Mavs 118 Queens 100 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ghazi · 02-10-2009, 10:51 PM

Good job Mavs, going out there and taking care of business against a team you're supposed to beat. No flirting with danger this time, our beloved Mavs had control basically the whole way.

Nothing much to say, solid contributions from everyone... Wright, Howard Dirk, Damp, Kidd... and the bench guys.

From the worst defense in league to best defense in league now for our Mavs. I believe we can beat Boston without our beloved JET, but it'll take 4-5 guys bringing their A game, with a few unexpected contributions.

GO MAVS

tcat075 · 02-10-2009, 11:00 PM

Things that stood out to me?

Kidd is insane. 15 points (3/3 from 3PT not counting his half-court heave), 12 dimes, 7 boards and 4 steals. That's an amazing stat-line...

Howard is continuing to play in the flow of the offense, not forcing many shots (still some stepbacks but not as many), he's slashing, something I haven't seen him do in a long time.

And, of course, Antoine Wright proved he could sure bring some firepower with his steady defense. He's improved his 3PTer a lot since the beginning of the year, and he is a very good driver (obviously). If he can consistantly start doing that everynight, and scoring around 12-15, that would really help the Mavs.

Hmm...anything else? Mavs looked good making their half-time adjustments in the 3rd. Really demolished Sacramento there. Gerald continues to dominant scrubs, but that's what he's done all along. Carroll make contributions to this team, first time since the trade.

Oh, and Damp! how could I almost forget! He dominated down low...absolutely dominated.

The highlight reel from this game is going to be amazing...numerous putbacks, some crazy plays...

ghazi · 02-10-2009, 11:01 PM

Offensive efficiency: 120.9

Defensive efficiency: 98.4

So, our beloved Mavs played about as good a game you can ask for, although it was just the Queens.

LonghornDub · 02-10-2009, 11:03 PM

Shaq doesn't give a damn about the Sacramento Queens, and neither do I.

endrity · 02-10-2009, 11:06 PM

Carroll was terrible, he got a big chance tonight but unless he is spacing the floor consistently there is nothing he can do for this team until garbage time.

I still don't get the treatment for Green. He should be gettin all the minutes from Carroll and George as well. The boy knows how to play this game. And you can tell he has worked on his game. He is not just some freak of nature who can jump out of the gym and nothing else. He has learned how to move without the ball, he attacks the basket, he has very good dribbling, and he has also been active on defense. Honestly I don't know what more Carlisle wants out of him. It's time for Green to be in the rotation, especially now that Jet is out.

Great game by Howard and Wright especially, I was very pleased with their effort. They both attacked the basket very well, which the wings of a team with Dirk and Kidd should do all the time.

Barea was nice, but he still overdribbles at time, he has to make decisions quicker, but I can't be too mad at him. This is the first season he is getting consistent minutes.

Dirkadirkastan · 02-10-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

I still don't get the treatment for Green. He should be gettin all the minutes from Carroll and George as well. The boy knows how to play this game. And you can tell he has worked on his game. He is not just some freak of nature who can jump out of the gym and nothing else. He has learned how to move without the ball, he attacks the basket, he has very good dribbling, and he has also been active on defense. Honestly I don't know what more Carlisle wants out of him. It's time for Green to be in the rotation, especially now that Jet is out.

But he can dunk, which means he's worthless.

endrity · 02-10-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

But he can dunk, which means he's worthless.

I don't know about you, but I love dunking

Triple T's · 02-10-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Carroll was terrible, he got a big chance tonight but unless he is spacing the floor consistently there is nothing he can do for this team until garbage time.

I still don't get the treatment for Green. He should be gettin all the minutes from Carroll and George as well. The boy knows how to play this game. And you can tell he has worked on his game. He is not just some freak of nature who can jump out of the gym and nothing else. He has learned how to move without the ball, he attacks the basket, he has very good dribbling, and he has also been active on defense. Honestly I don't know what more Carlisle wants out of him. It's time for Green to be in the rotation, especially now that Jet is out.

