Orlando Postgame: Is this it? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:28 PM

That's the question...is this it, is this the long awaited resurgence of the Mavs we've been waiting to see all year? Did it finally click?

The score was closer than it needed to be, but I'm still taking it away as this was a VERY good game from Dallas, they had the right strategy and they were very effective on offense. The score is misleading.

For the game tonight, it seemed like that was the hardest 20 + game I've seen from Dirk in a while...maybe the eye was giving him a ton of trouble, it just seemed like he kept nailing tough jumper after jumper and had to work really hard for it. The guy is simply amazing.

This is the 3rd game in a row where Dallas has really had control and it might've faltered for a bit but they held up for the duration. I think that's impressive based on our history and the fact that it's a league where no leads are safe.

Great job on keeping Orlando from getting hot from behind the arc. Sure we dodged bullets in the 2nd half but we created doubt early by giving tough looks and they never could get in a rhythm.

It seems over this stretch that the rest of the cast has given Dirk the help he needs...whether it's scoring or the roles have actually been filled to their potential. Wright is defending and slashing, Bass is bring punch of the bench, Damp is holding his own pretty well, Kidd is being Kidd and Howard is bringing what we need.

Bob O: "The Ball is his prop, the court is his stage."
Jason F'n Kidd

So of course this comes at a critical time of the year. This run is coming right before the deadline. What do you do? I can see it being a tough sell to suggest making bigger moves right now as they're rolling but I still think you need to make moves.

Caseman · 02-02-2009, 09:33 PM

I don't think so. The Magic were atrocious behind the arc, when they are usually money there (I watched them take down the Flakers as such). If they hit half of their open shots, they probably win or make it closer than it was. I don't know what this team is, but I refuse to call them a contender until Donny does something to this roster.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

I don't think so. The Magic were atrocious behind the arc, when they are usually money there (I watched them take down the Flakers as such). If they hit half of their open shots, they probably win or make it closer than it was. I don't know what this team is, but I refuse to call them a contender until Donny does something to this roster.

Dallas made a commitment to not giving wide open 3s, it faltered in the 2nd half but early on they made the effort and the shots weren't so easy. Teams usually will collapse on Howard and that leaves Howard to find the open man and they have good enough shooters to where they'll clearly hit a high percentage of shots. It's different when they stick on you.

ghazi · 02-02-2009, 09:37 PM

No, I would not say "this is it". We're still only 3 games removed from a 24 point shallacking @ Boston. We need more evidence and more games before we can jump to a conclusion like that.

The Magic were cold from behind the arc, and Jameer did get a dislocated shoulder, but give credit where its due. The Mavs did a pretty good job defending perimeter shots sacrificing Howard going for a monster game instead.

We won this game tonight, the Magic didn't give it to us.

Clutch shots by Dirk down the stretch, barea with some big buckets, Kidd controlled the tempo, Terry/Howard were alright. Hollins gave us some decent stuff, although in foul trouble.

Only complaints about tonight are some braindead plays (Dirk's foul, Wright's travel) and the 3-4 and 1's given up down the stretch. Other than that, well played game by our beloved Mavs.

Caseman · 02-02-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Dallas made a commitment to not giving wide open 3s, it faltered in the 2nd half but early on they made the effort and the shots weren't so easy. Teams usually will collapse on Howard and that leaves Howard to find the open man and they have good enough shooters to where they'll clearly hit a high percentage of shots. It's different when they stick on you.

They were also assisted with the lights-out shooter Nelson getting injured.

I'm not dissing the Mavericks or trying to peepee on this parade, but I am just sick of raising my expectations and having them crushed. Unless Donnie changes my mind with a roster move, I don't think the Mavericks are a contender.

Usually Lurkin · 02-02-2009, 09:38 PM

The Mavs played well.
The Magic did get and miss a lot of open shots, though.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

No, I would not say "this is it". We're still only 3 games removed from a 24 point shallacking @ Boston. We need more evidence and more games before we can jump to a conclusion like that.

The Magic were cold from behind the arc, and Jameer did get a dislocated shoulder, but give credit where its due. The Mavs did a pretty good job defending perimeter shots sacrificing Howard going for a monster game instead.

We won this game tonight, the Magic didn't give it to us.

Clutch shots by Dirk down the stretch, barea with some big buckets, Kidd controlled the tempo, Terry/Howard were alright. Hollins gave us some decent stuff, although in foul trouble.

