General Pres. Candidate 08 Thread

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by ocelot_ark

Barack Obama, though I'm not very political, seems like a pretty damn strong candidate to me.

obama has almost no shot. I hate to say the reason he has no shot but it is kind of an elephant in the room. I dont know if you know the phrase "yellow-dog" democrat or not but basically it means that anyone with that title would vote for whoever the democrats ran for anything even if it was a yellow dog. Most of these guys are elderly white men. I know quite a few men like this. The part that is saddening is that alot of men like this are the exact reason that Obama has absolutely no chance. Obama isnt white. I know that sounds like a bad thing to say and actually there is a very good chance i would vote for him depending on how things went in the debates but he would lose such a large percentage of the elderly white male vote that is the heart of the democratic party. I just dont see how he could win.

Also alot of the support ive seen for him comes from college students. This is the worst possible thing for you as a politician because college kids just dont vote in large enough numbers. We saw the same thing with kinky friedman. college kids everywhere were all over him and then when the election came he ended up at the bottom of the pile. Thats because college kids dont vote for whatever reason. I do, but as a group we dont. Thats why rick perry can effectively end the jr college system in texas but get re-elected because he didnt hurt anything for older people. The other thing about obama is that he is pretty young for a presidential candidate if im not mistaken. I like him and think hes a good candidate. I just dont see him having a legit shot at winning.

[Mavdog]

Clinton launches 2008 presidential bid
By BETH FOUHY and MARC HUMBERT, Associated Press Writers

New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton says on her Web site that she is entering the 2008 presidential race.

Clinton's announcement, coming days after Sen. Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) shook up the 2008 race with his bid to become the first black to occupy the White House, establishes the most diverse political field. Clinton is considered the front-runner, with Obama and 2004 vice presidential nominee John Edwards top contenders. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who would be the first Hispanic, intends to announce his plans on Sunday.

With millions in the bank, a vast network of supporters and top status in nearly every poll of Democratic contenders, Clinton has launched the most viable effort by a female candidate to capture the White House. She is the first presidential spouse to pursue the office; her husband, Bill, served two terms in the White House from 1993-2001.

The announcement was the latest step in a remarkable political and personal journey for the 59-year-old Clinton — from Arkansas attorney to first lady to New York senator to front-runner for the Democratic nomination.

A polarizing figure since she burst onto the national scene during her husband's first presidential campaign, Clinton engenders strong opinions among voters, who either revere or revile her but rarely are ambivalent.

She often is compared to her husband and found lacking in his natural charisma. Others have criticized her for being overly cautious and calculating when so many voters say they crave authenticity.

Many Democrats, eager to reclaim the White House after eight years of President Bush, fret that she carries too much baggage from her husband's scandal-plagued presidency to win a general election. Among many voters, she is best known for her disastrous attempt in 1993 to overhaul the nation's health care system and for standing by her husband after his marital infidelity.

Clinton's allies counter by citing her strengths — intelligence, depth of experience, work ethic and immense command of policy detail. Advisers argue those skills, plus her popularity among women and younger voters, position her strongly as both a primary and general election candidate.

In her first run for the Senate from New York in 2000 — a state where she had never lived and where she was branded a carpetbagger by many — Clinton won a landslide victory. Through dogged campaigning — including a "listening tour" of the state's 62 counties — Clinton was able to convince voters even in the conservative upstate region that she would represent them effectively in Washington.

Clinton's 2002 vote authorizing military force in Iraq has become a significant political challenge — angering activists who want her to repudiate her vote and aggressively seek to block Bush's proposed troop increase.

She has toughened her criticism of the conduct of the war and Bush's handling of the conflict, and she recently called for capping troop levels in Iraq at around 140,000. She has rejected calls from liberal groups and Edwards to cut off funds for Bush's planned increase in U.S. troops.

Clinton grew up in the Chicago suburbs in a conservative Republican household and was a "Goldwater girl" in 1964, supporting conservative icon Barry Goldwater in the presidential race won by Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson.

By 1968, she was a Democrat. After graduating from Wellesley College, she attended law school at Yale where she met her future husband, Bill Clinton. In 1974, she worked on the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment investigation of President Nixon before moving to Arkansas where she and Clinton were married in 1975.

