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Old 12-17-2008, 11:10 PM   #41
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You saying Erica has special needs? She's one of the more educated posters on this board IMHO.
I think his sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bayliss View Post
I just dpon't believe that mentality. Dirk actually needs to play 38-40 minutes. Dirk is better with more minutes than with less minutes (IMO).

Look at 05-06
He averaged 38.1 minutes a night. But in the last two months of the season he averaged 39.6 minutes in 25 games. And he was outstanding in the playoffs. Dirk is a rhythm player. And lack of minutes makes him cold.
He was also 29, he will be 32 in the playoffs this year. And he is coming from a summer in which he played two olympic tournaments. Those minutes catch up sooner or later, I'd like to see his minutes handled the way the Spurs do with Duncan. And the thing is, with Bass on board for this season at least we have a player who can do a good job of covering for him for 15 minutes or so.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:18 PM   #43
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He was also 29, he will be 32 in the playoffs this year. And he is coming from a summer in which he played two olympic tournaments. Those minutes catch up sooner or later, I'd like to see his minutes handled the way the Spurs do with Duncan. And the thing is, with Bass on board for this season at least we have a player who can do a good job of covering for him for 15 minutes or so.
He will be 31 at the end of June. He is not an old man. As for Duncan versus Dirk. You can handle Duncan that way because he isn't a shooter. There is nothing about his shooting that requires "rhythm"... Dirk on the other hand needs a feel for the game. Minutes and touches require that.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:19 PM   #44
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Just came from the game. It felt good to come out of the Air Canada Centre with a grin. I think My wife and I were the only ones smiling... hahaha!

Great recap from jthig32. Summed up the game pretty much.

JET was amazing. He was doing everything. I initially felt that his game has dipped when Josh came back from his injury. However, as the game went on, he continued to be aggressive and he was making great shots and great plays.

Dirk was great too. He was definitely off in the first half. But in the 2nd half, he was unstoppable. The Raptor fans (around 18,000 of them!) were just in awe. You could see in in their faces. He would shoot the ball and it was all net. The Raptor fans beside us were saying "Has he missed at all in the 2nd half???"... and I could only smile. He did have quite a lot of turnovers (when the ball was swatted out of his hands) but overall, he was his usual great self.

George... Hmmm. Well, he shouldn't shoot. It should be the least of his priorities. He is a good defender but offensively, he really makes awful decisions. There was a moment there when he had 2 offensive blunders. One, an offensive foul and then the other, a travel. Ugh.

Kidd was quietly effective. I'm a big Kidd fan but objectively, he didn't have one of his "amazing" games. He hasn't had one in quite a while. Tonight, I felt he should have been more aggressive on the offensive side. He only attempted 6 shots tonight and made 3 of them. I hope he elevates his game because it can only help this team.

JJB was okay. When he went up for that layup and got blocked, I said to myself "well, what's new"... To make it worse, the Raptors fan beside me said "Does he actually think that he won't get blocked 90% of the time??"... But I liked the fact that he didn't push the issue. He tried, he got blocked, and didn't do it over and over (unlike previous games). He tried to be more of a distributor and he was effective in most instances. During one timeout, I saw Kidd and JBB talking and it seems JJB genuinely takes advice from Kidd. Kidd was describing a few things (I think) and JJB would nod and listen. I didn't see any sign that he didn't like being told by Kidd on how to run a few plays.

Josh was good. His scoring was a huge help to the team. However, there were some occasions when he would totally ignore Dirk or anybody for that matter. It just seems that the ball movement just goes away when he has the ball. He really thrives in the ISO offense and passing isn't his strength. The Raptors fan beside me made a comment. He said "Josh Howard will rarely pass the ball to anyone, much less pass it to Dirk. I think he is trying to outplay Dirk and be the main man on this Mavs team." (something to that effect)... I was caught by surprise, I didn't know what to think.


There was one thing I really noticed in a few of the timeouts. Dirk, JET, JKidd and even Barea (or Damp) were talking and Josh was just in the other side of the huddle. I don't know if he was disinterested or those other players felt that he didn't have to be part of the huddle. I hope there isn't any tension or gap between them because it will be detrimental to the team.

