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Old 09-16-2003, 02:54 AM   #1
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Consider a few things that football professionals look at in evaluating team performance:

The Cowboys didn't win; the Giants lost. If Bryant had simply kicked a low bouncing line drive to the 20 or so, we'd be talking about how the Cowboys blew a big lead in the 4th quarter.

Cundiff nailed 7 field goals...but what does that say ? It says he Cowboy offense wasn't efficient; that drives were stalled and there were way too many penalties and mistakes. 1 Offensive touchdown isn't encouraging...especially given the great field position provided by Zuriel Smith's runbacks in the first half. Simply put, the Cowboys can't control the ball on offense for large amounts of time or yardage.

The defense allowed NY to come from 16 down to 3 up...a 19 point swing. I do have to give props to a better pass rush, but c'mon a 19 point swing isn't exactly encouraging. And we got another 2nd half collapse...not the mark of a good team.

It was a sloppy, poorly played game by both sides....the final score would indicate that it was exciting...maybe that's all that counts to fans.

But if Bryant had made even a mediocre kickoff with 11 seconds left, we'd all be asking why the offense couldn't score and why the defense fell apart in the second half.

This won't cut it with the league's most difficult schedule coming up.

It's not about individual performances; it's about team performance and efficiency.
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Old 09-16-2003, 06:56 AM   #2
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

if if if if if if, You never know, Smith couldve ran it back. I guess you didnt see the miracle play that the Titans made to win a game, when the ball was kicked off to them with secs to go. The bottomline is, the Cowboys won the game, no ifs, ands, or buts about that. The Giants are no slouch team, as you must think with the it wont cut it because of the difficult schedule ahead comment. You predicted the Cowboys would go up and get beaten bad, but they won and that's that. They came through with a win, with some big plays from big time players.

And generally when its raining and such, the games do tend to be sloppy at times. The announcers made reference to it a few times in the game.

Also, in the game thread a few people commented on the Cowboys offense within the 30. The play calling drastically changed when we got the lead. Not sure why, but it obviously did.
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:58 AM   #3
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

This seems like the first exciting Cowboy game I have seen in a long time. I don't care if we kicked 7 FG's, we put up more points than we have since forever. I'm happy. I know there are a lot of negatives with this team. But this game was fun.

I suggest you take a big dose of fun and forget about the negatives for one week. God knows we will get to hear about them the rest of the season. Enjoy for now.
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:10 AM   #4
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

i agree with much of what you said OP..the cowboys offense failed to punch it in but once despite the defense getting them the ball in good field position early and often..
and yes, the defense did fall apart and the running game was poor..
plus, let's remember that with all the praise we gave carter, he still only put up a QB rating around 75 or so..

gotta punch it in for the TD more often. the cowboys could have put the game away. the giants should have put the game away...

but, the Win is nice
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:20 AM   #5
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: OutletPass
Consider a few things that football professionals look at in evaluating team performance:

The Cowboys didn't win; the Giants lost. If Bryant had simply kicked a low bouncing line drive to the 20 or so, we'd be talking about how the Cowboys blew a big lead in the 4th quarter.

Cundiff nailed 7 field goals...but what does that say ? It says he Cowboy offense wasn't efficient; that drives were stalled and there were way too many penalties and mistakes. 1 Offensive touchdown isn't encouraging...especially given the great field position provided by Zuriel Smith's runbacks in the first half. Simply put, the Cowboys can't control the ball on offense for large amounts of time or yardage.

The defense allowed NY to come from 16 down to 3 up...a 19 point swing. I do have to give props to a better pass rush, but c'mon a 19 point swing isn't exactly encouraging. And we got another 2nd half collapse...not the mark of a good team.

It was a sloppy, poorly played game by both sides....the final score would indicate that it was exciting...maybe that's all that counts to fans.

But if Bryant had made even a mediocre kickoff with 11 seconds left, we'd all be asking why the offense couldn't score and why the defense fell apart in the second half.

This won't cut it with the league's most difficult schedule coming up.

It's not about individual performances; it's about team performance and efficiency.

The Giants did screw up at the end. However, they still didn't just give the game away. Carter still has to make that 20 yard completion to Bryant after the bad kickoff. The Giants blitz was working great almost the entire second half, and, their defense was fairly rested, why didn't it work there? We, and at least I, might have said that it was the Cowboys that lost the game instead of the Giants winning if Bryant didn't kick so poorly. I'm not too familiar with Parcell's coaching, even though his reputation precedes him, but, I'm not sure that his conservative style at the end was very good for the offense. That's what I'd call coaching not to lose, instead of coaching to win.