A key player in her husband's political career in Arkansas, she leapt to the national scene during the 1992 presidential campaign when the two fought to survive the scandal over Gennifer Flowers' allegations of a lengthy affair with Clinton when he was the state's governor. The Clintons appeared together on "60 Minutes" to talk about their marriage — her first famous "Stand by Your Man" moment.

As first lady, Clinton headed up a disastrous first-term effort to overhaul the nation's health care insurance system. There was more controversy as the couple battled allegations of impropriety over land deals and fundraising, missing records from her former Arkansas law firm and even her quick and hefty profits from an investment in cattle futures.

There was no let-up in the second term, as the president found himself denying — then admitting — having a sexual relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. As he battled impeachment and possible removal from office, his wife's poll numbers rose.

Her own political career began to take shape in late 1998 when New York Democrat Daniel Patrick Moynihan announced he would not seek re-election to the Senate seat he had held since 1976. Within a few weeks, the first lady was being talked up by fellow Democrats as a possible Moynihan replacement.

On February 12, 1999, the very day the Senate was voting not to remove her husband from office, Clinton met in the White House's family quarters with veteran New York Democrat Harold Ickes, a former Clinton administration deputy chief of staff, to talk about a Senate run.

The campaign trail was not always friendly. For almost every cheer, there was a shouted "Go home, Hillary!" and the emerging Republican theme that carpetbagger Clinton simply wanted to use New York as a launching pad for a later presidential run. She pledged to serve her full six-year Senate term if elected.

In the Senate, Clinton quickly moved to establish herself as someone who could work with Republicans or Democrats, often sponsoring high-profile legislation with GOP colleagues.

[jacktruth]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

Clinton launches 2008 presidential bid
By BETH FOUHY and MARC HUMBERT, Associated Press Writers

New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton says on her Web site that she is entering the 2008 presidential race.

Shocking.

[jacktruth]

There's some news today about Barak Obama. . .attended Muslim school for 4 years. Not that big of a deal, really. It's easy to spin to positive.

I still can't get over the fact that his middle name is Hussein.

What is interesting about this Muslim school thing is that it was uncovered and made public by Hilliary's campaign people.

On another note, Hilliary is a witch. Personal opinion.

[Usually Lurkin]

Hillary on hardball (sorta)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH49pKxKWes&eurl=

[Mavdog]

that skit was one of the better ones out of snl in a LONG time.

truly funny.... "he might actually look at the issue and change his mind, is that someone you could trust?" and "I'm a female AND half black..."

priceless!

[Usually Lurkin]

I was listening to a story on NPR about how the main stream media isn't far enough to the left because they spend all their time covering Obama and Clinton and treat Kucinich like he's fringe.

That was hilarious.

[Mavdog]

kucinich makes me consider a philosophical question.....

if kucinich fell out of the race, would it make a sound?

[FishForLunch]

Have any one off you guys taken up Hillary on her offer to just chat and exchange ideas? How long will you think she will just chat and avoid telling us what she stands for?

[big_pth]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

There's some news today about Barak Obama. . .attended Muslim school for 4 years. Not that big of a deal, really. It's easy to spin to positive.

I still can't get over the fact that his middle name is Hussein.

What is interesting about this Muslim school thing is that it was uncovered and made public by Hilliary's campaign people.

On another note, Hilliary is a witch. Personal opinion.

He was there for 2 years between 6 and 8 years old. Then he went to a Roman Catholic school for 2 years. It was not an "muslim" school, it was a public school in Indonesia where his parents were.
While I agree Hillary is a bad candidate, she and her staff did not put this out there, a newspaper owned by Newscorp did, and then said they got it from a Clinton staffer. Newscorp is parent company of FOX news.

[Mavdog]

Kerry bows out of '08 presidential race
By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent

Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts, the Democrats' losing presidential candidate in 2004, does not intend to run again in 2008, a Democratic official said Wednesday.

This official said Kerry intends to seek a new six-year term in the Senate.

Kerry plans to disclose his political plans in remarks on the Senate floor later in the day, according to this official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid pre-empting a formal announcement.

