PG Mavs vs Bulls: Sucking Rebouding, Barea and miracle shots - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

wilmtalk · 11-20-2010, 02:16 AM

I anyone watched the game carfully it was obvious that Dirks ankle stiffened up on him in the fourth quarter and he couldn't jump. It was especially noticable on defense. He usually flys out on the shooter twice in the fourth quarter he only reached out his arm. He usually plays good defense in the fourth if he doesn't have 5 fouls. At the 6 min. mark he was off the floor for a short time. he never would come out under those circumstances. I believe he was just in for his passing and as a decoy and a spot up shooter if the opportunity presented itself. That is why they didn't go to him.

Those idiot announcers gave his defender credit for shutting him down,when it was obvious he couldn't jump.

BGMaverick9 · 11-20-2010, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Those idiot announcers gave his defender credit for shutting him down,when it was obvious he couldn't jump.

The ankle wasn't mentioned at all after the game. The guy was literally carrying the team, he needed some kind of rest...it's a big assumption to say it was the ankle.

It looks like adjustments need to be made, "For some reason, no team lets me catch the ball on the low box anymore, the teams are coming now," said Nowitzki.

He mentioned he's going to have to do more work with spot-up jumpers and working off the high post, basically pushing his way into the paint rather than trying to set up on the block.

GermanDunk · 11-20-2010, 03:28 AM

Very disappointing. I had a bad feeling before the game, but somehow i thought, that we were going to win by a small margin.

HiddenX · 11-20-2010, 03:33 AM

Another season ... and the Mavericks have still no "Plan B" if the opponent takes Dirk out of the game. Just sad.

Rick41 · 11-20-2010, 03:45 AM

Well by the looks of this thread, thank god I missed this game.

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 04:19 AM

Jason Terry has returned to being Jason Terry as we all knew he would.

He had an early season streak where he was terrific. Now he'll suck for 4 or 5 games. Then he'll hit another streak, then repeat.

We knew this was coming. This is what he does ever year, and this is why this team cannot rely on him to be a second option. And this is why it is so depressing that they have no other options and why Roddy is our only hope.

Because clearly Caron Butler has nothing. Marion should have been out there in the fourth. Marion was playing alright. I know Carlisle is just trying to get Butler going... but how long do we have to put up with "just trying to get him going" before the guy gets benched? Better to have Stevens out there than Butler at this point.

Haywood is even worse. The guy is a waste of space. It's like the Mavs have suddenly replaced him with Diop. And not Diop from the finals, Diop from the year before he was traded. That Diop.

When Haywood and Butler are out there it's literally like we have Diop and Josh Howard, at the end of their stints here, back. The similarities are horrifying.

It's time to start giving Chandler the bulk of the minutes if Haywood is going to keep sucking this much. Haywood absolutely KILLED them tonight. Or if you aren't going to bump up Chandler's minutes, at least try giving some to Mahimi. If Haywood does better in limited minutes then give him more. Otherwise he's killing you. Dirk is a better center right now. There were SO many times tonight where the Bulls would go in the paint and Haywood would literally be right there, but appear to be lost or looking the wrong way or basically standing around doing nothing and Dirk would have to try and stop them. Far, far too often Dirk ends up being the only defense in the paint with Haywood is out there.

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

Those idiot announcers gave his defender credit for shutting him down,when it was obvious he couldn't jump.

You mean the idiot ESPN announcers who still can't pronounce his name right even though he's been in the league for 13 years and has been a top 10 player for at least 10 of them?

If I have to hear them call him "No-Vitzki" one more time I'm going to puke.

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

No question. And we need Kidd to be consistent. He was invisible tonight.

In Kidd's defense he had basically no one to pass the ball to. No one was making cuts or doing anything on offense, all he could do was dump it off to Dirk.

That said, he wasn't great on the defensive end either. He looks so old and useless.

41mvp · 11-20-2010, 05:16 AM

We must trade JJ.Barea he is really sucker.
We lost another home match this is crazy.
If we can play in championship level.So far probably not!!!

Sportstudi · 11-20-2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Could you even get that for them?

No, other teams would ask us to throw in our draft picks just to take JJB and Butler.

Usually Lurkin · 11-20-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The ankle wasn't mentioned at all after the game. The guy was literally carrying the team, he needed some kind of rest...it's a big assumption to say it was the ankle..

If Dirk pulled the "oh, my pinkie" thing more often, maybe he'd get a lot more respect on air.

Axilla · 11-20-2010, 09:19 AM

didn't get to see the 4th... bout to rewatch this train-wreck

sefant77 · 11-20-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

If I have to hear them call him "No-Vitzki" one more time I'm going to puke.

Actually its Nowinzki and the NBA.com recap guy does it too and i was allready close to write an email why they pay money to such a moron.