I don't think Cundiff's kicking has anything to say about penalties. There were penalties, but his kicking is not related. And the Cowboys time of possession was nearly double the Giants.

A 19 point swing isn't encouraging, but a 16 point lead is, and the methodical way they built that lead is encouraging. I'm not sure that the Cowboys get those fg opportunities with Campo. They didn't do well scoring tds, but they did do well putting points on the board.

I do agree that the game was very sloppily played by both teams, and that kind of play will not work for either team in November.

I am glad they won, b/c that game ended terribly late.
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Old 09-16-2003, 08:50 AM   #6
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

How the teams got to OT is almost meaningless. Yes the Cowboys collapsed offensively and defensively in the 4th quarter but the Boys play in OT is what got me excited. We WHIPPED them in OT, we beat the Giants offensively and defensively and took the game from them.

Parcells is a conservative coach. He is going to take the field goal, build up the lead and make the other team beat us.
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Old 09-16-2003, 11:54 AM   #7
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

OP's comments are valid, however they are if's and actually the game is a win for Dallas and a loss for NY.

Every team makes mistakes all the time; this time the Giants seem to have made more relevant ones that the Cowboys. But it's part of the game. Dallas took advantage of it and this is necessary too for winning games.

Maybe the Giants will play better their next games, but maybe also the Cowboys. All teams are starting and making changes, adjustments and training.

I didn't watch the first game, but I can conclude, having read the posts about it, that the Cowboys played worse in that game, regardless of the rival.

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Old 09-16-2003, 12:01 PM   #8
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

sure, the cowboys very easily could have lost the game..but,they should alot of heart at times.

plus, the giants are a good team..many have picked them to go as far as the NFC championship or even the super bowl. to sneak out of there with a win on the road on MNF is huge.

yes, there are many questions to address..but, they will be easier to address after a win than after a loss.. a loss might have been devastating to a young team (even with Parcells steering the ship)
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:54 PM   #9
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

My post was meant to look at the game inside the game...and there was only one if....Bryant's kick. Which was, frankly, a fluke...a huge screw up.

The rest is fact. The Cowboys had drives stall at the 4, the 8, the 19, the 20, the 25, the 32 (and the last field goal came from the 35 and I won't call that a failed drive). Anyway that you cut it, that's 4 drives into the red zone without scoring a touchdown. No coach on earth is going to tell you that's efficient or productive. As Murph correctly pointed out, Quincy's rating was just above 75. And the defense did give up a 19 point swing; that's fact. No coach is going to be happy about that.

There were many good things. As MFFL said, the Cowboys controlled OT. And I thought that Bryant, Glenn, Whitten, Ellis and some others played very well. I thought that the pass rush was much improved (although going at an O-Line with 3 rookies). I'm not a fan of Quincy or Hutchinson, but I did think Quincy improved as the game went on. He finally started hiitiing receivers in stride rather than throwing behind them or over their heads. Big props to Zuriel Smith for putting the Giants in a hole for most of the first hal.

I tend to look for improvement in overall performance...that's the way they're going to start winning consistently...and I just didn't see that much. I really didn't think that the Giants were a slouch team, ..I just made the acknowledgement that everyone has made. The Cowboys do have the toughest schedule in the NFL this year.

I'm happy that they won and did enjoy it...it's a hell of a lot better than a loss...and if it puts them on the road to better things, then it will be a huge win. I simply don't think either team played that well. That's all.

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Old 09-16-2003, 03:52 PM   #10
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there. We can say what if all we want but that is just how football is. Cowboys won this game. After the 2nd quarter it was the Cowboys game to lose. They didn't. The offense didn't put up much points. But you know what? Quincy had over 300 yards passing so that tells you that these recievers were catching some balls. It just proves that none were in the end zone but Quincy is here to bring the ball down the field to get us in scoring range. Thats all. He isn't here to put up 2 or 3 touchdowns. Great game IMO. Sloppy? Somewhat but exciting nonetheless.
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:04 PM   #11
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there.
If you are talking about the play at the end of the 2nd quarter then you are a little confused. There was a penalty on the play and THAT'S what made the field goal a very difficult one.
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Old 09-16-2003, 04:16 PM   #12
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there.
If you are talking about the play at the end of the 2nd quarter then you are a little confused. There was a penalty on the play and THAT'S what made the field goal a very difficult one.