Kerry, 64, who lost the White House when Ohio voted for President Bush by 118,601 votes on election night in November 2004, was attending a Senate Foreign Relations Committee meeting and unavailable for comment.

His decision leaves a field of nine Democrats running or signaling their intention to do so, including Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Barack Obama (news, bio, voting record) of Illinois, and Kerry's 2004 running mate John Edwards.

The Republican field has a similar number with Bush constitutionally barred from seeking a third term.

Kerry's 2004 campaign drew widespread criticism from fellow Democrats after his defeat. His critics said he had failed to make a forceful enough response to Republican criticism as well as charges by conservative groups that he did not deserve the medals he won for combat in the Vietnam War.

The Massachusetts senator stirred unhappy memories for Democrats last fall, when he botched a joke and led Republicans to accuse him of attacking U.S. troops in Iraq.

He apologized, then hastily scrapped several days of campaigning for fellow Democrats as party leaders urged him to avoid becoming an unwanted issue in a campaign they were on the way to winning.

The Massachusetts lawmaker decided to clarify his political plans on a day in which he participated in a debate over the war in Iraq by invoking memories of Vietnam. At the committee hearing, he said a memorable question he first posed in 1971 had relevance today: "How do you ask a man to be the last person to die for a mistake?"

Despite his difficulties on a national level, Kerry customarily rolls up large victory margins at home in Massachusetts. He won his first term in 1984.

[MavKikiNYC]

Supply your own caption.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Supply your own caption.

John Kerry Uses Shadow Puppets to Explain His Iraq Strategy

[alexamenos]

Godzillary Clinton, Your Next Prez.....interesting article, here --

The vaulting ambition of America's Lady Macbeth
Gerard Baker

Hillary Clinton’s shameless political reconstructive surgery




You can measure the scale of an American president’s troubles by the number of skutniks he deploys during his State of the Union address.

Every year during his big set-piece speech to Congress, the president will digress from the main thrust of his remarks to offer fulsome praise to some member of the audience in the gallery. This person will have been carefully selected in advance by the president’s speechwriters as an exemplar of some virtue and placed there for the purpose. The television producers will have been alerted in advance so that at the right moment, as the president talks about the heroics of this American Everyman, he or she can rise self-consciously and receive the praise of a grateful nation. This now obligatory part of a constitutional ritual is called a skutnik after the name of the first person so honoured.

One January evening in 1982, Lenny Skutnik, a government employee, dived into the freezing waters of the Potomac River to rescue a victim of a plane crash. Two weeks later, during his second State of the Union address, with the US mired in recession, Ronald Reagan had Mr Skutnik sit in the gallery and paid a moving tribute to his heroics.

This week, for his penultimate State of the Union, Mr Bush had a veritable galaxy of skutniks — soldiers, military people, a firefighter. Whatever you might feel about the wisdom of Mr Bush’s Iraq policy or the feasibility of his plans to wean Americans off petrol, you can’t help but stand and cheer the good works of a decent person.

But there was something unusual about this year’s constellation of ordinary American heroes, beyond the sheer numbers. Usually the skutnik is a presidential privilege. But so intense already is the competition for the 2008 presidential race that others have muscled in.

And so Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton had a skutnik of her own. She arranged for the son of a New York policeman sick with lung cancer to be there. As it happened, the man’s father died that day, and the son’s grief became a sad and very visible coda to the event.

This little incident, the skilfully choreographed exploitation of a human tragedy, the cynically manipulated deployment of public sympathy in service of a personal political end, offered a timely insight into the character of the politician who this week launched the most anticipated presidential election campaign in modern history.

There are many reasons people think Mrs Clinton will not be elected president. She lacks warmth; she is too polarising a figure; the American people don’t want to relive the psychodrama of the eight years of the Clinton presidency.

But they all miss this essential counterpoint. As you consider her career this past 15 years or so in the public spotlight, it is impossible not to be struck, and even impressed, by the sheer ruthless, unapologetic, unshameable way in which she has pursued this ambition, and confirmed that there is literally nothing she will not do, say, think or feel to achieve it. Here, finally, is someone who has taken the black arts of the politician’s trade, the dissembling, the trimming, the pandering, all the way to their logical conclusion.

ctd....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFr...6485-6,00.html

[big_pth]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

Godzillary Clinton, Your Next Prez.....interesting article, here --

The vaulting ambition of America's Lady Macbeth
Gerard Baker

Hillary Clinton’s shameless political reconstructive surgery

Hillary is not a good candidate. She is a large target and a bought and sold politician. Never wanted her to run.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by big_pth

Hillary is not a good candidate. She is a large target and a bought and sold politician. Never wanted her to run.

