kevin garnett is officially going to the boston celtics. - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DelNegro · 07-31-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkat

i don't know if they've even 4-6 years....

Assuming all three stay relatively healthy I'd say that's a championship caliber core for at least 4 years. Allen's 32, KG 31, Pierce 29. I know all have missed some games the last couple years with injuries, but I just have a funny feeling that the collective health of all 3 will be much improved now that they are on a team with loftier goals than maximizing ping pong balls.

bobatundi · 07-31-2007, 03:29 PM

I think Pierce will turn 30 before the season starts.

Michael Finley is only 34, and he stopped being a "superstar" 3-4 years ago. I think Boston's window is very tight here--they've given up a lot of their youth & future draft picks, and any hope of cap room any time soon.

On a different note, Minnesota should pick up a nice trade exception from this--think they'd want some more players, i.e., Buckner & DJ, or does the fact that they just acquired 5 guys in this deal make that moot?

DelNegro · 07-31-2007, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

I think Pierce will turn 30 before the season starts.

Michael Finley is only 34, and he stopped being a "superstar" 3-4 years ago. I think Boston's window is very tight here--they've given up a lot of their youth & future draft picks, and any hope of cap room any time soon.

True, but that team is about KG. As long as he can play at the level he's at now they can handle any declines in Pierce or Allen.

Quote:

On a different note, Minnesota should pick up a nice trade exception from this--think they'd want some more players, i.e., Buckner & DJ, or does the fact that they just acquired 5 guys in this deal make that moot?

Hard to say. Buckner's essentially an older version of Trenton Hassell, so I doubt they'd want him. Mbenga's a possibility though.

Dim499 · 07-31-2007, 04:11 PM

The important thing about this deal is that Dirk Nowitzki will finally have a chance to be an Allstar game starter next year, depending on what Melo and Amare do next season.

alby · 07-31-2007, 09:43 PM

I hope we get a superstar to team up with Dirk.

foglemann · 07-31-2007, 10:01 PM

Ray Allen? Whoops
Paul Pierce? Whoops
KG? Whoops

Ah, anybody left?

alby · 07-31-2007, 11:02 PM

kobe
jermaine
gasol

antoinewalker · 07-31-2007, 11:10 PM

i wonder why garnett is wearing #5. is #21 retired or something?

alby · 07-31-2007, 11:50 PM

because #5 is clean.

alby · 07-31-2007, 11:52 PM

BOSTON CELTICS
00 Robert Parish
1 Walter Brown
2 Red Auerbach
3 Dennis Johnson
6 Bill Russell
10 Jo Jo White
14 Bob Cousy
15 Tom Heinsohn
16 Satch Sanders
17 John Havlicek
18 Dave Cowens
19 Don Nelson
21 Bill Sharman
22 Ed Macauley
23 Frank Ramsey
24 Sam Jones
25 K.C. Jones
31 Cedric Maxwell
32 Kevin McHale
33 Larry Bird
35 Reggie Lewis

Stranger · 08-01-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

True, but that team is about KG. As long as he can play at the level he's at now they can handle any declines in Pierce or Allen.

There's no way they compete for 4-6 years. A 30 year old KG couldn't get a poor Minnesota team to the playoffs. A 35 year old KG won't be able to carry the team if Allen and Pierce decline.

DelNegro · 08-01-2007, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

There's no way they compete for 4-6 years. A 30 year old KG couldn't get a poor Minnesota team to the playoffs. A 35 year old KG won't be able to carry the team if Allen and Pierce decline.

Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

Flacolaco · 08-01-2007, 09:19 AM

I didn't realize that KG has only ever won a playoff series one time.

What a waste of his best years up there. I would almost feel sorry for the guy if he didn't have all that money.

dude1394 · 08-01-2007, 09:34 AM

Well the NBA has finally managed to find a way to get Garnett in the playoffs.

1st - Moved Minnesota into the NorthWest conference away from Dallas, Spurs, Phoenix, Lakers....That worked out a little bit but then as expected UTAH/Denver passed 'em up.

2nd- Last chance.. Move him to the pathetic eastern conference. If he can't make the playoffs now, fuggedaboutit.

Dirkenstien · 08-01-2007, 10:05 AM

I'm a bit worried. In the NBA Finals who really wants to be looking at Pierce, Ray Allen, and Keving Garnett on the side of the court?

With these moves they become competitive for the next 3-6 years. When Dirk starts declining will we really have that much longer? Howard really isn't that much younger qnd aside from Harris' potential we don't have any future stars to help carry the load.

I'm just getting the feeling that we will need to add another star-caliber player to the mix to be hold an advantage on the big stage.

Big Boy Laroux · 08-01-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I didn't realize that KG has only ever won a playoff series one time.