On the Raptors side, well, Bosh probably had one of his worst games. He was just terribly off. And you could see he wasn't himself. I could believe he was that bad. Well I guess all good players have one of those horrible games at some point.

Overall, I'm just glad the Mavs won. Felt good to come out of the ACC grinning while everyone else was cursing.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:22 PM   #45
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He was also 29, he will be 32 in the playoffs this year.
Actually, he'll be 30 until June 19. If he turns 31 and the Mavs are still playing, I don't think we'll be complaining about his minutes!

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And he is coming from a summer in which he played two olympic tournaments. Those minutes catch up sooner or later, I'd like to see his minutes handled the way the Spurs do with Duncan. And the thing is, with Bass on board for this season at least we have a player who can do a good job of covering for him for 15 minutes or so.
I agree with Bayliss on this point. It seemed to backfire on Avery in 06-07 when he tried to rest Dirk toward the end of the season. Dirk needs his regular minutes to stay in rhythm. I think he's playing a tad bit too much right now, but I think as Josh gets healthier you'll see him drop back down into the 36-38 minute range.

I think the key for Dirk in terms of rest is that they need to get him a solid rest in the 1st half and then a short rest in the late 3rd/early 4th if they can. If they do that, he never seems to show any signs of fatigue.

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Old 12-17-2008, 11:28 PM   #46
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Hey monty55555...glad you had a blast at the game! Nice recap.

I agree with Bayliss too. Dirk has said before he hates taking substantial rests in the games or taking games off, he is totally dependent on keeping his rhythm. And I pretty much agree with KGs plan of rest. You just generally need to get him rest near the end of the first or some kind of stretch after the first break in the 2nd...then come back in to finish the half. Find a stretch somewhere in the last part of the 3rd/early 4th and then let him roll the rest of the way.
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:30 PM   #47
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anybody who dresses up like a bat... clearly has issues
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:42 PM   #48
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Carlisle should take Dirk out the last minute of the 3rd quarter. Then rest him a minute or two of the 4th quarter. But during those 3 minutes it is IMPERATIVE that he have Howard/Terry/Kidd in there. You can rest the other guys some other time but in truth they might not need it.. (Especially Terry who comes off the bench anyway.)
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:01 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky View Post
The mavs really remind me of Homer Simpson in the episode where he becomes a boxer.

Mavs just let teams shoot the lights out in the first half in hopes of tiring them out before they go on the offensive.

And hey, J-ho is back. I looked on the box score and half thought it was Juwan with how permanent Josh's injury sounded.
Hah, you mean where Homer has Homer Simpson disease?

That's a pretty good assessment.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:05 AM   #50
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Just came from the game. It felt good to come out of the Air Canada Centre with a grin. I think My wife and I were the only ones smiling... hahaha!

Great recap from jthig32. Summed up the game pretty much.

JET was amazing. He was doing everything. I initially felt that his game has dipped when Josh came back from his injury. However, as the game went on, he continued to be aggressive and he was making great shots and great plays.

Dirk was great too. He was definitely off in the first half. But in the 2nd half, he was unstoppable. The Raptor fans (around 18,000 of them!) were just in awe. You could see in in their faces. He would shoot the ball and it was all net. The Raptor fans beside us were saying "Has he missed at all in the 2nd half???"... and I could only smile. He did have quite a lot of turnovers (when the ball was swatted out of his hands) but overall, he was his usual great self.

George... Hmmm. Well, he shouldn't shoot. It should be the least of his priorities. He is a good defender but offensively, he really makes awful decisions. There was a moment there when he had 2 offensive blunders. One, an offensive foul and then the other, a travel. Ugh.

Kidd was quietly effective. I'm a big Kidd fan but objectively, he didn't have one of his "amazing" games. He hasn't had one in quite a while. Tonight, I felt he should have been more aggressive on the offensive side. He only attempted 6 shots tonight and made 3 of them. I hope he elevates his game because it can only help this team.