The point of the article, which is IMHO unpleasant but entirely valid, is that being "a bought and sold politician" does not make one less likely to win....certainly no less likely to win than being fat and sidelined makes one less likely to start at center for the Eastern Conference

Godzillary is a shameless hussy with a solid political machine. This is her strength, and it's quite enough in my estimation. Republicans will continue to slide downward for the next two years, and Godzillary will pull in the Dem vote and pander enough to other demographics to get over the top.

the ever smiling national socialist lesbian lizard queen is your next prez....

[Mavdog]

it is interesting to read how in some eyes hillary is "ruthless, unapologetic, unshameable", that she is "a bought and sold politician", and even a "socialist lesbian lizard queen".

quite an assortment of negative stereotypes...

tell me, how is it that hillary is more "ruthless" than say McCain, or Brownback, or Guilani, or Edwards?

is she more "unapologetic" than Hunter? Brownback?

is she more of a "bought and sold politician" than her contemporaries mentioned above or others who have thrown their hat into the ring?

and what in her actions leads anyone to believe that she is not only a "socialist" but also a "lesbian"? should we hurl invective at all the men in the race for possibly being gay? after all apparently having a marriage and giving birth to a daughter doesn't preclude her from being a homosexual so why should we presume any of the men in the race who are married are not homosexual as well?

I'd suggest that hillary be treated no different than the male candidates whom she is facing in the race. the fact that she is a women shouldn't lead her to be called a "bitch" merely because she is aggresive, as we don't call a male politican a "bastard" merely due to their showing themselves to be aggressive like she is. I'd refrain in calling her a "lesbian" just like we typically don't call her competition "homos" if they show themselves to be sensitive men.

equal opportunity. equal treatment.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it is interesting to read how in some eyes hillary is "ruthless, unapologetic, unshameable", that she is "a bought and sold politician", and even a "socialist lesbian lizard queen".

quite an assortment of negative stereotypes...

tell me, how is it that hillary is more "ruthless" than say McCain, or Brownback, or Guilani, or Edwards?

is she more "unapologetic" than Hunter? Brownback?

is she more of a "bought and sold politician" than her contemporaries mentioned above or others who have thrown their hat into the ring?

and what in her actions leads anyone to believe that she is not only a "socialist" but also a "lesbian"? should we hurl invective at all the men in the race for possibly being gay? after all apparently having a marriage and giving birth to a daughter doesn't preclude her from being a homosexual so why should we presume any of the men in the race who are married are not homosexual as well?

I'd suggest that hillary be treated no different than the male candidates whom she is facing in the race. the fact that she is a women shouldn't lead her to be called a "bitch" merely because she is aggresive, as we don't call a male politican a "bastard" merely due to their showing themselves to be aggressive like she is. I'd refrain in calling her a "lesbian" just like we typically don't call her competition "homos" if they show themselves to be sensitive men.

equal opportunity. equal treatment.

she's plainly a socialist, and the lesbian bit is just my bit of speculation that her relationship with ballin' Bill is every bit as much an arrangement of appearances as the relationship between carpet munching Eleanor and her unapologetically fascist husband, Franklin D (tho histoy won't dare call franklin's version of national socialism, 'fascism').

the article posted makes the case for her shamelessness, and I only argue that it is her skill in the black art of politicking that makes her the most likely to be our next elected dictator....

