Poll: Who is the best overall player in the NBA? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 10:52 AM

I just thought I would ask the board this question. There is a lot of hate for various guys around the NBA that are very gifted, so I wanted to post a PUBLIC poll that would allow you to choose who you think is the best overall player in the NBA.

This takes EVERYTHING into account... Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, clutch ability, etc... Keep in mind that there are only 10 options for me to pick from, so the 10th will be other, (in which case you can elaborate below). Some guys you think might should be included will be left out - deal with it...

sixeightmkw · 05-03-2006, 11:03 AM

I have to go with Dirk just becasue he is the most effiecient player in the NBA, he is a good rebounder, he gets blocks occasionally, he is becoming a much better passer, his assists are going up, he is very humble, he is very team oriented, he knows his place on the team, he knows what his role is. He is certainly in his prime right now and getting better by the day. He has begun to prove how he can lift his game and his team on his back in the playoffs. He is not flashy like many others and he doesn't have to be in the spotlight all the time. He gives plenty of credit where credit is deserved.
Lebron is quickly getting there and will be the best all around player here very quickly. But right now I have to go with Dirk.

Drbio · 05-03-2006, 11:30 AM

I'm with 6-8 here. I know you want to see some love for koberapist and you will probably see some (and with no argument from me)...he is a damn fine player.

One question though...why is Shaq on this list?

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 11:40 AM

Doc... I thought long and hard about this, but I actually think that LeBron is the best. Why? He is nearly as efficient as Dirk is with a rather average cast of players, he is arguably unstoppable, (if you do manage to D him up enough to make him travel, he will be so quick and strong the refs won't even see it), he is a great rebounder, a tremendous passer, average defensively, and he is starting to become very clutch. This guy is twanky one too... I don't think anyone takes this spot from him for the next 10-12 years.

With that said, if I didn't pick LeBron, yes Doc, I would have picked Kobe. He is unbelievable ON THE COURT and I think people should recognize that. It really is too bad. If he played on any team other than LA and didn't have the Shaq issues and the rape allegations, he would be rivaling Jordan's career right now. It really is too bad, but I guess he did the majority of it to himself. I guess I just like guys like him... He is a lot like Jordan and I LOVED watching Jordan. He NEVER quits and has another level that guys can't match. I know he isn't winning much now and that isn't like Jordan, and you could say that he only won earlier because of Shaq but I don't buy that.

I don't know, I guess I just miss the hell out of Jordan and he is the closest thing to him right now... No, he is no saint off the court, but I am talking on the court here!

madape · 05-03-2006, 11:45 AM

Kobe is the best basketball player on the planet (and I hate him for it)

sixeightmkw · 05-03-2006, 11:46 AM

but you did say this takes into account EVERYTHING. Off the court has to be included.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 11:47 AM

Regarding Shaq, he is still the most dominating center in the league and that still means something. I know he is old, slow, on one leg, and laying eggs in the playoffs, but he is still the best and can still go out and get you 35 and 15 if he was motivated enough.

To be honest though, I only included him because there was no one else really worthy... Who else? Pierce, Arenas, Anthony, Billups, Carter, Jermaine, Artest, Allen, AK47???

To be honest, the only person I left off and felt guilty for it was AI.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

but you did say this takes into account EVERYTHING. Off the court has to be included.

Fine 68... I meant EVERYTHING basketball related, but to suit you, you can take it like that. I tried to be as specific as I could, but I guess that "etc..." did you in!

orangedays · 05-03-2006, 11:55 AM

I voted for LeBron on the rationale that if I were the owner of an NBA team and was given the pick of the litter for who I would start and build my team around, I would choose him.

His talent is undeniable. Efficient offensive player who isn't a volume shooter and who passes the ball without forcing it. By no means a lockdown defender but I would say that he's 'adequate' (in that he does nothing to bring the team down in that area) and his rare combination of size and athleticism help to offset his defensive deficiencies.

LeBron's image is akin to Kobe's prior to the rape incident, except he's seen as a nicer guy. He is highly marketable and will make tons of money for any owner lucky enough to grab him.

