Summer League Thread - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

haCORErdMav · 07-16-2012, 08:25 PM

Not trying to count my chickens before they hatch but if Dojo has played good enough to have trade value or even keep then all i can say is http://youtu.be/eYDkGJmSfy0

Bayliss · 07-16-2012, 08:41 PM

Well, I tell you one thing... DoJo's shot from 15+ feet is a lot more smooth than it was in the NBA. Hopefully it translates to the NBA. If he had a jumper the last two years, he would have been playing the last two years. That is the major thing holding him back.

So far it looks better.

(But with all that said, I'd rather the Mavs just "dump" to a lottery team for a future pick....)

OneLove22 · 07-16-2012, 08:49 PM

I'd like to give Dojo a chance. The guy can obviously play; he just needs that confidence on the big stage. We need to give him a proper opportunity to do so. This is his year to show us what he's made of.

pepe · 07-16-2012, 08:49 PM

DoJo value is at all time high...just at the right time.

BGMaverick9 · 07-16-2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamaljasonandjimmy

is dojo the only player playing in the summer league with a championship ring?

Pretty sure Norris Cole is playing in the summer league.

SMC0007 · 07-16-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, I tell you one thing... DoJo's shot from 15+ feet is a lot more smooth than it was in the NBA. Hopefully it translates to the NBA. If he had a jumper the last two years, he would have been playing the last two years. That is the major thing holding him back.

So far it looks better.

(But with all that said, I'd rather the Mavs just "dump" to a lottery team for a future pick....)

It is the major thing holding him back, the jumpshot. But, he has gotten to the rim on many many occasions and just NOT finished. If he would have been able to do that, he would have also logged more minutes.

I think whatever he has improved on should translate in real games . As far as his shot and finishing goes. I have thought he lacked confidence and if he can get over that hurdle we could have a role player. He sees the floor soo much better than Roddy, just needs to finish plays and hit open J's.

ocelot_ark · 07-16-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I think whatever he has improved on should translate in real games . As far as his shot and finishing goes. I have thought he lacked confidence and if he can get over that hurdle we could have a role player. He sees the floor soo much better than Roddy, just needs to finish plays and hit open J's.

Yeah, I don't get the disdain for the guy. For 1, he gets no consistent minutes. That's hard, regardless. Then he's a rookie/soph on a team full of supreme vets. I think it's obvious that his confidence just hasn't been there.

But when I watch him play like he's played the last 2 games, I see a contributor. He's got so much going for him, if he can just maintain his confidence into the season I could see him being an extremely valuable player. He's got the size to guard 2's and the quickness to guard a lot of 1's. Great athleticism. Just a lot to like. But it just comes down to confidence. Hope he can somehow manage to pull it all together.

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:08 AM

Jones is already ahead of the curve at PG vs Roddy. I'm pretty sure that was the case LAST year...probably even in their rookie years. Jones' jumper is getting a little bit better.

Crowder is a beast. I love him.

jthig32 · 07-17-2012, 12:11 AM

I just hope Jones plays well enough to convince someone to take him off our hands for nothing.

sike · 07-17-2012, 12:12 AM

Roddy + Over Hyped Rookie Season = Constant sike frustration

sike · 07-17-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I just hope Jones plays well enough to convince someone to take him off our hands for nothing.

Add Roddy to that list.

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I just hope Jones plays well enough to convince someone to take him off our hands for nothing.

I have absolutely no idea if this is happening, but I wonder if the balance is shifting towards Jones over Roddy.

To this point, Jones has been pretty much a major positive for the SL team. He basically IS the team on offense. He's initiating for others and creating for himself.

Again, I have no idea if that's happened (the shift), but it's food for thought. I've been incredibly down on Jones since he pretty much came in (for a multitude of reasons). What I've seen on the court is promising. Still need to see other things tho..

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I have absolutely no idea if this is happening, but I wonder if the balance is shifting towards Jones over Roddy.

To this point, Jones has been pretty much a major positive for the SL team. He basically IS the team on offense. He's initiating for others and creating for himself.

