Artest is one of the two best players in the NBA... according to himself. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Thespiralgoeson · 03-18-2006, 04:21 AM

Ron Artest, asked on Fox Sports Net's CMI: The Chris Myers Interview, to name the best player in the NBA:

"I think I'm in the top two. Pick whomever else you want. But I think I'm in that category."

On being with the Sacramento Kings:

"It is not necessarily 'happy to be out of Indiana,' but I am happy to be in Sacramento if that makes any sense. I had a lot of good times in Indiana, but I'm definitely happy. It's one of my best moments being an NBA player, being in Sacramento...Mike Bibby has been nothing but a friend and all the guys are the same way. It's been a joy being around the Sacramento Kings."

On being suspended:

"It wasn't fair at all. You look back at the days Larry Bird used to fight Charles Barkley. The NBA was built on that and guys still talk about that on TNT...it still wasn't like I started trouble. It was like somebody started trouble with me, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't like I went into the stands because someone was talking to me. Someone threw something at me so I was pissed off."

Dtownsfinest · 03-18-2006, 04:50 AM

Well to his credit there aren't too many better overall players than him in the NBA. Not too many that can play both sides of the ball exceptionally well like Artest can but the two best in the NBA?

dude1394 · 03-18-2006, 05:34 AM

It begins.

twelli · 03-18-2006, 05:55 AM

Some people should be banned from talking...

chumdawg · 03-18-2006, 11:37 AM

Have to admire the guy's confidence. I'm pretty sure he'll never be intimidated by any person or any situation.

jthig32 · 03-18-2006, 11:40 AM

Certainly top two is extreme, but he IS one of the best two way players in the game. How many people on this board claimed that no one person could join the Kings and improve their defense to the point of being competitive? He's an amazing defensive presence.

Arne · 03-18-2006, 11:59 AM

He's for me the best two-way player.

orangedays · 03-18-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

It begins.

Exactly what I though. Maybe Artest (or something Artest does) will be the final straw that takes the Maloofs to Las Vegas?

*edit: spiral & Arne, you guys should write a note to Hollinger and/or Simmons, who seem to believe...for reasons unknown to me...that Dwayne Wade is the best two-way player in the league.

rakesh.s · 03-18-2006, 03:18 PM

It's hard to argue with him right now..the kings were headed for the lottery and now they look like they could go deep in the playoffs and scare a top seed or two along the way.

Murphy3 · 03-18-2006, 04:09 PM

He's in the top 15-20 players in the league...

spreedom · 03-18-2006, 05:58 PM

Well, I'd say that Kobe is the best player in the league for sure.. Artest is a phenominal defender, but top 2? Damn, that's ballsy of him to say. Gotta love that kind of confidence, especially with the on-court results.

Dtownsfinest · 03-18-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Have to admire the guy's confidence. I'm pretty sure he'll never be intimidated by any person or any situation.

Its the type of guy you want to be your best defender on your team. That's the type of attitude you want your superstar to have IMO.

babbler · 03-18-2006, 08:04 PM

If you were to rebuild a whole team. Would you want Artest over any other player in the league? It would be a close call based on his basketball abilities. i would definately want Artest over Kobe. Artest makes the guys around him much better players.

dude1394 · 03-18-2006, 10:08 PM

that's what indiana said. Let him stay at a team for more than 20 games before you peg your franchise on him.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-18-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babbler

If you were to rebuild a whole team. Would you want Artest over any other player in the league? It would be a close call based on his basketball abilities. i would definately want Artest over Kobe.

I wouldn't. Guys I would take over Artes if I were starting a team;

Kobe
Iverson
LeBron
Dirk
Wade
Yao
T-Mac (maybe not now with the back problems)
Duncan

And that's actually very complimentary to Artest because it still has him in the top 10, which he definitely is right now IMO. But then there's also those young guys with massive potential that I would also consider taking over Artest to build a team around. Guys like Bosh and Dwight Howard.

dude1394 · 03-18-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I wouldn't. Guys I would take over Artes if I were starting a team;

Kobe
Iverson
LeBron
Dirk
Wade
Yao
T-Mac (maybe not now with the back problems)
Duncan

Oh I can see more as well....

Bosh, Dwight Howard, any number of younger players. Why take such a change on him.

bernardos70 · 03-19-2006, 01:47 AM

The problem with starting a franchise revolving around this time bomb is that he's just that, a time bomb. He goes off, there goes the team. And IMO, it's not a matter of if but rather of when.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-19-2006, 04:19 AM

Nobody's questioning that, Bernardos. We all know he's a nutcase, and a huge risk. We're merely talking about his actual talent and skills. He's claiming to be one of the two best players in the NBA. I wouldn't put him that high, but I'd definitely have him in the top 15.

OzMavs · 03-19-2006, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The problem with starting a franchise revolving around this time bomb is that he's just that, a time bomb. He goes off, there goes the team. And IMO, it's not a matter of if but rather of when.

