Here is someone who agrees with Mavdog and Reeds

[FishForLunch]

Cleric supports targeting children
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 05/09/2004)


An extremist Islamic cleric based in Britain said yesterday that he would support hostage-taking at British schools if carried out by terrorists with a just cause.



Omar Bakri Mohammed, the spiritual leader of the extremist sect al-Muhajiroun, said that holding women and children hostage would be a reasonable course of action for a Muslim who has suffered under British rule.

In an interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Mohammed said: "If an Iraqi Muslim carried out an attack like that in Britain, it would be justified because Britain has carried out acts of terrorism in Iraq.

"As long as the Iraqi did not deliberately kill women and children, and they were killed in the crossfire, that would be okay."

Mr Mohammed, 44, who lives in Edmonton, north London, but is originally from Syria, also claimed that the Chechen rebels were not responsible for the deaths of more than 350 people - at least half of them children - who are so far known to have died in Beslan.

"The Mujahideen [Chechen rebels] would not have wanted to kill those people, because it is strictly forbidden as a Muslim to deliberately kill women and children. It is the fault of the Russians," he said.

The father of seven came to Britain in 1985 after being deported from Saudi Arabia because of his membership of a banned group. He has since been given leave by the Home Office to remain in Britain for five years but the Government is reviewing his status.

He gave an interview yesterday to promote a "celebratory" conference in London next Saturday to commemorate the third anniversary of the September 11 attacks.

Andrew Dismore, the Labour MP for Hendon, was infuriated by Mr Mohammed's comments. "That sounds to me like incitement and I will report him to Scotland Yard," he said. "It is an insult to most moderate Muslims, who are sick of people like this claiming to represent them."

[twelli]

It's frightening how many of these 'clerics' legally reside in Western Europe and probably the US as well.

They are probably worse than the terrorists themselves, because they instigate and they give the terrorists a moral justification for their acts.

[knowitall]

Here is someone that agrees with Mavdog and Reeds? Obviously fish has consumed too much mercury.

[Chiwas]

It was a huge mistake by the Russians, indeed, but it's freaking annoying and disgusting how a "cleric" can make such an statement calling "just cause" anything coming from terrorists. That man must be jailed.

There is no justification for terrorism, wherever it happens, whoever commits it.

[FishForLunch]

Russia, although not nearly as powerful as the US, is not shackled by political correctness, public opinion or ACLU lawyers. I hope Putin joins forces with Bush in wiping out those Islamofacists.

[knowitall]

Interesting that you think the root cause is Islamic.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
Interesting that you think the root cause is Islamic.

Interesting how you believe Islam and Islamofacism to be the same thing.

[FishForLunch]

Yes I do think the root cause for the Russian hostage crisis is Wahabbism. I DO NOT think the russians deserved it.

[twelli]

what makes me sick is that those bastards fully enjoy the benefits of living in a Western society, including social security and everything, and openly support those who want to bring down the non-Islamic world.

The Islam might not be the root problem, but it's the interpretation of the Islam that has gone wrong in the minds of too many.

[knowitall]

Why is that LRB? Simply because people are willing to accept assistance from anywhere that could prevent their genoside? You have turned out to be quite the boy scout.

[FishForLunch]

Quote

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Originally posted by: knowitall
Interesting that you think the root cause is Islamic.
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[LRB]
Interesting how you believe Islam and Islamofacism to be the same thing.
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Why is that LRB? Simply because people are willing to accept assistance from anywhere that could prevent their genoside? You have turned out to be quite the boy scout.

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What does knowitall's reply have to do with Islamofacism?

[knowitall]

The title of your thread is disturbing.

[FishForLunch]

Are these the guys that Kerry would consult before dealing with any threat to our national security. What do you expect from the leftists other than blame. They have no solutions.
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Moscow angered by EU demand

Vladimir Putin speaks to a woman in a hospital in Beslan, North Ossetia. (AFP)
Moscow/Valkenburg (Netherlands), Sept. 4 (Reuters): Russia denounced today as “blasphemous” a request by the EU’s Dutch presidency for an explanation for the bloody end to a mass hostage seizure at a school by Chechen gunmen.

But Dutch foreign minister Bernard Bot, who made the request in a statement yesterday on behalf of the EU presidency, said he had been misunderstood and he would try to calm the row by talking to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov.

“There obviously was a misunderstanding,” Bot told a news conference after a meeting of EU foreign ministers in the Netherlands. “My words have been misinterpreted. I never said that I needed to be ... informed.”

More than 320 people, almost half of them children, were found dead after troops stormed a school yesterday in the southern Russian town of Beslan, where Chechen separatists had held more than 1,000 hostages for 53 hours.

In a statement issued in the name of the EU presidency yesterday, Bot said all countries should work together to stop such tragedies, adding: “We also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened.”

The Russian foreign ministry reacted with outrage to Bot’s statement, and Interfax news agency said the Dutch ambassador had been summoned to the ministry to explain.

“Mr Bot’s elaborations are an absolute contrast with the wide international support and solidarity with Russia in these tragic days,” a ministry statement said.

