Orlando Postgame: Is this it? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Well...I don't think that's an issue RIGHT NOW. It probably will be down the road, but the idea as I mentioned was for a one year deal.

Yeah, but I cant see Kidd signing for only one year at this point in his career. I think he can essentially hold us hostage for a 4yr deal knowing we have no other option at the PG slot. Thats my concern if we stand pat with his contract. An inflated contract for the next 4 yrs goes against everything we see Cuban doing to lower salary. So, I guess you would just hold out this season with Kidd's contract? Thats a tough one for me, but if I try to look at it from a business standpoint, I think I would have to move that contract for a couple of pieces.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, but I cant see Kidd signing for only one year at this point in his career. I think he can essentially hold us hostage for a 4yr deal knowing we have no other option at the PG slot. Thats my concern if we stand pat with his contract. An inflated contract for the next 4 yrs goes against everything we see Cuban doing to lower salary. So, I guess you would just hold out this season with Kidd's contract? Thats a tough one for me, but if I try to look at it from a business standpoint, I think I would have to move that contract for a couple of pieces.

That's probably why many people are suggesting the FO might actually be looking at PGs more than any other position for a trade. It's an insurance policy, bolsters the bench, or grooms a player...all of those work.

Kidd COULD do what you said, but I would be surprised if they went higher than 2 years.

Bayliss · 02-02-2009, 10:28 PM

I just don't really see anyone signing a 36 year old point guard to a long term deal. Even if that PG is Jason Kidd.

wmbwinn · 02-02-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

WHat "great" centers are out there anyway?

Teams dont give up "great" centers.

Exactly. And, so we don't do much at the trade deadline.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's probably why many people are suggesting the FO might actually be looking at PGs more than any other position for a trade. It's an insurance policy, bolsters the bench, or grooms a player...all of those work.

Kidd COULD do what you said, but I would be surprised if they went higher than 2 years.

Yeah, and maybe that Stack contract is where they will get there PG of the future? If so, who would you target?

twistaeffect2004 · 02-02-2009, 10:35 PM

Beating an Orlando team on the road is always a good thing. I don't care how cold they might've been. This was a good win against a very good team.

I'm not near ready to say that this win is the one that's gonna get the ball rolling though. This team just has been so inconsistent that it's absolutely impossible to tell. I'm just gonna take it one game at a time.

Dim499 · 02-02-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, and maybe that Stack contract is where they will get there PG of the future? If so, who would you target?

Beno Udrih?

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, and maybe that Stack contract is where they will get there PG of the future? If so, who would you target?

You're not going to get a PG of the future with Stack's deal alone, not unless you've completely robbed a team.

The obvious choice is the deal that was already mentioned by various sources local and national, Stack for Earl Watson.

I think you're honestly looking at a guy in Watson's range: very credible #2 and can carry the bench, can D up, and he can also move up and down the court pretty well (speed wise).

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

You're not going to get a PG of the future with Stack's deal alone, not unless you've completely robbed a team.

The obvious choice is the deal that was already mentioned by various sources local and national, Stack for Earl Watson.

I think you're honestly looking at a guy in Watson's range: very credible #2 and can carry the bench, can D up, and he can also move up and down the court pretty well (speed wise).

I like Watson, but I am not for sure if he could lead our team if Kidd is gone. I still like the Kirk Hinrich/Hughes trade for Kidd this season. I just love Kirk game and I think he would be the perfect fit with Dirk and Jet. Three very good shooters on the floor at times would be crazy for the defense. I am not as hign on Hughes, but I think he would be better than any other starting SG we have for the next season, plus after next season his contract comes off the books. We could use his expiring contract next season or let it come off the books. If we look at Stack contract, I would like Andre Miller or get a package deal with Memphis to get Mike Conley here.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dim499

Beno Udrih?

Yeah, what do you think about Andre Miller? I like him, and they say he may be on the market.

BGMaverick9 · 02-02-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Yeah, what do you think about Andre Miller? I like him, and they say he may be on the market.

Stack alone won't get Andre Miller.

I just don't see how you can sell how Kidd has taken control and then ship him out. Add to that, Kidd has been very very effective in these 3 games...and you ship him out. They have to be can't miss players if we're selling that now. Hinrich is nice, Hughes has a nice deal...but that's not enough for me.

There is going to be a major feeling out process when you change your point guard (we've seen that). You can't do that unless it's a can't miss move.

To me, the concern about Kidd leaving is just fear. I won't ship him out now for fear and money. If he was stinking, it's a different story, but he's not.

Silk Smoov · 02-02-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Stack alone won't get Andre Miller.

