My main concern - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chiwas · 10-21-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB

Quote:

Originally posted by: Max Power
When Magic Johnson walked onto the court for the 1st time there was no doubt that he was the leader. Same with Larry Bird, Doctor J, and Michael Jordan. Some players take longer to establish themselves as the leader but it still has to come from WITHIN.

Dirk's not the unquestioned leader of this team (yet) because he doesn't want to be. It has nothing to do with Finley, it is up to Dirk.

All of these were Americans and native English speakers. How about some leaders whoe were foreign born and nonnative English speakers and that started playing the NBA at age 19 while skipping the college ranks altogether.

Dirk has a fairly unique situation. He needs to come along in Leadership, but he also has some things that make it harder than other leadership prodigies in the past. BTW Tim Duncan was allowed to ease into leadership of the Spurs without really ill affects. Dirk's personality is closer to Tim's than to Bird's.

That doesn't mean I don't want to see him improve in leadership this year, just that I think that we need to have realistic expectations.

Yep, it's about personality and circumstances. Dirk's personality wasn't formed or born to be the top leader. Our thoughts are mixed -some confused- since years ago, cause, otherwise, Dirk's basketball outstanding performance is related to the need of a leadership at the same level. It's the same problem-issue in every company: the best worker-technician-engineer doesn't necessarily has to be a good manager, less yet, the best manager.

There is also the fact that Nellie hasn't develop Dirk on those abilities, if they could be learned, but to colaborate in a teamwork basis, which, in my opinion, it's more valuable in the way the Mavs has worked. But it's also a fact that the team needs the presence of a high personality on the court not only for playing but for leading. And it seems the team doesn't have him. (Maybe Walker??)

sike · 10-21-2003, 05:31 PM

Filthy, I disgree with your comments about age being the main factor...as was pointed out earlier on this thread, Magic, MJ, Bird...and many others came in the league as young men and were instant leaders..and in Bird's and Magic's teams there were some great established players. its not simply age....
It has more to do with reputation in the room and determination to lead....you may however be correct that Dirk was probably perceived as the kid of the room..but not anymore....he has earned those all star nods and the rest of the league knows it! Now that there is some new blood in the room(guys who were not here when he was the kid) he can take a step forward...all I've ever said is that it may take some direction form Nellie for Dirk to take the next step...but that has more to do with personality than age...he may never take the step, he may just be too fun loving and sweet....but if he does the entire league will feel the difference.

sike · 10-21-2003, 05:35 PM

Chiwas, you said what i was saying...but before I could reply....blast you!...But you are right![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Chiwas · 10-21-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sike
Chiwas, you said what i was saying...but before I could reply....blast you!...But you are right![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

You made me read again mine. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

ReDIRKulous · 10-21-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Having Finley say that he wants Dirk to be announced last during the pre-game ceremony is a small, pretty much meaningless thing... but I do think it would be a great gesture to let Dirk and the world know that he is without a doubt the best player on the MAvs and might help him move towards becoming the leader.

Having Finley say that makes Finley look like a Mom and Dirk look like a baby. Leaders don't need anyone to baby them to do anything. Kobe always had Shaq on his team but that never stopped him from developing to be a leader.

Are you saying Finley is a woman? lol Think of it as a gesture from a big brother to a little brother if that helps. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Kobe isn't the leader of the Lakers.

LRB · 10-21-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
Having Finley say that he wants Dirk to be announced last during the pre-game ceremony is a small, pretty much meaningless thing... but I do think it would be a great gesture to let Dirk and the world know that he is without a doubt the best player on the MAvs and might help him move towards becoming the leader.

Having Finley say that makes Finley look like a Mom and Dirk look like a baby. Leaders don't need anyone to baby them to do anything. Kobe always had Shaq on his team but that never stopped him from developing to be a leader.

I wouldn't give a rat's turd for Kobe's or Shaq's leadership abilities. Phil Jackson is the real leadership on that team.

But I would agree with you that Dirk shouldn't be babied.

sike · 10-21-2003, 05:52 PM

LRB, I agree that Shaq and Kobe can't lead....they just happen to be soooooo very good....oh how I hate them.....one day, they will come to their end...and I'll giggle...then cry...and then giggle again!

