2020-2021 Season thread

[SMC0007]

No game day thread?!! EL....get on it!

[GermanFan]

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

No game day thread?!! EL....get on it!

Isn't the game tomorrow?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Who said the Mavs won the draft?

I like what they did because I'm a big fan of teams who can defend and the mavs clearly drafted a few guys capable of defending.

But I'm not going to say they won the draft just yet.

I also disagree that Terry was the steal of the draft.

You just going to ignore Haliburton who dropped to 12th overall?

That was just about as much of a surprise as Terry dropping just one spot out of the 1st round wouldn't you say?

Kings fans will probably say they got the steal of the draft that late.

A draft can have more than one winner.

[MFFL]

The Mavs will be a winner in this draft if ONE of the rookies is a good rotation player within 3 years

[DIRK LEGIONS]

In 3 yr time LUKA might not be here.
I dont think he going to be loyal like Dirk and be happy making playoff every yr for 10yrs and losing in 1st or 2nd rd everytime or occasional trip to west finals and lose.

Mavs better start drafting talent and not reuse the same shitty formula of trying to find lightning in broken down or has been allstars like they did with dirk.

I dont think LUKA would put up with playing with has been like antoine walker van Horne or lattenter types.

Just my humble opinion he played for winners all his life.
Better build this team up now and draft and develop them at same time

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DIRK LEGIONS

In 3 yr time LUKA might not be here.
I dont think he going to be loyal like Dirk and be happy making playoff every yr for 10yrs and losing in 1st or 2nd rd everytime or occasional trip to west finals and lose.

Mavs better start drafting talent and not reuse the same shitty formula of trying to find lightning in broken down or has been allstars like they did with dirk.

I dont think LUKA would put up with playing with has been like antoine walker van Horne or lattenter types.

Just my humble opinion he played for winners all his life.
Better build this team up now and draft and develop them at same time

I think things would have to go very badly very fast for Luka not to sign the rookie max extension. I don't doubt that eventually he would leave if the Mavs haven't built a contender around him, but I would be very shocked that by year 5 he would be so frustrated with not winning a championship and only winning 50 games and making the playoffs every year.

Also, it seems to me that drafting and developing talent is exactly what the Mavs are doing. We'll see if any of the young guys pan out.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Isn't the game tomorrow?

Yea but I'm ready for it now.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by DIRK LEGIONS

In 3 yr time LUKA might not be here.
I dont think he going to be loyal like Dirk and be happy making playoff every yr for 10yrs and losing in 1st or 2nd rd everytime or occasional trip to west finals and lose.

Mavs better start drafting talent and not reuse the same shitty formula of trying to find lightning in broken down or has been allstars like they did with dirk.

I dont think LUKA would put up with playing with has been like antoine walker van Horne or lattenter types.

Just my humble opinion he played for winners all his life.
Better build this team up now and draft and develop them at same time

I don't think its worth worrying about. He is going to sign an extension.

I like how a few people are throwing out suggestions that his mentality is more like KD And Lebron than Dirk, where he is entitled to play for championships year after year. How about he carry his team...get really fit and hit free throws and focus on taking the Mavs to a championship. Be accountable for a franchise and give them the opportunity to build around you. If he wants to jump ship then so be it, it would be a bitch move but I would bet my money on him staying and being more like Dirk than anyone else.

[BPo001]

I can’t imagine Luka leaving before signing the rookie extension deal. He’d be leaving quite a bit of money on the table, no? I also don’t think the front office has done anything to prove to him that they aren’t trying to build the best team around him. The MBT has done nothing but makes moves to improve the team since he got here.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't think its worth worrying about. He is going to sign an extension.

I like how a few people are throwing out suggestions that his mentality is more like KD And Lebron than Dirk, where he is entitled to play for championships year after year. How about he carry his team...get really fit and hit free throws and focus on taking the Mavs to a championship. Be accountable for a franchise and give them the opportunity to build around you. If he wants to jump ship then so be it, it would be a bitch move but I would bet my money on him staying and being more like Dirk than anyone else.

Eh, I think players are "entitled" to play wherever they want. I am and always will be more for the players than I will be for the franchises or owners. The players are obligated to play for a team for the length of their contract and nothing more. And if that franchise fails to put a decent team around them, then I have no problem when they demand a trade. (This doesn't apply to a guy like Harden, who the Rockets have put very successful teams around and demands a trade after he destroys the team by forcing the CP3-Russ trade.)

