dallas Mavericks
are more than eager to move small forward Josh Howard, so much so that their front office has been calling other teams floating trade scenarios. They've even gone so far, of late, as to call one team saying they have a deal with another. In this case, the Mavs have told at least one other team that they are on the verge of sending Howard to the Toronto Raptors, as we reported this morning. The only flaw in their master plan appears to be that they didn't make sure the Raptors were on board with it.

That paragraph is so dumb, so poorly written, and such a fabrication it's just painful. Bill Ingram is a freaking hack, and if I had it my way this site would never link to his site again.

What garbage.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

"Colengelo admitted that he has had frequent conversations with the Mavericks about a lot of different scenarios - including potential three-team deals - but that he would not be willing to include Bargnani in any such deal."


That's fine with me. All I want from Toronto is Jermaine O'Neal and Parker. At least this alludes to us actually actively shopping Howard.

The fact that he is known as a really sharp GM and FO guy, it's the battle of who is going to be the genius our FO or theirs? Can we get them to take Josh and possibly Diop's deal or can they set Josh straight?

Stein's line a few weeks ago
http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=34472

both of these things combined does mean they are trying to get rid of him. Just find something decent!!!

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You know throwing JO out to Cuban and Donnie are going to make them take a HARD look at it. Someone is going to bite at that contract, that's a crapload of money coming off the books in the summer of 10. JO's injury concerns just worry the heck out of me. Damp becomes great insurance.

Problem is if you have Josh, Diop, Bass, Stack for JO and whatever...you're pretty much done dealing so you're going to need to be sure it's a deal you can run with for 1-2 years because most of the chips are gone at that point.

I have the same reservations about having no chips left. We would have a 1st rd. pick and JO's contract if he doesn't work out.

[dalmations202]

I have assumed that the deal ends up being JHo for JO really since the beginning. I'd bet some of the hang up is that Dallas wants Tor to include AB since to reach JO's contract they are going to have to send JHo, Stack and Diop. I doubt Tor wants to include him. Tor gets two starters with JHo and Diop and an expiring with Stack.
Tor doesn't do it without JHo and Diop, and Dal doesn't do it unless more is added - like Bargnani.

Dal gets an injury question ?

No, both teams will have to give in for this one to work, IMO.

[r00k]

This trade has been put down, I was a article from rotoworld saying there is no chance of happening. Which is a good thing for us Mavs fans, because the two original trades (JO for J-Ho and Damp or J-Ho for Bargs and Parker) are not very appealing on our side.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I have assumed that the deal ends up being JHo for JO really since the beginning. I'd bet some of the hang up is that Dallas wants Tor to include AB since to reach JO's contract they are going to have to send JHo, Stack and Diop. I doubt Tor wants to include him. Tor gets two starters with JHo and Diop and an expiring with Stack.
Tor doesn't do it without JHo and Diop, and Dal doesn't do it unless more is added - like Bargnani.

Dal gets an injury question ?

No, both teams will have to give in for this one to work, IMO.

I think you're close to the truth. Both Gm's trying to squeeze a little something extra out of the deal. Bottom line is we get 2 quality starters out of it and more flexibilityiop contract gone, O'neal's expiring, best shot at re-signing Parker. Leaves us thin at SF. If we could get Moon or Graham back that would be even better. I hope we get this done.It would improve our team.

[alby]

They are smart for not wanting to include Bargnani, Colangelo knows what he's doing.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by alby

They are smart for not wanting to include Bargnani, Colangelo knows what he's doing.

Exactly

[Dallas2009CHAMPS]

ahhh yes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raLlPmA_Raw

[mac222b]

Trying to figure out why Toronto does this. If they just let O'neal, Parker, Graham expire they're 11-14 mil under the cap this summer. Unless BC is in win now mode to placate Bosh and thinks J-Ho is better than anybody they could get on the open market. They'll go w/ Bosh, Bargnani, Howard and run more. Toronto is in a similar place to us in that they must almost feel like they need to make a move for the sake of making a move. i hope we aren't just being used to leverage another deal.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

JO/Damp
Dirk/Singleton/Williams
Wright/Kapono/George
Parker/Jet/Green
Kidd/JJB


Right?

That's what I was thinking... It's a win-win situation for everybody:


1) Jermaine O'Neal - we'd finally get a low-post threat to line up with Dirk and catch feeds from Kidd, not to mention that he'd allow Dampier to finally be what he is at this point in his career - an excellent defensive backup...

2) Anthony Parker - a salty vet who can play defense and hit the three... We'd finally have our starting 2-guard! I'd love to see him & Kidd frustrate offenses on the perimeter...

3) Jason Kapono - another offensive spark coming off the bench - you can never have too many 3-point shooters when JET goes cold...

4) Josh Howard - allows him to "find himself" on another team... Sometimes change is good and I think we owe it to Josh to let him find it while he's still in his "prime" - I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see a Devin-like turnaround in his game with a simple change of scenery...

5) Brandon Bass - has an opportunity to flourish outside of Dirk's shadow... Let's face it - his talent is wasted in Dallas as long as Dirk is still in uniform (and he might actually be better paired up with Bosh...)