Great game by Howard and Wright especially, I was very pleased with their effort. They both attacked the basket very well, which the wings of a team with Dirk and Kidd should do all the time.

Barea was nice, but he still overdribbles at time, he has to make decisions quicker, but I can't be too mad at him. This is the first season he is getting consistent minutes.

simple, he has all the ability in the world, but he's consistently in the wrong place at the wrong time (especially on defense)
From what i see, he and Hollins' footwork is atrocious. Which i really dont see how they could have not improved this far into the season.

EricaLubarsky · 02-10-2009, 11:19 PM

Kidd's +/- is absolutely ridiculous. I wont even say it, its so astronomical.

monty55555 · 02-10-2009, 11:19 PM

Great win!

Kidd was amazing. He was such a difference maker in this game. He controlled the game like a HOF PG. His numbers don't do him justice. He was great. He shot well and defended well. He directed the offense brilliantly.

Howard was great as well. I've been very impressed with him these past few games. He has become more aggressive in driving to the basket. His defense has picked up. He has improved his shot selection. And he has learned to play in the flow of the game. I'm loving the change I see in him.

Dirk was Dirk. He had a nice game. Sometimes, a 21/8 game from him is taken for granted by fans because we almost always expect that from him.

Wright was excellent tonight. He really stepped up big time in the absence of JET. He was driving hard to the basket, very active on defense, and even hit a few 3s, I think.

Damp was a beast in the minutes he was on the floor. He really rebounded well and that nasty dunk off of a Kidd lob was just nasty. Great to see him involved both in the offense and defense.

I was quite disappointed with Carroll. I don't know if its because he is hesitating, or because he is unfamiliar with the plays. He made a few baskets but I really was hoping to see more from him now that JET is injured. I hope he can find his rhythm soon because if he can hit those long jumpers, it will greatly help this team. Specially now that JET is injured.

Barea had an okay game. I think he tends to take too much time off the clock before deciding on what to do in some situations. I love his aggressiveness and toughness, but as I mentioned before, I would really be more impressed if he could improve on his decision making. There are a few instances when he tries to force the issue by driving to the basket in traffic and ignoring the other players around him.

Overall, great win for the Mavs.

RareMilk · 02-10-2009, 11:21 PM

I'm still waiting for Shawne William's time to shine...

monty55555 · 02-10-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Kidd's +/- is absolutely ridiculous. I wont even say it, its so astronomical.

Please allow me.

JKidd with a +39. Amazing.

endrity · 02-10-2009, 11:23 PM

I have noticed that Green gets lost sometimes on defense, turns his back on the play and loses his guy around the pick. But he is young man, never played in college, he has very little experience with organized 5on5 basketball. He actually tries to play defense, he hustles, tries to make plays, he understands the importance of defence.

Almost every young player has those problems. And it's not like Carroll was doing any better, and while George is better on defense, he is attrocious on offense.

As for the footwork, I don't know, I think he already has better footwork than Wright but I will try to see it more carefully next time he plays. When Green attacks the basket he knows what he is doing and how to move, I think.

Rick41 · 02-10-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

I don't know about you, but I love dunking

Oreo cookies?

AxdemxO · 02-10-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Oreo cookies?

Damm you, I was just about to go to sleep and now I have to grab a snack

Usually Lurkin · 02-11-2009, 12:17 AM

to juxtapose Kidd's +39, Carroll was a whopping -17. That's quite spectacular when your team as a whole is +18. Carroll on his own was a big 35 points worse than his own team tonight.

I'd give him a few games, though. You don't shoot 40% from 3 over multiple seasons on accident. He needs confidence, and the only way a shooter gets it is to make a few. Besides, we are in desperate need of a guaranteed weakside 3 ptr off the bench.

