15-7: The return of the incredible Josh II - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 12-08-2009, 11:10 PM

What an ending...

Kidd clutch, he was 0-6 from downtown and then again: biggest toe of the league.

Josh was really great in the 4th. Took some stupid shots and had some bad decisions but he attacked the rim with some great floaters.

Gooden was again trash. Settling for jumpers and turning over the ball. Where is the Gooden from the start of the season? Crashing the boards, double digits points with putbacks and layups?

Im really wondering about RC. With 1:20 left he took Josh out for Barea. Gave up scoring, size, defense, rebounding for the 3 guards and played them against Nash-JRich-Hill.

Suns announcers are Top5 in sucking: Celtics, Rockets, Cavs, Suns, Bucks...

badfish22 · 12-08-2009, 11:12 PM

Barea got screened three times at the end. The Suns made a three all three times. How does Carlisle not see this stuff. Howard was fantastic, why was he taken out?

kg_veteran · 12-08-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Barea got screened three times at the end. The Suns made a three all three times. How does Carlisle not see this stuff. Howard was fantastic, why was he taken out?

It was an awful decision tonight. Very nearly cost the team the game.

tsar · 12-08-2009, 11:15 PM

Josh is back, we won. I'm happy.

xrobx · 12-08-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Barea got screened three times at the end. The Suns made a three all three times. How does Carlisle not see this stuff. Howard was fantastic, why was he taken out?

that's the question of the night. the only LOGICAL reason, is that he was hurt or sore. so either way you look at it(coaching fail, re-injury) it's bad. i'm so happy we still won though. we need josh to be contenders.

Sportstudi · 12-08-2009, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

Barea got screened three times at the end. The Suns made a three all three times. How does Carlisle not see this stuff. Howard was fantastic, why was he taken out?

I have no clue. Barea was good on the offensive end tonight, but he got schooled over and over again on the defensive end. There is no reason to put out one of your better defenders in Howard and to sub in a defensive weakness like Barea while having such a close game in the final minute. Horrible coaching.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-08-2009, 11:18 PM

When defending the perimeter, it's better to have long arms.

iella · 12-08-2009, 11:18 PM

I'm thinking we should sit Josh for 3-4 games at a time. He seems to do very well in his returns. :P

Credit to Nash for hitting those two (three?) huge threes... I was pleased with the Mavs' strategy in the waning seconds. JET's foul on Nash to prevent the three-point attempt (which would undoubtedly have been made) and also the intentional miss on the last free throw to run the clock. I mean, common sense things, but they seem to have been lacking from the repertoire.

Also really confused by JJB's presence in the last seconds. Nash pwned him hard.

But hey! A win!!

Dirkadirkastan · 12-08-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Suns announcers are Top5 in sucking: Celtics, Rockets, Cavs, Suns, Bucks...

I don't know what you were hearing because I didn't find much to complain about.

Replace Suns with Spurs and you're onto something.

CadBane · 12-08-2009, 11:21 PM

Dirk was fantastic. Josh looked vintage (great moments and a few bonehead ones). Kidd was solid. JJB actually had a nice game, yet nearly cost us the game (but that's on RC).

That's it though.

Gooden was junk. Marion was junk on offense. Damp was ineffective due to Phoenix's lineups. Hump was meh. Terry was bad (ft's were big though). RC was like a retarded Mike Brown (saying a lot).

I just don't understand:

1. Why you'd play a horrible defender with no height and length at the end of the game when the ONLY thing you need to do is defend the three.

2. Why you don't get the ball to your BEST ft shooter in the clutch. Especially when Jet has a penchant for missing them.

This team is really, really weak on offense. Especially if Jet, TT and Kidd aren't hitting threes. I really hope Howard can stay healthy and aggressive (with the drive, not the jumper), because this team desperately needs a second option who can consistently score. In truth, JHo is a third option, but you've got to work with what you've got.

kg_veteran · 12-08-2009, 11:22 PM

The decision to pull Josh made no sense, for several reasons. First, the Mavs went back down and ran a two-man play that didn't involve Barea. Second, Carlisle compounded the error by leaving Barea out there. The lineup of Terry/Kidd/Howard/Marion/Dirk that we've wanted to see all season was great. Kidd was guarding Nash, and they were able to switch the pick-and-rolls, which was huge defensively. Kidd never gave ground against any of the bigs. When they put Barea out there, he immediately gets stuck on Nash. Terrible move, because he gets buried on screens and the Mavs couldn't switch on pick-and-roll situations when necessary.

And then on offense, Barea wasn't even touching the ball. It made absolutely no sense.

monty55555 · 12-08-2009, 11:22 PM

I still cannot comprehend why JJB was in for Josh in the last minute or so. It boggles my mind. I know JJB had a great offensive game, but even a blind man can see that he will be abused on the defensive end. Considering how well Josh was playing tonight, I cannot understand the decision to pull him out in favor of JJB.