Without the penalty the clock isn't stopped. If no penalty is called or if Glenn runs out of boucne that is a easy 3 points.




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Old 09-16-2003, 04:17 PM   #13
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

BTW, people are claiming the D did what it did against the Giants because they had 3 rookie offensive lineman? Did they not have those same 3 offensive lineman when they went agains the Rams or did they just magically appear?
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:09 PM   #14
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

FFM...let me ask you about something that you posted, you've gotten me curious about what you mean:
Quote:
Quincy is here to bring the ball down the field to get us in scoring range. Thats all. He isn't here to put up 2 or 3 touchdowns.
I'm just wondering if you think this is Quincy's role in THIS offense.

That would seem to be an odd statement to make about any of the top QB's in the league...so I guess I'm just wondering if you think that Parcells has a different mindset about Quincy's role in THIS offense. Again, just wondering and discussing...not trying to pick a fight by any means.

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Old 09-16-2003, 05:25 PM   #15
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Quote:
Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there.
If you are talking about the play at the end of the 2nd quarter then you are a little confused. There was a penalty on the play and THAT'S what made the field goal a very difficult one.

Without the penalty the clock isn't stopped. If no penalty is called or if Glenn runs out of boucne that is a easy 3 points.

Now >I'M< confused. The penalty takes precedence over EVERYTHING else. The fact that Terry runs out of bounds or not does not matter.

???
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:26 PM   #16
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

For the record, and this is why I am not a big fan of the stat, the QB rating doesn't take QB rushing yardage, QB rushing touchdowns, sacks or fumbles into account. At a minimum, sacks and fumbles should count as incompletions; I would also say that a QB rushing touchdown should be included as well.

In reality, the QB rating is stricktly a passing rating.
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:31 PM   #17
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: Dooby
For the record, and this is why I am not a big fan of the stat, the QB rating doesn't take QB rushing yardage, QB rushing touchdowns, sacks or fumbles into account. At a minimum, sacks and fumbles should count as incompletions; I would also say that a QB rushing touchdown should be included as well.

In reality, the QB rating is stricktly a passing rating.
With the new wave of quarterbacks in the NFL the QB rating is becoming outdated. Not every QB is a strict pocket passer anymore so the old grading system doesn't fit as well.
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:36 PM   #18
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

well, last night quincy played better than his QB rating..but, that hasn't normally been the case.

last night, he was around a B+..not a C- to a C like his passing rating would indicate
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:44 PM   #19
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: Murphy3
well, last night quincy played better than his QB rating..but, that hasn't normally been the case.

last night, he was around a B+..not a C- to a C like his passing rating would indicate

Not to bring up a sore subject, but I originally became interested in this stat when I realized that Chutch was consistently playing far below his QB rating. Really (back on my rant against the stat), all those fumbles and all of those sacks and it didn't affect Hutch's QB rating at all!!! But if the QB had done the smart thing and thrown the ball away, it would have hurt his QB rating. That is ludicrous.
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Old 09-16-2003, 05:58 PM   #20
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

I agree with you there Dooby, the system needs a chance or something.
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Old 09-16-2003, 07:20 PM   #21
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: OutletPass
FFM...let me ask you about something that you posted, you've gotten me curious about what you mean:
Quote:
Quincy is here to bring the ball down the field to get us in scoring range. Thats all. He isn't here to put up 2 or 3 touchdowns.
I'm just wondering if you think this is Quincy's role in THIS offense.

That would seem to be an odd statement to make about any of the top QB's in the league...so I guess I'm just wondering if you think that Parcells has a different mindset about Quincy's role in THIS offense. Again, just wondering and discussing...not trying to pick a fight by any means.


Well this is what Parcell has been saying all alone. He wants Quincy to get the ball in scoring range. If you notice last night Quincy rarely threw it into the endzone. Parcell's was playing very conservative and careful and made sure nothing like a turnover would happen. I think we would all love for Quincy to throw some td's for us and get us down the field but right now I just want to see the guy consistently get us down the field.

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Old 09-16-2003, 07:22 PM   #22
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Quote:
Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there.
If you are talking about the play at the end of the 2nd quarter then you are a little confused. There was a penalty on the play and THAT'S what made the field goal a very difficult one.