Windmill360 · 02-11-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Damm you, I was just about to go to sleep and now I have to grab a snack

Flacolaco · 02-11-2009, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360

I haven't looked yet, but I assume the filename on that is "diabetes.jpg"

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Carroll was terrible, he got a big chance tonight but unless he is spacing the floor consistently there is nothing he can do for this team until garbage time.

I still don't get the treatment for Green. He should be gettin all the minutes from Carroll and George as well. The boy knows how to play this game. And you can tell he has worked on his game. He is not just some freak of nature who can jump out of the gym and nothing else. He has learned how to move without the ball, he attacks the basket, he has very good dribbling, and he has also been active on defense. Honestly I don't know what more Carlisle wants out of him. It's time for Green to be in the rotation, especially now that Jet is out.

Great game by Howard and Wright especially, I was very pleased with their effort. They both attacked the basket very well, which the wings of a team with Dirk and Kidd should do all the time.

Barea was nice, but he still overdribbles at time, he has to make decisions quicker, but I can't be too mad at him. This is the first season he is getting consistent minutes.

I'm not sure that I've ever disagreed more with something you've posted than the bolded above. Gerald Green absolutely does not know how to play. He does not move without the ball well and he is still terrible defensively.

I'm still in favor of giving him more of a chance than he's gotten, but Green is still very, very raw.

There's no doubt Carroll was terrible tonight. But he's been a legitimate NBA player in this league for several years. He is absolutely a dead eye shooter and is not just horrible defensively. Carroll stands a much better chance of filling a meaningful role this season than Green does, and that is why he is getting a chance now.

And btw, Wright has phenomenal footwork and much, much better handles than Green. Don't sleep on Antoin Wright. If he develops anything resembling a consistent outside shot he'll be a legitimate starting two guard.

tsar · 02-11-2009, 12:32 AM

Hah, I love this:
"We had to remind ourselves of how those guys beat us bad out there. We had to take it personal," Wright said. "Coach came in here and said, 'Bleep, bleep, bleep, get out there and bleep. We came out and played harder."

nikeball · 02-11-2009, 12:34 AM

Windmill...

I guess you go to this website from time to time. http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/

I submitted a picture of a sandwich. I hope it makes a post.

endrity · 02-11-2009, 12:41 AM

Ok, we disagree on a lot of those things, but at least one thing you gotta admit. Green is not just an athletic freak, he has real moves, he knows how to attack his man, he has a good jumper already. He is by no means Darius Miles or Stromile Swift. One on one he is a very good player.

Today I thought I saw him move very well without the ball. I know he gets lost of defense, but he tries.

For the rest we agree to disagree I guess. But on the other hand it's not like there is much of a sample to analyze.

Windmill360 · 02-11-2009, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikeball

Windmill...

I guess you go to this website from time to time. http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/

I submitted a picture of a sandwich. I hope it makes a post.

no, but someone just showed me that site today.. and then all the talk about the oreos reminded me.

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Ok, we disagree on a lot of those things, but at least one thing you gotta admit. Green is not just an athletic freak, he has real moves, he knows how to attack his man, he has a good jumper already. He is by no means Darius Miles or Stromile Swift. One on one he is a very good player.

Today I thought I saw him move very well without the ball. I know he gets lost of defense, but he tries.

For the rest we agree to disagree I guess. But on the other hand it's not like there is much of a sample to analyze.

I think there's plenty sample size. Three different teams have given up on him. (Or two, not sure Boston necessarily gave up on him).

I agree, he has more to his game than athleticism. In fact his best asset is his jump shot because his ball handling holds back his slashing game.

Don't get me wrong, I've complained on this board about Green not getting more of a chance, mainly when Josh was out. But the idea that Green has taken huge leaps forward in the mental part of the game is just wrong, in my opinion.

And I think Carroll has enough skins on the wall (not as anything special, just a solid NBA player) to get to the chance to prove whether he can help this team.