Murphy3 · 11-20-2010, 10:00 AM

The team just isn't all that talented.

kg_veteran · 11-20-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

The team just isn't all that talented.

Arguably their 2nd best player is sitting it out right now. But, yeah.

jthig32 · 11-20-2010, 10:46 AM

I realize I'm getting just as predictable as the Barea people at this point, but I can't BELIEVE that Butler got 31 minutes tonight and Marion only got 24. It absolutely blows my mind.

For 90% of this game, Butler looked like a lazy, uninterested zombie. He floated and jogged through every offensive set. Marion got on the floor in the first half and IMMEDIATELY injected energy and life into the offense with his cutting.

I absolutely HATE Caron Butler's game, and now it's gotten to the point that it looks like he's pouting out there when he isn't getting touches.

There were a lot more things wrong with this game. Dirk was great offensively but I need my elite power forward to not get destroyed on the boards. It feels weird bringing that up with as poorly as everyone else played, but it was a big deal last night.

Chandler and Marion both played well. Haywood too. Everyone else was basically terrible, including the coach. I don't think he had much choice on playing Barea on a night like tonight, where Jet was awful and they needed the penetration. But playing Butler as much as he did was inexcusable.

Wow this team needs Roddy back, and it needs to move Butler for someone that will contribute something to this team.

jthig32 · 11-20-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

There's no doubt the mavs top 5 right now are Dirk, Chandler, Marion, Kidd and Terry. Somehow Marion and Terry get their minutes stolen by Butler and JJB. Carlisle is dumb and needs to go.

Jet played 38 minutes tonight. He is not having minutes stolen by Barea. Your Butler/Marion point is spot on, but the same thing can't be said about Jet/Barea.

There isn't an obvious answer to the Barea situation until Roddy gets back. Maybe Stevenson should get more minutes (and he has, but I don't think it was justified tonight), maybe the starters should play even more minutes. I don't know. Barea was terrible tonight but I'm just not sure that the other options are better right now.

But the Butler situation is ridiculous.

LetsGoMavs · 11-20-2010, 11:15 AM

Wow, just rewatched the game (shouldnt have done it in the first place...now i´ll have to live with this typical "post-Mavs loss feeling" for the rest of the day

) and seeing Butler out there clanking one jumper after another, really makes me miss J-Ho... .

And as weird as this may sound, J-Ho at least tried to mix it up from time to time, making him unpredictable for us and the opponent team.

Butler however just seems to be perfectly fine with anything he does on the court.
I well remember myself drooling over us trading for him and finally having a player who was forcing the issue...sheesh...what an utter disappointment he has been so far.

Healthy J-Ho >>> Butler.

jthig32 · 11-20-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Haywood is even worse. The guy is a waste of space. It's like the Mavs have suddenly replaced him with Diop. And not Diop from the finals, Diop from the year before he was traded. That Diop.

When Haywood and Butler are out there it's literally like we have Diop and Josh Howard, at the end of their stints here, back. The similarities are horrifying.

It's time to start giving Chandler the bulk of the minutes if Haywood is going to keep sucking this much. Haywood absolutely KILLED them tonight. Or if you aren't going to bump up Chandler's minutes, at least try giving some to Mahimi. If Haywood does better in limited minutes then give him more. Otherwise he's killing you. Dirk is a better center right now. There were SO many times tonight where the Bulls would go in the paint and Haywood would literally be right there, but appear to be lost or looking the wrong way or basically standing around doing nothing and Dirk would have to try and stop them. Far, far too often Dirk ends up being the only defense in the paint with Haywood is out there.

I really don't get the Haywood hate from last night. I thought he played fine. He's not playing nearly as well as Chandler, but that's more about Chandler than Haywood. If anything I thought the two games before this were the games where Haywood should be criticized because he wasn't rebounding.

I would like to see Chandler's minutes creep up over thirty, but he's going to have to get the fouls under control for that to happen.

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

It's the only team in the league where our superstar carries us for 3 quarters, yet we can't seem to get him the ball in the most pivotal minutes in the 4th quarter. It happened all the time last year, and here we have another case.

I'll never understand it... it pisses me off so much.

This happens all of the time in the nba, teams double the ball out of other peoples hands all of the time. Usually however that provides wide open easy shots or layups for the rest of the team..

Sooo.....use the double to make something happen away from the double, not sit there and run down the entire clock trying to get it to him. If he were a guard it could make some sense, he could come and get it.
If he were a low-post player, it would make some sense, he'd be on the blocks...

but crap...the dude is at the top of the key where even if he gets it, the double will take it out of his hands and force the pass.

It's a losing play...When they are doing all they can to take the ball out of dirks hands at the top of the key you HAVE to put him somewhere else.

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

So Marion only had 24 minutes. wow.