A win is a win, I guess. I'm really happy for the win. But I'm mortified that Rick will do this time and time again in the future and I know that eventually, it will bite him in the end.

kg_veteran · 12-08-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

2. Why you don't get the ball to your BEST ft shooter in the clutch. Especially when Jet has a penchant for missing them.

I'll say this. I cringe when Terry is at the FT line late (I couldn't even watch when he was at the line in the last minute tonight), but it is difficult to get a 7-footer the ball against pressure defense late in the game. You almost have to throw it to a quick guard the majority of the time.

StackAttack · 12-08-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

I don't know what you were hearing because I didn't find much to complain about.

Replace Suns with Spurs and you're onto something.

It was absurd homerism. Like, you can tell Bob and Mark are Mavs fans, but that's just over the top.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-08-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty55555

but even a blind man can abuse him on the defensive end.

Fixed.

tcat075 · 12-08-2009, 11:26 PM

I understand taking JHo off the court, first game back from the layoff, in a game which appears to be decided. But put in a defensive substitution such as Roddy, or more likely to happen, Tim Thomas or Gooden.

tcat075 · 12-08-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'll say this. I cringe when Terry is at the FT line late (I couldn't even watch when he was at the line in the last minute tonight), but it is difficult to get a 7-footer the ball against pressure defense late in the game. You almost have to throw it to a quick guard the majority of the time.

I would agree with this, although you still have to find ways to get it to Dirk.

CadBane · 12-08-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I'll say this. I cringe when Terry is at the FT line late (I couldn't even watch when he was at the line in the last minute tonight), but it is difficult to get a 7-footer the ball against pressure defense late in the game. You almost have to throw it to a quick guard the majority of the time.

That's quite true. BUT, I'm sure the Mavs have a play to get him free for the catch (if not they should), and three times? Really?

DirktyBlue · 12-08-2009, 11:29 PM

For the first time in a long long while, Dirk got a breather in the 4th quarter. Thank you very much Josh! Welcome back! I can't wait to have Ross back...We are going to be a scary team once everyone settles in. Rick needs to stop being a mad scientist but the game was won..so no complaints! (If Avery was coaching this one, chances are we would have lost it)...Great Game JJ. Loved the offensive spark he brought to the team considering how crappy we have been shooting lately. (I don't want to get into his D as it is a pointless discussion - but when his offense is on, he is useful to this team).

kg_veteran · 12-08-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That's quite true. BUT, I'm sure the Mavs have a play to get him free for the catch (if not they should), and three times? Really?

Other than Dirk, who do you want shooting FTs late? Kidd seems to shy away from the clutch FTs, and I don't honestly want Barea, Howard or Marion on the line.

badfish22 · 12-08-2009, 11:30 PM

I have the last Nash threes outloud saying everything that would happen (the screen, who would set it)
Prett easy to see what was comin. Gentry in the huddle was just like "Alright if that 5'2 munchkin is in the game all we have to do is screen him then pop the open three".

Do Kidd and Dirk not see this? You would think they would say something.

Bayliss · 12-08-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

When defending the perimeter, it's better to have long arms.

Well, maybe for other NBA teams. But the Mavs prefer 5'0" guards who have T-Rex arms.

iella · 12-08-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

It was absurd homerism. Like, you can tell Bob and Mark are Mavs fans, but that's just over the top.

Really? I thought the announcers were pretty tame... not as good as our guys of course, but they weren't so ridiculous that it was impossible to tune them out when necessary (most of the time).

I definitely agree with you on the Cavs announcers, though. They make me want to shoot myself. Every time the Cavs do something good, it's like the second coming of Jordan. I mean, the fourth coming of Jordan.

"OHHHHHHH ANDERSON VAREJAO WITH THE DEFENSIVE REBOUND OVER BAREA!!! WOW THIS YOUNG MAN IS REALLY HUSTLING OUT THERE!!!111!!ONE!!1!!"

CadBane · 12-08-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Other than Dirk, who do you want shooting FTs late? Kidd seems to shy away from the clutch FTs, and I don't honestly want Barea, Howard or Marion on the line.

What are you getting at? Yes, obviously Terry is the second option. I'm saying I find it hard to believe the Mavs can't get it to Dirk one time in three straight instances.

DirktyBlue · 12-08-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, maybe for other NBA teams. But the Mavs prefer 5'0" guards who have T-Rex arms.

LOL repped.

sefant77 · 12-08-2009, 11:33 PM

Ah and our thing with the layups is just getting worse. We are blowing every game 10+ points on that...

Marion before the halftime, what was that?

Terry again stopping at a fastbreak. You can see that he (Kidd does that too) is scared to blow it.

