Rodrigue Beaubois development thread

[Five-ofan]

i posted this in the pistons thread but it belongs in this thread more so ill just copy and paste it here.


Everyone seems to be of the notion that the reasoning for carlisle's choices are A) play roddy more minutes and have him develop but have the team be worse or B) play roddy less minutes and have the team be better but have roddy not develop. I propose option C as a possibility. Its entirely possible that Carlisle is slowly increasing Roddy's minutes because he believes it a better way to develop roddy than feeding him minutes hes not ready for. Confidence is an important thing, especially to a young player. Right now as a spot player, Roddy is a guy that receives very little advance scouting and no game planning. That coupled with his immense physical tools leads to him being placed in very good situations to succeed. That success can lead to improved confidence and limits his negative experiences. Im not proposing that this is the only possible scenario, simply stating that it is possible that Carlisle feels that playing roddy limited minutes is actually better for his development than spoon feeding him a ton of minutes.

And to be clear, as a fan id love to see roddy play 30 minutes a night. Aside from dirk and marion, theres no one on this team i enjoy watching more.

[sefant77]

One thing should be clear: Boobie allready deserves to be part of the rotation (and if its just 10-15 a game). He has other tools than the rest of the backcourt and we need that tools and he showed he can provite this tools in a positive +/- way.

Something else i like: With Barea/Kidd u kind of always take Kidd out of the game and make him a shooter waiting in the corner. With Kidd/Boobie u keep the ball in Kidds hands and Kidd can create easy baskets for everyone else (im still waiting for the first team that defend that Kidd-Boobie oop).

The last 2-3 games make me really excited about him. He just need to develope a good pointguard/game iq and he will be a legit starter in the nba.

[muzak]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

i posted this in the pistons thread but it belongs in this thread more so ill just copy and paste it here.


Everyone seems to be of the notion that the reasoning for carlisle's choices are A) play roddy more minutes and have him develop but have the team be worse or B) play roddy less minutes and have the team be better but have roddy not develop. I propose option C as a possibility. Its entirely possible that Carlisle is slowly increasing Roddy's minutes because he believes it a better way to develop roddy than feeding him minutes hes not ready for. Confidence is an important thing, especially to a young player. Right now as a spot player, Roddy is a guy that receives very little advance scouting and no game planning. That coupled with his immense physical tools leads to him being placed in very good situations to succeed. That success can lead to improved confidence and limits his negative experiences. Im not proposing that this is the only possible scenario, simply stating that it is possible that Carlisle feels that playing roddy limited minutes is actually better for his development than spoon feeding him a ton of minutes.

And to be clear, as a fan id love to see roddy play 30 minutes a night. Aside from dirk and marion, theres no one on this team i enjoy watching more.

Why does either option have to lend itself to Robeau ultimately hurting the team? That's what I don't get. I haven't seen anything out there that would make me believe he makes any worse decisions, than say, JJB.

[Dirkenstien]

I'm happy to see Roddy is getting some serious love now. The kid was outstanding defensively against Jennings. At times Jennings dominated the game, but that was against JJB. JJB was really trying hard and you have to give him credit for that, but Jennings speed and length were just too much for him. On the other hand, BJ only scored 2 of his 25 points against Roddy....that is an incredible statistic. And in the clutch when it counted, Robo stepped up and shut Jennings down all through OT and in the last possession with the block.

Roddy still isn't as polished off the ball on offense as JJB, but that will come in time. Anyone else see him make that beautiful off the ball cut to the basket for the easy lay up? I think it was in the 3rd. That's the first time I've seen him make a cut like that all season which shows me he is working on improving all aspects of his game, including his iq. We can expect to see more and more of that as the season progresses.

Someone else said it and I'll say it again, this kid is LEGIT. He deserves more minutes, hands down, and after that defensive effort he gave Carlisle, I don't have any doubts he'll get them.