Only complaints about tonight are some braindead plays (Dirk's foul, Wright's travel) and the 3-4 and 1's given up down the stretch. Other than that, well played game by our beloved Mavs.

It's just an open-ended question.

It should be pretty friendly debate since it was a win.

I still won't buy the fact that Orlando was just cold tonight, I think Dallas deserves credit for that.

Windmill360 · 02-02-2009, 09:40 PM

This isn't it.

Caseman · 02-02-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's just an open-ended question.

It should be pretty friendly debate since it was a win.

I still won't buy the fact that Orlando was just cold tonight, I think Dallas deserves credit for that.

Why not? I don't know man. I saw a lot of open shots in the second half. They were clanking them or even air-balling them.

Robillion · 02-02-2009, 09:41 PM

I just want us to continue this current chemistry and keep rolling! This season is not over yet... look at how close the West actually is (again). I think we can beat any team if we keep playing the way we are. I just hope the teams has gotten that figured out by now.

A small trade (not involving Bass or any of the core) would be good at this point I think to fine tune our bench. That Felton addition for Diop+Stack would have been amazing. O well.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It's just an open-ended question.

It should be pretty friendly debate since it was a win.

I still won't buy the fact that Orlando was just cold tonight, I think Dallas deserves credit for that.

So what do you do now if the Mavs go to the trading deadline with Kidd being 7-0 before the trade deadline leading the play-calling?

Alykhan04 · 02-02-2009, 09:42 PM

Dirk is just a gangsta. He's hit more tough shots this year than ever before.

Flacolaco · 02-02-2009, 09:42 PM

I don't ask questions about road wins anymore

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:43 PM

For the record...as I said in the original post, I still think moves need to be made. But it's hard to scuff off the fact that you've seen a change in direction and that we've wanted to see some progression in consistency. I think we're starting to see it.

ghazi · 02-02-2009, 09:44 PM

Regarding the Magic being cold though, what about those fluke BS hook shots Howard made? What about Howard's good FT shooting

... what about J-Ho missing two wide open threes himself?

The Mavs too, could've played better. Terry missed some gimmes, some bad turnovers. etc etc.

It goes both ways IMO.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

For the record...as I said in the original post, I still think moves need to be made. But it's hard to scuff off the fact that you've seen a change in direction and that we've wanted to see some progression in consistency. I think we're starting to see it.

Who would you trade?

RareMilk · 02-02-2009, 09:45 PM

It makes me wonder if we can truly become Western Conference Champs again with the absence of a threatening center...Damp is great but compared to the Centers in the west...

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Why not? I don't know man. I saw a lot of open shots in the second half. They were clanking them or even air-balling them.

They were 1-7 or 1-8 at halftime...the job was already done and confidence was shaken by then. I said in the GDT, they dodged bullets but they're work early in the game paid off. Sure they had an off night but I'm giving Dallas credit for that, they had the right strategy tonight: Let Howard have his way and make sure you get them out of rhythm on 3 points and make them be contested shots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

So what do you do now if the Mavs go to the trading deadline with Kidd being 7-0 before the trade deadline leading the play-calling?

I would keep Kidd...?
Kidd was pretty much a lock for me to still be on this roster either way past the deadline. I haven't flip-flopped on that stance or anything.

Caseman · 02-02-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Who would you trade?

Stack + George/Bass/Wright/Whoever

or

Howard for someone who will give a damn.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Who would you trade?

Stack is an easy selection.
I think you can look at moving Bass as well...clearly he won't be moved alone, he'll be a complimentary piece. The only 3 people I realistically saw being moved are those 2 and Josh. I still think he's on the table.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They were 1-7 or 1-8 at halftime...the job was already done and confidence was shaken by then. I said in the GDT, they dodged bullets but they're work early in the game paid off. Sure they had an off night but I'm giving Dallas credit for that, they had the right strategy tonight: Let Howard have his way and make sure you get them out of rhythm on 3 points and make them be contested shots.

I would keep Kidd...?
Kidd was pretty much a lock for me to still be on this roster either way past the deadline. I haven't flip-flopped on that stance or anything.

Man, that is a tough one now. I just wish we could have had this whole first half of the season to see how it works with Kidd calling the plays and left to be free. I kinda think a winning streak before the trade deadline could cloud some judgments on what they planned to do a couple of weeks ago on trading Kidd and Howard?

