Ryan Moats / Dallas Police Department

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Not really. Why do you say that?

Because the guy was loaded for bear once he got into chase mode, and I don't see one bit of evidence that he acted in a manner that would be considered unusual for him because of the race of the person who got out of the car.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Because the guy was loaded for bear once he got into chase mode, and I don't see one bit of evidence that he acted in a manner that would be considered unusual for him because of the race of the person who got out of the car.

If you're saying that you don't think race had anything to do with his course of action, then obviously I disagree. But that sure doesn't seem like what you're saying, given--

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I think we all know it's about race. We may not be able to prove it...but we know.

So, I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Flacolaco]

Sometimes it doesn't matter which side you're on, as long as you're fighting...?

[MX425]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't at all appreciate the insinuation that I'm "ignorant."

But, to be more civil to you than you've been to me and answer your question, I think there are plenty of situations where people are assholes in a way that has nothing to do with race. I also think this situation clearly wasn't one of them.

Again, if a 30-year-old white dude steps out of that car, the situation probably goes down differently. That's just common sense, as much as it's common sense to say that the Rodney King beatings probably don't go down like that if it's a white guy who steps out of that car.

If it is just common sense to you that things go down different if he is white then I think that you have some prejudices you need to figure out. And if you assume it is different because cops are prejudice, then are you willing to say all cops are racist? I don't see why this is so clearly a race issue to you. The only evidence we have to support it was one party was white, one was black and thier was an injustice.

and Flacco, I have had run ins with Police on several occasions where I gave them no reason to stop me. Did you know there are over 2,000 vehicular violations for which a police officer may stop your vehicle? Have you never violated one? The issue I am concerned with is abuse of power. White, black, orange, blue, the crux of the problem is still that this officer abused his power, and he is not the only officer who acts in such a manner.

[mnmpeanut]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

It would have gone down differently because as soon as he "assessed" the situation, he would have let a white driver go see his dying mother-in-law (even if he still wrote him a ticket afterwards).

Now, I'm not saying the guy purposefully or consciously thought to himself, "Because this man is black, I'm going to make his life hell," but you are absolutely, certifiably, 100% wrong if you think the fact that it was a young black guy giving the cop attitude didn't play a part.

i rarely do this but i have to side with dad in this instance - there's no way, from the evidence we have been given, to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that race played any part in this incident. could it have? of course, but to insist, practically demand, it did without knowing more about powell than what we've learned so far from this incident is jumping to a serious conclusion.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by mnmpeanut

i rarely do this but i have to side with dad in this instance - there's no way, from the evidence we have been given, to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that race played any part in this incident. could it have? of course, but to insist, practically demand, it did without knowing more about powell than what we've learned so far from this incident is jumping to a serious conclusion.

Fair enough, but I think we know more about the guy than you let on, including the fact that he's acted this way at least one other time in the past, also to a minority.

[ty]

Not totally off topic from the thread......is it?

I feel he had poor judgment, too strict of an adherence to the rule, and maybe he was racist too

Today I dropped my sister off at UT. The guy at the university entrance booth told me to make a U-turn and drop her off near the booth.

I literally drove about 15-20 feet, made a U-turn, and dropped her off. Then I noticed he was writing my license plate number down. After dropping the sis off, I pulled up and he put up a sign for me to stop.

He told me that I did not drop my sister off where he had told me, which was literally 10 feet away from where I dropped my sister off, and was going to write me a $25 ticket that would be sent to me in the mail.

WTF!

I complained like any normal person would do about this fool's idiocy. I told him I was going to appeal the ticket if one came in the mail.

At 2:00pm I'm gonna have to go pick up my sister again. I'll probably drive by the exact same booth with the exact same jerk. What should I say?

Let the people speak!

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by ty

Not totally off topic from the thread......is it?

I feel he had poor judgment, too strict of an adherence to the rule, and maybe he was racist too

Today I dropped my sister off at UT. The guy at the university entrance booth told me to make a U-turn and drop her off near the booth.

I literally drove about 15-20 feet, made a U-turn, and dropped her off. Then I noticed he was writing my license plate number down. After dropping the sis off, I pulled up and he put up a sign for me to stop.

He told me that I did not drop my sister off where he had told me, which was literally 10 feet away from where I dropped my sister off, and was going to write me a $25 ticket that would be sent to me in the mail.

WTF!

I complained like any normal person would do about this fool's idiocy. I told him I was going to appeal the ticket if one came in the mail.

At 2:00pm I'm gonna have to go pick up my sister again. I'll probably drive by the exact same booth with the exact same jerk. What should I say?

Let the people speak!

Just tell em the checks in the mail

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If you're saying that you don't think race had anything to do with his course of action, then obviously I disagree. But that sure doesn't seem like what you're saying, given--



So, I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at.