I'm sure other things factor in subconsciously but that's it for now.

orangedays · 05-03-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male23Dan

To be honest though, I only included him because there was no one else really worthy... Who else? Pierce, Arenas, Anthony, Billups, Carter, Jermaine, Artest, Allen, AK47???

What about Yao? 26 years old and still has upside. Put up 22.3 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.7 bpg, shoots 52% from the floor and is a big man who can hit FTs at 85%.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

What about Yao? 26 years old and still has upside. Put up 22.3 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.7 bpg, shoots 52% from the floor and is a big man who can hit FTs at 85%.

Yeah, but come on... He isn't even the best player on his team, (and sure, that could be argued, but I would love to take that argument on)...

I just can't put Yao in over Shaq... Not even at this stage of each of their careers. Maybe in a year or two IF Yao becomes the player he was becoming before his injury this past year, but that is a big IF. He was frankly an underachiever before this past year, (a guy that big and strong should be DOMINATING this league, and only last year did he show traces of that).

I guess I just need to see more absolute dominance out of him before I personally would include him. I know he is your man and everything, but I am just trying to be honest.

orangedays · 05-03-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male23Dan

Yeah, but come on... He isn't even the best player on his team, (and sure, that could be argued, but I would love to take that argument on)...

I just can't put Yao in over Shaq... Not even at this stage of each of their careers. Maybe in a year or two IF Yao becomes the player he was becoming before his injury this past year, but that is a big IF. He was frankly an underachiever before this past year, (a guy that big and strong should be DOMINATING this league, and only last year did he show traces of that).

I guess I just need to see more absolute dominance out of him before I personally would include him. I know he is your man and everything, but I am just trying to be honest.

His performance has been disappointing for a long time. You don't know how happy I was to see him finally sack up (though I'd certainly like to hang my hat on that toe injury). We will monitor his progress in the next year or so and if he continues to improve then I will lobby, at such time as is appropriate, for my man Yao's inclusion

.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 12:13 PM

Sounds fair Orange... If Yao can put up those March numbers for a full year, I think I will be a lot more worried about him stealing another MVP trophy from my man Dirk rather than being in a top 10 list.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 12:15 PM

I would like to hear everyone's argument though for the player they select... As much as I love him and would never want to trade him for either, (though as a GM you would likely have to), I just don't know how you can select Dirk with a straight face over LeBron or Kobe.

Please, give all of the arguments you can... I am not saying I am right, I just don't see it.

Some Guy · 05-03-2006, 12:23 PM

I chose Kobe, even though I really dislike him. I think Lebron will pass him up, but he's not there yet.

sixeightmkw · 05-03-2006, 12:26 PM

Dirk:

#1 in Player efficiency
#3 in offensive rating
#2 player wins behind Lebron
#1 in Win Shares

These are the stats that count. The ones that determine if a team wins or loses. Yes Lebron and Kobe get alot of points, and they shoot alot of shots, and Lebron creates for his team, but when you look at it, Lebron is the only option on their team. Then you can see that on the usage rating, Lebron is4th behind Kobe, AI, Wade, you get the idea,. Lebron hsa to be used all the time cause again, he is the only option. Dirk doesn't have to be used all the time and yet he still produces for his team at the highest level. So of course Lebron has to score. Lebron is on 2 lists. Dirk is top 3 in all of them. Check them out.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2006.html

grndmstr_c · 05-03-2006, 12:30 PM

I voted Dirk for three reasons: 1) he has been the best player in the league since the playoffs started, 2) he was as worthy of the MVP this season (and the last) as anyone, IMO and 3) I'm a Mavs fan. I'm not an idiot, though, and I'm well aware that there are outstanding arguments that can be made for other guys. I just don't believe there's a clear choice that can be made right now, so when pressed, I'm going with my guy,

To further clarify my position, if the question was: "who should be the best player?", I'd say Kobe. Best combination of talent and experience in the game today, but I really believe his approach to life and the game of basketball hold him back from being more than one of a handful of guys who belong in the debate.