What a waste of his best years up there. I would almost feel sorry for the guy if he didn't have all that money.

well, that year, he made it to the western finals. So he's won 2 playoff series, albeit both in the same year.

Usually Lurkin · 08-01-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I'm just getting the feeling that we will need to add another star-caliber player to the mix to be hold an advantage on the big stage.

me too. The Mavs, though, seem bent on the "we're good enough as long as our competitors get worse" approach to improvement. I do wonder how much the mavs might have had to do with keeping KG out of Phoenix.

jleefilled · 08-01-2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkenstien

I'm a bit worried. In the NBA Finals who really wants to be looking at Pierce, Ray Allen, and Keving Garnett on the side of the court?

This is both a scary thought and likely reality for any team that comes out of the West.

I don't think the Mavs need to necessarily get a second star, but I'm hoping -- and to some degree, expecting -- to see them do more than sign Bass and Fazekas this off-season.

alby · 08-01-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jleefilled

This is both a scary thought and likely reality for any team that comes out of the West.

I don't think the Mavs need to necessarily get a second star, but I'm hoping -- and to some degree, expecting -- to see them do more than sign Bass and Fazekas this off-season.

The summer has been in a failure thus far, not being able to add a second star to team up with Dirk.

jleefilled · 08-01-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

The summer has been in a failure thus far, not being able to add a second star to team up with Dirk.

We talked about this, man. The Mavs should have traded for Zach Randolph.

Dirkgreatness · 08-01-2007, 12:15 PM

So does this mean the Celtics are KG's team now?

dirt_dobber · 08-01-2007, 01:14 PM

Now that the balance of power in the East has shifted
do the Cavs need to add a player like Bibby to keep up.

Me thinks yes!

alby · 08-01-2007, 01:51 PM

or Nets adding Jermaine?

foglemann · 08-01-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

me too. The Mavs, though, seem bent on the "we're good enough as long as our competitors get worse" approach to improvement. I do wonder how much the mavs might have had to do with keeping KG out of Phoenix.

To true Lurkin. Reminds me of Jon Daniels comments with BaD Radio this past offseason where he said that since the other teams in the AL West didn't improve much, they didn't feel the need to do anything drastic. I feel our team is good, but 67 wins doesn't mean much. You have to remind yourself that each season is a new one and has nothing to do with the last. BUT, seems like Avery, Donnie, and Cuban don't see it that way.

Flacolaco · 08-01-2007, 01:58 PM

Vegas seems to think the Mavs have the best odds to win it all next year.

Between Avery, Donnie, and the MGM Grand, that's good enough for me.

alby · 08-01-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Vegas seems to think the Mavs have the best odds to win it all next year.

Between Avery, Donnie, and the MGM Grand, that's good enough for me.

trade JET

Stranger · 08-01-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

You are forgetting Devin, who is younger than Howard. However, I do not think the Mavs have a 4-6 year window by any means. I don't necessarily expect them to really be competing for a championship if they don't win it in the next three years.

I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.

Flacolaco · 08-01-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

You are forgetting Devin, who is younger than Howard. However, I do not think the Mavs have a 4-6 year window by any means. I don't necessarily expect them to really be competing for a championship if they don't win it in the next three years.

I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.

Do you get the horrible feeling that TD is capable of proving you wrong?

kingmalaki · 08-01-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

I think you are seriously over-rating the age at which basketball players can be truly at the top of the game. Can you name the last player besides MJ to lead a team to a championship past age 32? Magic won his last Championship at 29. Bird won his at 30. Hakeem won one at 32. Kareem won several late, but he had Magic. Shaq was 30 when he won his last Finals MVP.

Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31. Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

[/quote]And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.[/QUOTE]

Yeah they will be super thin, but how deep do you really have to be in the East? They have 3 stars and just need role players to hit open shots and play defense. Were the Cavs really a deep team?

alby · 08-01-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31. Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

And don't forget how thin that Celtics team is going to be. With max salaries for Allen, KG, and Pierce they are only going to be carrying minimum-type guys on the bench. That means a lot of minutes throughout the season for aging guys.

Yeah they will be super thin, but how deep do you really have to be in the East? They have 3 stars and just need role players to hit open shots and play defense. Were the Cavs really a deep team?

kingmalaki for the win

alby · 08-01-2007, 08:10 PM

having two superstars on one team was pretty normal back in the 80s

as the league added more franchises, the teams and the talent became watered down.

having three superstars on one team today is the definition of being stacked.
its equal to having four maybe even five legitimate stars during the magic/bird days, crazy.

although, this team scares the hell out of me--don't give them the title yet, the suns have had a stacked roster for the last 3 years and they don't have a ring to show for it yet so who knows (although I don't count Marion as a superstar).