Here's my biggest thing: I trust Carlisle. He has shown that he's willing to give guys a chance. He's shown he's not necessarily tied to his veterans. He obviously doesn't believe Green is ready to help this team on a nightly basis, and I trust his judgment on this.

ty · 02-11-2009, 12:50 AM

I want to see this type of attitude from Josh night in and night out.

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 12:53 AM

I echo Skin's sentiments tonight; I love seeing Josh post up. I've missed that part of his game.

And Bob's response to that was just bizarre: "What do you do with Damp when Josh posts up?". Um...move him to the other block..."coach"?

I love what Skin brings to the broadcast. I'm ready for him to take over for Bob next season.

alby · 02-11-2009, 12:56 AM

Jason Kidd is an amazing basketball player.

Solid game from Wright on offense tonight, in addition to his usual steady defensive showings.

chumdawg · 02-11-2009, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I echo Skin's sentiments tonight; I love seeing Josh post up. I've missed that part of his game.

And Bob's response to that was just bizarre: "What do you do with Damp when Josh posts up?". Um...move him to the other block..."coach"?

I love what Skin brings to the broadcast. I'm ready for him to take over for Bob next season.

I'm not following you here. You want Damp's man hanging around near Josh with an easy double team?

alby · 02-11-2009, 01:29 AM

Bob was talking about how posting up Howard and placing Dampier at the other block will allow Damp's man to easily double team Josh Howard. Then Bob didn't want to get into it even more, but he insinuated that it wouldn't be a good offensive set because Josh Howard does not know how to pass the basketball, let alone find the open man while being doubled.

chumdawg · 02-11-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

Bob was talking about how posting up Howard and placing Dampier at the other block will allow Damp's man to easily double team Josh Howard. Then Bob didn't want to get into it even more, but he insinuated that it wouldn't be a good offensive set because Josh Howard does not know how to pass the basketball, let alone find the open man while being doubled.

Exactly. If there's one thing better than FDIC insurance these days, it's that once Josh Howard gets the ball in the post, he WILL get off a shot attempt.

grndmstr_c · 02-11-2009, 02:23 AM

I'm going to come to Carroll's defense a little bit here. His shot wasn't falling, he was unsuccessful when he tried to shake his man off of picks, and there were a few plays that just didn't go his way out there, but I still felt like I saw a guy who did a decent job staying in front of his man on defense (and lets not forget that if there's one thing the Kings don't lack its offensively gifted 2/3s, so they present a challenge in that respect), and who did a pretty good job recovering to his man on rotations, as well. I'm more than willing to give him more chances to see if he can get his stroke going.

As for his +/-, a few qualifiers on the reliability of this particular sample. One is that 7 of those -17 came in the last 5 minutes of the game, and only meant the difference between a 25 point win and an 18 point win. A second thing to note is that the Kings had some stretches tonight where they were flinging fairly ill-advised three point attempts that were nonetheless going in. It's possible (likely) that Carroll had the misfortune of being out there while some of that was going on. Finally, it's been discussed that Kidd's +/- was pretty sick tonight. It's worth pointing out, then, that Carroll was +2 in the 6 or so minutes he played with Kidd, and -19 in the 12 minutes he played without him. Considering he wasn't playing backup pg, perhaps we should exercise some caution before getting carried away with this particular one-game sample.

At any rate, the bottom line on this topic is, I think, the same as the bottom line on the game as a whole: Kidd was the dominant force. It's really quite extraordinary that a guy who's neither a gifted scorer nor an explosive athlete could have that kind of impact.

Props to Wright for a very strong effort, and to Josh for showing some hustle and fire out there, too.

tcat075 · 02-11-2009, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

I have noticed that Green gets lost sometimes on defense, turns his back on the play and loses his guy around the pick. But he is young man, never played in college, he has very little experience with organized 5on5 basketball. He actually tries to play defense, he hustles, tries to make plays, he understands the importance of defence.

Almost every young player has those problems. And it's not like Carroll was doing any better, and while George is better on defense, he is attrocious on offense.