[nowhereman]

If Roddy gets more minutes, based on what we've seen so far, I'm pretty sure they are coming from Ross or Terry. Carlisle, and it seems with good reason, does not trust this guy to run an offense. I don't think we've seen any meaningful minutes from Roddy as a point guard yet. Kidd's been in there with him initiating the offense for most of his sets. He seems like he has a lot to learn about spacing, pick and rolls, where his teammates like the ball, and the feel for the game.

The kid has tremendous basketball instincts though, which pay off well when you're on the floor with guys like Dirk, Kidd and Marion and can kinda wander around. I think with some more awareness and familiarity with the NBA game, he's going to be a HELL of a point guard eventually.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by nowhereman

If Roddy gets more minutes, based on what we've seen so far, I'm pretty sure they are coming from Ross or Terry. Carlisle, and it seems with good reason, does not trust this guy to run an offense. I don't think we've seen any meaningful minutes from Roddy as a point guard yet. Kidd's been in there with him initiating the offense for most of his sets. He seems like he has a lot to learn about spacing, pick and rolls, where his teammates like the ball, and the feel for the game.

The kid has tremendous basketball instincts though, which pay off well when you're on the floor with guys like Dirk, Kidd and Marion and can kinda wander around. I think with some more awareness and familiarity with the NBA game, he's going to be a HELL of a point guard eventually.

This, basically. You don't want the kid to turn the ball over a lot, it's not good for the team (obviously) and it's not good for him either. With that said, from the small sample size, it really looks like he'll be able to run a team in the not too far future, i mean, he has much better hands than Devin for example, and i bet he's a better passer than DH was at that age.

[sefant77]

Btw did Boobie knew the Mavs would draft him for sure at #24?

No matter who is maybe slipping down...

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Btw did Boobie knew the Mavs would draft him for sure at #24?

No matter who is maybe slipping down...

I think Roddy pretty much knew. I think there was a reason that he really didn't work out with anyone else after his workout with the Mavs. He really just kinda disappeared, and nobody heard about him until the Mavs drafted him.

[sefant77]

I never understood either how that trade with OKC (our #24 for their #25 + future 2nd) worked without the small risk that OKC draft Boobie for themself...

[Kante]

Didn´t OKC got Mullens, our original Pick?

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Kante

Didn´t OKC got Mullens, our original Pick?

Yes, but Thunder came "Hey, draft Mullins for us and we draft for you and u get a 2nd rounder" because they was scared we pick Mullins at 24?

A 2nd rounder wouldnt change that if we wanted Mullins..

[muzak]

And Mullins hasn't even seen the court. I bet they're kicking themselves now.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

He was mentioned right after the main five rookies who are doing well....

Rodrigue Beaubois, Mavericks | Rookie card
The Mavs reeled off three straight wins after Roddy B. was moved into the starting lineup, where he has averaged almost 12 ppg with some excellent shooting. He has also been a spark defensively and I'd guess we'll see him in the Mavs' rotation for years to come, at the very least.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...Rookies-091118

[sefant77]

Could you copy the whole insider article? Would like to read the top5

[iella]

Lob from Kidd to Beaubois not just passing fancy for Dallas Mavericks

The lob pass from point guard Jason Kidd to Beaubois has become a useful tool for the Mavericks. They have run it on the first play of at least two games that Beaubois has started. Against Milwaukee on Monday, they ran it after a timeout late in the second quarter and it worked perfectly to trigger an 11-2 Mavericks surge to finish the half with a 12-point lead.

Funny bit in the article:

"All you have to do is have somebody who can throw a decent pass," Kidd says.

He's been known to do that a time or 10,000 in his career.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I never understood either how that trade with OKC (our #24 for their #25 + future 2nd) worked without the small risk that OKC draft Boobie for themself...