Tokey41 · 08-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Can anyone name an SG that didn't decline after hitting the age Allen is at now other than Reggie Miller? Simmons is feeling good baout having Garnett now but before that took place he was about to have a stroke thinking about how badly Allen's game is going to deline either this year or the next. History doesn't lie, Celtics fans should be praying that Allen has one good year left to grasp for a title.

On top of that... the Celtics are paper thin! The logical thing to do here is try and coast through the regular season just enough to get into the playoffs and then unleash hell with the big three. They shouldn't try to be #1 for a full 82 game schedule, especially when their only 3 weapons are that old.

mkat · 08-01-2007, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Considering where Allen and Pierce would be declining from, that being an All-Star level, they should still be solid contributors at that age. Besides, Boston's big 3 aren't much older than the Mavs core, save Josh Howard. Do the Mavs only have 4-6 years left of competitive basketball with this group?

yeah, i'd say they do. especially if they keep having off seasons like this one.

Stranger · 08-02-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingmalaki

Magic last won at 29 because his team got worse. He balled until he retired (early at that) and carried LA to the Finals at 31.

Of course his team got worse as they aged. The Celtics will do the same.

Quote:

Stockton & Malone were 34 and 33 when they got to their first Finals (losing to MJ). They barely beat my Rockets in 6 on a buzzer beater, and our big 3 at the time were 34, 34 and 33. Hakeem and Drexler were both 32 when they won it together. Older stars can get it done if they are in good health, and KG and Pierce really haven't had many injury issues.

Don't forget the ages we are talking about here. The limit was 4-6 years. In that time, KG will be between 35-37, Pierce will be 34-36, and Ray Allen will be 36-38. The highest age you've cited is 34.

Quote:

The logical thing to do here is try and coast through the regular season just enough to get into the playoffs and then unleash hell with the big three. They shouldn't try to be #1 for a full 82 game schedule, especially when their only 3 weapons are that old.

It's really hard to win without home court advantage, even when you've got great stars. Look at the Heat this year. I know Hakeem did it, but it isn't common. If they rest their guys during the regular season, they are going to be relying on big contributions from minimum-salaried players, and that simply won't get it done.

kingmalaki · 08-02-2007, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Of course his team got worse as they aged. The Celtics will do the same.

The Lakers entire core got old at the same time, and they replaced their second best player (Kareem) with a rookie. Not to mention all the extra games played because they went to the Finals 8 times in the 80's. Yet Magic still got them to the Finals at 31.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

Don't forget the ages we are talking about here. The limit was 4-6 years. In that time, KG will be between 35-37, Pierce will be 34-36, and Ray Allen will be 36-38. The highest age you've cited is 34.

But all of those players are under 34 for the next season or two. I think their window will probably decrease as each year passes, but maybe not...since I would expect them to be active in the free agent game, and I would expect players to want to play there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stranger

It's really hard to win without home court advantage, even when you've got great stars. Look at the Heat this year. I know Hakeem did it, but it isn't common. If they rest their guys during the regular season, they are going to be relying on big contributions from minimum-salaried players, and that simply won't get it done.

Great teams don't need homecourt. The Cavs didn't have homecourt this year. The Heat didn't have it last year. Y'all didn't have it last year when you beat SA. Y'all had it this year. Etc....

I'm not saying I expect Boston to win a title because SA and Pho have a big three as well, supported by a better supporting cast. But I really don't see why they can't come out of the East...and anything can happen in the Finals.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 08-10-2007, 09:03 AM

According to the Boston Globe, Billups, one of Kevin Garnett's good friends, helped sway the big man to join him in the Eastern Conference. Garnett sought counsel from two of his closest friends in the NBA, Billups and the Hawks' Tyronn Lue while contemplating the move from Minnesota to Boston. At first Garnett did not want to leave Minnesota but in the end realized a trade would be best for the Timberwolves and his own future. Detroit Free Press

Lue told the Globe: "I talked to KG and it was tough at first because he's so loyal to Minnesota, his family, friends, and the fans. All he knew was Minnesota for the last 12 years. I thought Boston would be a great situation, a perfect situation with Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. I thought automatically they'd be in the Eastern Conference finals with KG. He thought about it and asked, 'You think so?' I said, 'Yeah.' "Then, Chauncey came out and said, 'You have to take the best thing for you and that's playing in Boston, even though we'd be in the same conference and play four times a year.' We definitely convinced him to choose Boston because two great players were already in place. Adding KG and being in the Eastern Conference, it'd be easier to win. "Then, KG asked me, 'What about the city?' I said, 'You don't go out anyway, so it doesn't matter. You don't go out of the house. You could play in Alaska.' He's like, 'Yeah, you're right.' " Detroit Free Press