How Can Pheonix Be So Good Without Amare? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Captain Disaster · 12-10-2005, 10:59 PM

How can this team be one game behind us (or 1/2 game pending tonight's game with the Clippers) without their scary center and with all the injuries they're suffering? Do they have a weak schedule right now? Anybody care to opine?

chumdawg · 12-10-2005, 11:39 PM

Steve Nash?

jleefilled · 12-10-2005, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Steve Nash?

I was actually thinking Eddie House, but I don't know, you might be right. ( ;

MikeB · 12-10-2005, 11:57 PM

How about 13 of 18 at home as one reason.
..and besides Amare what injuries?
Barbosa missed a few games and Brian Grant is out but that should have been expected.

MFFL · 12-11-2005, 12:01 AM

Phoenix has only played four back-to-backs so far and EVERY one of them have had one of the two games at home.

EricaLubarsky · 12-11-2005, 12:02 AM

they are wearing themselves out scrapping for everything, and they are very reliable on 3s at home, where they've played LOTS of games at home

They have played 13 at home, 6 on the road

barely won against Golden State, beat Houston sans McGrady, lost to San Antonio, and only really beat Utah and the Lakers. At home they've only beaten the Knicks, the Blazers, the Hawks, the Nugs, the hurting Pacers, the underachieving Nets, the lottery-bound Jazz (without AK)

At home they've lost against Dallas, Memphis, Detroit and Sacramento

The Crippler · 12-11-2005, 01:09 AM

exactly. Let's see them win a few on the road before we really see what's up with phx.

Nash13 · 12-11-2005, 01:20 AM

they lose to a good team. go figure.

vjz · 12-11-2005, 09:29 AM

Marion has been playing very well lately. His chemistry with Nash is pretty good.

But the biggest reason: 6 of their wins in the 9-game winning streak were against Toronto, NJ, Atlanta, Portland, Houston and NY. Those teams have a combined record of 34-81.

And the winning streak was sandwitched between losses to Spurs and Clippers (combined record: 30-9)

mary · 01-07-2006, 12:02 AM

Suns scored 47 in the first quarter against the Heat tonight. Nash has 16 assists in 3 quarters.

MavsFanFinley · 01-07-2006, 12:24 AM

The Suns just manhandled the Heat tonight. Still 4:50 left in the game and they're up 14. If it wasn't a 3 pointer it was a lob for the dunk. They've ran circles around them.

Let's hope they do the same to the Spurs tomorrow night and that the Mavs get revenge against Minnesota.

birdsanctuary · 01-07-2006, 12:34 AM

The Heat need to start worrying...not us... The Mavs need to focus on catching SA and winning the Southwest...

Paul Pierce

dirno2000 · 01-07-2006, 12:45 AM

Shawn Marion may be the most unique player in the game. I mean he's 6'7 and he's averaging 12 boards a game!!!

They couldn't play the way they play without Marion so IMO he's as valuable to the Suns as Nash.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-07-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Shawn Marion may be the most unique player in the game. I mean he's 6'7 and he's averaging 12 boards a game!!!

They couldn't play the way they play without Marion so IMO he's as valuable to the Suns as Nash.

No doubt Marion is every bit as valuble to them as Nash, perhaps more. It'll be interesting to see how good they are when Amare's back. No worry to me though, I sure as hell don't see them getting past the Mavs this time, Amare or no Amare.

sike · 01-07-2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Shawn Marion may be the most unique player in the game. I mean he's 6'7 and he's averaging 12 boards a game!!!

They couldn't play the way they play without Marion so IMO he's as valuable to the Suns as Nash.

with those monkey arms...and "go go gaget legs" he plays about 6'11" or better....

EricaLubarsky · 01-07-2006, 03:16 PM

Marion is good. Not playing a ton of hard games is also helpful. I mean Shaq was suffering last night, and the HEat were without Wade and W-choc so building a 24 point lead in a quarter and treading water isnt that big a deal against the Heat whose real star is Wade.

dirno2000 · 01-07-2006, 04:09 PM

Maybe, but the fact that they're only 2 games behind us in the loss column when Boris Diaw has logged the majority of the minutes at center is pretty impressive.

Milles · 01-07-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Marion is good. Not playing a ton of hard games is also helpful. I mean Shaq was suffering last night, and the HEat were without Wade and W-choc so building a 24 point lead in a quarter and treading water isnt that big a deal against the Heat whose real star is Wade.