Pre pick agreement, if a team goes back on it, it usually spells doom on the team reneging. League wide they are the last team you want to deal with, bad reputation. I think this is one of the reasons you never leak info out on who you want. On a larger scale, isn't this how Dirk ended up in Dallas too? Dallas picked Traylor and Milwaukee picked Dirk, then made the swap.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Yes, but Thunder came "Hey, draft Mullins for us and we draft for you and u get a 2nd rounder" because they was scared we pick Mullins at 24?

A 2nd rounder wouldnt change that if we wanted Mullins..

Yea, why you do not want others to get your draft list. This probably cropped up during the draft as Mullens began to slide a bit. He was projected for the late teens.

[CadBane]

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2248

[Big Boy Laroux]

Mark jackson cracks me up, he called him "roddy BeauBRO" on a few occasions last night.

[Dirkenstien]

It's always fun to go back and read through the daily dime discussions live recap. I decided to pick everything out that mentioned Robo:

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
At last summer's pre-draft camp in Chicago I spoke at length with Roddy Buckets. He was incredibly soft spoke. I left thinking he lacked confidence. And I was wrong. Looks like the Mavs found a good player.

Tim MacMahon (ESPNDallas):
@Timothy -- Beaubois lacks confidence in his English, not his game.

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
@Tim, no doubt. The thing I liked about him was how passionate he sounded about playing D. Looks like that translates just fine.

Tim MacMahon (ESPNDallas):
Roddy Buckets in the last three-plus games as a starter: 41 points on 65-percent shooting in 65 minutes.

STEIN_LINE_HQ:
I also feel personally ripped off that Parker can't go tonight because I want to see TP and Beaubois on the floor together. Racing

STEIN_LINE_HQ:
Popovich expert pre-game analysis on Beaubois: "He's a hell of a lot faster than you are."

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
Beabouis looks like Dallas' future point.

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
Beabouis might be the fastest player in the league.

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
@Justin: Without Ginobili or Parker, the Spurs want to keep the scoring low. Control the pace, slow Roddy Buckets, gring it out in the half court.

Timothy Varner (48MoH/TrueHoop Network):
George Hill is trying to get in on the promising young point talk. Roddy Buckets stole all his press in the first half.

Tim MacMahon (ESPNDallas):
Carlisle is still hesitant to give Beaubois clutch PT. He sat the whole fourth quarter in Milwaukee ... then shut down Brandon Jennings in OT.

[sefant77]

12/2, mavs@nets, cant wait

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Mark jackson cracks me up, he called him "roddy BeauBRO" on a few occasions last night.

In that case, I've got a major Beaubromance!

[monty55555]

EXCLUSIVE: Jason Kidd Guides Us Through Mavs' Barea-vs.-Beaubois Plus/Minus Debate


“For myself, I don’t get too wrapped up in (advanced stats) because a lot of them still put a lot of weight on scoring,’’ Mavs leader Jason Kidd tells DallasBasketball.com. “And me, I put more weight on winning.’’

But for the purpose of this project (here's Part 1 of this attempt to put into application the Plus/Minus numbers that favor rookie Roddy Beaubois over J.J. Barea) I view Kidd as an ideal partner in basketball science. Nobody knows the position better than he does. Nobody knows the relative skills of Roddy and JJB better than he does. And in my 16 years of dealing with Kidd, he’s never been much of a b.s.’er with me. …

“I think,’’ says Kidd when I introduce him to the subject, “what we’re going to find is that eventually, the coaches … are going to have a decision to make.’’

With that, into the laboratory we march, Jason Kidd and yours truly. …

First a quick rounding-off of the raw data and the raw observations, based on a pretty accepted advanced stat, Plus/Minus. (For all the specifics, see Part 1.) Barea has been ahead of the rookie Beaubois as a finisher of record, even as Roddy has moved into the starting lineup. In a Sunday win at Detroit, Pistons guard Will Bynum scored 27 points – eight of those when Roddy was on the floor, the other 19 when JJB was on the floor. The next night, in the OT win at Milwaukee, it happened again; the stellar youngster Brandon Jennings was clear more effective when JJB was on the floor than when he was opposed by Beaubois.

