Radical Changes -- Win NOW or blow it up shortly

[dalmations202]

Congratulations on a successful trade.

Due to Dallas, Utah, and Indiana being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Dallas, Utah, and Indiana had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
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Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -27.4 ppg, -7.8 rpg, and -2.5 apg.
Incoming Players
Andrei Kirilenko
6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign)
11.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.8 minutes
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 28.7 minutes
Outgoing Players
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
6.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 24.4 minutes
Josh Howard
6-5 SG / SF from Wake Forrest
19.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 35.9 minutes
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
15.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 31.4 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes

Utah Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +19.4 ppg, +4.5 rpg, and +0.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Josh Howard
6-5 SG / SF from Wake Forrest
19.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 35.9 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
10.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Andrei Kirilenko
6-9 SF from Russia (Foreign)
11.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.8 minutes

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +8.0 ppg, +3.3 rpg, and +1.9 apg.
Incoming Players
Erick Dampier
6-11 C from Mississippi State
6.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 0.9 apg in 24.4 minutes
Jason Terry
6-2 PG from Arizona
15.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 3.2 apg in 31.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
13.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 2.2 apg in 28.7 minutes


Basically Dallas trades Terry and Damp for JO, and Stack and JHO for AK47 -- each of which I could make a case for, but the value is in the eye of the beholder (ie the GM's).

Dallas then resign Wright, Lue, Allen, JJB, and gets Diop. (with Bird's rights, vet min, and MLE)

Kidd, Lue, JJB
Wright, Sieblus
AK47, RTerry
Dirk, Bass, Allen
JO, Diop

Why AK47? Because I think him and Dirk are the perfect compliments, as far as game skills goes to each other. Dirk is a SF in the offense really. His game is that of a great shooter who can put it on the floor, or shoot over you. He is a PF defensively though, and a rebounder. AK47 is just the opposite, he can guard the SF and is an off the ball shot blocker. His offensive game is that he can slash a little and score lots inside with his length and quickness.

Why JO? JO can play out to 15 feet, and force teams to double him inside. He is a shot-blocker, and is athletic enough to be the last line of defense. He can play the PF with Dirk on the bench, and allow Diop to be the last line of defense as well.

Why Wright at the SG? Wright seemed to be able to play a little bit of D, he is the proper size, and could shoot the 3 in college anyway. He is young and fairly athletic.

Why the rest? Lue can still shoot the 3 when needed. Allen/Bass play energy games that they need at times. JJB is a jitterbug and cheap. Sieblus and Terry have something to prove and are young to develop.


If this team really thinks that they only have a short window anyway -- this trade would move some of the long contracts for JO's short one, and you would only have two more on AK47's. Would it work? Who knows, but it would be fun to watch and find out, IMO.

If it didn't work, JO and Kidd come off after next year, and you are lots closer to rebuilding.


Thoughts?

[alby]

dream, dalm, dream =]

[bgarrett]

^Agreed.^

But for the record Im down.

[chosen_one8976]

isnt stack and howard a little too much for ak47, it leaves us wide open at shooting guard and not much depth left, dont underestimate the power of the bench lol...id rather just keep the two and trade for JO with damp and terry, much more realistic

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by chosen_one8976

isnt stack and howard a little too much for ak47, it leaves us wide open at shooting guard and not much depth left, dont underestimate the power of the bench lol...id rather just keep the two and trade for JO with damp and terry, much more realistic

come playoff time, you need 7 or 8. Starters, Diop, Lue, and one more is all that is needed (RTerry?).

Kidd could create more than enough offense with JO, Dirk, Wright, and AK finishing.
Defensively, Paul and Deron would get theirs, but they could limit every where else.

Definitely a calculated risk though.

[Underdog]

Can Wright realistically start on a "championship-caliber" team?

Who's 6th man??? Bass won't get enough burn behind Dirk and the rest of the bench has little or no NBA experience...

At best, I see 60-65 wins in the regular season & a second-round exit with this lineup (unless you have a legitimate 6th man in that magic hat of yours?)

[ghazi]

I agree with the mindset of win now or blow it up shortly. and by shortly, I would say after this year unless we win it all.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Can Wright realistically start on a "championship-caliber" team?

