Alan Keys calls Cheaney's daughter a Sinner

[Lvubun1]

NEW YORK - Illinois Republican Senate candidate Alan Keyes (news - web
sites) labeled homosexuality "selfish hedonism" and said Vice
President Dick Cheney (news - web sites)'s lesbian daughter is a
sinner.

The former talk show host who has made two unsuccessful runs for the
White House made the comments Monday night in an interview with Sirius
OutQ, a satellite radio station that provides programming aimed at
gays and lesbians.

After saying homosexuality is "selfish hedonism," Keyes was asked if
that made Mary Cheney "a selfish hedonist."

"Of course she is," Keyes replied. "That goes by definition."

Liz Cheney, Mary's sister, refused to comment Wednesday during an
interview on CNN.

"I guess I'm surprised, frankly, that you would even repeat the quote,
and I'm not going to dignify it with a comment," she told the
interviewer.

The Log Cabin Republicans (news - web sites), a gay and lesbian
organization, denounced Keyes' remark.

"In a political career defined by failures, this is a new low for Alan
Keyes," executive director Patrick Guerriero said in a statement
Wednesday. "Attacking politician's children is beyond the pale, even
for an extremist like Alan Keyes."

In the days before the Republican National Convention, Dick Cheney
spoke at some length about the fact that Mary is a lesbian and his
view of gay relationships. His tacit support for states' rights on the
issue of same-sex marriage and less-than-ringing endorsement of
President Bush (news - web sites)'s push for a constitutional
amendment to ban gay unions drew criticism from several conservative
groups.


Keys is a kook, I would hope even Ill. Republicans give a serious look at Barrack Obama, why would you want this guy representing your state?

[LRB]

Lots of people have religious beliefs that living in a homosexual relationship is a sin. I don't see how keyes expressing his beliefs is any better or worse than you expressing yours Lvubun. If he was saying tha all gays should be lined up and shot or it should be legal to beat a homosexual or anything remotely close then I thing that it would be a bigger deal.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB
Lots of people have religious beliefs that living in a homosexual relationship is a sin. I don't see how keyes expressing his beliefs is any better or worse than you expressing yours Lvubun. If he was saying tha all gays should be lined up and shot or it should be legal to beat a homosexual or anything remotely close then I thing that it would be a bigger deal.

Luvbun isn't asking to be Senator.
I expect much more tolerance and acceptance from someone who would want to be my elected representitive.
For an intelligent person, Alan Keyes is not very smart.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

Luvbun isn't asking to be Senator.
I expect much more tolerance and acceptance from someone who would want to be my elected representitive.
For an intelligent person, Alan Keyes is not very smart.

So you expect tolerance, but don't want to give it. Hmmm.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

So you expect tolerance, but don't want to give it. Hmmm.

We should tolerate discrimination? We should tolerate an elected representitive who disparages homosexuals?
I don't think so....toleration of those types isn't toleration, it is facilitating. BIG difference.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

We should tolerate discrimination? We should tolerate an elected representitive who disparages homosexuals?
I don't think so....toleration of those types isn't toleration, it is facilitating. BIG difference.

Mavdog, would you call anyone a selfish hedonist?
Would it be ok for a politician to call anyone a selfish hedonist?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

We should tolerate discrimination? We should tolerate an elected representitive who disparages homosexuals?
I don't think so....toleration of those types isn't toleration, it is facilitating. BIG difference.

Keyes is not discriminating and more than you and arguably less. And yes, we should tolerate different peoples religious views so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. We hav no right not to be called a sinner or to have someone say that they view our activities as being sinful. So you instead preach intolerance of those who don't tolerate your views. So, so long as they believe according to the Gospel of Mavdog everything is OK. Otherwise they're just a bunch of sinners.

[Mavdog]

from the Trib:
----------------------------------------
Keyes takes jabs at his own party

By Jennifer Skalka and Ofelia Casillas. Tribune national correspondent Jill Zuckman contributed to this report
Tribune staff reporters

September 1, 2004

NEW YORK -- Madison Square Garden, home of many prizefights and hockey brawls, seems a fitting venue for Alan Keyes to be meeting his fellow Republicans.

The candidate for U.S. Senate has miffed many members of the Illinois delegation by spending more time on national talk shows than schmoozing with them.

He has been prickly with the media, chastising reporters for asking "inappropriate" questions.

As the Republican National Convention focused on unity Tuesday, Keyes lashed out at Vice President Dick Cheney's gay daughter.

And it was only the second day of the convention.

Keyes' first comments about Mary Cheney came during an interview Monday night on Sirius OutQ, a New York-based satellite station that provides 24-hour gay and lesbian programming.

After the candidate told the hosts that homosexuality is "selfish hedonism," he was asked whether Mary Cheney is a "selfish hedonist."

"Of course she is," Keyes replied. "That goes by definition. Of course she is."

On Tuesday, Keyes defended his remarks, adding that if his daughter were a lesbian, he would tell her she was committing a sin and should pray.

Thus far, the Republican hopeful's week has been defined by friction with his state party chairwoman and the Illinois delegation, who feel they are playing second fiddle to Keyes' media campaign. Some have also expressed concerns about Keyes' beliefs, calling them too far right for Illinois.

Keyes is challenging Democrat Barack Obama, who wowed his party's national convention with his keynote address last month.