Again, I have no idea if that's happened (the shift), but it's food for thought. I've been incredibly down on Jones since he pretty much came in (for a multitude of reasons). What I've seen on the court is promising. Still need to see other things tho..

I'm hopeful, of course. But...this is not the first time Jones has looked good in the summer league. Maybe he didn't look *this good* before, but he definitely shone in prior appearances.

FINtastic · 07-17-2012, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Yeah, I don't get the disdain for the guy. For 1, he gets no consistent minutes. That's hard, regardless. Then he's a rookie/soph on a team full of supreme vets. I think it's obvious that his confidence just hasn't been there.

But when I watch him play like he's played the last 2 games, I see a contributor. He's got so much going for him, if he can just maintain his confidence into the season I could see him being an extremely valuable player. He's got the size to guard 2's and the quickness to guard a lot of 1's. Great athleticism. Just a lot to like. But it just comes down to confidence. Hope he can somehow manage to pull it all together.

I would agree about people being a little harsh on the guy. I've always said that if he can just figure out a way to put the ball in the basket, he'd be a nice piece of an NBA rotation given that he does a number of things well. Of course, that is a little easier said than done, and it might be his undoing.

One thing to note is that it seems like the examples that the anti-Summer League crowd trots out are those players have been in Summer League several times. Dojo probably should be looking pretty good in Summer League competition so the real hope is that this is a guy who has turned over a new leaf that will carry over to the regular season instead of a guy who at this point only knows how to dominate clueless rooks.

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm hopeful, of course. But...this is not the first time Jones has looked good in the summer league. Maybe he didn't look *this good* before, but he definitely shone in prior appearances.

Agreed. There's progression, but he's kind of a situation where he's screwed either way.

Bad: WTF? You've been here before and have NBA experience!!!!
Good: Want a cookie? You've been here before and have NBA experience!!

jthig32 · 07-17-2012, 12:24 AM

Jones made all tournament last year in SL, no?

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Jones made all tournament last year in SL, no?

His rookie year, yes. NO SL last year, due to the lockout.

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Agreed. There's progression, but he's kind of a situation where he's screwed either way.

Bad: WTF? You've been here before and have NBA experience!!!!
Good: Want a cookie? You've been here before and have NBA experience!!

Yeah, I know what you are saying. I really wish I had seen the games. (I caught a small part of the first one, only.) If I could identify progress with my eye, I'd feel good about that. The stats in and of themselves don't do much for me, because I know that he could post those stats whether he had improved any or not.

The big thing I want to see from him is a jumper. He showed in his first summer league that he wasn't at all afraid to drive the lane, and that he could finish fairly well to boot. If he can knock some down from outside, there is no reason he can't make a contribution like Barea did.

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Yeah, I know what you are saying. I really wish I had seen the games. (I caught a small part of the first one, only.) If I could identify progress with my eye, I'd feel good about that. The stats in and of themselves don't do much for me, because I know that he could post those stats whether he had improved any or not.

The big thing I want to see from him is a jumper. He showed in his first summer league that he wasn't at all afraid to drive the lane, and that he could finish fairly well to boot. If he can knock some down from outside, there is no reason he can't make a contribution like Barea did.

Stats are poppycock to me with the SL. I just want to see how you play and how you react to what is going on. He's got a borderline filthy euro-step with his approach to the basket. He's getting better at finishing at the rim. The first game didn't feel like a new Jones to me. It just looked like one who was maximizing his strength and feasting on deer in headlights competition. I saw a little more variety in tonight's game. I wouldn't say he's turned a corner with his jumper, but there is improvement.

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Stats are poppycock to me with the SL. I just want to see how you play and how you react to what is going on. He's got a borderline filthy euro-step with his approach to the basket. He's getting better at finishing at the rim. The first game didn't feel like a new Jones to me. It just looked like one who was maximizing his strength and feasting on deer in headlights competition. I saw a little more variety in tonight's game. I wouldn't say he's turned a corner with his jumper, but there is improvement.

Thanks for the update. I hope I can catch the rest of the games. No way to view the first two, is there?