Little wonder that Jennings’ review of Beaubois’ work sounded like this:

“I think he is the future for that team.’’

Going into Wednesday’s San Antonio game, the Mavs as a team were a +72, while JJB was a -27.

Mr. Kidd?

“The first thing you have to consider is what a guy’s role is when he comes on the floor, who he is playing with, and who he is playing against,’’ Kidd says. “In J.J.’s case, a lot of times we’ve got him leading the second group. And overall, our second group, our bench, is and will be pretty good.’’

OK, but what about the fact that Barea has also been a part of the 3-PG Attack that puts him on the floor with Dallas’ best players? And what about the fact that when he is in that role, he shouldn’t be at all overextended, meaning, he doesn’t have to be the No. 1 scorer, he doesn’t have to be the No. 1 ballhandler?

“True,’’ Kidd says. “What I would say to that is to remember what J.J. did here last year in the same role. In that three (point-guard-type) lineup, it’s his versatility that really helps it work. Because he can be the scorer and he can be the ballhandler and he can be the guy who breaks down a defense. He’s done all that.’’

Let’s move to Roddy Beaubois. Just as Kidd has mentored JJB (Barea grew up idolizing the future Hall-of-Famer), Kidd’s been a big brother to Roddy. What does he see in Beaubois?

“Well, about the (Plus/Minus) numbers,’’ Kidd says, “that’s where the unfairness comes in. If Roddy starts and he gets to play with Dirk, he’s probably going to start pretty well, you know?’’

Nevertheless, Kidd isn’t arguing that the numbers are fibbing here. Yes, it’s a small sample size and yes, JJB has a track record and yes, there are going to be bumps in the rookie road that Roddy cannot simply sprint around or jump over (I think). But Kidd certainly understands if the Mavs audience is pleased to be seeing Beaubois’ minutes catching up with JJB’s minutes – and it seems he kind of feels the same way.

“We need them both, of course, especially with our injuries and especially because both of them are developing the ability to do so many things,’’ Kidd says. “But this Roddy. … he’s a talent. A real talent. The coaches are going to have decisions to make. I know (the coaches) are aware of the Plus/Minus deal and all the other (advanced stats). But mostly, it’s about Roddy’s talent. The only thing that limits him is his lack of experience …

“And,’’ my co-scientist Jason Kidd concludes, “it’s probably smart to go ahead and get him some of that experience.’’

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2256

[Alykhan04]

Ha nevermind, just got posted above me!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think the Barea and Boobie discussion is a fun one.

Barea, the undrafted pg slowly working his way into the league with hard work and the odds against him versus the naturally talented and athletic but raw rookie Beaubois. Who will win the fight of back-up pg supremacy? (voice of Howard Cosell)

[chumdawg]

Let me just say...it's a good problem to have. A very, very good problem to have.

[Nowitzki4President]

Whoops I typed the F word because I'm an idiot.

[badfish22]

Some mavs fans are dumbasses.
This one guy behind me was so pissed at Ross, he made the Barea hate here look like nothing.
He claimed that the only reason Ross was getting any PT was that he was from Dallas.

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Some mavs fans are dumbasses.
This one guy behind me was so pissed at Ross, he made the Barea hate here look like nothing.
He claimed that the only reason Ross was getting any PT was that he was from Dallas.

Hahaha that's pretty funny. I'm sure the average Mav fan that you see at the stadium doesn't even know, or care, where Ross is from.

You went to the game tonight? One hell of an ugly and, at some points, boring game, eh?

[badfish22]

Nah I went to the Spur game.
Don't go to many games so I always make sure to go to good ones when I go.

[Nowitzki4President]

Originally Posted by badfish22

Nah I went to the Spur game.
Don't go to many games so I always make sure to go to good ones when I go.

Went to that game as well. Great game to go to.