JJB was okay. When he went up for that layup and got blocked, I said to myself "well, what's new"... To make it worse, the Raptors fan beside me said "Does he actually think that he won't get blocked 90% of the time??"... But I liked the fact that he didn't push the issue. He tried, he got blocked, and didn't do it over and over (unlike previous games). He tried to be more of a distributor and he was effective in most instances. During one timeout, I saw Kidd and JBB talking and it seems JJB genuinely takes advice from Kidd. Kidd was describing a few things (I think) and JJB would nod and listen. I didn't see any sign that he didn't like being told by Kidd on how to run a few plays.

Josh was good. His scoring was a huge help to the team. However, there were some occasions when he would totally ignore Dirk or anybody for that matter. It just seems that the ball movement just goes away when he has the ball. He really thrives in the ISO offense and passing isn't his strength. The Raptors fan beside me made a comment. He said "Josh Howard will rarely pass the ball to anyone, much less pass it to Dirk. I think he is trying to outplay Dirk and be the main man on this Mavs team." (something to that effect)... I was caught by surprise, I didn't know what to think.


There was one thing I really noticed in a few of the timeouts. Dirk, JET, JKidd and even Barea (or Damp) were talking and Josh was just in the other side of the huddle. I don't know if he was disinterested or those other players felt that he didn't have to be part of the huddle. I hope there isn't any tension or gap between them because it will be detrimental to the team.

On the Raptors side, well, Bosh probably had one of his worst games. He was just terribly off. And you could see he wasn't himself. I could believe he was that bad. Well I guess all good players have one of those horrible games at some point.

Overall, I'm just glad the Mavs won. Felt good to come out of the ACC grinning while everyone else was cursing.
great summary. +imaginary rep. I find the stuff about Josh especially insightful.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:56 AM   #51
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dammit wecaoniddmab891
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:00 AM   #52
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So how does Bosh feel about joining his hometown team that he grew up cheering and loving? It might be great, if he actually grew up that way.

"I just wanted to play in the NBA," Bosh said. "Back then with the Mavericks, it wasn't like the Celtics or the Bulls, to be honest. I don't think there were a lot of kids in Dallas [saying] 'I'm going to grow up and play for the Mavericks one day.' "

Years of ineptitude tend to erode the wow factor for a young fan base.

The Mavericks will have interest in the 24-year-old Bosh if he becomes a free agent. They will have interest in all free agents in the hopes of pairing a young set of legs (or perhaps two sets) with Dirk Nowitzki, who will be 32 in 2010.

Said Bosh of someday being a Maverick: "I'm not sure, maybe when I'm real old and almost out of the league. You never know. I'm sure they're going to have people on their free-agent list. It's just something you got to pay attention to when the time comes."
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:53 AM   #53
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When Bosh is "real old and almost out of the league," I'm sure he will visit several different NBA locales.

Ungrateful SOB.
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:10 AM   #54
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For what it's worth, sounds like the team thinks very highly of George's defense. Howard went to far as to specifically credit George for the win tonight:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.3c91724.html
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:19 AM   #55
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The compliments on DG's defense were good to see. I missed the first half of the game and only got to watch portions of the second half. I didn't really see much of the George/Bosh matchup. But as long as he's on the team I want him contributing. Even if he is irritating occasionally.

I share the longing for Wright to get back into the lineup, btw. Though it's important that he start making shots. For all the bellyaching about DG's offense, he's been more efficient than Wright, whose efg% on jumpers coming into tonight was a putrid .284. To Aontine's credit, a lot of his fga's come inside, and that's why I want him out there, but damn.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:42 AM   #56
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I like Shawne Williams. Anyone else?

He needs to develop offensive consistency though.

I like the little things he does on the glass and on D though.

Our role players seem so... "meh".
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:15 AM   #57
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I still wanna see a little more out of Dirk. JUST a little more, in particular in the FTA department.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Bayliss View Post
I just dpon't believe that mentality. Dirk actually needs to play 38-40 minutes. Dirk is better with more minutes than with less minutes (IMO).