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Stack + George/Bass/Wright/Whoever

or

Howard for someone who will give a damn.

I somewhat agree, but do we risk losing the Kidd contract advantage, and risk Kidd moving on next season? I am not sure if I would move Howard now that he is getting healthy. I just think if we go on this win streak there is going to be some stuff done under clouded judgement of a small sample of games with this new found freedom. What you think?

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Man, that is a tough one now. I just wish we could have had this whole first half of the season to see how it works with Kidd calling the plays and left to be free. I kinda think a winning streak before the trade deadline could cloud some judgments on what they planned to do a couple of weeks ago on trading Kidd and Howard?

That's the question I was saying at the end of the original post. Does it cloud the judgment of the FO?

Even before this 3-0 I thought the chances of Kidd getting dealt was less than 10%, I really don't see why they would get rid of him.

Yeah, it sucks it wasn't happening earlier...it's happening now though, that's what really matters. Would you rather see it now or not at all?

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Stack is an easy selection.
I think you can look at moving Bass as well...clearly he won't be moved alone, he'll be a complimentary piece. The only 3 people I realistically saw being moved are those 2 and Josh. I still think he's on the table.

Do we risk losing that Kidd contract trade bait, and risk losing him next season to a title contender?

wmbwinn · 02-02-2009, 09:52 PM

I wonder if they turned JKidd loose to run the offense as advertisement leading up to the trade deadline.

I would rather keep JKidd, but I wonder about the timing.

Bass and A. Wright have become very important role players for us. I hope that neither gets traded unless we're talking a blockbuster type move for a great center...

If we are going to trade JKidd, A. Wright, or Bass, then we better get serious quality coming back.

If we are trading George or Stackhouse... well what can you expect for that???

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I somewhat agree, but do we risk losing the Kidd contract advantage, and risk Kidd moving on next season? I am not sure if I would move Howard now that he is getting healthy. I just think if we go on this win streak there is going to be some stuff done under clouded judgement of a small sample of games with this new found freedom. What you think?

I think the biggest cloud is on Josh. He's the one you really don't have a clue on what will happen. The other pieces mentioned (other than Kidd) seemed pretty matter of fact or something along those lines.

wmbwinn · 02-02-2009, 09:54 PM

I know a lot of people want another scoring shooting guard.

But, to me, this team only gets blown up in a big trade if a great big man is available...

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's the question I was saying at the end of the original post. Does it cloud the judgment of the FO?

Even before this 3-0 I thought the chances of Kidd getting dealt was less than 10%, I really don't see why they would get rid of him.

Yeah, it sucks it wasn't happening earlier...it's happening now though, that's what really matters. Would you rather see it now or not at all?

I really dont have the answer to that, because before this 3-0 run, I wanted to see Kidd gone, so now I think I have clouded judgment as well on what to do with his contract. To me, his contract is the biggest factor to me, so I think I would still trade him. But, dont know if this could happen, but I wonder could we extend his contract now in order to assure him being here next season? I think losing him next season for nothing would be my biggest fear. In the end, it is a business, so it makes business sense to maximize his contract to get better now.

Caseman · 02-02-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I somewhat agree, but do we risk losing the Kidd contract advantage, and risk Kidd moving on next season? I am not sure if I would move Howard now that he is getting healthy. I just think if we go on this win streak there is going to be some stuff done under clouded judgement of a small sample of games with this new found freedom. What you think?

Howard is not a playoff player. If the Mavericks want to have a good push into the post-season, they better get someone else who is either a low-post scorer or another lights-out shooter. Howard is too inconsistent for Dirk to rely on. I seriously doubt Cuban will trade him though because he is too much of a fan with clouded judgement. Just sad what this team has become. Even though they won against a great team, I know they are still not a contender.

EDIT: And I doubt they move Kidd unless they completely rip off a team, which it sounds they tried to do with Portland.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

I wonder if they turned JKidd loose to run the offense as advertisement leading up to the trade deadline.

I would rather keep JKidd, but I wonder about the timing.

Bass and A. Wright have become very important role players for us. I hope that neither gets traded unless we're talking a blockbuster type move for a great center...

If we are going to trade JKidd, A. Wright, or Bass, then we better get serious quality coming back.

If we are trading George or Stackhouse... well what can you expect for that???