Exactly. There is a lot more to being a top NBA player than Ron Artest will ever display.

chumdawg · 03-19-2006, 05:30 AM

Ron-ron is easy in the top ten, and pressing the top five.

My guess is that anyone who ever had the bad luck to play against him would tell you just how high the guy should rank.

TXSportsFan4 · 03-19-2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Nobody's questioning that, Bernardos. We all know he's a nutcase, and a huge risk. We're merely talking about his actual talent and skills. He's claiming to be one of the two best players in the NBA. I wouldn't put him that high, but I'd definitely have him in the top 15.

I definitly think he may be one of the best defenders in the league without question, but I can't say he is one of the best all around players. But I agree I'd have him in the top 15.

Five-ofan · 03-19-2006, 10:12 AM

He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.

rakesh.s · 03-19-2006, 01:50 PM

call me crazy, but on that list, if you look at guys that actually make their teammates better and impact both ends of the floor, I'd have to say that Artest is better than -

arenas
carter
pierce
tmac
jo - the most overrated player in the NBA. He's the Baron Davis of power forwards.
iverson
brand

dude1394 · 03-19-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.

Agree plenty and I still put some of the younger guys on that list.

Five-ofan · 03-19-2006, 08:36 PM

I would also rather have bosh D12 and Yao off the top of my head but i meant as an argument for right now. Jo and artest were on the same team for years and jo was the best player on that team. I to think he is overrated but he is better than artest

rakesh.s · 03-19-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I would also rather have bosh D12 and Yao off the top of my head but i meant as an argument for right now. Jo and artest were on the same team for years and jo was the best player on that team. I to think he is overrated but he is better than artest

he's due back for the playoffs, so let's see what he can do -- jermaine that is

Over the last few years, he has been injury prone and a puss (shut down by k-mart after he yapped about how the nets couldn't guard him...in the playoffs)

artest is a nut, but he has transformed sacramento's mentality...guys that couldn't spell defense are now playing hard tough nosed D.

Five-ofan · 03-19-2006, 08:56 PM

The kings d has as much to do with not playing sar and brad miller together as anything.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-20-2006, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

The kings d has as much to do with not playing sar and brad miller together as anything.

So true it hurts.

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 09:15 AM

btw i just glanced over your list and saw that you had brand and iverson on it. I can see conceivable though imo wrong arguments for artest being better than the other guys but there is no way in hell he is better than iverson or brand.

jthig32 · 03-20-2006, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

He is not close to the top 5. He is somewhere between 15 and 25. Tell me who of these players you think he is better than.

Dirk
Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Garnett
Marion
Brand
Iverson
Nash
JO
Tmac(when healthy)
Pierce
Vince Carter
Arenas

Maybe one or two of those are a arguable but no way is he top 10. There are several others i would much rather have than him even excluding his nuttiness. There are at least 20 guys i would rather start a franchise with even if he was completely sane.

I take Artest over Iverson, JO, Tmac and Arenas, and Carter (who shouldn't even be on that list) and I don't even THINK about it. You listed all offensive guys, most of whom are defensive sieves, which is typical when people talk about the best players in the NBA.

The proof is in the pudding. You can argue why the Kings D is better all you want, but their turning point directly coincides with the trade. Artest's mere presence made them tougher and more defensive.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-20-2006, 09:51 AM

If Artest is better than T-Mac, it's only because T-Mac's back has gone bad. A healthy McGrady is on a completely different level than Artest. Artest is a phenominal defender, maybe the best, and more than decent offensively. But McGrady is one of those very, very few players in the NBA who can completely take over a game offensively, and single-handedly win a game and do it on a regular basis. Players like that are very rare, they are true franchise players; superstars. I'll take any one of those guys over a guy like Artest anyday. McGrady is one of them, Kobe is one of them, so is LeBron, Iverson, Dirk, Wade, and to a lesser extent guys like Pierce, Arenas and Carmelo. I'd put Artest in Basically the same category as Garnett, Brand, Marion; they're all the versitile do-it-all kind of guys, but you just can't count on them to take over a game offensively.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that McGrady is by no means whatsovever a "defensive sieve." He's an excellent defender, and I have no idea why people don't seem to recognize that.

Iverson is no pushover defensively either, which is amazing considering how small he is. Just look at Iverson's career compared to Artest. Iverson singlehandedly took his team to the finals. I seriously doubt Artest could ever do something half as incredible if he played with the group of scrubs that Iverson's played with his whole career.

As for Arenas and Carter... Well personally I think both of them are extremely overrated. I'd probably take Artest at this point, but it's a tough choice.

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 10:06 AM

Iverson isnt horrible defensively. He isnt the defender his steals numbers make him look like but he is above average which when coupled with his O makes him better than artest. Plus he is THE toughest player in the nba. I used to dislike him alot but watching him play and all the contact he takes in that tiny body are just amazing. Looking at spiral's post i agree. A person who is a truly dominant scorer is worth more than a guy who is slightly above average on O and great on D.