BGMaverick9 · 07-17-2012, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Thanks for the update. I hope I can catch the rest of the games. No way to view the first two, is there?

You could pay that 4.99 the league is asking for and go back and watch the games.

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You could pay that 4.99 the league is asking for and go back and watch the games.

Oh, that's good to know. Thanks very much. I'll definitely do that.

Viewing schedule otherwise, for those who want to see it first, looks like (if I'm not mistaken):

Wed night / Thursday morning: 4am vs Hawks
Fri night 10:30 vs Hornets
Sat afternoon: 2pm vs Hornets replay
Sat night / Sun morning: 4am vs Spurs

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 10:29 PM

Tonight I'm carefully scouting Jones and Crowder in the Denver game. I thought Jones got off to a fairly poor start. He looked like a one-trick pony (drive the lane with reckless abandon), and that one trick wasn't working. He really warmed up as the half went on, though. That first half was a fine piece of work. Surprisingly, I thought he showed some decent PG instincts.

Crowder looks to me like he is NBA ready right now (for what it is he does). Idle question: Does he have the longest hair in the NBA?

sike · 07-17-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Crowder looks to me like he is NBA ready right now (for what it is he does). Idle question: Does he have the longest hair in the NBA?

Fill me in...what does he "does"?

chumdawg · 07-17-2012, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Fill me in...what does he "does"?

Scrap, hustle, defend, pick up garbage points, hit the occasional nice shot. You know...Shawn Marion 2.0.

Bayliss · 07-17-2012, 11:10 PM

He is a scrapper. I was also suprised that he can hit the outside shot alright. That is what is going to keep him in the league. He's smaller than Marion. But his game is reminiscent of it.

Before Najera got broken down by injuries..... Crowder plays similar to Najera only with a 20 foot jumpshot.

Bayliss · 07-17-2012, 11:13 PM

Oh and Brandon Lee has to step aside. Well that is... if he was still alive... because their is a new Crow in town.

The Crow is coming to an arena near you.

Budapest Maverick · 07-18-2012, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Jones is already ahead of the curve at PG vs Roddy. I'm pretty sure that was the case LAST year...probably even in their rookie years. Jones' jumper is getting a little bit better.

Crowder is a beast. I love him.

What's the problem with James BG? I saw you guys wasn't that high on him, and said he's not ready, but then i see the boxscore, and he had a nice double-double in only like, 26 minutes? He was fouling a lot? Or is it his defense? What makes you say he's not ready for a 3rd string role? Didn't see any of those games so far.

Also, if you don't mind, would you tell me about Crowder? My buddy swears he's never gonna be able to play SF in the NBA (i guess he played PF in college) but from what i saw of him, he doesn't look slow, he's athletic, and has a somewhat nice release, i imagine he could knock down those open jumpers occasionally, though i saw he's struggling with it when he's moving.

Budapest Maverick · 07-18-2012, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Tonight I'm carefully scouting Jones and Crowder in the Denver game. I thought Jones got off to a fairly poor start. He looked like a one-trick pony (drive the lane with reckless abandon), and that one trick wasn't working. He really warmed up as the half went on, though. That first half was a fine piece of work. Surprisingly, I thought he showed some decent PG instincts.

Crowder looks to me like he is NBA ready right now (for what it is he does). Idle question: Does he have the longest hair in the NBA?

I've just read that, do you also feel he'll be able to play the small forward position in the NBA? That would be awesome.

Fragism · 07-18-2012, 06:37 AM

Honestly it's not surprising that Jones shows decent PG instincts. The things that impressed me the most about him in the few minutes he got during his rookie season was his court vision and passing.

Underdog · 07-18-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Fill me in...what does he "does"?

I never followed him in college, but from what I saw in the first two SL games, Crowder does EVERYTHING - he's one of those "swiss army knife" players... His defense was physical, unafraid to back down, but smart enough not to draw fouls... He was surprisingly strong at getting position around the hoop and seems really crafty when it comes to grabbing rebounds - a little reminiscent of Rodman in that regard... Definitely a bit of a Matrix-lite, but he also nailed a three-pointer from about five feet behind the arc, so his shot is currently better than Marion's... He looks NBA-ready, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him as our backup SF right out of the gate - Carlisle's gonna love utilizing this guy.