“Inappropriate statements by the Dutch minister look odious ... and blasphemous,” it said. “We expect explanations from the Dutch side.” Bot said had only sought more information from Moscow and had not intended to criticise.

“I will certainly set the record straight with my colleague Lavrov later in the day,” he said.

“In the context of the fact that we are dealing with a global scourge ... it would be very useful if there was more intensive cooperation between all countries in the world, both in the preliminary stage when we are trying to prevent such things and in the aftermath, because we can all learn from each other,” he said.

At Valkenburg in the Netherlands, where the EU ministers were meeting, Swedish foreign minister Laila Freivalds tsaid she understood the Russian reaction and Irish foreign minister Brian Cowen said it would be “a very premature and wrong judgment” to fault the Russian security forces. But diplomats said former Soviet republic Latvia had pressed the EU at the meeting to react more strongly to the Russian handling of the siege.

[FishForLunch]

'Innocent religion is now a message of hate'
(Filed: 05/09/2004)


It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims.



The hostage-takers of children in Beslan, North Ossetia, were Muslims. The other hostage-takers and subsequent murderers of the Nepalese chefs and workers in Iraq were also Muslims. Those involved in rape and murder in Darfur, Sudan, are Muslims, with other Muslims chosen to be their victims.

Those responsible for the attacks on residential towers in Riyadh and Khobar were Muslims. The two women who crashed two airliners last week were also Muslims.

Bin Laden is a Muslim. The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim.

What a pathetic record. What an abominable "achievement". Does all this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies and our culture?

These images, when put together, or taken separately, are shameful and degrading. But let us start with putting an end to a history of denial. Let us acknowledge their reality, instead of denying them and seeking to justify them with sound and fury signifying nothing.

For it would be easy to cure ourselves if we realise the seriousness of our sickness. Self-cure starts with self-realisation and confession. We should then run after our terrorist sons, in the full knowledge that they are the sour grapes of a deformed culture.

Let us listen to Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Sheikh - the Qatar-based radical Egyptian cleric - and hear him recite his "fatwa" about the religious permissibility of killing civilian Americans in Iraq. Let us contemplate the incident of this religious Sheikh allowing, nay even calling for, the murder of civilians.

This ailing Sheikh, in his last days, with two daughters studying in "infidel" Britain, soliciting children to kill innocent civilians.

How could this Sheikh face the mother of the youthful Nick Berg, who was slaughtered in Iraq because he wanted to build communication towers in that ravished country? How can we believe him when he tells us that Islam is the religion of mercy and peace while he is turning it into a religion of blood and slaughter?

In a different era, we used to consider the extremists, with nationalist or Leftist leanings, a menace and a source of corruption because of their adoption of violence as a means of discourse and their involvement in murder as an easy shortcut to their objectives.

At that time, the mosque used to be a haven, and the voice of religion used to be that of peace and reconciliation. Religious sermons were warm behests for a moral order and an ethical life.

Then came the Neo-Muslims. An innocent and benevolent religion, whose verses prohibit the felling of trees in the absence of urgent necessity, that calls murder the most heinous of crimes, that says explicitly that if you kill one person you have killed humanity as a whole, has been turned into a global message of hate and a universal war cry.

We can't call those who take schoolchildren as hostages our own.

We cannot tolerate in our midst those who abduct journalists, murder civilians, explode buses; we cannot accept them as related to us, whatever the sufferings they claim to justify their criminal deeds. These are the people who have smeared Islam and stained its image.

We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly, implemented by Muslim men and women.

We cannot redeem our extremist youths, who commit all these heinous crimes, without confronting the Sheikhs who thought it ennobling to re-invent themselves as revolutionary ideologues, sending other people's sons and daughters to certain death, while sending their own children to European and American schools and colleges.

Abdel Rahman al-Rashed is general manager of Al- Arabiya news channel. Yesterday, his article appeared in the pan-Arabic newspaper Al-Sharq Al-Awsat.

[knowitall]

You should apologize to Mavdog and Reeds.

[FishForLunch]

For what believing that the Russians dont deserve what they got? Or that Wahabbi version Islam is the root cause for all these recent terror activities.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
Why is that LRB? Simply because people are willing to accept assistance from anywhere that could prevent their genoside? You have turned out to be quite the boy scout.

What in the hell are you talking about??? Are you saying that Islam and Islamofacism are the same because people are willing accept assistance from anywhere that could prevent their genoside or that they are the same because you think that I'm a boy scout???

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: FishForLunch
For what believing that the Russians dont deserve what they got? Or that Wahabbi version Islam is the root cause for all these recent terror activities.

Both. Simple mind at work.

First, there is no "deserve" in any of my (or anybody else's) comments. The failure of some to understand that is revealing. There is an attempt to communicate the cause, why we see the continued escalation of violence that ends with death to hundreds of innocent civilians, that doesn't connote any "deserve".

Second, there is not any "Wahabbi version" in what has unfolded in Chechnya. You toss this out with no substantiation. The conflict is much more complicated than a simplistic claim that Wahabbism is the "root cause" of the war. This war has its roots in the 1930's Stalin directed forced relocation of Chechens and the many acts later that has led us to where we are today.

simple mind, simple inaccurate statements.