Look at 05-06
He averaged 38.1 minutes a night. But in the last two months of the season he averaged 39.6 minutes in 25 games. And he was outstanding in the playoffs. Dirk is a rhythm player. And lack of minutes makes him cold.
Fixed. He shouldn't get around 42 minutes night in night out, but 39-40 is fine for me. As you wrote, he needs to stay in his rhythm, otherwise he gets cold. Thus I don't like it to see him on the bench for more than 6 minutes like yesterday. Better two breaks of three minutes instead.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:15 AM   #59
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Did you guys notice Damp tried to hit another baseline shot from about 10 ft away from the basket? I'm sure he can hit those he just doesn't have the confidence. I never liked Damp but this season he is playing with something else. I think its called heart?

I no longer have a problem with DG anymore. he needs to keep playing like this
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:05 AM   #60
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YEAH!
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:23 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by LonghornDub View Post
For what it's worth, sounds like the team thinks very highly of George's defense. Howard went to far as to specifically credit George for the win tonight:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.3c91724.html
George is a total beast on D.

Like i have said many times before, he is very under appreciated here.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:00 PM   #62
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Overall it was a very good game and an amazing fourth quarter. I would still like to see us bring in an offensively capable center, though. Kaman would be the ideal candidate but I wouldn't mind seeing a Diop/Stackhouse for Brad Miller trade if we couldn't get anything better.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:09 PM   #63
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Agree with Kidd, the slow start could be attributed to having Kidd, Damp and George all on the floor at once for the first 7-9 minutes. Kidd at least has to control the offense, set people up early on, get people gonig early. I think Kidd feels fine because the W is all that matters, but in the long run, if Jet and Dirk's pick and roll are shut down, is there a 2nd option? That's what all great teams have that 2nd option to go to, Kidd needs to working on something.

Anyone notice the box scores, says Barea got a DNP.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008121728
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:13 PM   #64
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Agree with Kidd, the slow start could be attributed to having Kidd, Damp and George all on the floor at once for the first 7-9 minutes. Kidd at least has to control the offense, set people up early on, get people gonig early. I think Kidd feels fine because the W is all that matters, but in the long run, if Jet and Dirk's pick and roll are shut down, is there a 2nd option? That's what all great teams have that 2nd option to go to, Kidd needs to working on something.

Anyone notice the box scores, says Barea got a DNP.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008121728
NBA.com had given Barea's minutes to Wright last night as well. Weird.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:15 PM   #65
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Ah man...so wait...what were Barea and Wright's real minutes last night?

I didn't get to see any of the game, I was busy. But I checked on my phone and saw that Wright played a bunch and that Barea had like 1:55 or something. I was pleased, but now I guess I was sadly misinformed...
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:31 PM   #66
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Wright did not play.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:39 PM   #67
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George is a total beast on D.

Like i have said many times before, he is very under appreciated here.
Coaches seem to think a lot more of George than fans do.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:52 PM   #68
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Yeah, also FSN showed C Bosh's face on the Nets logo instead of DHarris' when they did the upcoming games and featured players coming up. Wierd.

Green must be F ing up in practice or just not getting it. Sucks, all that ability.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:54 PM   #69
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If Green wants to play, he needs to change his mentality. Become a shut-down defender, and coaches will have to play you. He has the athleticism and the length, take advantage of it on the defensive side of the ball.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:00 PM   #70
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Coaches seem to think a lot more of George than fans do.
I'll take the coaches opinion over the fans.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:09 PM   #71
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If Green wants to play, he needs to change his mentality. Become a shut-down defender, and coaches will have to play you. He has the athleticism and the length, take advantage of it on the defensive side of the ball.
I'm not sure what his mentality is but I agree that he needs to be defensive minded to get in to the rotation. Still kinda sucks tho.
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:56 PM   #72
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Carlisle should take Dirk out the last minute of the 3rd quarter. Then rest him a minute or two of the 4th quarter. But during those 3 minutes it is IMPERATIVE that he have Howard/Terry/Kidd in there. You can rest the other guys some other time but in truth they might not need it.. (Especially Terry who comes off the bench anyway.)
This is the most underrated part of having Howard healthy. Sure, the Kidd-Barea-Terry-Dirk-Whoever lineup is great, and who knows, maybe Howard wouldn't have helped us in those situations...