Suns were also without their best player, Amare, their real star and also are still missing their third leading scorer, Leandro Barbosa. Sounds like a wash to me.

EricaLubarsky · 01-07-2006, 07:48 PM

Amare is the real star? I've never heard anyone in the know say that he's any more than the 3rd star and the icing on the cake

Milles · 01-07-2006, 08:59 PM

Here I thought that when the Suns gave Amare his extension this year, he was reported as the Suns franchise player. Nash acknowledges him as their, "best player". Sounds like a star to me, perhaps I have misconstrued your intent in the use of the word, star. Did you a mean headline type star, like T-Mac and AI, selling the most jerseys and shoes?

chumdawg · 01-07-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No doubt Marion is every bit as valuble to them as Nash, perhaps more. It'll be interesting to see how good they are when Amare's back. No worry to me though, I sure as hell don't see them getting past the Mavs this time, Amare or no Amare.

No doubt? No doubt? I'm here to tell you: Marion has played there quite a while. And they hit the radar last year, when Nash got there.

It will be interesting to see them with Amare back? It will be scary as all hell, that's what it will be. That team is BUILT, baby. Neither the Mavs nor the Spurs nor any other team with designs on the title wants to play them if Amare is back at full strength.

And that's just the truth.

Dtownsfinest · 01-07-2006, 11:55 PM

The thing about the West IMO is that no one has hit their peak. Everyone has room to grow. You have to think that at some point in the season the T-Wolves and Rockets are gonna have something that just clicks. Same goes for the Grizz. The West is gonna be fun this year.

dirno2000 · 01-08-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

No doubt? No doubt? I'm here to tell you: Marion has played there quite a while. And they hit the radar last year, when Nash got there.

Nash is, without a doubt, a vital cog. But understand, they can't play that lineup without the small forward who rebounds and blocks shots like a center.

In my mind Marion and Nash are equally valuable unless you think that Nash could take up the rebounding slack and guard the opposing teams 2-4 if he needed to.

chumdawg · 01-08-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Nash is, without a doubt, a vital cog. But understand, they can't play that lineup without the small forward who rebounds and blocks shots like a center.

In my mind Marion and Nash are equally valuable unless you think that Nash could take up the rebounding slack and guard the opposing teams 2-4 if he needed to.

Of course Nash couldn't do it on his own. But I see the ballhandler as the bigger difference-maker.

Not that I don't like Marion, mind you.

Milles · 01-08-2006, 12:51 AM

The Suns defeated the Spurs, 91/86 .... in the last 7 minutes Nash and Marion took over the game. Nash had 10 pts and 5 assists during that time, Marion scored 9 points. They do play well together.

grndmstr_c · 01-08-2006, 01:22 AM

First off, the one guy that hasn't gotten nearly enough credit for that team's success (this year, at least) is D'Antoni. He's my COY so far, and I don't think anyone's close.

As for the whole Nash/Marion thing, the +/- indicates they're pretty darn close in terms of their value to the team. Nash's net last year was +15, Shawn's was +14.5. This year they're at +1.5 and +.5, respectively.

And I'm 100% with dirno regarding how much the Suns benefit from Marion's ability to play PF. Without getting into a debate about how much of last year's turnaround was due to Nash and how much was due to several other very significant factors (D'Antoni's hiring, Amare's health, and the maturation of some talented young players being the primary alternates), one thing that's worth pointing out is that the Suns had been quite successful (relatively speaking) prior to 04/05 when Marion had played as the PF. In 02/03 they were -.9 with Shawn at SF, and +7.7 with Shawn at PF, and in 03/04 they were -5.4 with Shawn at SF, and -.5 with Shawn at PF. It could be argued (in fact that's sort of what I'm doing) that D'Antoni's use of Marion as the team's PF (Shawn played as the PF in a full 90% of his minutes last season whereas he'd played the majority of his minutes at SF in previous years) was as big a factor as any in the Suns' turnaround.

Dtownsfinest · 01-08-2006, 02:30 AM

I can't imagine how good the Suns would be without Nash. Well we've seen it. Horrible. A team with Nash and Amare could still contend. Marion's a key to their success because he does everything. There's nothing the guy can't do. But he's not the engine that makes the Suns go. Its Nash. I think Amare determines how far the Suns can go though. He's the dominant big man. They need all 3 players to contend but we've all seen what happens when Nash is not in that lineup and Barbosa is starting. It gets real ugly.