Can he? yes. If Bruce Bowen can, then he can as well. Especially if your focus is on the frontcourt, and not the backcourt. Wright is better offensively than Bowen, but less defensively....either way you could get by.

Who's 6th man??? Bass won't get enough burn behind Dirk and the rest of the bench has little or no NBA experience...

6th man for what? Instant offense? Defense? 3pt Shooter?

Whether you bring in Diop as a defender and sit Dirk or JO, your offensive pecking order just changes one place. Whether it is Bass for energy and offense, or Lue to break the zone. It is still just a pecking order on offense, and you bring in the guy with the skillset that gives you the best chance to win that day.

I know Nellie, and many teams now, want a instant offense 6th man, but it is not a necessity.

At best, I see 60-65 wins in the regular season & a second-round exit with this lineup (unless you have a legitimate 6th man in that magic hat of yours?)

60-65 wins and a second round exit -- still better than 50+ wins and a first round exit.

Everyone has their own opinion, and I respect that. I just think this lineup might have a chance against LA next year with Bynum (7'), Gasol (7'), and Odom (6'10") next year.......with Dirk, JO, and AK47 who are basically that same size.

Other trades might work, or might not. This is just one that I was pondering today.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Can he? yes. If Bruce Bowen can, then he can as well. Especially if your focus is on the frontcourt, and not the backcourt. Wright is better offensively than Bowen, but less defensively....either way you could get by.

I guess I haven't seen enough of Wright to consider him better than Bruce Bowen at anything...

Originally Posted by dalmations202

6th man for what? Instant offense? Defense? 3pt Shooter?
Whether you bring in Diop as a defender and sit Dirk or JO, your offensive pecking order just changes one place. Whether it is Bass for energy and offense, or Lue to break the zone. It is still just a pecking order on offense, and you bring in the guy with the skillset that gives you the best chance to win that day.

I know Nellie, and many teams now, want a instant offense 6th man, but it is not a necessity.

Our 6th man could be any of the above - I just want someone who brings a *spark* off the bench (and plays the most minutes...)

We'd probably use Diop in tandem with JO (depending on the match-up), so he wouldn't really be our 6th man - he'd be part of a two-headed beast...

Bass does bring energy off the bench, but I wonder if he'd get enough minutes to be a 6th man... I don't see him getting time at the 5 with JO & Diop in the lineup, so maybe Carlisle would play him some at the 3? (although I don't want him defending most 3's out there...)

Also - Lue? Does he have anything left in the tank? (who knows - it's not like Avery gave him chance!)

Originally Posted by dalmations202

60-65 wins and a second round exit -- still better than 50+ wins and a first round exit.

I thought this thread was WIN NOW or blow it up?

[ty]

Dream for sure. I would definitely do it though. It's a nice shake up, while still bringing in nice talent.

The most interesting thing I noticed about the trade that you didn't really address is Kidd/AK47.

Just think about the possibilities with that combo...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by ty

Dream for sure. I would definitely do it though. It's a nice shake up, while still bringing in nice talent.

The most interesting thing I noticed about the trade that you didn't really address is Kidd/AK47.

Just think about the possibilities with that combo...

The above trade aside, I'm ALL in favor of bringing AK-47 here...

Hell, let's hop into a time machine and travel back to when we were talking about AK-47 & Maggette being the missing pieces to this team (well I was, as well as a few others)... I think they'd be even more useful now because we have Kidd's passing game instead of the redundancy of both Harris & Maggette slashing with nobody feeding...

I like the idea of going after a big, but I don't really see anyone available who is worth giving up what we'd have to give up (and Damp on a bad day is still better than J.O. in a suit)... Plus, I'm curious as to whether Carlisle & Kidd can figure out a way to get Damp & Diop some points in the paint - I don't think we need a star center if we can at least keep teams honest at the 5 (especially with a slasher like Maggette going to the hoop, AK-47's & Kidd's outside shooting, and some unguardable German guy named "Dirk" playing at power forward...)