Stack can clearly get you a backup PG, that's been established.

I think the chances are slim for Wright getting moved, but he'd be part of a package, not alone. Same can be said for Bass, but I think he is definitely more likely to be moved vs Wright.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I really dont have the answer to that, because before this 3-0 run, I wanted to see Kidd gone, so now I think I have clouded judgment as well on what to do with his contract. To me, his contract is the biggest factor to me, so I think I would still trade him. But, dont know if this could happen, but I wonder could we extend his contract now in order to assure him being here next season? I think losing him next season for nothing would be my biggest fear. In the end, it is a business, so it makes business sense to maximize his contract to get better now.

I don't even think you can do extensions IN-season, what's done is done with contracts unless you're doing 10-day ones or LLE, those minor deals. I think it was Sefko on DMN who suggested plans might be in place to sign Kidd to a 1 year 12-15 million dollar deal...maybe 10-15, can't remember off the top of my head.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I don't even think you can do extensions IN-season, what's done is done with contracts unless you're doing 10-day ones or LLE, those minor deals. I think it was Sefko on DMN who suggested plans might be in place to sign Kidd to a 1 year 12-15 million dollar deal...maybe 10-15, can't remember off the top of my head.

I was going to harp on that as well. If we kept Kid after this season, dont you feel we would probably overpay Kidd to stay here? Which in turn goes against lowering salary? This is why I still think we have to do something with his contract, because if he goes, then we are left very short at the PG position, and that means we have limited options at the PG slot other than to overpay a no-name brand type player to start.

GermanDunk · 02-02-2009, 10:04 PM

Nice win. See you next gd. I´ll take a Nabb :-)

wmbwinn · 02-02-2009, 10:06 PM

Dampier plus Bass plus Hollins yielded 14 points, 14 rebounds, and 17 fouls...

But, since we played a strategy to play tight on the perimeter and leave Howard in the block alone with our center and no double team...

I'll take that.

But, that center position is the position where I would bust up the team in a big trade if a great center were available. Otherwise, I'd leave the team alone other than minor tweaks for role players (like another project center) (or another shooting guard).

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I was going to harp on that as well. If we kept Kid after this season, dont you feel we would probably overpay Kidd to stay here? Which in turn goes against lowering salary? This is why I still think we have to do something with his contract, because if he goes, then we are left very short at the PG position, and that means we have limited options at the PG slot other than to overpay a no-name brand type player to start.

I would think that playing with Dirk and this team is actually starting to gain some momentum and the coach has given me control for "me to be me" would be a check mark on the Let's Stay in Dallas side.

I guess it depends on your definition of overpaying...Kidd would be getting maybe 35-40% less than what he is making now.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

But, that center position is the position where I would bust up the team in a big trade if a great center were available. Otherwise, I'd leave the team alone other than minor tweaks for role players (like another project center) (or another shooting guard).

If it's a SG, I think it's an all or nothing thing. The guy has to be a clear and significant upgrade over what we've got. Carroll was labeled as a player we definitely could use because of his shooting and he's barely seen the court. You've got him, George, Green (maybe Stack) fight for the minutes that Jet, Josh and Wright get.

ghazi · 02-02-2009, 10:10 PM

WHat "great" centers are out there anyway?

Teams dont give up "great" centers.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I would think that playing with Dirk and this team is actually starting to gain some momentum and the coach has given me control for "me to be me" would be a check mark on the Let's Stay in Dallas side.

I guess it depends on your definition of overpaying...Kidd would be getting maybe 35-40% less than what he is making now.

Is Kidd worth 12 million a year over 4yrs? Reason I ask, is that I remember them saying he wants to play til he is 40. This is starting to sound like Nash and or Stackhouse all over again. I would think that Kidd would want to be in position to retire after his next contract. So, I think this has to be factored in when thinking about his current contract with a trade.

alby · 02-02-2009, 10:12 PM

Kidd owns.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Is Kidd worth 12 million a year over 4yrs? Reason I ask, is that I remember them saying he wants to play til he is 40. This is starting to sound like Nash and or Stackhouse all over again. I would think that Kidd would want to be in position to retire after his next contract. So, I think this has to be factored in when thinking about his current contract with a trade.

Well...I don't think that's an issue RIGHT NOW. It probably will be down the road, but the idea as I mentioned was for a one year deal.