Everyone seems to have a serious misconception about Dirk. Yes, Dirk was way more loyal than most. But he has all but admitted that if he didn't win that (totally unexpected) title in 2011, he probably would have left to chase a ring. Would anyone here blame him if he did?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BPo001

I can’t imagine Luka leaving before signing the rookie extension deal. He’d be leaving quite a bit of money on the table, no? I also don’t think the front office has done anything to prove to him that they aren’t trying to build the best team around him. The MBT has done nothing but makes moves to improve the team since he got here.

Exactly. The only way Luka would leave would be if the franchise somehow feel into complete disfunction. It would take a self-destruct we've really never seen before. The Mavs have at least 5 or 6 good years to build a contender around Luka. And I've said it before- if they can't build a contender around him by then, then they deserve to lose him.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Eh, I think players are "entitled" to play wherever they want. I am and always will be more for the players than I will be for the franchises or owners. The players are obligated to play for a team for the length of their contract and nothing more. And if that franchise fails to put a decent team around them, then I have no problem when they demand a trade.

Everyone seems to have a serious misconception about Dirk. Yes, Dirk was way more loyal than most. But he has all but admitted that if he didn't win that (totally unexpected) title in 2011, he probably would have left to chase a ring. Would anyone here blame him if he did?

If a team is not building around a franchise player, then they aren't worth following. If a guy chooses to bail for the easy road even when an owner is doing everything he can then so be it, but lose my respect for leaving.

I don't think I am in favor of players over organizations because it then takes guys like Dirk, Duncan and Giannis to keep smaller market teams going.

As for Dirk, yes, I would blame him because effort was made to put pieces around him. We were all on that journey with him, which made the top of the mountain so sweet. What makes people ultra fond of Dirk is that he stuck it out here and rose above the heartbreak years.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

If a team is not building around a franchise player, then they aren't worth following. If a guy chooses to bail for the easy road even when an owner is doing everything he can then so be it, but lose my respect for leaving.

I don't think I am in favor of players over organizations because it then takes guys like Dirk, Duncan and Giannis to keep smaller market teams going.

As for Dirk, yes, I would blame him because effort was made to put pieces around him. We were all on that journey with him, which made the top of the mountain so sweet. What makes people ultra fond of Dirk is that he stuck it out here and rose above the heartbreak years.

I just think it's silly to expect players to not play where they want to play or to refuse greener pastures because of loyalty.

It's a bizarre dynamic that only exists in sports. Any other job in the world, nobody is ever judged for leaving because they can make more money somewhere else, or they prefer to live in a different city, or there's more opportunity for advancement, or whatever. Hell, we encourage it.

But for some reason, in sports we expect athletes to put loyalty to a franchise over their personal wants and needs. It's especially ridiculous considering the players don't get to choose where they start their careers. So they're expected to be eternally loyal to an employer that they did not choose because... reasons? Hell, they're not even employees. They're contractors. Again, this dynamic does not exist anywhere in the world outside of sports.

And the loyalty or lacktherof is a two-way street. Franchises are "loyal" to the players that make them boatloads of money. The Bucks are loyal to Giannis because he's their meal ticket, not out of kindness, or because he's such a swell guy.

I guess fans feel this way because we have lifelong loyalty to the franchise and certain players, so we want or expect the players to feel the same way. But it doesn't work that way, never has, never will. Some guys are more loyal than others, sure. But players are not fans. This is their job. Not their leisure activity or favorite past time.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I just think it's silly to expect players to not play where they want to play or to refuse greener pastures because of loyalty.

It's a bizarre dynamic that only exists in sports. Any other job in the world, nobody is ever judged for leaving because they can make more money somewhere else, or they prefer to live in a different city, or there's more opportunity for advancement, or whatever. Hell, we encourage it.

But for some reason, in sports we expect athletes to put loyalty to a franchise over their personal wants and needs. It's especially ridiculous considering the players don't get to choose where they start their careers. So they're expected to be eternally loyal to an employer that they did not choose because... reasons? Hell, they're not even employees. They're contractors. Again, this dynamic does not exist anywhere in the world outside of sports.

