Offense vs. Defense - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

LoveMyMavs14 · 12-29-2003, 03:19 AM

Imagine you were talking to someone with whom the idea of basketball was completely foreign. How would you describe it to them? I would suppose something involving putting the ball in a hoop. I don't believe anyone would say "Well, it's when you try to stop these five guys from putting a ball in the hoop." That is not the game of basketball.

Now, this isn't just because I am a fan of the Mavericks, not known for their defense. I recently heard a Spurs fan say something along the lines of "I like watching gritty defense, that's beautiful basketball to me." Defense should be a way to stop the other team from scoring when you need to, not a way to play the game because you are completely inept offensively. I don't think many people can honestly say they would rather watch a game completely dominated by missed shots and EVERY "offensive" execution taking the full 24 seconds.

I don't agree with the decisions made by Mavericks sometimes to take a shot TOO early on the shotclock, not being patient, moving the ball, and waiting for a better look to become available to them or a teammate. But the game of basketball, in it's simplest, most elementary form, is putting the ball in the basket. Many people, also, should remember that basketball is A GAME. Enjoying the fast-paced, offensive showings we have often been treated to does not make anyone any less of a fan, and I DEFINATELY don't buy that "loving" low-scoring, walk-the-ball-up-court, 78-77 final games makes anyone any MORE of a fan.

Dallas needs to pick up their defense. But until someone can convince me that the basic principal of basketball was intended to be preventing the other team from scoring, not scoring yourself, you can take your ugly basketball and watch it somewhere else.

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Just my opinion, thought I'd share it. You may not agree with me, but this is how I feel, and this is why I love my Mavericks.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Kid California · 12-29-2003, 03:47 AM

Why wont you just say prevent the opposing team from putting the ball in the hoop as best you can, then you try to put the ball in the hoop yourself while they try to defend.......

Simon2 · 12-29-2003, 08:51 AM

Disagree. Before the installation of the 24 second shot clock, games would drag on with no or low scores. Players would just pass the ball around. That's why they put the shot clock. I don't think the objective of basketball is to just score. The objective is just to outscore the opponent. It doesn't matter if the team scores in the 100s or 80s. What matters most is at the end of the game, your score is higher than theirs.

I think basketball has to two parts. Putting the ball in the basket and stopping your opponent from putting the ball in your basket.

The concept is very simple really. If there were two high octane offenses on the court. Both can shoot the basketball but one team plays tough defense on one side. Who do you think will win? Most likely, it the one that plays tough defense. Why? The other team eventually will miss their shots becuase of the D. There are some nights when the shot will not go in. That's ok since its only human but there should never be any nights when the defense takes a night off. The defense should always be there.

I don't think the Mavs should lead the league in defense. I don't think they can do it with the coach's mentality. All, I'm asking is the Mavs to play better defense. No more stepping aside to let the offensive player get through. No more open jumpshots at the 3 point line. No more career games by opponents.

Its not one or the other. The team doesn't have to give up defense to play a great offense. In fact, I believe if the Mavs stopped the opponents more, the Mavs would score even more. Why? More fastbreaks.

Quote:

Originally posted by: LoveMyMavs14
Imagine you were talking to someone with whom the idea of basketball was completely foreign. How would you describe it to them? I would suppose something involving putting the ball in a hoop. I don't believe anyone would say "Well, it's when you try to stop these five guys from putting a ball in the hoop." That is not the game of basketball.

Now, this isn't just because I am a fan of the Mavericks, not known for their defense. I recently heard a Spurs fan say something along the lines of "I like watching gritty defense, that's beautiful basketball to me." Defense should be a way to stop the other team from scoring when you need to, not a way to play the game because you are completely inept offensively. I don't think many people can honestly say they would rather watch a game completely dominated by missed shots and EVERY "offensive" execution taking the full 24 seconds.

I don't agree with the decisions made by Mavericks sometimes to take a shot TOO early on the shotclock, not being patient, moving the ball, and waiting for a better look to become available to them or a teammate. But the game of basketball, in it's simplest, most elementary form, is putting the ball in the basket. Many people, also, should remember that basketball is A GAME. Enjoying the fast-paced, offensive showings we have often been treated to does not make anyone any less of a fan, and I DEFINATELY don't buy that "loving" low-scoring, walk-the-ball-up-court, 78-77 final games makes anyone any MORE of a fan.

Dallas needs to pick up their defense. But until someone can convince me that the basic principal of basketball was intended to be preventing the other team from scoring, not scoring yourself, you can take your ugly basketball and watch it somewhere else.