BTW the argument of "they sucked defensively before he got there and they didnt afterwards so he must be the reason for the improvement" is one of the basic fallacies. Just because an event happens after another event does not mean that the two are related. Though in this case, yes artest is a source of improvement for their d BUT he isnt the sole or even the main cause of it. SAR and brad miller not playing together is the main cause of it. Since we are mavs fans i will relate it to the mavs. Say the mavs still had jamison and they played a front line of KVH(peja) Jamison(SAR) and Dirk(Miller) together. They would be utterly horrible defensively. Now suppose they put in Josh howard for KVH and Damp for jamison. They would improve exponentially defensively. Now if the mavs could only make one of those changes which helps more defensively? Damp. Bringing in a big that will play like a big and most importantly rebound improves your d more than bringing in a small. Now Dirk is a much better defender than brad miller and artest is a much better defender than jho and these arent perfect comparisons obviously but I am trying to show it in a light mavs fan will understand because it relates to the mavs.

Arne · 03-20-2006, 10:17 AM

Artest=the best defender in the league.

Sacramento was one of the worst defensive teams. And Abdur-Rahim and Miller not in the line up at the same time is certainly not the main reason why they are better now. It's Artest. Artest, Artest, Artest.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-20-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arne

Artest=the best defender in the league.

Sacramento was one of the worst defensive teams. And Abdur-Rahim and Miller not in the line up at the same time is certainly not the main reason why they are better now. It's Artest. Artest, Artest, Artest.

Artest is the main reason for their improvement, yes, but SAR and Miller being in the starting lineup was a recipe for disaster, and I knew it. While all the moronic sports writers around the country were telling us that the Kings were back in the hunt because they signed SAR, and I knew that Sacramento was going to suck this year, for that exact reason. SAR being taken out of the starting lineup might not be the "main" reason for their improvement, but it's definitely a big one.

Also, I think the mere psycholigical impact of Artest's presense has been at least as valuble to them as his tough defense. The Kings were dead in the water, and the fans knew it. When they brought in Artest it was a breath of fresh air, a ray of hope. It gave the team and the fans a huge boost in morale and they responded accordingly.

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 10:27 AM

Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest. Tmac if he wants to is better as well. Though it is very rare now even before the injury. If you watch them play you would realize that not playing SAR and Miller together is a big reason they dont suck defensively anymore. That said artest has had a HUGE impact on the kings but its almost like nash with the suns. Yes they sucked before he got there but anyone with half a brain could see that the right player could be a spark to set them off because they still had pieces that could work. I admit i didnt think artest was the right guy to set them off but he was/is so props to him for that but dont act like this makes him a top 10 let alone top 5 player.

spreedom · 03-20-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest.

I think AK47 is about even, and I could see a case for Marion.... but Gerald Wallace? Who has he EVER shut down, as opposed to Artest mathematically impacting the game in very profound ways... I don't see what you see, I guess.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-20-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Artest isnt even the best defender in the league. I would take AK, marion, and G Wallace as better defenders at the 3 than artest.

I'm afraid I have to disagree there. Marion's a phenominal defender, but I do think Artest has the edge. AK's a great defender as well, but I think there's quite a gap between the two because Artest can guard pretty much every position but center. AK47 can guard the 4 as well as anybody, but he can't stay with the quicker 3's (which is why he can't really guard Dirk as well) and he definitely can't guard the 1 or 2. And when you say G Wallace, did you mean B Wallace? Because if you're telling me that Gerald Wallace is a better defender than Ron Artest, I'm afraid you're crazy. Either way, I still think Artest is a better defensive player than Ben Wallace as well, not to mention that he's light years ahead of Big Ben on the other end of the ball.

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 10:43 AM

For G wallace I will admit to doing something I almost never do, using individual defensive stats because honestly i dont watch a whole lot of their games and i know they can be misleading but for a guy to lead the league in steals and be top 10 i believe in blocks, he has to be pretty damn good. Marion is better at defending bigger players than artest which is strange because artest is thicker but if you want one of them to defend a 4 id MUCH prefer it to be marion. Ak is the best help defender in the league. He is also the awesome individually defensively against 4s and most 3s. Though you are correct he can have trouble guarding the really quick 3s(who are actually 2s) They all have their strengths but for Marion and AK i definitely think they are better and for Gerald wallace i did go by stats so it could be completely wrong but he seems to play well defensively when they play the mavs which is about all i see of them because like i said they are not one of the teams i watch normally.

Thespiralgoeson · 03-20-2006, 10:46 AM

Will you at least concede that Artest is the best wing defender in the league?

Five-ofan · 03-20-2006, 10:56 AM

Honestly after thinking about it i would admit that he is probably the best overall defender in the nba in that he impacts the game with his d more than anyone else does. I was thinking and I dont really think the 3 previously mentioned guys are better than he is so much as they are on the same level though i will now watch some charlotte games just to see if Wallace is as good as his numbers make him look. I mean can you really average 2.5 steals and over 2 blocks and not be a good defender? I think the best defender debate is kind of like the best player debate right now. There is a little group of guys that can all make legit arguments for it.