And the loyalty or lacktherof is a two-way street. Franchises are "loyal" to the players that make them boatloads of money. The Bucks are loyal to Giannis because he's their meal ticket, not out of kindness, or because he's such a swell guy.

I guess fans feel this way because we have lifelong loyalty to the franchise and certain players, so we want or expect the players to feel the same way. But it doesn't work that way, never has, never will. Some guys are more loyal than others, sure. But players are not fans. This is their job. Not their leisure activity or favorite past time.

I don't particularly care for the comparison to the outside workforce. How many fans does the wal mart manager have? How many wal mart vests did we buy of his? Is it the magic of having a once in a generation cart pusher join your favorite walmart from childhood? Etc. You don't often get to choose where you start your career in any profession, Especially when you are fresh out of college. Sports are held to a different standard because its way different.

Giannis is not their meal ticket...not just. He is the city hero. Staying in a small market to make massive money isn't just doing the owner a solid. He wants max money and must feel confident that they are with him all the way and working toward building a championship.

Hopefully Doncic does the same and stays well beyond his first extension.

[x0x0]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't particularly care for the comparison to the outside workforce. How many fans does the wal mart manager have? How many wal mart vests did we buy of his? Is it the magic of having a once in a generation cart pusher join your favorite walmart from childhood? Etc. You don't often get to choose where you start your career in any profession, Especially when you are fresh out of college. Sports are held to a different standard because its way different.

Giannis is not their meal ticket...not just. He is the city hero. Staying in a small market to make massive money isn't just doing the owner a solid. He wants max money and must feel confident that they are with him all the way and working toward building a championship.

Hopefully Doncic does the same and stays well beyond his first extension.

DUDE! DUDE! Seriously, take a step back. Relax, take a deep breath and be nice to yourself, even when compared to Luka Doncic. Then take 20 seconds to ruminate over this fact of life. If you still feel the same after 20 seconds, find a life coach. Doncic is free to search for the betterment of his life, professional and personal, to his own accord and personal values. You the fan dont even contribute to pay his wages, the Owner does! What do you think your watching? "Soccer"? No clubs run by paying associates here pal, welcome to American sports. The only person Doncic has to please is called Mark Cuban, while he is the one paying his salary!

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by x0x0

DUDE! DUDE! Seriously, take a step back. Relax, take a deep breath and internalize that your´re a f@_king nobody, specially next to friking Luka Doncic. Then take 20 seconds to ruminate over this fact of life. If you still feel the same after 20 seconds, find a life coach. Doncic is free to search for the betterment of his life, professional and personal, to his own accord and personal values. You the fan dont even contribute to pay his wages, the Owner does! What do you think your watching? "Soccer"? No clubs run by paying associates here pal, welcome to American sports. The only person Doncic has to please is called Mark Cuban, while he is the one paying his salary!

Why so aggressive? Aside from that you are wrong. The fans do contribute to the players salary. The average WNBA player makes 100k. The average NBA player makes 7.7m. That is 100% as a result of fans. Because there are so many fans that attend NBA games, watch NBA basketball, merchandise, etc... Beyond the direct money involved fans are invested with time. Time is also money. Time spent on watching, reading, talking about the Mavs all promotes the NBA which leads to money for the players. It also takes time away from the fan to do other things. The example used by SMC is about the grocery store. How much time a week do we spend at the grocery store(an hour? 2?) and do we even want to want to be there(hint: no)? Do we look forward to the grocery store trip(no)? Compare that to the time spent talking/watching/reading about the Mavs weekly and the level of desire to do each of those things.

Luka is free to go wherever he pleases after the contract(or I suppose even asking for a trade at some point). And the fans are free to feel scorned if he left and pay to boo their asses off at him if they want(still contributing to the NBA by paying tickets btw while booing their asses off)- especially if the franchise did everything it could to make the player happy(even to the extent of being involved in roster and coaching personnel).

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't particularly care for the comparison to the outside workforce. How many fans does the wal mart manager have? How many wal mart vests did we buy of his? Is it the magic of having a once in a generation cart pusher join your favorite walmart from childhood? Etc.

And? This seems irrelevant. I'm not sure how that makes it any different. It's still a job.