6) DeSagana Diop - for some reason he just isn't clicking in Dallas anymore... He's shown flashes of a player who deserves full-MLE at certain points in his career - maybe shouldering more of a load in Toronto could get him back on track?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Trying to figure out why Toronto does this. If they just let O'neal, Parker, Graham expire they're 11-14 mil under the cap this summer. Unless BC is in win now mode to placate Bosh and thinks J-Ho is better than anybody they could get on the open market. They'll go w/ Bosh, Bargnani, Howard and run more. Toronto is in a similar place to us in that they must almost feel like they need to make a move for the sake of making a move. i hope we aren't just being used to leverage another deal.

I think Toronto is in a major need to stay competitive in the process towards 2010, otherwise Bosh is just going to leave. A hole for them is the swing position and Josh can fill that role. If they can have a decent player who can roll with Calderon then they have pieces that can maybe keep Bosh happy and stay in Toronto. I guess they see Howard as the best realistic option available.

I think they'll still be talking, they just need to alter the main points.

[fluid.forty.one]

from db.com

Bargnani For Josh? Note That Question Mark
Why The 'Absolute Sureness' Of Website 'Scoop' Gives Me Pause
By Mike Fisher -- DB.com


It was 11:59 p.m., March 29, 1994, and I had nailed it. The NFL story of the year. Jerry Jones was hiring Barry Switzer to be the next coach of the Cowboys and I had every detail exactly right. From Switzer’s contract specifics to the private home in Plano where Switzer was hiding out, waiting for Jimmy Johnson’s dust to clear. I had talked to all the right people. I was sure. Nailed it.
Right at the last deadline, I submitted the exclusive blockbuster to my paper, the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, and I insisted on the no-room-for-doubt headline:
“Cowboys To Hire Switzer.’’
My editor agreed. But 20 minutes later, the phone rang. The paper’s muckety-mucks decreed the header would be changed to:
“Cowboys To Hire Switzer?’’
Yeah. With a question mark. My response: “I will stake my job on you taking that question mark the hell off of there,’’ I yelled into the phone. “If the Cowboys don’t hire Switzer, I’ll resign.’’
Three points, as I think back on this:
1.Gawd did I talk my job (and myself) seriously.
2.As absolutely sure as I was. … what if somebody abruptly changed their mind overnight? Or what if I misunderstood? Or was too zealous? I promise you, from 11:59 to the next day, when a Valley Ranch press conference was announced, I did not sleep.
3.“Scoops’’ constructed of “absolute sureness’’ always give me pause. Even my own scoops.
Which brings me to the website report of a Mavs-Raptors trade involving Josh Howard and Andrea Bargnani/Anthony Parker. Almost as intriguing as the tale itself is the odd certainty – almost a “past-tense’’ certainty -- with which the report is written.
And I’m just not certain whether the certainty is a result of the website’s irrefutability or the website’s … well. … earnestness.
Hoopsworld leaves no room for gray area here: It says the Raptors “have been looking for a small forward,’’ that “Hoopsworld has learned,’’ that “a deal being discussed,’’ and that this is “an emerging story.’’
Powerful wording.
Because this story is unusual in so many ways, I’ve decided to take the unusual step of visiting with the author, Bill Ingram, in an attempt to get a feel for what has him so convinced. I do this with a full belief in Dallas’ hunger to upgrade, with a full understanding of the organization’s need to voice its support for Josh, and with full respect for anyone who is knocking on doors while chasing an important story.
(It is to Ingram’s credit that he’s willing to play along with me in what is essentially a barroom sports debate in print. I informed him that my response to his story might include the phrase, “Aw, ya mudda wears Army boots!’’ And Bill responded playfully, “Actually, my mom did wear Army boots as she was in the Air National Guard for years.’’)
“There are only one or two sources I trust enough to base our reputation, and this is one of them,’’ Ingram tells me, and in his chat he adds that the “front-office source texted me last night at midnight.’’ “It's a source we've known for a long time.’’
In his story, Ingram adds his personal analysis of those involved, calling Howard “troubled,’’ asserting that the Mavs “are clearly interested in seeing if Jason Kidd can help bring out’’ Bargnani’s potential as a starter in Dallas, and that Parker is a “prolific scorer’’ who would give “Dallas the starting two-guard they (sic) desperately need.’’
As Hoopsworld writes it, “A deal being discussed would send troubled forward Josh Howard to the Raptors in a deal that would land Andrea Bargnani and Anthony Parker in Dallas, with a combination that could involve DeSagana Diop and Antoine Wright headed back to Toronto.’’
I asked Ingram why he didn’t allow himself a bit of elbow room. As an example: In all my coverage of the organization’s “we’re-not-trading-core-players’’ stance, I’ve tried to make it clear that everything is subject to re-evaluation and change; if we learned anything from the dismissal of Avery and the acquisition of Kidd, we’ve learned that this is an organization that acknowledges fluidity and does so without fear.
You might say that’s CYA. I say that there is always margin for error. (Plus, I sleep better that way. I’m old. I need my sleep.)
There is especially margin for error when:
*There are some salary-dump aspects to this rumor that don’t add up. Why would Dallas want to salary-dump Josh?
*The rumor, as constructed, does not fit “at all to meet the rules,’’ according to DB.com capologist David Lord.
*We cannot for the life of us figure out how Bargnani steps in as a starter in Dallas.
*Anthony Parker, at age 33, has averaged 9.8 ppg for his career and 9.6 this season. That makes him about 50-percent shy of “prolific.’’
Is there any evidence to offset the “midnight text message’’? Yes, and Hoopsworld itself has it: Bill writes in his chat today, “I was told by an extremely credible source that it was being discussed by both teams. Colangelo told me this morning he isn't having that discussion, so perhaps it's Dallas floating it to try and stir up interest.’’
There’s a strong denial from the Toronto GM? And nobody from the Mavs organization ever commented on it? And now Bill is saying this is “perhaps’’ only the “floating’’ of a rumor?
Oh-oh.
“That,’’ Bill tells me, “doesn’t necessarily kill (the validity of) the story.’’
Well, no. It doesn’t kill the notion that Donnie Nelson is exploring three-ways, or that is Dallas fielding calls about its players, or that the Mavs might eventually make a swap. But didn’t we already know all that?
So no, the “denial’’ and the “perhaps’’ and the “floating’’ doesn’t necessarily “kill’’ the idea of Josh-for-Bargnani. But it would seem to wound it a bit. I humbly predict that Hoopsworld will soon write a follow-up that reflects the needed "elbow room,'' "gray area'' and "CYA.'' It won't be a retraction -- but it will be a tap on its own brakes.
As I say, “scoops’’ constructed of “absolute sureness’’ always give me pause. As that is always the case with my own stories, it is certainly the case with this one.