-----------------------------------------

Just my opinion, thought I'd share it. You may not agree with me, but this is how I feel, and this is why I love my Mavericks.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

SeriousSummer · 12-29-2003, 06:01 PM

Back in the late 40s when my Dad was in High School, he claims they won a game 8-7. His team got the center tip to start each quarter and scored.

The other team held the ball all quarter, scoring 3 times and getting fouled once (going 1-2 on the foul shots).

Sounds like Eastern Conference basketball.

I'd rather see a team play like the Mavs than like any JVG or his ilk coached team.

Chiwas · 12-29-2003, 07:18 PM

As usual in life, a balance is what Dallas should have.

I think it was thought that Harris would make the balance possible, but Nellie somehow turns Harris expertise in liabilitites or anti-defense. Just one example: when Harris ran the zone, it worked pretty well. When Nelson understood it and held it, it started to fail. Yes, the other teams learned to play against it, but the Mavs haven't adjusted it, for the only reason that Harris hasn't been in charge of it again since the 14-0 streak.

Five-ofan · 12-29-2003, 10:07 PM

Not real sure if it goes in his thread but I remember watching the Rockets Vs. Lakers on Christmas and hearing the announcer say well these rockets just can't score. It made me mad I wished I could say no they can score but not with JVG. They need to get the ball to Yao but they need to try to run first. Francis is one of the most dangerous players in the NBA in the open court he still isn't a traditional point(he is a pg because its what JVG puts on the lineup card just like Dirk is a center because its what Nellie puts on the Lineup Card) But because Jvg would rather play walk it up they don't do that. To those of you that want a coach like that(which I flip flop about every other day on whether I want a dif coach (Larry Bird)) is it really better to win 87-85 and lose 87-85 then it is to win 105-99 and lose (although less often) 110-105.

LordOfTheMavs · 12-30-2003, 09:39 AM

My college team is coached by Eddie Sutton - Head Disciple of the Late Great Mr. Iba. In the fourties Mr. Iba's teams were pretty dominate in college bball and won back-to-back NC's by perfecting the slow down game. From what I've heard it was physical slow and totally defense dominated game. Sutton still uses this style and the Cowboys still use every second of the shot clock they can. If you cant play D, it doesn't matter how great of and athelete or what kind of "skillz" you got, cause your butt willl ride the pine all night. It is strictly Man-to-Man and the word Zone is a dirty word used by coaches who's players don't know how to get tough and down and dirty on D.

It's fun to watch both styles throughout the college and pro bball season. It really shows how versatile a game bball can be, without even mentioning Street Ball and one-on-one and many different varitation of the game (like good-ole HORSE). I love watching all kinds of bball, but I have to say that since Cubes and Nellie came to town and Nash and Dirk showed up, I'm the biggest fan of the Mavs style.

Spurs Fan · 12-30-2003, 10:33 AM

I do love to watch a high-octane offensive game. It's incredibly fun to watch a run-and-gun style offense, such as the Mavs, especially the past couple of years. The thing that makes a game exciting to watch, however, is not necessarily the thing needed to win a series of games. As exciting as the Mavs are to watch (and as boring as some find the Spurs), there is absolutely nothing like (from a fans perspective) celebrating a championship by the team that you have cheered and cursed throughout the year.

As I am not a statistician, nor a historian of the game (I've only been watching since '86), I can't definitively assert that "offense wins games; defense wins championships". I can say, however, that during our championship runs in '99 and last year, I cheered just as loudly for a defensive stop as I did for a made basket. It's just a different kind of excitement.

I've never really understood the dynamics of what makes a person a fan of a given team. It's probably a mixture of geography, players personalities, sytle of coaching....well, I guess there's about a million more possible reasons. All I'm saying is that I personally do not find the Spurs style of play "boring", and conversely, I love to watch the Mavericks play.

I wonder what kind of fan that makes me?

Simon2 · 12-30-2003, 10:40 AM

I too love th high octance game. I love to see basket after basket after basket. That's on our side though. I don't want to see the other team doing a basket after basket after basket. Its nice to see shots go in but to me, its also nice seeing your team being tough down low. Seeing them take the ball away like men. I guess a blocked shot to me is also wonderful to see. It brings intimidation and fear into the opponents. Anyone remember when Phil J would unleash Pippen and Jordan in a full court press. It was like dobermans on a raw piece of meat. Seeing the opponent losng their mind bringing up the ball, that's beautiful to see.