Illinois Republican Party Chairwoman Judy Baar Topinka said the remarks about Cheney's daughter should not distract from key election issues.

"It's a pity that we have gotten away from the substance of the campaign and instead have gotten into personalities and things that are personal and name-calling," Topinka said. "Since this is amongst Republicans, it really needs to stop and get on course."

When informed of Keyes' comments about Mary Cheney, Bush/Cheney campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt offered a terse reply Tuesday.

"It was inappropriate," he said.

Similar response to remark

Campaigning in North Middleton Township, Pa., with President Bush, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) spoke to reporters about Republican chances to hold the Senate and said, "I think it's clear we lose Illinois."

Informed about Keyes' comments from the radio program, McCain said, "I don't think that's appropriate, but it's not the first inappropriate remark Mr. Keyes has made. He made a remark the other day that people who perform abortions are the same as terrorists. That's a very unique take on that issue and one that's very seldom espoused."

For the last two days, Keyes has frequented Radio Row, a hallway in Madison Square Garden occupied by talk-show hosts. Keyes, who had a radio show in the 1990s, appeared comfortable there, stopping for interviews when asked.

Two hosts with Sirius OutQ spoke with Keyes for four minutes Monday night in a nearby hallway. Their conversation centered on his opposition to same-sex marriage. Keyes said family is defined by having children.

"If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principle excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism," the senate candidate told hosts Michelangelo Signorile and Corey Johnson.

It was at this point that the hosts asked Keyes their question about Mary Cheney, getting a response.

An interviewer then said: "I don't think Dick Cheney would like to hear that about his daughter."

Replied Keyes: "Dick Cheney may or may not like to hear the truth, but it can be spoken."

When asked Tuesday evening to explain his statements about Mary Cheney, Keyes did not back down.

"I have said that if you are actively engaging in homosexual relations, those relations are about selfish hedonism," he said. "If my daughter were a lesbian, I'd look at her and say, `That is a relationship that is based on selfish hedonism.' I would also tell my daughter that it's a sin, and she needs to pray to the Lord God to help her to deal with that sin."

Rick Garcia, director of Equality Illinois, a non-partisan gay-rights group, said Keyes' views are not representative of the state's Republicans nor Democrats.

"Selfish hedonism? Has anyone seen Dr. Keyes look at a microphone or a television camera? That's hedonism," Garcia said. "The mainstream of the Illinois Republican Party is not behind Dr. Keyes."

Trying to build bridges

Keyes attempted to build bridges Tuesday with the Illinois delegation. But a breakfast gathering ended messily for him as he chastised reporters for not giving his candidacy a fair shake and left early.

Topinka had welcomed Keyes to a Times Square hotel for his first delegate breakfast. She said there was room under the Republican Party's tent for different beliefs, but added that a far-right candidate would not win in Illinois.

"Without social moderates this party cannot win," Topinka told a few reporters before she and Keyes shook hands for the cameras. "It has to be center-right, it can't be right-right."

When Topinka and Keyes greeted each other, the exchange was brief and awkward. It ended strangely, as Topinka ducked out, dashing behind a ficus plant.

"There you go," she said to Keyes. "You're on."

Reporters surrounded Keyes on his way out. When asked why he had not addressed the delegates, he promised it would not be the last time he would see them this week but that he had to tend to a schedule packed with media interviews. Pressed for a reason why he had not spent more time with his state party, Keyes responded angrily.

"The proper question would be: `What are you doing at this convention?' And that is a fact," he said.

Though her views differ with Keyes' on several social issues, Topinka said Tuesday morning that she would support him, saying, "He is on the ticket. We will support the ticket."

[sike]

my guess is that Alan Keyes would also say a heterosexual having continual sex outside the bounds of marriage is living a life of "selfish hedonism" as well. There is no hate inherently in these words…just a moral stance(albeit not a politically savvy move). I am so tired of people using the word discriminate and hate synonymously. To discriminate is to differentiate between two or more things/ideas nothing more…hate is not at all implied in discrimination. There is discrimination in his statement, but for someone to infer hatred in his words means that person is inappropriately bringing his exisiting presuppositional standard to the table and arguing in the realm unreasonable. Until the person admits and changes their argument/attack to address the fact or idea of the statement, it is foolish to discuss this.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: sike
my guess is that Alan Keyes would also say a heterosexual having continual sex outside the bounds of marriage is living a life of "selfish hedonism" as well. There is no hate inherently in these words…just a moral stance(albeit not a politically savvy move). I am so tired of people using the word discriminate and hate synonymously. To discriminate is to differentiate between two or more things/ideas nothing more…hate is not at all implied in discrimination. There is discrimination in his statement, but for someone to infer hatred in his words means that person is inappropriately bringing his exisiting presuppositional standard to the table and arguing in the realm unreasonable. Until the person admits and changes their argument/attack to address the fact or idea of the statement, it is foolish to discuss this.

frankly knowing Alan Keyes (from his writings) I should not have used the word "hate" relative to his comments. He really doesn't hate homosexuals. I'm not so sure he likes than very much, but no he does not hate them. mea culpa.

[sike]

mavdog: frankly knowing Alan Keyes (from his writings) I should not have used the word "hate" relative to his comments. He really doesn't hate homosexuals. I'm not so sure he likes than very much, but no he does not hate them. mea culpa.

good to hear.