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Old 06-21-2009, 09:51 PM   #1
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I have to admit I was very surprised I didn't see any thread on the ongoing Iran election revolts.


I don't have much to add, but thought it needed to have a thread at the very least. A lot of very brave people are fighting back right now.
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Old 06-21-2009, 09:54 PM   #2
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VIVA LA دور، دوران کامل، انقلاب !
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Old 06-21-2009, 10:48 PM   #3
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I was also surprised that there was no thread. Hey, I think this is probably a topic we can't really argue about. Good.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:52 AM   #4
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yes, I'm expecting that we all agree on Iran.

the citizens of iran who are risking their lives by participating in the protests are the true revolutionaries, not the religious elite who use the power of the state to suppress them. the elite are truly nothing more than 21st centiry fascist.

what there might be disagreement on is how our government should react to the situation in iran. it is a difficult balancing act to be supportive but also not to become a player in an internal affair.

so far we seem to have done just that. at the same time if we can provide aid to any country's citizens in their desire for free speech and basic rights, we should.

iran is just a bit more difficult due to the history.
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Old 06-22-2009, 10:12 AM   #5
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Iran and North Korea are two countries that most of our attention should be focused on right now. I agree.

Let me apologize in advance for what I'm about to post.... but everytime I see the name of that country a certain song pops in my head and I can't make it stop...

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Old 06-22-2009, 11:02 AM   #6
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I am praying for those standing up against the elitist Iranian extremists.

What we are seeing as relative to the freedoms won in Iraq thanks to the Allies liberating that nation.

No it may not have a "Direct" tie, but no doubt that there people over there who have found out that democracy is a good thing and thus the concept has carried its way into Iran and thus a large number of people are trying to gain freedom within Iran.

This is what was expected once the seed of Freedom was planted in Iraq.

Now the fear is that this overwhelming government control by Iran is the direction that Obama and ACORN are trying to take us.

My apologies to all those of you who support the meathead up there in the White House, but he's done a world of hurt to this here country. We can only hope that we don't wind up in the same boat as them there Iranians.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:06 AM   #7
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My apologies to all those of you who support the meathead up there in the White House, but he's done a world of hurt to this here country. We can only hope that we don't wind up in the same boat as them there Iranians.
Are you serious? Or.....

wat?
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:15 AM   #8
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Are you serious? Or.....

wat?
Would yous stifle yourself
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:18 AM   #9
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Would yous stifle yourself
You first.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:29 AM   #10
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92baddad pukes in yet another thread.
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Old 06-22-2009, 11:44 AM   #11
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u2,

lighten up...I'm having a little fun Archie Bunker style.

Look, we all know that I can't stand President Obama and that I think he and his cronies are harming this great nation. I don't like the bailout policies, I believe ACORN is a criminal organization and can't believe the government has them lined up to get some $8 Billion in Tax money to do what they do. I see American Protesters being ridiculed and even in some cases escorted out and away from the political events taking place in America.

It's as if, it's only okay to be liberal, but the minute you voice a conservative ideal you get called some type of name (Racist, Stupid, etc...)

Look no doubt there are some right wing wacho's out there, just as there are some left wing nuts...saddly many of those nuts are now running the country and there doesn't appear to be ANY middle ground.

Now, back on this here main thread topic...you've got a guy and a government over in Iran that is trampling on the concept of democracy. There are threats of death to those who oppose the current rule, yet a large number of men, women and children remain courageous and are standing up for their freedom. Not only standing up, but sitting down peacefully...while a tyrannical government tries to use force to remove the opposition.

It is important for Iran and for the middle-east that the opposition gain ground and ultimately change the way that nation is governed. It's actually important to the concept of some level of world peace.

It's also important that Americans pay attention, as the Iranian government is indeed blaming America...while we have NO DIRECT involvment what so ever. However, it is clear that our ideals and subsequent actions that have helped to shape a new Iraq are indeed influencing the things taking place in Iran.

American Freedom and Democracy is taking shape in the Middle East...We call it American...but perhaps it's better to simply call it Freedom and Democracy.

I believe President Bush has made some type of comment regarding Freedom taken on a life of its own. Clearly we are seeing this take place. This actually reminds me of President Reagan and his proclamation to "Tear Down that Wall"

We see the legacy of President Reagan is the dismantling of Communism...while we are now seeing the legacy of President Bush is the initial Democracy in the middle east!!!

Now that may not be the way the liberal media reports it...but no doubt that is what is taking place and we were fortunate that we had such a strong leader in the White House over the past 8 years!!!
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Old 06-22-2009, 12:06 PM   #12
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Old 06-22-2009, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
I am praying for those standing up against the elitist Iranian extremists.