I am pretty dissappointed in this. To help assuage Caron's ego they put a winning combination on the shelf in New Orleans. I see no reason that Caron shouldn't have eased back in off the bench. He's not nearly good enough to be guaranteed a starting spot.

It showed a lack of cajones from RC imo.

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

This is true, but it's not really helping.

Sure as heck doesn't when he goes like 2-20 or something. Getting into the lane is all well and good and as you say you can really understand why RC tries it out. But JJB is just not playing that well. Neither is CB for that matter.

Last two games jet/jkiddo joined into the stink-it-up-a-thon. Heywood...well....

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsar

I think too many people are ragging on Terry, he played some really good D today and he's come through for us many times this year - I think he's much improved over last years Jet. Caron though... oh Caron, I think he's trying his heart out but he's just not that good and doesn't work well with our offense. Haywood is looking terribly lazy out there and wasn't looking to even sniff a rebound on a couple of possessions. JJB.... I want to gouge my eyes out every time he plays, sigh.

Jet did play some pretty good defense last night. He actually was the most effective player against rose...That rebounding differential however is all about want-to...And the bulls wanted to a whole lot more than the mavs did.

Kante · 11-20-2010, 12:21 PM

Yeah right:

“It wasn’t a throw up, I just shot it. A throw up is like, ahhhhh. I stepped into it and shot it. I shot it with confidence and it went it." -Taj Gibson

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The ankle wasn't mentioned at all after the game. The guy was literally carrying the team, he needed some kind of rest...it's a big assumption to say it was the ankle.

It looks like adjustments need to be made, "For some reason, no team lets me catch the ball on the low box anymore, the teams are coming now," said Nowitzki.

He mentioned he's going to have to do more work with spot-up jumpers and working off the high post, basically pushing his way into the paint rather than trying to set up on the block.

Interesting comment...but I'm not sure I agree with the dirkster....A clever coach can get him the ball in the low-block OR get a wide open shot for another teammate if they are doubling him.

Dirk does make it kind of tough because he's not bulky enough to hold his position and he's not a leaper enough to consistently go over the top...But a well timed play can get him the ball there.

Possibly a few plays instead of jkiddo free-wheeling it is needed.

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:52 PM

[quote=jthig32;1125986There were a lot more things wrong with this game. Dirk was great offensively but I need my elite power forward to not get destroyed on the boards.[/quote]

okay...??

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I really don't get the Haywood hate from last night. I thought he played fine. He's not playing nearly as well as Chandler, but that's more about Chandler than Haywood. If anything I thought the two games before this were the games where Haywood should be criticized because he wasn't rebounding.

I would like to see Chandler's minutes creep up over thirty, but he's going to have to get the fouls under control for that to happen.

The haywood hate is because the dude is averaging 5 rpg and has averaged about 2 pg over the last three.

I think your perspective may be a little off if you are going to bash the dirkster for "getting destroyed on the boards" while giving wood a pass for his great rebounding effort.

jthig32 · 11-20-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

The haywood hate is because the dude is averaging 5 rpg and has averaged about 2 pg over the last three.

I think your perspective may be a little off if you are going to bash the dirkster for "getting destroyed on the boards" while giving wood a pass for his great rebounding effort.

I'm not saying Haywood was great, I just felt like it was weird to harp on him this game. I certainly didn't think he killed the Mavs, as the poster I responded to said he did. I DID also mention the terrible rebounding he turned in the two games before this one. Haywood also scored some very key buckets late in the game. Seven points in 17 minutes is VERY nice production from a center for us.

As for Dirk, I am reluctant to criticize him when he has to shoulder so much offensively, but rebounding was the major reason we lost and he was a big part of the problem.

BGMaverick9 · 11-20-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As for Dirk, I am reluctant to criticize him when he has to shoulder so much offensively, but rebounding was the major reason we lost and he was a big part of the problem.

Carlisle talked prior to the game about how Chicago's motor is the highest level motor he's seen in the league this year. I think it was a perfect storm of events. It seemed like on 2-3 free throw situations the Bulls would miss the final one and Dirk and Wood would converge, more on Dirk's side and they'd take each other out and then on the other instance(s), someone just jumped over the top.

Like I mentioned to finish my recap, is this (like Memphis and another game or so) just fluky instances with the offensive boards or the start of a disturbing trend?

dude1394 · 11-20-2010, 01:23 PM

Haywood wasn't anywhere near adequate when we are getting our rear ends handed to us on the boards. He comes in the fourth and promptly pulls down....1 rebound...

For a guy who was trying to vie for a starting role, he's surely not playing like he's interested in getting one.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-20-2010, 01:58 PM

Could you imagine where we'd be if we HADN'T made the Chandler trade? I think he's been the second best player and by far the best defender on the team.