...that is to say, I do not argue that she is less able than her male counterparts, but far more skilled.........this has nothing to do with dicks or lack thereof.........

anywho, i think 'ever smiling national socialist lesbian lizard queen' has a nice ring to it, and if it didn't offend liberal wankers a bit it wouldn't be funny.

cheers

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

she's plainly a socialist

hurling it again, eh?

so tell us, just what in her proposals is socialist? does she advocate a redistribution of wealth? does she advocate the nationalzation of any industry? has she gone on a rampage about "workers rights"?

nope. none.

and the lesbian bit is just my bit of speculation that her relationship with ballin' Bill is every bit as much an arrangement of appearances as the relationship between carpet munching Eleanor and her unapologetically fascist husband, Franklin D (tho histoy won't dare call franklin's version of national socialism, 'fascism').

so if she isn't the loyal (which she was) dutiful (have no idea) wife of bill she must be a "lesbian"?

that is just the gender inequality I'm against. congrats, you are the epitome of the sexist male chauvinist!

the article posted makes the case for her shamelessness, and I only argue that it is her skill in the black art of politicking that makes her the most likely to be our next elected dictator....

yeah, it isn't "shameless" when bush does the VERY SAME THING is it?

...that is to say, I do not argue that she is less able than her male counterparts, but far more skilled.........this has nothing to do with dicks or lack thereof.........

seems that you feel that belittling, sexist comments are compliments. odd to say the least.

anywho, i think 'ever smiling national socialist lesbian lizard queen' has a nice ring to it, and if it didn't offend liberal wankers a bit it wouldn't be funny.

cheers

it isn't the phraseology that is offensive, it is the lack of equal treatment.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it isn't the phraseology that is offensive, it is the lack of equal treatment.

I'm honestly not certain, Mavdog, whether being Liberal makes one incapable of grasping a larger point, or whether being incapable of grasping a larger point makes one more likely to become a Liberal. 'tis an interesting thing to ponder, but perhaps another time.

You are a correct, tho in an unwitting sort of way.

I do not view Hillary Clinton and McCain (eg, et al) as equals....if I did I wouldn't be quite so confident that Hillary will be the next president and dictator of these united states.

(and I might add....I'm almost postive that George W. Bush will not be the next electa-dictator of the united states, hence I'm not sure why you bring him into the equation)

cheers

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I'm honestly not certain, Mavdog, whether being Liberal makes one incapable of grasping a larger point, or whether being incapable of grasping a larger point makes one more likely to become a Liberal. 'tis an interesting thing to ponder, but perhaps another time.

You are a correct, tho in an unwitting sort of way.

I do not view Hillary Clinton and McCain (eg, et al) as equals....if I did I wouldn't be quite so confident that Hillary will be the next president and dictator of these united states.

cheers

just what makes a person"liberal"? desire for equality? the desire for people to be treated with respect?

in the eyes of a person who is prone to calling the elected leader of our country a "dictator" it would appear to include the vast majority of the citizens of the usa....

as far as your prediction on hillary, I'll take that bet. it is difficult to envision that she, or any other women for that matter, could overcome the flood of negativism that being of member of their sex generates in the political arena.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

just what makes a person"liberal"?

a propensity for tossing softballs, for starters...I could add other things to the list of what makes one a "Liberal," but you make it far too easy.

Originally Posted by Mavdog

in the eyes of a person who is prone to calling the elected leader of our country a "dictator" it would appear to include the vast majority of the citizens of the usa....

you disagree that the president of the united states is a dictator??? hmmmm...I wasn't aware that there were such bizarre opinions out there....anyhooo.....

Originally Posted by Mavdog

I'll take that bet. it is difficult to envision that she, or any other women for that matter, could overcome the flood of negativism that being of member of their sex generates in the political arena.

and her lies part of her strength.....

consider --

I argue that HR Clinton is far and away the more consummate politician than any other likely entree into the race, and because of her/his superior skill, s/he can and will win the forthcoming election.

That HR Clinton has no penis, and that McCain (eg and et al) does is neither her nor there in my consideration. Yet this matters not one bit to ewe.....this is prima facie evidence, in your view, of my entrenched sexist attitude.........I can only imagine what you might say if I argued instead that she was not the equal of her likely opponents!

This election will be framed as a choice between a free and liberal west or ululating ragheads who want women to be nothing other than breeders and burqa models.....that is obviously a favorable frame for the national socialist lesbian lizard queen.

...you've already accepted half the frame........

cheers

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

a propensity for tossing softballs, for starters...I could add other things to the list of what makes one a "Liberal," but you make it far too easy.