You don't often get to choose where you start your career in any profession, Especially when you are fresh out of college.

I don't agree with this at all. You absolutely choose where to work. Your choices are limited and you have to go with whoever will hire you, but you absolutely do make the choice. You don't get drafted by a company that you don't choose and are then legally required to work there for years at a time. And THEN when your term of service is up, if you decide you want to go to another company for any number of reasons, people don't then judge you for disloyalty or something. In fact, you are expected and encouraged to move on at some point.

Sports are held to a different standard because its way different.

And I'm saying I don't think it actually is that different. We fans WANT it to be different. But it isn't. It's a business. We fans have emotional attachments wrapped up in it, but that doesn't change anything. It's still a business, and to the players, it's their job.

Giannis is not their meal ticket...not just. He is the city hero. Staying in a small market to make massive money isn't just doing the owner a solid. He wants max money and must feel confident that they are with him all the way and working toward building a championship.

Hopefully Doncic does the same and stays well beyond his first extension.

I'm not talking about the city of Milwaukee. I'm talking about he Bucks franchise. He's absolutely their meal ticket. And even from the city's standpoint- he's their city hero because he's awesome at basketball. It's based on his production, not because he's such a swell guy. You keep talking about loyalty, and I'm saying it's all transactional. Yes, personal relationships can be and often are forged under these circumstances, but it is still a business for everyone involved- including us fans. We have all these emotions about teams and players, but at the end of the day we are consumers and nothing more.

I'm not sure I'm properly communicating where I disagree with the mentality that you (and most sports fans) seem to have. I fundamentally reject the idea that players are somehow morally obligated to the franchise that drafted them. You said it yourself earlier.

If a team is not building around a franchise player, then they aren't worth following. If a guy chooses to bail for the easy road even when an owner is doing everything he can then so be it, but lose my respect for leaving...

As for Dirk, yes, I would blame him because effort was made to put pieces around him. We were all on that journey with him, which made the top of the mountain so sweet. What makes people ultra fond of Dirk is that he stuck it out here and rose above the heartbreak years.

There's a lot to unpack here. The thing about players taking an "easy road" and how Dirk "stuck it out and rose above the heartbreak" is sort of a separate issue and a complex one. I think for example there's a difference between what Lebron did in 2010 and what Durant did in 2016, but that's a separate issue so I'll set it aside for now.

What I don't really like is this idea that there is something sacred about the team that drafts you. Meaning, if that team is competent, then the player is somehow morally obligated to be loyal to them beyond their rookie contract. Or if its not bad morals, i guess it's just bad sportsmanship to sign with another team? You lose respect for that player if they choose to go somewhere else. Like, why? I don't think that's right or fair. It seems to me like fans just project these feelings of loyalty and this unwritten code onto the players because they naively expect the players to feel the same way about the team and the game that they do. From where I stand, a player's obligation to the franchise both legally and morally ends the moment their contract expires.

Look, I hope to god Luka feels the way you want him to. I hope to god he's a Maverick for his entire NBA career. If he leaves someday because the Mavs can't build a title contender around him, or even if he just wants to play in New York or something. Like, yeah, it would suck for me as a fan. But for him? I get it. We're allowed to feel bitter and scorned when a player leaves our team because that's part of being a fan. But where I draw the line is the idea that he owes something to us or to the Mavericks franchise beyond the length of his contract. There's this idea that players owe it to fans and teams to re-sign. I don't buy it. Here is what Luka Doncic owes us and the Mavericks franchise- professionalism and hard work for every day of his contract. That's it. The moment that contract expires, he owes us and and the Mavericks nothing. I will be tremendously disappointed if he leaves at some point. I will NOT however, think less of him as an athlete or as a person. That's something different entirely.

The only way I would think less of him is if he did sh*t like Harden is doing and behaved in an unethical, unprofessional way. But that's not really about team loyalty. That's about ethics and professionalism.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by x0x0

DUDE! DUDE! Seriously, take a step back. Relax, take a deep breath and be nice to yourself, even when compared to Luka Doncic. Then take 20 seconds to ruminate over this fact of life. If you still feel the same after 20 seconds, find a life coach. Doncic is free to search for the betterment of his life, professional and personal, to his own accord and personal values. You the fan dont even contribute to pay his wages, the Owner does! What do you think your watching? "Soccer"? No clubs run by paying associates here pal, welcome to American sports. The only person Doncic has to please is called Mark Cuban, while he is the one paying his salary!

