What are the Mav's up to???? DB.com article

[dude1394]

The bottom line however is that 'ape has the stats on his side. He might even say SCOREBOARD.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Bayliss

For Nellie yes. For Avery, maybe not. Avery admits he didn't use Marquis because of the playoffs rolling around and he didn't have a feel for his game.

It's a big jump to go from not getting any minutes to speak of because the coach "doesn't have a feel" for you game to starting ahead of the player who was getting the lion's share of the minutes at your position. Marquis just flat out wasn't that good last year. Hopefully he will improve this year, but IMO it's not very realistic to expect him to jump ahead of Fin this year. Maybe next year or sometime after, but that's a huge leap for a player who hasn't enven played more than a couple of handfuls of good games in his NBA career.

[dirno2000]

LRB the gap between Fin and Marquis last year isn't nearly as big as you make it out to be. You also seem to be assuming that he's going to recover 100% from his surgery and not experience an age decline.

[Bayliss]

The bottom line however is that 'ape has the stats on his side. He might even say SCOREBOARD.

That would be fine if the defense held up when it mattered. But it didn't. Offense (not d) was the reason that team made it to the WCFs. Oh and a freak injury too but that wouldn't reflect on stats.

[chumdawg]

You know, I hear that a lot about that team. But I remember them getting some very clutch stops in that Sacramento series. In fact, I remember noticing in one of the very important games (Game 5, maybe?) that in the last two or three minutes the Mavs were getting all their points in the paint and Sacramento was reduced to throwing up, and usually missing, outside jumpers. I think Bibby even airballed one on a critical possession.

But regardless, I do believe that that '03 team was a lot better at getting critical stops than people give them credit for. I guess that all went to piss in the fourth quarter of Game Six against the Spurs...but the offense did an even better job there of playing dead.

[Nash13]

There's something else you got to remember about that team. It was two freaking years ago. Meaning aging players then are aging more now. Here's a list of players on that team who's had surgery since:

Finley
Dirk
Raef
Bradley
Najera
Van Exel

Except Nash, that was our playoff rotation. And with the exception of Dirk, none of those players have gotten better, most if not all got worse.

Stats aside, do you think that team could compete with the current team?

[chumdawg]

It's an interesting point you make, except that you left out Raja Bell, Adrian Griffin, and Walt Williams from the rotation.

Eh, who knows about these hypothetical this-team-versus-that-team debates. I tend to think that a Nash-Finley-Howard-Nowitzki top four is going to pretty damn tough no matter who you back them up with, though. Even with Nash and Finley approaching senior citizen status.

[dirno2000]

Out of that three only Bell is still a productive player. The league was so impressed with Walt's playoff performance that nobody bothered to pick him up.

The main problem with that team as I see it was the front line. I know you hate the “this type of team has never won argument” but I feel pretty safe when I say that a team with a front line of finesse players has never won and will never win a title. Raef actually called himself a finesse players that summer which, as far as I was concerned, was the last straw. Bradley is a 45% career shooter, he’s never managed to break the 50% barrier and his go to move is the 15-foot open jumper from the baseline…I think that qualifies him as a finesse center. Dirk is great but as power forwards go he can be pushed around (although he shows tremendous heart battling for defensive boards).

People point to Chicago as proof that you don’t need a good big man to win but if nothing else their centers were beefy and physical…plus they had Grant and Rodman at the 4. Same with Isiah’s Pistons. You can be a perimeter-oriented team but somebody has to do the dirty work…and it can’t just be Raja Bell.

[Nash13]

It's an interesting point you make, except that you left out Raja Bell, Adrian Griffin, and Walt Williams from the rotation.

And as far as Dallas went in the playoffs, the less those three were used.

[chumdawg]

I don't argue for one minute that that team woudn't have better off with a more physical front line. I do think that they came close enough to actually winning a title with their "finesse" frontline to effectively disprove any notion that it simply can't be done, but that is beside the point. The point is that I agree with you in full that they needed to upgrade this area.

They didn't do that. They didn't do anything even close to that. And I think it could have been done. At least with something serviceable, like the Chicago example you mentioned.

When they finally got around to moving in that direction (but can Damp do it by himself?) it came at the cost of the element that made that team what it was. If only they had added to the right pieces to that team, as opposed to taking it apart and creating one need while salving another, who knows where it could have gone. Of course it is certain now that we will never know.

[Pirate]

At this point, its all hypothetical anyhow. That roster is long gone, and its not like we have the option to bring it back.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Let's also not forget that the West only got much tougher after that year. Chum, you think this team's window is closing? Just take a look at that team and what happened in the West the next year. In 2003, LA, Sacramento, and San Antonio were the only real threats to us. The next year, Minnesota got involved. This trend has only continued. Sure, Sacramento, LA, and Minnesota aren't the threats they used to be, but they've been replaced by Phoenix (that's our own fault, but still) Houston, Denver, and maybe even Seattle. You take that into consideration as well as the fact that pretty much everyone on that team except for Dirk and Raja were aging, aside of course from LaFrentz who was injured the next year anyway, on top of never being too good to begin with. You consider all of those things, and you say that that team's window wasn't closing? Yet this one's is closing rapidly? What if we had kept that team together? I promise you, that team would not have duplicated its performance from the previous year. I honestly believe we still would've lost to Sacramento in the first round, although maybe it would've been in 6 instead of 5. Even if we could've gotten past Sacto, I seriously doubt we would've gotten past Minnesota, and I'm almost positive we wouldn't have stood a chance against San Antonio or the Lakers. So there we would be, no closer to a championship, probably much further away. You may not like the direction the team has taken, but something had to be done. Don't talk to me about closing windows, when the team you believe was so much better was full of aging, declining role players that supported three psuedo-stars; two of whom were also in decline and the best of which was a very incomplete player, still is in some ways. Yes, that team's window was closing rapidly, much more rapidly than this one's. If the roster hadn't been shaken up like it was, I'm convinced the window would be closed, even with Nash. Hell, the situation might be even worse; since Nash has left, Dirk has improved every aspect of his game. It isn't hard to imagine that Dirk would still be the same player he was 2 years ago if Nash were still here, not to mention that Nash was getting worn down here.