What we are seeing as relative to the freedoms won in Iraq thanks to the Allies liberating that nation.

No it may not have a "Direct" tie, but no doubt that there people over there who have found out that democracy is a good thing and thus the concept has carried its way into Iran and thus a large number of people are trying to gain freedom within Iran.

This is what was expected once the seed of Freedom was planted in Iraq.

Now the fear is that this overwhelming government control by Iran is the direction that Obama and ACORN are trying to take us.

My apologies to all those of you who support the meathead up there in the White House, but he's done a world of hurt to this here country. We can only hope that we don't wind up in the same boat as them there Iranians.
ok, so I take it back, clearly there is not agreement on Iran....

first, Iran has held elections for decades, way before the invasion of iraq. so no, you are totally incorrect on the connection between the iraq and the current situation in iran.

as for the attempt to tie together obama, acorn and the "overwhelming government control by Iran", all I can say is do you actually believe what you post? for if you do clearly you do not have a rational view of the issues. linking these together is about as ridiculous as it gets.

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Old 06-22-2009, 02:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
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ok, so I take it back, clearly there is not agreement on Iran....

first, Iran has held elections for decades, way before the invasion of iraq. so no, you are totally incorrect on the connection between the iraq and the current situation in iran.

as for the attempt to tie together obama, acorn and the "overwhelming government control by Iran", all I can say is do you actually believe what you post? for if you do clearly you do not have a rational view of the issues. linking these together is about as ridiculous as it gets.
You're talking about the viewpoints of an admitted cocaine abuser...

Just sayin'...
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Old 06-22-2009, 03:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavdog View Post
ok, so I take it back, clearly there is not agreement on Iran....

first, Iran has held elections for decades, way before the invasion of iraq. so no, you are totally incorrect on the connection between the iraq and the current situation in iran.

as for the attempt to tie together obama, acorn and the "overwhelming government control by Iran", all I can say is do you actually believe what you post? for if you do clearly you do not have a rational view of the issues. linking these together is about as ridiculous as it gets.
Linked and similarities are two different things.

Of course Obama's ACORN has nothing to do with the Iranian Government, but the similarities are indeed there. Now if you have information linking the two together, then please share your intel.
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Old 06-22-2009, 04:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92bDad View Post
Linked and similarities are two different things.
you can nuance it all you wish, but the fact is that iran has conducted elections (that's democracy, isn't it?) for decades prior to the invasion of iraq and the removal of saddam hussein. there is no, repeat NO connection, link or similarity between our actions in iraq and what is occuring in iran.

the election in iran isn't about any fundamental shift in the way that country is going to conduct itself going forward, all the candidates advocate continuing their nuclear program, the structure of the current government in iran (an islamic theocracy) and also the support of terrorist organizations such as hizbollah and hamas...in fact the so called "reformist" candidate was the original proponent of the nuclear program and the strategy with hizbollah in lebanon.

Quote:
Of course Obama's ACORN has nothing to do with the Iranian Government, but the similarities are indeed there. Now if you have information linking the two together, then please share your intel.
wat? YOU make the assertion "Now the fear is that this overwhelming government control by Iran is the direction that Obama and ACORN are trying to take us", and you want ME to "share [the] intel"????

ok, here's the intel: you make ridiculous comments that, when confronted with the absurdity, are impossible to support.

why don't you fill us in on "the similarities" bewteen iran and acorn? or better yet the "direction" that "iran and obama...are trying to take us"?

well?

really, I should just ignore this absurdity, but it's just too ridiculous to ignore.

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Old 06-22-2009, 08:53 PM   #17
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funny stuff. of course, we can laugh about him, I'm sure he isn't as funny to the people in iran who are being stomped on by his henchmen and thugs..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3puJ...eature=channel
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Old 06-23-2009, 01:24 AM   #18
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It's good to see the people of Iran stand up for freedom and what's right. To stand for Neda. Who knows the out come but Neda will always be remembered and people that stood up to wrong that will bring justice and freedom, either now or later.
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:55 PM   #19
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Son's Death Has Iranian Family Asking Why
By FARNAZ FASSIHI
TEHRAN—The family, clad in black, stood at the curb of the road sobbing. A middle-aged mother slapped her cheeks, letting out piercing wails. The father, a frail man who worked as a doorman at a clinic in central Tehran, wept quietly with his head bowed.

Minutes before, an ambulance had arrived from Tehran's morgue carrying the body of their only son, 19-year-old Kaveh Alipour.

On Saturday, amid the most violent clashes between security forces and protesters, Mr. Alipour was shot in the head as he stood at an intersection in downtown Tehran. He was returning from acting class and a week shy of becoming a groom, his family said.