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

What's the problem with James BG? I saw you guys wasn't that high on him, and said he's not ready, but then i see the boxscore, and he had a nice double-double in only like, 26 minutes? He was fouling a lot? Or is it his defense? What makes you say he's not ready for a 3rd string role? Didn't see any of those games so far.

Also, if you don't mind, would you tell me about Crowder? My buddy swears he's never gonna be able to play SF in the NBA (i guess he played PF in college) but from what i saw of him, he doesn't look slow, he's athletic, and has a somewhat nice release, i imagine he could knock down those open jumpers occasionally, though i saw he's struggling with it when he's moving.

James did look better in the second game versus the first game. It just looks like anytime he makes a good play, it gets negated by something that kind of looks like a bball IQ slip up. I guess for the process of being a 3rd stringer, you can handle that, but you have to wonder with the injury ?marks with the guys ahead of him, can you handle that or do you need someone who is a proven commodity?

You're pretty much on with what you've seen or thought with Crowder. I'm going to watch more of Crowder's tendencies on defense in today's game, but it seems like he's got the tools to work as a defensive 3. He'll have limitations to his game, but he's going to maximize his strengths and find ways to make those shine in the time he's on the floor.

sike · 07-18-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He looks NBA-ready, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him as our backup SF right out of the gate - Carlisle's gonna love utilizing this guy.

Woah. That is high...HIGH praise.

Especially since Carlisle hates rookies. I think it's personal.

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Woah. That is high...HIGH praise.

Especially since Carlisle hates rookies. I think it's personal.

Out of the 3 times I've heard Carlisle talk about Crowder (draft night, intro day and Game 1 of the SL), he's raved about him. You can tell he likes him most out of the 3 guys. I think he respects that Crowder has limitations but he's resourceful enough to do things to make him an asset. Guys that are willing to work and have what seems to be an endless supply of energy will get a coach's attention. I can't remember the exact reference he went with, but Carlisle said Crowder ranked in the top 2-3 for guys coming out in the draft in terms of guys that have a great motor or energy level.

From what I've seen, at the absolute worst he'll be a great practice guy because he's going to push guys and make them have to work. He's not going to back down in a situation either.

sike · 07-18-2012, 10:23 AM

Skin just said that Carlisle has said that Crowder will be on this roster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Out of the 3 times I've heard Carlisle talk about Crowder (draft night, intro day and Game 1 of the SL), he's raved about him. You can tell he likes him most out of the 3 guys. I think he respects that Crowder has limitations but he's resourceful enough to do things to make him an asset. Guys that are willing to work and have what seems to be an endless supply of energy will get a coach's attention. I can't remember the exact reference he went with, but Carlisle said Crowder ranked in the top 2-3 for guys coming out in the draft in terms of guys that have a great motor or energy level.

From what I've seen, at the absolute worst he'll be a great practice guy because he's going to push guys and make them have to work. He's not going to back down in a situation either.

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 10:26 AM

Found the line:

Carlisle said that Jae was one of the top 2-3 hardest playing guys that came out of the draft.

roadrunner · 07-18-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

Skin just said that Carlisle has said that Crowder will be on this roster.

Yes, he heavily implied that on the broadcast of one of the Mavs SL games. I don't remember the exact quote

BGMaverick9 · 07-18-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Yes, he heavily implied that on the broadcast of one of the Mavs SL games. I don't remember the exact quote

Coach Carlisle on Jae Crowder: "He's going to be on our team. We're pretty confident of that."

SMC0007 · 07-18-2012, 10:36 AM

I think with James it's gonna depend heavily on whether he can grasp the system RC implements. IF he can learn where to be with his pick setting and do the little things without getting lost, he could hang in there.

roadrunner · 07-18-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Coach Carlisle on Jae Crowder: "He's going to be on our team. We're pretty confident of that."

Thanks for posting the actual quote. I was taken back a little by such an early and strong proclamation by coach on a 2nd round player. Goes to show how enamored he is with Jae's game.