My first thought was that race was certainly a factor, but I have since changed my mind on that. It may still have been, but the more I have learned about this officer, the more I think it's likely that he would have treated a 30-year-old white man just the same.

The reason I asked if you were doing a bit is that I can't see any firm evidence that would lead you to say conclusively that race was definitely a factor.

[rabbitproof]

Laco,

I've meet a good cops and I'm friends with an ex-chief so I do not believe all cops are out to bag them minorities or have penis issues.

But what I am saying is.. the more responsibility, the higher the standard. These people have the ability to change your life - sometimes, regardless if you show good/bad judgment.

You're lucky if you've never needed to seek out police for any reason. If and should you ever need to, may they not let you down.

[92bDad]

Here's another tidbit, taken from an off-line conversation.

I have a friend who happens to be a police officer. When he is out of uniform, he is about as great of a guy as you can find...but when he gets in uniform, he changes. He was asked one day about this...here's his answer:

When in uniform, everyone lies to you...regardless of if its needed or not. Basically, he can ask someone where they are going (Conversation with anyone, not a traffice stop) and they respond with a lie. Basically people treat uniformed police with a bit of a guilty conscience (SP?)

Thus in uniform there is a major mask being put on by both the police and citizens.

This doesn't justify Officer Powell and the incident of discussion...but for me gave a bit of insight into the mind of police officers.

What gives people the justification to lie to the police? Being a Police Officer takes having some pretty thick skin...given the way the police are treated by many citizens.

Hopefully nobody on this board are a-holes towards police officers.

[rabbitproof]

Why does he assume everybody lies to him?

Guilty until proven innocent?

[Flacolaco]

The same way (some) people assume cops are guilty of being power hungry, racist jerks before they even open their mouths...?

(Two wrongs make a right, right?)

[jthig32]

I can't believe this thread is still active.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

(Two wrongs make a right, right?)

Three lefts make a right too...

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I don't at all appreciate the insinuation that I'm "ignorant."

But, to be more civil to you than you've been to me and answer your question, I think there are plenty of situations where people are assholes in a way that has nothing to do with race. I also think this situation clearly wasn't one of them.

Again, if a 30-year-old white dude steps out of that car, the situation probably goes down differently. That's just common sense, as much as it's common sense to say that the Rodney King beatings probably don't go down like that if it's a white guy who steps out of that car.

Why is it common sense? Once again, you've made another ingnorant statement.

And then you go on to compare two completely different scenarios... So, you're ignorant and bad at making comparisons?... you're struggling.

[MX425]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I can't believe this thread is still active.

slow day at work...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Why is it common sense? Once again, you've made another ingnorant statement.

And then you go on to compare two completely different scenarios... So, you're ignorant and bad at making comparisons?... you're struggling.

You're right, Murph. I'm struggling. You can't look past the surface of a completely viable comparison, can't even spell the word "ignorant," and I'm the one who's struggling.

Tell me--people clearly knew immediately ex post that the Rodney King beatings were racially-motivated, at least to some extent. How did they know that? Was there some extrinsic evidence immediately after the beatings indicating that race had something to do with it? Did the cops come out and say, "Yeah we beat that guy because he was black!"?

The cops had reason to believe King was on PCP, and that he was drawing a weapon; and still the natural, logical, and frankly, indisputable, assumption was that the cops were partially motivated by the guy's race. That exact same assumption is reasonable here. The situation is different in the extremity of the police conduct (obviously), and in the behavior of the suspect, but it's not at all different in regard to the intuitive assumptions.

Next time someone makes a comparison, why don't you actually turn on your brain and think about it at the intended level of abstraction? It's not always about whether the facts of two scenarios align.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

The same way (some) people assume cops are guilty of being power hungry, racist jerks before they even open their mouths...?

(Two wrongs make a right, right?)

Just to clarify, I don't think that all cops are racist jerks. I'm sure the vast majority of cops are not racist, and that at least a significant percentage of cops are not jerks. My opinion about this is confined to this particular matter.

[chumdawg]

LDub...I am having a hard time following some of things you are saying. What I *think* you are saying is that the Moats scenario could not possibly--absolutely not at all possibly--have played out the way it did had Moats been a white man.

To me that seems like an awfully large leap.

[92bDad]

I know that we can find a ton of video clips that are like that from Officer Powell's car...but to get a taste of the other side, here are just a few clips that show what cops have to face on a daily basis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAhKGlh1OEY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dBMHF3QvtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEpUtoUzE4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoBpkDrQLFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZITZIvv1c54

[92bDad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShMDT0NmPms

After all the debates...this link is kinda funny...and thats a wrap!!!

[Murphy3]

I think we're seeing that Powell has a long history of abusing power.. and race doesn't appear to be the motivating factor. just a guy with power going on a power trip.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I think we're seeing that Moats has a long history of abusing power.. and race doesn't appear to be the motivating factor. just a guy with power going on a power trip.