The details of his death remain unclear. He had been alone. Neighbors and relatives think that he got trapped in the crossfire. He wasn't politically active and hadn't taken part in the turmoil that has rocked Iran for over a week, they said.

"He was a very polite, shy young man," said Mohamad, a neighbor who has known him since childhood.

When Mr. Alipour didn't return home that night, his parents began to worry. All day, they had heard gunshots ringing in the distance. His father, Yousef, first called his fiancée and friends. No one had heard from him.

At the crack of dawn, his father began searching at police stations, then hospitals and then the morgue.

Upon learning of his son's death, the elder Mr. Alipour was told the family had to pay an equivalent of $3,000 as a "bullet fee"—a fee for the bullet used by security forces—before taking the body back, relatives said.

Mr. Alipour told officials that his entire possessions wouldn't amount to $3,000, arguing they should waive the fee because he is a veteran of the Iran-Iraq war. According to relatives, morgue officials finally agreed, but demanded that the family do no funeral or burial in Tehran. Kaveh Alipour's body was quietly transported to the city of Rasht, where there is family.

Everyone in the neighborhood knows the Alipour family. In addition to their slain son, they have two daughters. Shopkeepers and businesses pasted a photocopied picture of Mr. Alipour on their walls and windows. In the picture, the young man is shown wearing a dark suit with gray stripes. His black hair is combed neatly to a side and he has a half-smile.

"He was so full of life. He had so many dreams," said Arsalan, a taxi driver who has known the family for 10 years. "What did he die for?"

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Old 06-24-2009, 10:30 AM   #20
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a little perspective on democratic traditions in Iran....

Elections do go back quite some time in Iran. Back in the day the Iranians elected a fellow by the name of Mohammad Mosaddeq. Mosaddeq wasn't a hardcore fundy muslim but he was a bit of a lefty who got a little to cozy with the commies before nationaizing the oil fields....

big mistake....

So the United States of America did what empires on the rise are wont to do, it flexed a little muscle and rid itself of the troublesome democratic government of Iran in favor of a fascist dictator by the name of Reza Shah or something like that (aka, the Shah of Iran). This dude was a prick, maybe not top 10 crazy evil but an anti-democratic autocrat nonetheless. Most importantly, he was our dude so the oil started flowing again and everybody was happy (well...not the iranian people who supported Mosaddeq and certainly not the Shia who got the shaft by the Shah, but you know what I mean..."everybody" meaning the US and British Government).

Then along come mullahs, who are more than just a little sick of the US puppet government in Iran, and they kick our asses out....sort of....they take a bunch spooks and "diplomats" hostage first, but sooner or later the ragheads were in and we were out.

Not too long after the mullahs kicked us out, Iraq invaded Iran so we ran to help our man Saddam by giving him some WMDs and stuff, but that's a whole 'nother episode in US duplicity.

anyhoo....like I was saying, Iran has had a long history of holding democratic elections and the US has had a long history of thwarting democracy in Iran in pursuit of our national interests. Everybody on earth is well aware that the US has actively and forcibly fought the rise of democracy in the mid-east and especially Iran ... at least everybody on earth who hasn't been burdened with a US public education.

We the people are for the most part quite ignorant of our history of opposition to democracy in Iran, but in the media they know it but manage nonehtless a daily display of doublethink (to forget any fact which is inconvenient). On those rare occasions when the real events are recalled....

Well...consider Barrack the Absurd's remarks in Cairo:

Quote:
...Iran has defined itself in part by its opposition to my country, and there is indeed a tumultuous history between us. In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically-elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I have made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward.
How dare those bastards play a role in acts of violence against US troops who just happened to be admiring the scenery in the heart of mesopotamia!!! That's a bit like saying "there's no fighting in the war room" only without the dark and sardonic sense of irony. the unmitigated gall...it's kind of like he's saying, "I know we bent you over and raped you hard, but we're willing to forgive the fact that you fought back while we were raping you. It's time for you to quit being such haters."

Nowadays in those rare times when someone (some neocon) does acknowledge our past history in the mid-east, they generally attach a "but we made mistakes in the past and we're not doing that any more" type of qualifier to our role as benevolent hegemon. This is complete bullshit, but at least it's a start.

anyhoo...this is why they don't hate us for our freedom, they hate us because we're full of shit and they know it. That we don't recognize it of ourselves makes us more full of shit and easier to hate.

addendum...

Quote:
It's good to see the people of Iran stand up for freedom and what's right.
I can readily imagine how an iranian, knowledgdable of the history, might respond. Something like...."Who the hell are you to talk to me about standing up for freedom and what's right? Go get a f____ clue and then get back to me you ignorant piece of s______."