On the other hand, if the question was: "who will be the best player?", I'd say LeBron. His raw potential is arguably unequaled in the history of sports, and to be doing what he's doing at his age is just crazy.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

Dirk:

#1 in Player efficiency
#3 in offensive rating
#2 player wins behind Lebron
#1 in Win Shares

These are the stats that count. The ones that determine if a team wins or loses. Yes Lebron and Kobe get alot of points, and they shoot alot of shots, and Lebron creates for his team, but when you look at it, Lebron is the only option on their team. Then you can see that on the usage rating, Lebron is4th behind Kobe, AI, Wade, you get the idea,. Lebron hsa to be used all the time cause again, he is the only option. Dirk doesn't have to be used all the time and yet he still produces for his team at the highest level. So of course Lebron has to score. Lebron is on 2 lists. Dirk is top 3 in all of them. Check them out.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2006.html

68... So much of that has to do with the players around Dirk though. Surely you can't argue that Terry, Stackhouse, Daniels, Dampier, Diop, Howard, Harris, etc... are less talented than Kobe or LeBron's help. We have a GREAT team with a GREAT superstar. Kobe and LeBron are GREAT superstars but have only DECENT teams. That just can NOT be overlooked when factoring in some of those stats. When you don't absolutely have to force everything yourself, you can be a great deal more efficient. When you have the better team, you will have more overall victories. Sure give him the Winshares, but I am just saying...

Again, (and I feel like I have to keep saying this because I might be coming off as knocking Dirk and giving love to these other guys), I love Dirk and his game, but we need to step back and look at the facts too. I think Dirk deserved the MVP because we did have more wins, and he had great stats that rivaled these other guys; however, I am not so gullable as to believe that if you put Kobe or LeBron on our team minus Dirk that they couldn't have taken this team to as many wins, (or just maybe more).

sixeightmkw · 05-03-2006, 12:58 PM

And I am sure if we put Dirk on the Lakers or Cavs he scores 35 a game and shoots tons of lsat second jumpers cause he would be there only offensive weapon and gets more praise. Lebron and Kobe are not even in the top 5 in offensive rating. You would think being the best in the league, you would at least be in the top 5.

orangedays · 05-03-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixeightmkw

And I am sure if we put Dirk on the Lakers or Cavs he scores 35 a game and shoots tons of lsat second jumpers cause he would be there only offensive weapon and gets more praise. Lebron and Kobe are not even in the top 5 in offensive rating. You would think being the best in the league, you would at least be in the top 5.

To be fair, do you think Dirk would still be in the top 5 if he was, "their only offensive weapon" and had to, "shoot tons of last second jumpers"?

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangedays

To be fair, do you think Dirk would still be in the top 5 if he was, "their only offensive weapon" and had to, "shoot tons of last second jumpers"?

You beat me to it... Sorry, I was making lunch!

bernardos70 · 05-03-2006, 01:16 PM

Kobe is it. He's the best when you balance offense and defense. Doesn't make him any less of an a-hole, but there it is.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2006, 03:09 PM

Here's a better question...Who's the best combination of when it comes to being the most valuable player AND being the best player?

As for "who's the best player?"... I don't know. I'd like to wait a few weeks to decide.... see who steps it up in the playoffs... see who folds..

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Here's a better question...Who's the best combination of when it comes to being the most valuable player AND being the best player?

Well, then my answer changes to Dirk, as does most here. But that was not my question, so answer it in the poll as it is asked.

EDIT... You know, I thought about this some more, and I don't think it is as easy of a decision as I made it sound... It would be close... With my original question, I went back and forth with Kobe and LeBron and chose LeBron... On this question, I think I would go back and forth with LeBron and Dirk, and would eventually choose Dirk because I like him more... But remember, LeBron I chose as the best player and 2nd in the MVP race, so it would really be close!

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

As for "who's the best player?"... I don't know. I'd like to wait a few weeks to decide.... see who steps it up in the playoffs... see who folds..

Make a prediction...

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2006, 03:24 PM

Kobe.

EricaLubarsky · 05-03-2006, 03:51 PM

AK in a good system could average a triple double with 3-4 blocks.