I just don't see how you can sell how Kidd has taken control and then ship him out. Add to that, Kidd has been very very effective in these 3 games...and you ship him out. They have to be can't miss players if we're selling that now. Hinrich is nice, Hughes has a nice deal...but that's not enough for me.

There is going to be a major feeling out process when you change your point guard (we've seen that). You can't do that unless it's a can't miss move.

To me, the concern about Kidd leaving is just fear. I won't ship him out now for fear and money. If he was stinking, it's a different story, but he's not.

Yeah, that is why I said from the business standpoint, you have to position yourself for the future. I just see Kidd holding us up for alot of money on an about 4yr deal to close out his career.

Nash13 · 02-02-2009, 11:30 PM

i remember a certain 03-04 team had a 9 game win streak before the deadline, and that didn't workout well. DONT BE FOOLED MARK!

LonghornDub · 02-02-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

I don't think so. The Magic were atrocious behind the arc, when they are usually money there (I watched them take down the Flakers as such). If they hit half of their open shots, they probably win or make it closer than it was. I don't know what this team is, but I refuse to call them a contender until Donny does something to this roster.

This is true, but you can't just assume that a team is going to make all of its open shots. The Mavs sure as hell don't, and they missed some tonight.

Dtownsfinest · 02-03-2009, 12:39 AM

Big time win for the Mavs. I still don't know what this Mavs team is at this point but I think it will be a little clearer on how they play next game. They've had these big wins and turn around and get their ass kicked by 30 points as if those wins were flukes. I look at tonight and clearly the Mavs won because the Magic live and die by the 3 and tonight they died going 3-20. But I can't really credit the Mavs for doing that because the majority of those were open. But the Mavs win and if they're going to make a push into the post season the time is now to show consistency atleast. Whether its consistently playing good or consistently playing bad. But atleast we'll know what this team is.

mac222b · 02-03-2009, 02:24 AM

This mini-turnaround allows us to be more selective and wait for the right deal. Except as regards Kidd. Obviously that decision is coming sooner. It would be nice to move J-Ho or Stack but now there isn't a sense of desperation and we might could get more for them in the offseason anyway. Fascinating how many scenarios we've entertained this season though. Maybe in absence of something better we trade Stack for Watson and send Watson and change to Charlotte for Felton in a sign and trade this summer. We seem to have a good relationship with their FO. And if Larry Brown fancies an undervalued player that fits his system he'll find a way. He's proven that. Presti, on the other hand, has one foot still in SA, not sure he's someone we can deal with. It's good to feel like we once again have the upper hand in these trade talks. If only we'd taken this approach in the Harris for Kidd saga...

Thomas86 · 02-03-2009, 02:59 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Carroll and Stackhouse where all traded at the deadline, Matt for Earl Watson and then Stackhouse + filler for Mike Miller...I wouldn't be surprised if these deals went down, Oh and I did read somewhere that the Mavs where looking for a Pg to be the successor to Jason Kidd like Beno Udrih like someone said in this thread.

eyedentifyme · 02-03-2009, 05:54 AM

The Mavs looked good. Maybe it's time to make a run like the Houston Rockets did last year when they won like 20+ games in a row.

TNT · 02-03-2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

The Mavs played well.
The Magic did get and miss a lot of open shots, though.

and dallas shot all the open shots? i do not think so.

Dallas was just to good for orlando.

And i hope that it was just a start

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-03-2009, 07:07 AM

Kidd for Baron Davis.

Sportstudi · 02-03-2009, 08:20 AM

Sometimes I'm asking myself if the writers in the NBA even watch the game before writing a story about it. They wrote that Nelson was fouled by Dampier when he injured his shoulder -> Link. Here it's clearly visible that he stepped on the ball and thus he hit the ground -> Link. That was definitely not a foul (he didn't even touch him), although the refs called it. Well, we won, thus I don't care anymore about the call, but it's sometimes weird to read those stories.

Murphy3 · 02-03-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

Beating an Orlando team on the road is always a good thing. I don't care how cold they might've been. This was a good win against a very good team.

I'm not near ready to say that this win is the one that's gonna get the ball rolling though. This team just has been so inconsistent that it's absolutely impossible to tell. I'm just gonna take it one game at a time.

I was waiting for someone to point out the obvious... rep for you. Any win against a team that had only 4 losses at home is a very good win (unless Dirk were to get hurt or somesuch). This is a great win for the Mavs. Perhaps it's part of the process of turning this thing around. We'll have to wait and see.

Underdog · 02-03-2009, 09:02 AM

Have we turned a corner? Hard to tell, but over the last 3 games we've averaged a 111-95 final score - that kind of play is hard to beat in this league...

Hopefully we can keep the momentum up (assuming a big trade doesn't go down...)

Usually Lurkin · 02-03-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT

and dallas shot all the open shots? i do not think so.