Without the penalty the clock isn't stopped. If no penalty is called or if Glenn runs out of boucne that is a easy 3 points.

Now >I'M< confused. The penalty takes precedence over EVERYTHING else. The fact that Terry runs out of bounds or not does not matter.

???

I'm saying that if Glenn runs out of bounds we get another 3 points. I was just trying to use the what if factor.
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Old 09-17-2003, 12:28 AM   #23
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Thanks FFM..I thought that's what you were saying but I wanted to make sure. Leaves me wondering when and if Parcells will take the leash off. At this rate, without much of a running game, it won't be long before we see a lot of attack blitzing designed to keep Quincy confined to a 3 step drop, throwing ever shorter passes.

Another idle thought: I wonder how many GM's in the league would trade their starting QB for Quincy straight up...
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Old 09-17-2003, 12:37 AM   #24
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Quote:
Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
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Originally posted by: MFFL
Quote:
Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
Does anyone remember the play that we could've had a field goal but Terry Glenn was tackled and seconds ran off? What if Glenn runs out of bounce? Thats another 3 points there.
If you are talking about the play at the end of the 2nd quarter then you are a little confused. There was a penalty on the play and THAT'S what made the field goal a very difficult one.

Without the penalty the clock isn't stopped. If no penalty is called or if Glenn runs out of boucne that is a easy 3 points.

Now >I'M< confused. The penalty takes precedence over EVERYTHING else. The fact that Terry runs out of bounds or not does not matter.

???

I'm saying that if Glenn runs out of bounds we get another 3 points. I was just trying to use the what if factor.
I give up.

I've tried to convince you that there was NO WAY that Glenn's failure to run out of bounds meant a difference. He could have dropped the pass. He could have done what he did (catch the pass and fail to get out of bounds). He could have caught the pass and made it out of bounds. He could have caught the pass and broken a bunch of tackles and scored a touchdown. None of that matters because THERE WAS A PENALTY ON THE PLAY!

The play was dead. The play did not exist. The Cowboys repeated the down. Everything was wiped out because of the penalty. So it could NOT HAVE COST US 3 POINTS.

There isn't a what if on this play.
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Old 09-17-2003, 02:18 AM   #25
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

I agree with MFFL here, whatever happened on that particular play, means NOTHING because of the penalty on the COWBOYS. That's the bottomline...................
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Old 09-17-2003, 08:19 AM   #26
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Default When the euphoria dies done......

nope...quincy's play didn't cost the cowboys points..it could have, but it didn't. the o'line made sure of that
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Old 09-17-2003, 08:58 AM   #27
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies done......

IMO bill was playing it safe and settling for FG's. which was the right move.
Did you notice anytime Dallas got within the 40, he call mostly runs, or really short passes. I think he was trying to guarantee a FG instead of taking a chance on letting the drive die trying for a TD. i think after last week inconsistantsy, he wanted to be sure and get some points on the board.
late in the game he threw a lot more, and it looked pretty good, so i'd bet he'll slowly start to take more chances and go for the TD

also, if the running game was just a little better, then those drives would have conitinued even after he decides to play it safe inside FG range.
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Old 09-17-2003, 03:48 PM   #28
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Default When the euphoria dies down......

Quote:
Originally posted by: OutletPass
Thanks FFM..I thought that's what you were saying but I wanted to make sure. Leaves me wondering when and if Parcells will take the leash off. At this rate, without much of a running game, it won't be long before we see a lot of attack blitzing designed to keep Quincy confined to a 3 step drop, throwing ever shorter passes.

Another idle thought: I wonder how many GM's in the league would trade their starting QB for Quincy straight up...
I thought the leash would be off after our scoring drought in the second half but it didn't happen. Soon if we start to get within the 5 yard line Quincy is going to start to have to go into the endzone. Our running game just can't put us in there.


As far as a team trading there starting qb for Quincy I can't really think of any. I think some teams would trade for him just not a starting qb. Actually I can think of one. I see no reason why the Cardinals wouldn't trade Jeff Blake for Quincy or the Bears to trade Kordell for Quincy. Maybe even Jake the Snake for Quincy.

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Old 09-17-2003, 05:52 PM   #29
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Default RE: When the euphoria dies down......

Quincy is the 5th best passer(yards wise) in the NFL right now.
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