Awwww so nice. Just a reminder to stay this nice to other posters.

[EricaLubarsky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfABTCyIJY4

KP a "full go" in practice. No December, but will most likely play in January

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfABTCyIJY4

KP a "full go" in practice. No December, but will most likely play in January

Great news. Here's hoping he shakes off the rust quickly.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Ugh Rich questionable for tomorrow's game with a strained left calf per Townsend.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Very small sample size, but so far Oladipo looks like his old self. His name has been floated around as a potential target for the Mavs for a while now. If this isn't a mirage and he's really back to all-nba form, then maybe the 2021 free agent class isn't a complete bust for us just yet.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Very small sample size, but so far Oladipo looks like his old self. His name has been floated around as a potential target for the Mavs for a while now. If this isn't a mirage and he's really back to all-nba form, then maybe the 2021 free agent class isn't a complete bust for us just yet.

Problem is we’d have to give up JRich and THJ unless we can dump Powell and Maxi or something. I’m not sure Oladipo is that much better than Richardson and will cost 5-10m more per year. If we want Dipo with JRich we have to trade for him and it will cost THJ, one of our young guys and a pick I would guess.

[Dallas41]

looks like curry is killing it again tonight

[EricaLubarsky]

Good for him.

I like Richardson

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Good for him.

I like Richardson

LOL

Why so much hate

Sure Richardson is solid.

But that doesn't mean we can't still cheer on Curry.

He's a good dude never caused any problems in Dallas.

[EricaLubarsky]

What makes you think in what I said that I hate Curry?

I said good for him.

He's an ex-Mav now, but I wish him well.

[EricaLubarsky]

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Dallas41

looks like curry is killing it again tonight

Gotta give credit where its due...that was a great pickup for the Sixers. Richardson was a bad fit there......Curry slides right in.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Gotta give credit where its due...that was a great pickup for the Sixers. Richardson was a bad fit there......Curry slides right in.

True - that's because they have some great defenders in their starting lineup, and needed shooting. We need shooting and defense. Just need to start Green to guard Harden (THJ will get roasted). in place of THJ. Have THJ come off the bench. Have JRIch guard Wall. There - that's a win tonight if we do that.

[mac222b]

I love Green but I’m not sure I’d start him on Harden. I would give a look and Iwundu too. But Green is a rookie and the refs will probably foul him out in 5mins with Hardens bullshit tricks.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Originally Posted by mac222b

I love Green but I’m not sure I’d start him on Harden. I would give a look and Iwundu too. But Green is a rookie and the refs will probably could him out in 5mins with Hardens bullshit tricks.

Iwundu would do a good job on Harden. I would love to see Iwundu or Green guarding Harden. sigh - not gonna happen, since RC will probably stick to what doesn't work, and he will expect a different result.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well in non-civil war news, KP is close to being back...

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/st...93043056734208

[EricaLubarsky]

Burke is sick...

Will not travel tonight to Denver

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Burke is sick...

Will not travel tonight to Denver

Burke has had a tough start to the season. I'm glad Brunson has stepped up to take command of the second unit.

[FreshJive]

From what Brad Townsend reported, it sounds like Rick is considering putting Tim in the Jason Terry role full time.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

From what Brad Townsend reported, it sounds like Rick is considering putting Tim in the Jason Terry role full time.

I'm generally not a THJ guy, especially moving forward if he costs $15M+ per year, but if he's going to be here long-term, I think that's the only role for him. He should still play with Luka as much as possible.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by spreedom

I'm generally not a THJ guy, especially moving forward if he costs $15M+ per year, but if he's going to be here long-term, I think that's the only role for him. He should still play with Luka as much as possible.

Terry earned 17% of the cap in 2010 (9.8million).

THJ is earning 15.1% of the cap in 2020 (16.5million)

Not saying that THJ is comparable, but just that inflation happens.

[VA-Mavs-Fan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Burke is sick...

Will not travel tonight to Denver

Maybe Green will get Burke's minutes? (that would be the new adjustment to second unit that I am hoping for). That would be fantastic. Give Green a chance - the kid can play.