"softballs"???
yikes. I was under the impression that this was a dialogue with a person who has their eyes open. much to my chagrin they are not.

you disagree that the president of the united states is a dictator??? hmmmm...I wasn't aware that there were such bizarre opinions out there....anyhooo.....

funny stuff.

and her lies part of her strength.....

consider --

I argue that HR Clinton is far and away the more consummate politician than any other likely entree into the race, and because of her/his superior skill, s/he can and will win the forthcoming election.

but she is just one of many. you are under an illusion that the other candidates are not "consumate politicians" when in fact they are, and of her equal imho.

That HR Clinton has no penis, and that McCain (eg and et al) does is neither her nor there in my consideration. Yet this matters not one bit to ewe.....this is prima facie evidence, in your view, of my entrenched sexist attitude.........I can only imagine what you might say if I argued instead that she was not the equal of her likely opponents!

no, it is not your estimation that hillary is an equal or better politican that reveals your sexism, it is the reference to "lesbian lizard queen" that does a superb job.

unless of course you intend that "lesbian lizard queen" is a platitude.

This election will be framed as a choice between a free and liberal west or ululating ragheads who want women to be nothing other than breeders and burqa models.....that is obviously a favorable frame for the national socialist lesbian lizard queen.

...you've already accepted half the frame........

cheers

lmao! this will in no way be a choice such as you describe. your frame is not only off the mark, it is laughable in its focus. the only way for hillary to prevail is if the discussion is NOT about the correct role of women or the acceptable conduct of females in western society.

in other words, if hillary has to spend time talking about being a woman, she loses.

btw, if a women becomes pres, will you continue to use the moniker of "dictator" or will you use "dictatress"?

[alexamenos]

mavdog ..

thanks for the discussion, but you're such a hardcore establishment liberal it's tough to connect in any way.

let's just say that if Godzillary the Lesbian Lizard Queen is Dictatress in Chief 2 years from now then I'm right and you're wrong..........

........and if she isn't....

....well, come to think of it i win either way.

cheers

ps...is it dictatress or vaginatator?

[Five-ofan]

the basics of mavdogs feelings about clintons chances at the whitehouse seem to be that he feels that she will lose enough portion of the votes simply by being a woman that whatever else she might gain by being a superior politician or candidate will not be enough to overcome those she loses by being a woman. Thats pretty much how i feel about obama. I have generally voted republican but i would probably vote for him if he ran. That said i can tell you, hes not going to win. The reason neither of them will win is that they are both democratic candidates which means that a large portion of their support is elderly white men who lived through the depression. Those people are also generally speaking the least likely type of people to vote for either obama or hilary.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

the basics of mavdogs feelings about clintons chances at the whitehouse seem to be that he feels that she will lose enough portion of the votes simply by being a woman that whatever else she might gain by being a superior politician or candidate will not be enough to overcome those she loses by being a woman. Thats pretty much how i feel about obama. I have generally voted republican but i would probably vote for him if he ran. That said i can tell you, hes not going to win. The reason neither of them will win is that they are both democratic candidates which means that a large portion of their support is elderly white men who lived through the depression. Those people are also generally speaking the least likely type of people to vote for either obama or hilary.

you're right, of course, that Barrack doesn't stand a chance....if for no other reason than that the Lizard queen will eat him for breakfast...

i certainly understand mavdogs' argument -- vis. the primitive and unenlightened nasty western male simply can't imagine sending a chick to do a man's job.....

....nevermind that the english gladly put dear old Maggie Thatcher in office two decades ago, and this the english did even tho they are arguably twice as racist and twice as sexist as their american cousins.....

we might also note that those Stodgy Ole Republican Males, the bastion of all things evil and sexist, are generally quite content to have a black female serving as Secretary of State........well....she is a secretary, so perhaps she's kept adequately in her place, but I digress....

(IOW, if english males can pick a chick, and Republimales can stand a Condi, the american everyman can vote for a chick)

.......anyhoo...I understand the argument, i just think the argument is based more on liberal mythology than on the actual dynamics of our present society.

To be certain, I think saying someone is a very skilled politician is like saying someone is a skilled thief, liar, and whore. It is nonetheless a skill.