Um, don't you mean Powell?

Moats is the football player, not the cop...

[Murphy3]

Yep...obviously..

[mcsluggo]

a couple of not-particularly-insightful, and hopefully not-particularly-controversial statements:

1. Everyone is more comfortable around people "like them". It is easily possible that this dude was less comfortable dealing with a black family than he would've been dealing with people that were just like him. In the same vein, I (as a yakee-scum that lived in San Francisco) might have had less automatic good will than somebody who went to his high school with him, even though I am a 40 year old white man. Pointing this fact out isn't necessarily an indictment, just an observation. How people DEAL with their relative comfort zones is what determines how much of a p.o.s. they are.

2. There are duchebags in all walks of life. Period. However, that said, people get to choose what they do for a living, and some professions have a greater propensity to attract d-bags. Both police and doctors disproportionately attract some of the most wonderful, civil minded people on the planet... people that just want to do good for humanity. Both ALSO attract a disproportionate amount of d-bags, that are only attracted to power (wealth in the case of doctors, pure Napoleonic ability to lord over people and make them squirm, in the case of police). This is unfortunate, but true. It doesn't take a very high percentage of a-holes to taint the whole pool's relationship with the rest of society, either. Cops REALLY need to work hard to patrol them selves... it is very important, because we NEED them, and a force with a tainted relationship with the society it is tasked to protect is greatly diminished.

[alexamenos]

^^^yeah

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

a couple of not-particularly-insightful, and hopefully not-particularly-controversial statements:

1. Everyone is more comfortable around people "like them". It is easily possible that this dude was less comfortable dealing with a black family than he would've been dealing with people that were just like him. In the same vein, I (as a yakee-scum that lived in San Francisco) might have had less automatic good will than somebody who went to his high school with him, even though I am a 40 year old white man. Pointing this fact out isn't necessarily an indictment, just an observation. How people DEAL with their relative comfort zones is what determines how much of a p.o.s. they are.

2. There are duchebags in all walks of life. Period. However, that said, people get to choose what they do for a living, and some professions have a greater propensity to attract d-bags. Both police and doctors disproportionately attract some of the most wonderful, civil minded people on the planet... people that just want to do good for humanity. Both ALSO attract a disproportionate amount of d-bags, that are only attracted to power (wealth in the case of doctors, pure Napoleonic ability to lord over people and make them squirm, in the case of police). This is unfortunate, but true. It doesn't take a very high percentage of a-holes to taint the whole pool's relationship with the rest of society, either. Cops REALLY need to work hard to patrol them selves... it is very important, because we NEED them, and a force with a tainted relationship with the society it is tasked to protect is greatly diminished.

Those are fair comments.

My response is that people who choose to go into professions such as Medical, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighting...basically Civil Servants, wind up dealing with more than their fair share of d-bags on a daily basis. To expect these great people to NOT be effected by the idiots of the criminal element as well as everyday people who turn into d-bags whenever they get around someone in a uniform is simply assinine.

I understand holding the Police to a higher standard, but I also believe we should provide them with an equally higher amount of grace, giving the type of people that they have to deal with and the things that they have to see.

Personally, I think you have to be somewhat insane to become an officer, but I have the greatest of respect for these men and women who serve and protect!!!

[alexamenos]

brown-shirted skinheads assault black ambulance driver on way to hospital with sick woman.

seriously..

(and I mean that the driver was black, not the ambulance)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

brown-shirted skinheads assault black ambulance driver on way to hospital with sick woman.

seriously..

(and I mean that the driver was black, not the ambulance)

The ambulance driver was white or Caucasion-American, his partner who is black or African-American, was riding in the patient compartment.

Thus the orginal issue with the Police officer, a White individual, pulling over the ambulance is simply an individual who has problems.

Kudos to the two EMT individuals, and Kudos to the family member who filmed the entire incident.

Based on the Video evidence and the statements provided by the two EMT guys, the officers involved should be FIRED!!!

For the record, this does not appear to have anything to do with Race, but rather another clear case of a couple of individuals OVERSTEPPING their bounds as police officers.

This actually reminds me of some moderators...There used to be one over the Dallas Morning News, which eventually led to that message board virtually dieing.

[92bDad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGW3o...eature=related

[chumdawg]

Why the hell did they get pulled over?

[DirkFTW]

maybe a noise violation from running a siren in the middle of the day?

[Big Boy Laroux]

there are a few articles linked from within that video. Apparently, the ambulance was running with its lights off - police car came up fast behind them, running lights but no siren. Ambulance driver saw them very late, and yielded very late. After the cop responded to what it needed to, it waited for the ambulance and pulled it over for failure to yield. The cop also thought the driver flipped him the bird. Then it got out of hand.

[rabbitproof]

lol @ that sig