Dallas was just to good for orlando.

And i hope that it was just a start

All Dallas players are made out of gold on the inside. That is true. But that doesn't mean that Orlando wasn't playing like they only had 1 NBA player last night.

dude1394 · 02-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Sometimes I'm asking myself if the writers in the NBA even watch the game before writing a story about it. They wrote that Nelson was fouled by Dampier when he injured his shoulder -> Link. Here it's clearly visible that he stepped on the ball and thus he hit the ground -> Link. That was definitely not a foul (he didn't even touch him), although the refs called it. Well, we won, thus I don't care anymore about the call, but it's sometimes weird to read those stories.

My lord....did they actually call a foul on dampier for that!!!!! Unbelievable...I thought the refs were atrocious at the end of the 3rd/4th periods but that's ridiculous.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-03-2009, 09:14 AM

I have a feeling this is the team we're going to war with. Maybe a small trade involving Stack or something but no big trades. Just my gut feeling.

Underdog · 02-03-2009, 09:35 AM

Did anyone see Josh Howard in the 4th quarter of the game? Hell, I only remember seeing him twice in the second half... It feels like he's turning into a role player - you know, those guys you completely forget about until they do something on the court...

Could we have won the game last night without him? Probably not... (but we still would have won if a healthy Gerald Wallace or Mike Miller was in there instead of Josh - maybe even by more points...)

Speaking of points - Jason Kidd scored as many as Josh Howard...

(do you see where I'm going with this? TRADE JOSH HOWARD now while his value is perceptibly the highest it's been all season!!!)

jthig32 · 02-03-2009, 09:42 AM

I don't know what to think at this point. I finally took the plunge and posted my long "State of the Mavs" in which I admitted that I was ready for the team to be torn down. Now...who knows?

I'm fairly doubtful that simply giving Kidd the keys to the play calling is going to have this large of an impact long term..but who knows?

As far as how it affects things at the trade deadline...I think this removes any possibility of the Mavs trading Josh unless they get an incredible no brainer. So now I think they're back to trying to see what they can get for, say, Stack and maybe Bass.

Kidd was never going to be traded at the deadline because they want his cap space in 2010. There is almost no chance Kidd gets a four year deal because teams are keeping space open for 2010, and a four year deal for Kidd will trigger the special over-36 contract restrictions.

There's no way Cubes makes the short term gamble on the Devin deal and then hedges his bets by trading Kidd before this season's deadline. Just don't see that happening.

erdubya · 02-03-2009, 10:04 AM

I think the Mavs have upgraded themselves from "mediocre" to "decent".... eating crow and happy about it!

SMC0007 · 02-03-2009, 10:47 AM

I think this thread is ballsy, at least the question posed. As if you're trying to test Karma!?!

darkwitzki · 02-03-2009, 11:44 AM

Maybe we could get Tinsley for a bag of chips?

Tokey41 · 02-03-2009, 12:00 PM

Orlando is a team that lives and dies by the three, but they should have been smart enough to know it wasn't their night beyond the arc and given it to Dwight a little more. We're still lucky they missed all of those shots that usually go in for them, but at the end of the day I don't think a team like the Magic will make a huge splash in the playoffs relying so much on three pointers... unless they go in for four straight series against top teams.

ghazi · 02-03-2009, 12:03 PM

I still dont trust J-Ho.

LSMF · 02-03-2009, 12:04 PM

I liked the win but Im really starting to wonder about Green...

ghazi · 02-03-2009, 12:22 PM

Just not sure where Green can get minutes unless we take Barea out of the rotation and Terry plays some backup point.

48 PG minutes occupied by Kidd/Barea, Terry/J-Ho/Wright occupying the 96 2/3 minutes... and Bass/Dirk/Damp occupying the 96 4/5 minutes... with sprinkles of Singleton/Hollins here and there + George (which I'd prefer to be Green!)

SMC0007 · 02-03-2009, 12:41 PM

Maybe next year on Green....

fluid.forty.one · 02-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

I still dont trust J-Ho.

I've been very surprised with the amount of enthusiasm Howard has shown the past few games.

Dirkgreatness · 02-03-2009, 01:28 PM

I hope you guys that want Beno as our pg of the future are joking.

purplefrog · 02-03-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I've been very surprised with the amount of enthusiasm Howard has shown the past few games.

I have too, but I'm just not sure how long it will last. Josh's IQ will never be above that of a sea anemone so eventually he's going to be a liability imo.

FromDownTown! · 02-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

I've been very surprised with the amount of enthusiasm Howard has shown the past few games.

Me as well. I am a Josh fan and I don't mind ripping him when he is not playing well, however I have been happy with his play as of late. I hope he continues to get healthy and has a solid second half of the season WITH THE MAVS.