Hitman · 10-21-2003, 06:07 PM

I think a lot of the main point is missing from this thread. When I referred to having a true, clear cut "leader", I was speaking on terms of on the basketball court. Dirk needs to be the leader on the basketball court. He is the one player on the team that can not be expected to "scale back" his game for the good of the team. If fact, for the good of this team he needs to "Scale Up" his game to the highest possible level. It is up to the other players on this team to fit into him, not the other way around. He can not let the other's desire for shots stop him from taking over a ball game when he sees fit.

Of course, it makes it easier when your leader on the court is also your leader in the clubhouse. Sometimes that is not the case, sometimes it is. I have no question that Dirk is going to step up in both these ways this year. My concern was more with Don Nelson, and the fact that he can't ask Dirk to be a "decoy", as he did in the Sacramento series. He needs Dirk to play like the monster he was in most of the Portland series and game 7 vs. the Kings. That is what you get when Dirk plays with "Ruthless Aggression."

You get wins.

sike · 10-21-2003, 06:09 PM

and all GOD'S people said "amen and amen"

Murphy3 · 10-21-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Hitman
I think a lot of the main point is missing from this thread. When I referred to having a true, clear cut "leader", I was speaking on terms of on the basketball court. Dirk needs to be the leader on the basketball court. He is the one player on the team that can not be expected to "scale back" his game for the good of the team. If fact, for the good of this team he needs to "Scale Up" his game to the highest possible level. It is up to the other players on this team to fit into him, not the other way around. He can not let the other's desire for shots stop him from taking over a ball game when he sees fit.

Of course, it makes it easier when your leader on the court is also your leader in the clubhouse. Sometimes that is not the case, sometimes it is. I have no question that Dirk is going to step up in both these ways this year. My concern was more with Don Nelson, and the fact that he can't ask Dirk to be a "decoy", as he did in the Sacramento series. He needs Dirk to play like the monster he was in most of the Portland series and game 7 vs. the Kings. That is what you get when Dirk plays with "Ruthless Aggression."

You get wins.

Hitman, you're exactly right. There can be no clear cut leader on the court if Nellie does not allow it. I believe that Nellie will allow dirk to continue his development as the main man on the team. Does that mean that he averages 25 a game this season? Maybe not because of the volume of blowouts that this team will hand to opponents. But, in close games, I would hope that Nellie allows Dirk to get around 20 attempts per game. He is the best scoring option. He is the second or third biggest offensive mismatch in the NBA. For the good of the team now and in the future, this team must continue to develop into dirk's team much like it did the second half of last season when Dirk averaged way over 25 a game.

Dirk41= konsesjonen · 10-21-2003, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Quote:

Originally posted by: Hitman
I think a lot of the main point is missing from this thread. When I referred to having a true, clear cut "leader", I was speaking on terms of on the basketball court. Dirk needs to be the leader on the basketball court. He is the one player on the team that can not be expected to "scale back" his game for the good of the team. If fact, for the good of this team he needs to "Scale Up" his game to the highest possible level. It is up to the other players on this team to fit into him, not the other way around. He can not let the other's desire for shots stop him from taking over a ball game when he sees fit.

Of course, it makes it easier when your leader on the court is also your leader in the clubhouse. Sometimes that is not the case, sometimes it is. I have no question that Dirk is going to step up in both these ways this year. My concern was more with Don Nelson, and the fact that he can't ask Dirk to be a "decoy", as he did in the Sacramento series. He needs Dirk to play like the monster he was in most of the Portland series and game 7 vs. the Kings. That is what you get when Dirk plays with "Ruthless Aggression."

You get wins.

Hitman, you're exactly right. There can be no clear cut leader on the court if Nellie does not allow it. I believe that Nellie will allow dirk to continue his development as the main man on the team. Does that mean that he averages 25 a game this season? Maybe not because of the volume of blowouts that this team will hand to opponents. But, in close games, I would hope that Nellie allows Dirk to get around 20 attempts per game. He is the best scoring option. He is the second or third biggest offensive mismatch in the NBA. For the good of the team now and in the future, this team must continue to develop into dirk's team much like it did the second half of last season when Dirk averaged way over 25 a game.

My feelings exactly. I pray just b/c Walker is the coveted "point forward", Dirk will still be posted more.

Hitman · 01-03-2004, 08:05 AM

*Bump*

Lots of foreshadowing here.