The sad fact is that we just don't know what we're going to get from Butler, Haywood, and Marion game to game. Seems like players aren't responding very well to "role acceptance."

BGMaverick9 · 11-20-2010, 02:06 PM

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2010/11...-bench-players

Quote:

Eleven games into the season, you might start to notice statistical trends and try to see if they're trending right or trending wrong. For two players, Brendan Haywood and J.J. Barea, the stats are not trending the way you want to see. Coming off the bench is clearly an adjustment for Haywood and he has been commended multiple times by his head coach on his acclimation to the move but the rebounding consistency appears to be an issue. Historically, J.J. Barea has been a 34% shooter from 3-point range but has struggled to start the year by shooting 14%.

b_o_r · 11-20-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Haywood wasn't anywhere near adequate when we are getting our rear ends handed to us on the boards. He comes in the fourth and promptly pulls down....1 rebound...

For a guy who was trying to vie for a starting role, he's surely not playing like he's interested in getting one.

It was never a competition to begin with and I think that is why Haywood is just so ho-hum out there. Chandler covers Dirk's lack of defense rotating perfectly.
Also, Haywood is not mobile enough to play zone. He is a one on one guy who can help occasionally on the weak-side.

Also, carlisle implemented the zone even when JJB wasn't on the court.

Interesting quote from Haywood:
“Offensive rebounds come down to team defensive schemes and effort so at the end of the day we got to go and get those rebounds and be much more aggressive than we were tonight.” -Brendan Haywood

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Chandler and Marion both played well. Haywood too.

Haywood? Are you kidding me? He was horrible. Maybe the worst player out there for both teams. What did he do that was good besides finally hitting one freethrow?

The Mavs utter failure in rebounding last night was largely his fault. He was completely unable to get any even remotely contested rebounds, and he was no help at all on the inside. He's also part of why Dirk (on a sprained ankle mind you) had such a hard time rebounding because a lot of the time Dirk would end up battling for rebounds with 3 Bulls by himself while Haywood just sort of stood there and look lost and confused. Haywood wasn't even blocking out properly. He's delivering some of the worst center play the Mavs have seen since Bradley.

BGMaverick9 · 11-20-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

Haywood? Are you kidding me? He was horrible. Maybe the worst player out there for both teams. What did he do that was good besides finally hitting one freethrow?

The Mavs utter failure in rebounding last night was largely his fault. He was completely unable to get any even remotely contested rebounds, and he was no help at all on the inside. He's also part of why Dirk (on a sprained ankle mind you) had such a hard time rebounding because a lot of the time Dirk would end up battling for rebounds with 3 Bulls by himself while Haywood just sort of stood there and look lost and confused. Haywood wasn't even blocking out properly. He's delivering some of the worst center play the Mavs have seen since Bradley.

I side with jthig on this. He scored some timely baskets that kept the Mavericks in contention and the rebounding issue isn't solely on the shoulders of Haywood.

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I side with jthig on this. He scored some timely baskets that kept the Mavericks in contention and the rebounding issue isn't solely on the shoulders of Haywood.

He scored two extremely easy, completely uncontested dunks and made a freethrow.

Anyone could have scored those. Dampier could have scored those. That doesn't qualify him as a good center.

BGMaverick9 · 11-20-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinemablend

He scored two extremely easy, completely uncontested dunks and made a freethrow.

Anyone could have scored those. Dampier could have scored those. That doesn't qualify him as a good center.

Are you sure about Dampier, you do remember the iron hands right?

SeriousSummer · 11-20-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Ultimately, I guess this is what I come back to as well. I've tried to convince myself that he is helping while Roddy is out, but it's hard to justify any more. Then again, if you give Barea's minutes to Stevenson or Butler, you're going to have nights when you have trouble cracking 80.

If you gave Barea's minutes to Stevenson and Butler, when Kidd was out the Mavs would be lucky to get the ball over half court. The Mavs have to get someone else decent to back up the point. You'd think some combination of Butler/Barea/Stevenson could bring in a better back up at the point--even as a pure salary dump.

Without some other way to score, this team is going to wear Dirk out by the All-Star Game.

cinemablend · 11-20-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

If you gave Barea's minutes to Stevenson and Butler, when Kidd was out the Mavs would be lucky to get the ball over half court. The Mavs have to get someone else decent to back up the point. You'd think some combination of Butler/Barea/Stevenson could bring in a better back up at the point--even as a pure salary dump.

I what was intended was giving the minutes Barea is playing at SG to them, and have Barea ONLY playing backup point.

The thing is right now Barea is playing both Backup PG and playing significant minutes at SG when Kidd is out there. That needs to stop.

mac222b · 11-20-2010, 03:39 PM

of concern is that Kidd looks worn out and the B2Bs are just begun. meanwhile tyhe Hornets just traded for Jarrett Jack. splendid.