And several other times around the rim. It cant be just bad luck with the rims. I dont get it...

kg_veteran · 12-08-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

What are you getting at? Yes, obviously Terry is the second option. I'm saying I find it hard to believe the Mavs can't get it to Dirk one time in three straight instances.

Oh, okay. I guess you have a point, although my recollection is that the Suns were swarming Dirk to make sure he didn't get the ball. I think they would double him before they'd let him make the catch. Most teams do that late in games because they know Dirk is automatic.

Bayliss · 12-08-2009, 11:35 PM

On the FT thing:

Kidd needs to be throwing the ball in. Period. He is the smartest player on the Mavs. He HAS TO THROW IT IN. (Sorry for the caps.) Then, I agree about it is hard to find Dirk. You also have the problem that they can switch on Dirk and put a semi athletic guard on him. That makes it extremely hard to get Dirk the ball. You don't want to just "lob it in" where it is a jumpball situation. And Dirk doesn't move quick enough to get free from a guard. So it has to be Terry.

The only option on the play is to call a time out. Have Kidd throw it in... Make Dirk the guy in the backcourt getting the ball... clearing out the whole "side".... but even that is dangerous.

DirktyBlue · 12-08-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ah and our thing with the layups is just getting worse. We are blowing every game 10+ points on that...

Marion before the halftime, what was that?

Terry again stopping at a fastbreak. You can see that he (Kidd does that too) is scared to blow it.

And several other times around the rim. It cant be just bad luck with the rims. I dont get it...

I thought Terry was a liability tonight! he seemed a little lost..probably because Josh took away half of his touches!

LonghornDub · 12-08-2009, 11:36 PM

My comment from the game is that NBA refs no longer call traveling when a player slides around while laying on the floor with the ball. This is something I've noticed for a few years, but two different Suns did that tonight without it being called.

sefant77 · 12-08-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My comment from the game is that NBA refs no longer call traveling when a player slides around while laying on the floor with the ball. This is something I've noticed for a few years, but two different Suns did that tonight without it being called.

And of course when u are on the fastbreak. Really annoying (Kidd and Terry too).

iella · 12-08-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Ah and our thing with the layups is just getting worse. We are blowing every game 10+ points on that...

Josh's return should help a little with that, although he seems to have picked up a running floater that he prefers. Less contact compared to taking it all the way to the rim, maybe?

ReDirkulous Tyme · 12-08-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iella

Josh's return should help a little with that, although he seems to have picked up a running floater that he prefers. Less contact compared to taking it all the way to the rim, maybe?

Josh has always had that running floater, seen him use it time and time again. I think he was relying on it, instead of going to the rim hard, tonight because he is still a bit tentative on the ankle. If he is indeed healthy, after a 5-6 games that tentativeness should be gone and we should see him going hard to the hole more often. This, my fellow mavs fans, is what I've been waiting for all year.

CadBane · 12-08-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

My comment from the game is that NBA refs no longer call traveling when a player slides around while laying on the floor with the ball. This is something I've noticed for a few years, but two different Suns did that tonight without it being called.

Yeah, it's funny, JVG astutely noted how absurd those situations are. It's like, anything goes. If a guy is on the ground he can slide with the ball...he can also be dived on and hacked by someone trying to take it with no foul or travel.

LonghornDub · 12-08-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Yeah, it's funny, JVG astutely noted how absurd those situations are. It's like, anything goes. If a guy is on the ground he can slide with the ball...he can also be dived on and hacked by someone trying to take it with no foul or travel.

Absolutely. Like most of the time, JVG is very observant.

Underdog · 12-08-2009, 11:58 PM

dude1394 · 12-09-2009, 12:11 AM

Comment on tonight. Those refs SUCKED. Since the lockout the refs have been pretty decent but tonight was ridiculous. If you had the ball you could not be touched and I mean touched. But if you didn't have the ball forget about it, you could be murdered.

And I could NOT for the life of me understand why JJB was being subbed in for defensive purposes...I really would like someone to ask RC what's up with that. Having Josh out there against Stevie makes those shots much, much harder. My bud and I just could not figure it out.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-09-2009, 03:30 AM

The JJB love from Carlisle is puzzling. What is he seeing that we aren't? That better be the last of him in the the lineup at the end of games. It absolutely nearly cost the Mavs the game.

Otherwise, great win.

fluid.forty.one · 12-09-2009, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The JJB love from Carlisle is puzzling. What is he seeing that we aren't? That better be the last of him in the the lineup at the end of games. It absolutely nearly cost the Mavs the game.

Otherwise, great win.

I doubt this will be the last of it. He subbed JJB in over Marion earlier in the season in a similar situation.

DubOverdose · 12-09-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StackAttack

It was absurd homerism. Like, you can tell Bob and Mark are Mavs fans, but that's just over the top.

I will say the Suns' play-by-play announcer was good when he was unbiased. He has the ability to be one of the best play-by-play guys.