Where'd you sit?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

The guy behind me at the Kings game said "Who the is #3?! Get him off the court!" the moment Roddy made one mistake. I wanted to slap that guy so hard. Not only did he not know who Roddy was, but he thinks he's garbage because he made one turnover. Idiot.

Amen, brutha. That's exactly the way I feel about the recent Barea hate. It just shows an extraordinary lack of reason. Actually, I'm gonna blame Dirk. I'll call it the Dirk Standard. Dirk is out there playing like a Greek god, and I guess as a result some people have come to expect that from every Maverick. Guess what? Mere mortals don't play that way. Mere mortals are going to make mistakes here and there. It's like people don't even realize how good Dirk is, when they start applying that standard to everyone else.

It's gotten so bad that even when guys aren't actually making "mistakes," their head on a pike is being called for. Very frustrating.

[badfish22]

Originally Posted by Nowitzki4President

Went to that game as well. Great game to go to.

Where'd you sit?

Around 18 rows back from Spurs bench.

Love the new sound system too btw.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think the Barea and Boobie discussion is a fun one.

Barea, the undrafted pg slowly working his way into the league with hard work and the odds against him versus the naturally talented and athletic but raw rookie Beaubois. Who will win the fight of back-up pg supremacy? (voice of Howard Cosell)

The thing is, the fight right now is for playing time at off guard. Roddy hasn't played one meaningful minute of PG this season.

Now I have every confidence in the world that Roddy will one day (perhaps as early as next season) be the backup PG behind Kidd, but for now it's not even a discussion.

[badfish22]

http://www.nba.com/video/teams/maver...33026/?ls=iref

roddy interview

He really struggles with his English here.

[dude1394]

Americans in general really don't appreciate how tough it is to work in a foreign language. I had a japanese friend who was extremely fluent in english. However he said that even he missed about 50-60% of a conversation. Really tough to get there.

[Big Boy Laroux]

seriously, not everyone can be dirk - that dude speaks better english than about 90% of americans.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by G-Man

Roddy suffers from some the the same stuff we saw when Devin Harris was a rookie...blinding speed that he does not yet know how to moderate... ideas for passes but not quite the skill to execute them. Problem for Harris the rookie is the way Nellie jerked him around, in part because he was pissed he lost his real son, Steve Nash. We have to hope that RC has the coaching skill to bring him along without screwing up his head like Nellie and Avery did DH.

Pop was able to coach the rookie Tony Parker to a championship in his 1st year. Roddy may have as much talent, but he's more raw. The ball is in RC's court to develop him. I think starting him in JHo's absence is a great move. We will need his speed when the playoffs roll around

One week later and I have to revise most of what I said on page 1. RoBeau (french for Robo) is far more advanced that DH was at this stage. He's got a wide range of shots, from the 3, a mid-range jumper, and several different flip shots to get the the hole around shot-blockers. He shows and equal ability to break down defenses, but much more skill at passing out to teammates who got open because he draws the entire defense into the lane, chasing him.

I already see him learning to modulate his speed...something it took DH 2 years to get. Sadly Harris development was delayed because he missed a ton of games almost every year with injuries. I notice RoBeau doesn't just fling himself into the bigs...he twists around them, then flings those long arms up to lay the ball into the net. The kid has mad body control.

I was really happy to see someone found a quote of him being excited about playing defense, because he has a great body and foot speed galore to make himself a defensive terror.

It is possible RoBeau's game comes back to earth as teams learn to game plan to slow him down. It is also entirely possible, with the right coaching, that by the end of the year he'll be as good as Harris. Remember when they drafted Harris with the idea that Nash would train him? Instead, we end up with a kid who's just as fast and maybe more talented, being groomed by JKidd. I'm sure this is just what Donnie had planned all along.

All Hail Roddy Beau!

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

seriously, not everyone can be dirk - that dude speaks better english than about 90% of americans.

Took him 10 years and hundreds (thousands?) of interviews to get there.

[darkwitzki]

Roddy our future !