Sorry to pick on you jr, I understand you're probably ignorant as a stump of the history of the US in the mid-east, but this sort of attitude is precisely what I meant when I said that we don't recognize how full of shit we are makes us even more full of shit and easier to hate. Arrogance born of abject ignorance is not an attractive quality.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:39 PM   #21
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just a couple of points to your comments alex...

the contry of iran, or persia as it was known before the pahlavi shah renamed it, had a monarchy for a couple of eons. as most countries who had monarchies did, persia wanted to toss the suckers out and institute a representitive government who were elected by the people.

as you mentioned, the representitive government didn't want to adhere to the ridiculous oil contracts the british had imposed, and that's when the british (with the cia's help) threw out the elected government and brought back the monarchy.

the monarchy were shia, just like the majority of persians. but they wanted a modern country rather than the fundamentalist backward society the mullahs wished to continue with. so it became a constant battle between the clergy and the government, which pushed the state to take more and more drastic, brutal steps against these religious zealots who opposed the "westernization" of persia.

which led to the monarchy being more and more repressive until the people wanted the shah out, allowing for the ayatollah to ride into power as the symbol of good versus the evil of the pahlavi monarchy.

so the clergy then take over, institute a theocracy, and consolidate power...which results in the clergy becoming just like the despotic shah and becoming repressive themselves, so now we have the same public frustration only instead of the monarchy being brutal and repressive it is the clergy being brutal and repressive.

amazing how it has come full circle, no?

as far a "Barrack [sic] the Absurd", the speech in cairo, you are a bit myopic. his remarks are indeed a good beginning in establishing an opening with the proverbial "arab street" (recognizing that persians are indeed not arabs...) so there is not a knee jerk negative reaction on their part to the word america. it is important to recognize a people's custom in order to establish dialogue with them, and in that society a mea culpa is how one begins the process.

the extension of his hand may not be received and in the end it could be futile, however if the hand is not extended we will never know if a change is possible. that is not acting "absurd", it is acting pragmatically.
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:21 PM   #22
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but Obama isn't doing a mea culpa, he's doing a "We screwed you and because of this you hate us but if you could just get past your hatred then everything would be ok." It's a non-pology.

A bonafide mea culpa would be something like, "I recognize that the United States actively thwarted democracy in Iran for generations. I further recognize that we are openly hostile to you and that we have spent the last several years building numerous military bases in a neighboring country, close enough that we might launch a military attack upon you within hours. Given that you pose no plausible threat to the security of the United States, that we currently pose a very real threat to your national security and furthermore that we have in the past overthrown your democratically elected government in favor of single dictator, far be it from us to lecture you as if we own the moral high ground."

I'm not saying that Obama should do one thing or the other, just saying that if I were Iranian, what he is saying would make me more hostile to the US, not less.
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Old 06-24-2009, 04:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexamenos View Post
but Obama isn't doing a mea culpa, he's doing a "We screwed you and because of this you hate us but if you could just get past your hatred then everything would be ok." It's a non-pology.
disagree. the statement "the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically-elected Iranian government." is an admission that the usa acted wrongly.

Quote:
A bonafide mea culpa would be something like, "I recognize that the United States actively thwarted democracy in Iran for generations. I further recognize that we are openly hostile to you and that we have spent the last several years building numerous military bases in a neighboring country, close enough that we might launch a military attack upon you within hours. Given that you pose no plausible threat to the security of the United States, that we currently pose a very real threat to your national security and furthermore that we have in the past overthrown your democratically elected government in favor of single dictator, far be it from us to lecture you as if we own the moral high ground."

I'm not saying that Obama should do one thing or the other, just saying that if I were Iranian, what he is saying would make me more hostile to the US, not less.
iran does pose a "plausible threat to the security of the united states". absolutely as it has shown the proclivity to use agents to do their bidding and have no reluctance nor remorse in murdering people who would be otherwise not in harms way, so it is no stretch of anyone's imagination to believe that their leaders would not hesitate to harm americans if they a) had the chance and b) thought they could get away with it.

bases in nearby countries is a non-issue. american forces could hit iran irregardless of where those bases were located.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:46 PM   #24
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http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200..._election.html

Warning, the link contains some pictures that could be too much for some.

Basically, there are a couple of shots with injured/bloodied bodies and one that is of a victim who was shot and killed. These pictures have additional warnings, that you have to click and agree to view before viewing.

I just wanted to private the link and a fair warning.

My Prayers go out for the folks over in Iran.
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Old 06-30-2009, 01:05 PM   #25
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