What do we do with Seth? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

tap2390 · 07-02-2017, 10:24 PM

I've seen various posters have different takes on Seth, and now I'm curious what the consensus (if there is one) is.

One on hand Seth is a late bloomer with a fantastic, varied offensive game, and is close to an elite shooter. He seems like a nice person and comes with some name recognition. He is an ideal sixth man in my opinion.

On the other hand, he will be 28 at the beginning of his next contract. He's not a guy with huge upside due to his height/wingspan, and the fact that he's best suited for the 2 guard. He will likely command significant money on the open market in a year. I also suspect he will take the highest offer as it is his one shot at getting a huge deal.

I personally feel we should move him now. I really can't fathom paying him $15-20 million a year next offseason, and would much rather use that money to lure someone like Avery Bradley. I think if we trade him now we'll be able to get a first round pick and/or shed Powell's contract, giving us more flexibility moving forward.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-02-2017, 11:08 PM

I wanted to trade him before the draft for a pick because this draft was a good draft. If the right trade came along I'd do it still but I think there could be desperate teams closer to the trade deadline that could offer us something better than right now.

mac222b · 07-03-2017, 02:47 AM

We need a bigger SG next to DSJ. Not sure how they'll fit. I guess we'll have a season to see

Fragism · 07-03-2017, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

We need a bigger SG next to DSJ. Not sure how they'll fit. I guess we'll have a season to see

If the Mavs need a bigger SG maybe they should go after Shabazz

rimrocker · 07-03-2017, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

We need a bigger SG next to DSJ. Not sure how they'll fit. I guess we'll have a season to see

Yeah....same as I see it.
Let them play together the first part of the season to see how they fit. My concern is they will get killed on D and Rick will be forced to move Curry to the bench moving Wes to the 2. I actually think Wes will be a great fit with DSJ though....at least short-term.
But I'm probably one of the few that doesn't see Curry or Wes as a long-term solution at SG.

The FO should be focused on building around Barnes/Noel/DSJ with players in that age group (19-25). Curry is a little too old but if he is a good chemistry fit then I'd be more than happy to pay him market price and include him in that group. I think his style of play will allow him to play well into his 30s much like JET.

Heezzi · 07-03-2017, 07:42 PM

Start Seth, trade Wes.

Underdog · 07-03-2017, 08:51 PM

Either you ride out Seth for the entire season and make a decision on him next summer, or you trade him now... Moving him at the TDL doesn't make much sense, since he's a cheap expiring contract who would only have value to a contender, and no contender is going after him unless he's balling out of his mind in Dallas -- in which case, we'd have more motivation to keep him than to trade him.

And I think the only way you trade him right now is if you think he's a poor fit next to Smith Jr. AND you can get a 1st for him (his value is sky-high at the moment)... Maybe you package him with Powell if there's a good deal on the table, but I wouldn't ship him just to shed a contract -- there's a decent chance that he's a late-bloomer like his brother (if last season is any indication). And of course you don't package him with Wes unless you're getting a good, young SG in return for the two of them.

Nah, at this point I think you just keep him through the season and see how he works with a core of DSJ/Barnes/Noel -- if he gels, try to move Wes' expiring contract next summer to create the space to re-sign him (or maybe free up space by declining Dirk's option, depending on what kind of contract he signs this offseason)... And if doesn't gel, just let him walk... I mean, we're not talking about Steve Nash here -- if he's not worth re-upping, then getting nothing for him doesn't really matter.

EricaLubarsky · 07-03-2017, 09:04 PM

Start Curry AND Wes. Wes is a SF. Curry is an SG.

If he continues to be a beast, you pay him. Same story as Terry.

BPo001 · 07-03-2017, 09:21 PM

Unless a deal comes up that is too good to pass up I think you keep him. See how he fits in with the rest of the core players. If it doesn't work than he walks.

SMC0007 · 07-04-2017, 08:10 PM

It's not a good idea to move Seth. He just had a nice breakout season. His age is not an issue

EricaLubarsky · 07-04-2017, 08:33 PM

It's funny, Seth is 26, played only 70 games for us (42 starts), and is a part of our new young core, but...

A player flounders for less than one season and we need to trade him because he's awful

A player shows flashes in less than a season that he could be an important piece of something special and people want to trade him even if a guy with his skill may not come around again for us.

Dude is our starting SG and part of a future we're building with Smith/Curry/Matthews/Barnes/Noel. If that five-man core gets it done, you keep it together. If not, you reassess.

SMC0007 · 07-04-2017, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's funny, Seth is 26, played only 70 games for us (42 starts), and is a part of our new young core, but...

A player flounders for less than one season and we need to trade him because he's awful

A player shows flashes in less than a season that he could be an important piece of something special and people want to trade him even if a guy with his skill may not come around again for us.

Dude is our starting SG and part of a future we're building with Smith/Curry/Matthews/Barnes/Noel. If that five-man core gets it done, you keep it together. If not, you reassess.

Good point.