As for the footwork, I don't know, I think he already has better footwork than Wright but I will try to see it more carefully next time he plays. When Green attacks the basket he knows what he is doing and how to move, I think.

If you watch Mavs games, you'll realize its not just GG who will lose his guy around a pick

tcat075 · 02-11-2009, 08:07 AM

I know a couple people have mentioned this, but I really loved Josh and Wright posting up. Now, we can diss Josh for not passing and what not, but he was scoring when he posted up. Wright was as well.

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm not following you here. You want Damp's man hanging around near Josh with an easy double team?

On the the other side of the paint, around the other block is not "near Josh" when he's posting. It was a terrible point by Bob. He was basically insinuating that you can't post anyone on the block when you also have a center in the game.

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Exactly. If there's one thing better than FDIC insurance these days, it's that once Josh Howard gets the ball in the post, he WILL get off a shot attempt.

Josh had five assists last night, and over the course of the past two weeks has really been playing well within the offense.

Sportstudi · 02-11-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

Carroll was terrible, he got a big chance tonight but unless he is spacing the floor consistently there is nothing he can do for this team until garbage time.

I still don't get the treatment for Green. He should be gettin all the minutes from Carroll and George as well. The boy knows how to play this game. And you can tell he has worked on his game. He is not just some freak of nature who can jump out of the gym and nothing else. He has learned how to move without the ball, he attacks the basket, he has very good dribbling, and he has also been active on defense. Honestly I don't know what more Carlisle wants out of him. It's time for Green to be in the rotation, especially now that Jet is out.

Great game by Howard and Wright especially, I was very pleased with their effort. They both attacked the basket very well, which the wings of a team with Dirk and Kidd should do all the time.

Barea was nice, but he still overdribbles at time, he has to make decisions quicker, but I can't be too mad at him. This is the first season he is getting consistent minutes.

Me neither. He played very well in his limited time. He should get Caroll's and George's minutes. Of course, he still has his flaws, but yesterday he looked way better than earlier in the season. I don't get it why Carlisle let him in the doghouse.

jthig32 · 02-11-2009, 09:08 AM

I love little nuggets like this from Fish:

Quote:

DONUT 5: The 1,000,000th reason to love Dirk Nowitzki: He dinged up his knee in Saturday’s OT win over Chicago. You know, the one in which he scored 44 points, including 14 in the extra period. And he hasn’t been able to practice full-out in the last three days. And he didn’t go on with Babe or Dale or Doocy or Newy to tell them about it. The UberMan didn’t tell a soul.

I saw Dirk talking to Casey Smith during an early timeout and it was clear they were discussing something on Dirk that was not quite right.

horse900703 · 02-11-2009, 10:42 AM

nice win!!!!

SMC0007 · 02-11-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Me neither. He played very well in his limited time. He should get Caroll's and George's minutes. Of course, he still has his flaws, but yesterday he looked way better than earlier in the season. I don't get it why Carlisle let him in the doghouse.

Yeah, Green usually plays well with his limited minutes. The problem is sometimes in his extended minutes he hasn't been quite as impressive or more flaws show. I still think he has more to offer than Carroll, he has shot much better and the excuse of Carrolls comfort level shouldn't come into play becaue they are both new to this team and system. He has had many open shots that he was way off on compared to Green and he's supposed to be a dead eye shooter. The biggest upside of Green>Carroll is that he doesn't need to come off several screens to get his shot, he can create. Carroll needs to do more with his minutes and shot attempts and not foul every time his defender gets the ball in front of him if he is going to justify any of his minutes over Green.

dirno2000 · 02-11-2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

On the the other side of the paint, around the other block is not "near Josh" when he's posting. It was a terrible point by Bob. He was basically insinuating that you can't post anyone on the block when you also have a center in the game.

Also, Josh's go to move in the post is the spin to the baseline which would take him away from any help defender coming across the lane.