[chosen_one8976]

are you kiddin me if you even want to make the playoffs with anything, i mean ANYTHING, a team needs more than seven guys...it'd be pheonix all over again, but with less talent and and older players, you have to rest your players and keep their minutes under 35 a game or they even make it to the playoffs, expect a first round exit...and when you do take your starting five out who's goin to keep us in the game, terry?, seibutis?, lue?, youve got to be kiddin me...plus not to rag on wright, he does have some talent, but so does mo ager and look where he ended up

gettin rid of what are four players of our playoff rotation for two, has a huge impact, no bench=no team

a sixth man is more important than you think too, havin someone who can come in and produce if a player is havin an off night because not everyone can be on every night and with only five guys or even six or seven is NOT enough to compete, once the starters are out were done unless terry and seibutis just become allstars, and diop becomes kareem....not likely

come on people dont just watch and day dream, actually pay attention to the beautiful game of basketball

[alby]

^ you only need 7-8 in the playoffs.

[ghazi]

I think it's nice to have 1-2 "aberration" guys as BIll Simmons calls them coming off the bench. Guys who normally don't have big games, but are solid contributors who can have a monster game on any given night. Leon Powe's game 2 finals performance is an example of how aberration guy performances, although few and far between, can be the difference between winning a title and not winning a title... although the series isn't over yet.

[wmbwinn]

I love the proposed trade, especially if we really do get Diop back.

But, I doubt that the other two teams would do this trade...

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I thought this thread was WIN NOW or blow it up?

Any 60-65 win team has a shot at winning it all. I think the only thing you can ask for is a shot.
__________________

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

But, I doubt that the other two teams would do this trade...

Here is why I think it might be possible.

Terry/Damp for JO. JO has had injury problems, and they are looking to move both him and Tinsley and rebuild around Dunleavy and Granger. Terry/Damp allows them to move JO, and then move Tinsley for a 6th man.

Terry, Granger, Dunleavy, Diogu, Damp has some inside scoring, slashers, and true shooters on the team. Plus they seem like they would be fairly good defensively.

Stack/JHo for AK47 is a cash dump for better offense. Stack comes off the books for $2M after next year, and JHo would score more than AK47, IMO. Utah basically saves some money and gets the better offensive player, IMO, because AK47 can't be around the basket all the time with Boozer down there. JHo has more of a mid range game than AK. Stack would be their 6th man -- if he didn't punch out Sloan along the way.

So I can see it being possible, just not probable.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Any 60-65 win team has a shot at winning it all. I think the only thing you can ask for is a shot.

True, but if the Phoenix Suns have taught me anything over the past few years, it's that teams without a bench can only aspire to losing the WCF in 6 games (at best...)

Don't get me wrong - JO/Dirk/Wright/AK-47/Kidd is as solid a starting 5 as you can get in the NBA, but most of the games we lost last season were when the bench took the floor (of course, there was little distinction between "starters" & "bench players" with Avery's rotations!)



But, upon further review - if you could somehow bend the laws of reality and put that lineup onto a roster, a lot of vets would probably take a pay cut to join a contender of this caliber (like the Celtics earlier this season...)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Here is why I think it might be possible.

Terry/Damp for JO. JO has had injury problems, and they are looking to move both him and Tinsley and rebuild around Dunleavy and Granger. Terry/Damp allows them to move JO, and then move Tinsley for a 6th man.

I like the trade better with Tinsley as our 6th man, but I'd still worry about J.O. - do we really want Diop/Bass at the 5 if he's injured? (but if he isn't injured, J.O. & Dirk would be a beastly front court!)

[chosen_one8976]

Originally Posted by Underdog

True, but if the Phoenix Suns have taught me anything over the past few years, it's that teams without a bench can only aspire to losing the WCF in 6 games (at best...)

Don't get me wrong - JO/Dirk/Wright/AK-47/Kidd is as solid a starting 5 as you can get in the NBA, but most of the games we lost last season were when the bench took the floor (of course, there was little distinction between "starters" & "bench players" with Avery's rotations!)



But, upon further review - if you could somehow bend the laws of reality and put that lineup onto a roster, a lot of vets would probably take a pay cut to join a contender of this caliber (like the Celtics earlier this season...)

thank you underdog, at least you know what youre talkin about

no bench=no team

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by chosen_one8976

thank you underdog, at least you know what youre talkin about

Everyone needs to capture a screenshot of this post, print it out, have it framed, and hang it over whichever monitor you check this site most with so you will be forever reminded that I was believed to know what I was talking about once...

(and, no - chosen_one8976 is not a fake profile of mine!)