[DallasMavs412004]

Raptors just traded Hassan Adams to the clips for a future 2nd, do you think that move might have been made for a bigger trade, possibly the JHO trade?

[BGMaverick9]

Another Metroplex sports story dealing with unnamed sources...sigh.
Colangelo said he's talked with Dallas about different deals, it sounds like Dallas was asking for AB though. He didn't specify how recent the talks where, so who knows if we're just catching something that's been dead for a while or what.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Another Metroplex sports story dealing with unnamed sources...sigh.
Colangelo said he's talked with Dallas about different deals, it sounds like Dallas was asking for AB though. He didn't specify how recent the talks where, so who knows if we're just catching something that's been dead for a while or what.

Extremely true......and even if you hear something now -- who is to say that one or both of the parties aren't lying to you. I mean Teams aren't above lying when they are trying to complete a deal.

Then again, teams aren't above throwing names out there. Writers aren't above throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.

Truth is extremely hard to find.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DallasMavs412004

Raptors just traded Hassan Adams to the clips for a future 2nd, do you think that move might have been made for a bigger trade, possibly the JHO trade?

Collangelo said earlier today that they would be announcing a minor "salary trade".

[mac222b]

The Clips do have lots of injuries right now and a 2nd rd. pick could be used to sweeten a deal they have planned with some other team, indeed.

[BGMaverick9]

DANG IT!

I unfortunately just missed Stein on GAC, hopefully someone heard it all.
The part I heard was a laughable part and then a Stein opinion:
"Hoopsworld, whatever that is...."
Stein thinks it's time for Josh to be moved. If he can't really "work" with Kidd and Dirk, then it's time for a new change of scenery. Stein thinks though that the Mavs FO probably thinks it's too soon to make that move. They think they'll get a good offer for him either way so there is no rush to do it now. The deal will always be there.

UGH.

Now what Stein meant in terms of "working" with those guys, I have no clue because I missed the bulk of the interview.

[mac222b]

It doesn't matter if it's O'Neal or Bargnani- we should do it either way. Both are valuable assets.

[Thomas86]

The Mavs are gonna make sure the Harris for Kidd trade don't happen to them again, If the Mavs are really looking to trade Josh then hopefully It's not gonna to be a washed up player.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Heck I would trade for Kapono, Parker, Moon,or Bosh.
Anyone of those guys

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

"NOO IT'S NOT POSSIBLE BUT HE DID IT!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQXaULLaQSE

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by MaVs 41 BaLler

"NOO IT'S NOT POSSIBLE BUT HE DID IT!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQXaULLaQSE

Great clip
I love how he sounds like a WWF announcer"NOOO"

[Kidd Karma]

...and a couple hours later, the Clippers waive him. A team who dressed only 8 last night, waived their newest acquisition:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._hassan_adams/

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

...and a couple hours later, the Clippers waive him. A team who dressed only 8 last night, waived their newest acquisition:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._hassan_adams/

lmao
sucks to be him

[BGMaverick9]

What the hell? That's some day for Mr. Adams.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by MaVs 41 BaLler

lmao
sucks to be him

I guess in one way it does, but at the minimum cash NBA players are taking home....he supposedly had a 2 year guaranteed deal, if it weren't guaranteed, Raptors would have just cut him.