But having Howard out there when Dirk or Terry is resting is invaluable.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:19 PM   #73
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I'll take the coaches opinion over the fans.


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Old 12-18-2008, 05:01 PM   #74
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Kidd is really playing poorly right now, offensively and defensively. He still gets his steals here and there, and will rebond well for a guard but that's far and away from what we expect from the PG on this team. I laughed at people who were saying that Barea should start over him, I don't think it's that crazy right now to be honest.
This is what I've been saying. Barea has been doing a MUCH better job of creating open looks for other players in the halfcourt than Kidd has.

Barea at least has that little move where he penetrates into the paint and kicks it back out to an open shooter. Kidd can't even do that. Kidd just dribbles the ball down, dumps it to someone else, and hides in the corner and hopes for a 3.

I think the problem is that they're doing more pick and rolls and running and gunning less... and Kidd is useless on offense unless they're running the floor. They were running the floor more early in the season but now they seem to be slipping back into pick and roles and even some ISOs... and Kidd is useless in that environment. He has nothing in the half court offense.
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:25 PM   #75
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Said Bosh of someday being a Maverick: "I'm not sure, maybe when I'm real old and almost out of the league. You never know. I'm sure they're going to have people on their free-agent list. It's just something you got to pay attention to when the time comes."
Haha, at least he was honest about it.
That seemed like a polite way of saying, I doubt they can fit me in the budget.

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If Green wants to play, he needs to change his mentality. Become a shut-down defender, and coaches will have to play you. He has the athleticism and the length, take advantage of it on the defensive side of the ball.


I agree, but...WHAT exactly does Wright need to do to get some friggin' playing time on the court?
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:26 PM   #76
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Haha, at least he was honest about it.
That seemed like a polite way of saying, I doubt they can fit me in the budget.





I agree, but...WHAT exactly does Wright need to do to get some friggin' playing time on the court?
Hit some jumpers.
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:47 PM   #77
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Hit some jumpers.
True...but I'm usually the kind of guy who would have the philosophy to let it play out with the guy, basicall Let him work it out on the court. Now if he's just not showing anything in practice, then I understand not giving him time. But if he's holding up ok and just not getting time, that can mess with confidence and rhythm. I'd just let him learn in game situations and go through the growing pains, have a decent leash on him...but not super tight.

Yeah the 3PT % is drastically different between George and Wright but I like what versatility he can bring offensively and really not have a dramatic drop on defense.

He actually brings another facet to the Mavs offense: a guy who can attack the rim/paint with some consistency. Most people on the board get excited when Josh attacks the basket, that's because he just doesn't do it enough. Wright is athletic enough to get in there and alter his shot mid-air based on what the defender does. He's also savvy enough to dish it out if there is an open man and it's a better shot than what he has going.

Wright needs minutes, it just might need that impending George injury for it to happen.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:45 PM   #78
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The compliments on DG's defense were good to see. I missed the first half of the game and only got to watch portions of the second half. I didn't really see much of the George/Bosh matchup. But as long as he's on the team I want him contributing. Even if he is irritating occasionally.

I share the longing for Wright to get back into the lineup, btw. Though it's important that he start making shots. For all the bellyaching about DG's offense, he's been more efficient than Wright, whose efg% on jumpers coming into tonight was a putrid .284. To Aontine's credit, a lot of his fga's come inside, and that's why I want him out there, but damn.
That's the key. None of the wing players except George is shooting worth a darn.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:52 PM   #79
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Wright just needs to stop shooting threes. He gets to the basket well enough that he deserves to be on the floor.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:22 PM   #80
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I think it's funny how ultimately Rick is doing the exact same thing many chided Avery for--playing veterans like DG over young talented guys.

Not saying I don't like Rick--I do like him a lot. Just humorous.
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