And I hope your right about Wesley because I am guilty of slipping off his wagon. I'm still on the hook for crow this season if he returns to form.

tap2390 · 07-04-2017, 09:28 PM

I get your point EL, but we need to be realistic. Talent doesn't get it done in the NBA anymore. Elite talent does. That future you talk about is good for a first round exit at best in the West. (I will gladly eat crow if I'm wrong).

Why move Curry? Because our options next offseason will be a) let him go for nothing or b) pay him at least $15 million a year. How did the Celtics rebuild? Lots of draft picks and flexibility (to sign Horford last year and Hayward this year). Paying Curry that much money significantly hinders our flexibility. As I mentioned before, he'll be 28 at the beginning of that contract while the players we should be rebuilding around will be 20, 24, and 26 respectively. He's not an elite athlete, defender, or rebounder (less than 3 per game in almost 30 mpg last season). His +/- and win shares and every other advanced statistic indicates he's an average player (the majority show him to be worse than Wes).

This is not to sh*t on Seth by any means. He's obviously an elite shooter. There are players who overcome size to become elite SGs (CJ McCollum comes to mind) and if Seth puts up 20 a game this season I will be the first to quote myself and relinquish my armchair GM status (jk I won't, but I will eat crow).

Dtownsfinest · 07-05-2017, 07:47 PM

I don't get why you move Seth.....i'm not sure the trade value you guys think he has.....he has more value to us.

Bryan_Wilson · 07-06-2017, 11:03 AM

No clue what his trade value is either but if Korver at 35yrs old who was also on an expiring deal can get a late first I'm obviously not moving him without getting better than that.

Melonhead · 07-08-2017, 11:35 AM

You rarely get true trade value for NBA players. And with our bias we have a pretty high value of him. Especially someone like Seth who is undersized and possibly on a even bigger breakout. Ride him out he's earned that. See how he fits with DSJ. If it's a disaster let him walk in the summer. Its okay if we don't get a return on him.

Underdog · 07-08-2017, 12:23 PM

I do wonder what kind of value Seth has on the trade market, especially as part of a package...

Seth/McBob ($11.4m max return): probably won't find a better/cheaper option than a re-signed Seth, but I do wonder if it could net us a mid-to-late first rounder... Might be worth exploring around the deadline.

Seth/Powell ($15m max return): not sure why anyone would eat Powell's contract just to land Seth, but we could definitely get an impact player in this price range.

Seth/Matthews ($26.2m max return): you're not finding a buyer unless you include at least a 1st (and maybe not even then), but pretty much any player in this range would be worth it on our end.

rimrocker · 07-08-2017, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I do wonder what kind of value Seth has on the trade market, especially as part of a package...

Seth/McBob ($11.4m max return): probably won't find a better/cheaper option than a re-signed Seth, but I do wonder if it could net us a mid-to-late first rounder... Might be worth exploring around the deadline.

Seth/Powell ($15m max return): not sure why anyone would eat Powell's contract just to land Seth, but we could definitely get an impact player in this price range.

Seth/Matthews ($26.2m max return): you're not finding a buyer unless you include at least a 1st (and maybe not even then), but pretty much any player in this range would be worth it on our end.

I think Seth/Mejri might be attractive to a contender at the TDL as well.
For instance, if OKC is a top 4 team and is looking for more defense and offensive fire power they might consider something like Ferguson/Singler for Seth/Mejri.

SMC0007 · 08-07-2017, 09:01 AM

When was this?

http://imgur.com/gallery/4yEWo

EricaLubarsky · 08-07-2017, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

When was this?

http://imgur.com/gallery/4yEWo

That's hilarious

Melonhead · 08-07-2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Either you ride out Seth for the entire season and make a decision on him next summer, or you trade him now... Moving him at the TDL doesn't make much sense, since he's a cheap expiring contract who would only have value to a contender, and no contender is going after him unless he's balling out of his mind in Dallas -- in which case, we'd have more motivation to keep him than to trade him.

And I think the only way you trade him right now is if you think he's a poor fit next to Smith Jr. AND you can get a 1st for him (his value is sky-high at the moment)... Maybe you package him with Powell if there's a good deal on the table, but I wouldn't ship him just to shed a contract -- there's a decent chance that he's a late-bloomer like his brother (if last season is any indication). And of course you don't package him with Wes unless you're getting a good, young SG in return for the two of them.

Nah, at this point I think you just keep him through the season and see how he works with a core of DSJ/Barnes/Noel -- if he gels, try to move Wes' expiring contract next summer to create the space to re-sign him (or maybe free up space by declining Dirk's option, depending on what kind of contract he signs this offseason)... And if doesn't gel, just let him walk... I mean, we're not talking about Steve Nash here -- if he's not worth re-upping, then getting nothing for him doesn't really matter.

All of this.

Also OP, I honestly dont see 15-20m for Seth after what we've seen in this last offseason/whats available next offseason. 2016 was an anomaly, and I could see Seth being resigned for less than 15m.