Dtownsfinest · 05-03-2006, 03:57 PM

Kobe without a doubt. Can't believe guys actually thought the Lakers should choose Shaq and trade Kobe lol.

aexchange · 05-03-2006, 03:57 PM

lebron.

passing, physical abilities, age. brute strength. overall, hes a beast.

aexchange · 05-03-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

Kobe without a doubt. Can't believe guys actually thought the Lakers should choose Shaq and trade Kobe lol.

a team with shaq and any clippers the lakers would have taken back in a trade would be better than what they have now.

shaq + maggette/brand > kobe + lamar

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

AK in a good system could average a triple double with 3-4 blocks.

Probably. But AK is not a guy who can create his own offense. He's not someone who can put up 30 points consistently. He's not someone who can throw a defense into chaos.

IMO, that ability is FAR more valuble and essential to winning games than an overall well-rounded game like AK's or Garnett's. That's why I laugh when people say that Dirk isn't on the same level as Garnett.

EricaLubarsky · 05-03-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Probably. But AK is not a guy who can create his own offense. He's not someone who can put up 30 points consistently. He's not someone who can throw a defense into chaos.

IMO, that ability is FAR more valuble and essential to winning games than an overall well-rounded game like AK's or Garnett's. That's why I laugh when people say that Dirk isn't on the same level as Garnett.

the question wasnt most valuable, it was best overall player. The guy's more than decent offense is just another facet to his well-rounded overall play

dalmations202 · 05-03-2006, 04:08 PM

If I were a GM with the #1 pick in the draft and everyone were put back in the draft, and we were only playing one year -- Give me Dirk. He is a nightmare matchup who is a 7' who continually has always gotten better, and always makes his teammates better.

Best overall player though, Kobe, but I would never have him on my team due to the off the court stuff, and due to attitude.
Sorry, but Lebron wouldn't do it "next" year. Duncan may be done with is injury, and KGarnett just can't seem to make it happen.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2006, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

the question wasnt most valuable, it was best overall player. The guy's more than decent offense is just another facet to his well-rounded overall play

Well then forgive my use of the word "valuble" because I didn't intend to use it in that "MVP" intangible, cosmic, esoteric sense. I meant that generally, I tend to think that people who are great one-on-one scorers are better basketball players than people who arent.

WayOutWest · 05-03-2006, 08:46 PM

I'm a huge Laker fan and I'd still take a one-legged Tim Duncan over anyone.

TD plays both ends of the court, his offense and defense affects the ENTIRE opposing team. While Kobe can effect an entire team on offense he can only affect a single player with his defense.

Until he fades like Shaq, the Big Fudamental will get my vote. I'll read the posts to see if someone can change my mind.

Murphy3 · 05-03-2006, 09:30 PM

Even with all that AK does defensively, he just doesn't impact the game as much as Dirk, LeBron, or Kobe.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-03-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WayOutWest

Until he fades like Shaq, the Big Fudamental will get my vote. I'll read the posts to see if someone can change my mind.

Already happened. Dirk surpassed him last season, and the gap between them has only grown.

WayOutWest · 05-03-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Already happened. Dirk surpassed him last season, and the gap between them has only grown.

No way Dirk's TD's equal last year, this year maybe but ONLY because TD has been playing hurt all year.

A healthy TD is a better player than Dirk, not as versitile offensively but just as effective and better on D. Not to mention the number of titles he's LED his teams too.

Dtownsfinest · 05-03-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

a team with shaq and any clippers the lakers would have taken back in a trade would be better than what they have now.

shaq + maggette/brand > kobe + lamar

You're assuming that the Clipps would've done that. Was there rumors of that deal occuring? I imagine it was just like the rumors of Dirk for Shaq. At the end of the day, Shaq's on his last legs while Kobe is the best player in the NBA. I'd take Kobe over Maggette and Brand any day of the week and that's not even throwing in Lamar Odom and Caron Butler. Meanwhile, the Heat will be in cap hell for awhile. Both the Heat and Lakers ended up great in the deal but you never take talent over age.

Male30Dan · 05-03-2006, 11:03 PM

Maybe some of you want to change your vote now?