...and Hillary is very politicially skilled.
Skilled and extremely well-funded..............
.....with a mobilized and capable political machine.....

.......and partisan useful idiots who will bleat the party line that any criticism of the lesbian lizard queen is a matter of sexism, just as even national conservatives invariably reflect on the racist undertones of anyone who criticizes madam condi.

....................

alternatively stated.....

no one else in the Democratic Party can match her clout........ergo she will get the nomination;

hence the next prez will either be the lesbian lizard queen or a republican....

George W. Bush is currently in office, hence no republican stands a prayer.......

.....ergo Godzillary is your next prez, barring injuries of course.........

qed, or somesuch.

cheers

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

i certainly understand mavdogs' argument -- vis. the primitive and unenlightened nasty western male simply can't imagine sending a chick to do a man's job.....

....nevermind that the english gladly put dear old Maggie Thatcher in office two decades ago, and this the english did even tho they are arguably twice as racist and twice as sexist as their american cousins.....

that's a very baffling assessment of the english.

btw they never elected thatcher as the pm, or any other pm for that matter.

2x's as "sexist"???

perhaps you forgot that england has a queen....

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

mavdog ..

thanks for the discussion, but you're such a hardcore establishment liberal it's tough to connect in any way.

you like to try and put people in neat little boxes eh?

what a joke.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

you like to try and put people in neat little boxes eh?

what a joke.

if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, as they say.

but then again, I may be a mammalist.

anyhoo.....I readily admit that the paradigm through which I view modern politics is incommensurable with the "establishment liberalism" (i don't know what else to call it) that permeates our national government. I dare say that your paradigm isn't.

incommensurable paradigms, as they say.

cheers

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by MavKikiNYC

Supply your own caption.

John Kerry showing the extent of his integrity.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, as they say.

but then again, I may be a mammalist.

anyhoo.....I readily admit that the paradigm through which I view modern politics is incommensurable with the "establishment liberalism" (i don't know what else to call it) that permeates our national government. I dare say that your paradigm isn't.

incommensurable paradigms, as they say.

cheers

"incommensurable paradigms"?

not surprising coming from a person who equates the office of the presidency to a dictator, but obtuse nevertheless.

[Five-ofan]

mavdog, did i get your basic idea on hilary right? Do you feel basically the same way i do about obama or did i read too much into your statements?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

mavdog, did i get your basic idea on hilary right? Do you feel basically the same way i do about obama or did i read too much into your statements?

generally, yes, tho i do not place hillary's political abilities above all of the competition. I do not see her as a "superior politician", there's some very good politicians who are her equal. she's good, yes, she has a seasoned cadre of people around her (much of them bill's old group).

it's the conundrum...if she acts like the men she's running against to show that she is as tough as they are, she's labeled a bitch..or worse, like "lesbian lizard". exhibiting toughness brings out the sexism inherent in a patriarchal society. if she doesn't try and show her toughness, then she will be labeled as being too soft and not capable of making the hard choices the office demands.

hillary is riding on the idea that she is like bill, that she can lead the dems back to the promised land when things were so much better in terms of a positive direction. imo they are fooling themselves, because this is a different decade with a different world. things are never just like they were. could she be a good pres? sure, she's smart and has the capability of organizing a good group of people to serve under her. at the same time she could be a failure as well, trying too hard to prove herself by setting ambitious goals that would never be accomplished, taking the focus and energy away from attainable goals.

I expect obama to not face much resistance from voters due to his ethnicity. although I do see racism still existing in america, it is not deeply seated. in other words, yes there are people who make racist remarks about black people and continue to express negative stereotypes, yet when most of these same people see or meet a person such as obama who speaks intelligently and acts with thought, they drop those ideas and say to themselves "he's different..".

obama's biggest test imho is to show that in spite of his youth and inexperience he is capable and up to the task. that is not easy. otoh his lack of time inside washington's political scene is making him attractive to many voters who want a change in business as usual.

should be a fun race to follow.

[Five-ofan]

yeah, i wasnt saying she was a superior politician i was just saying that even if she was, her gender would put her at a big enough disadvantage that i dont think it would help.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by dude1394

John Kerry showing the extent of his integrity.

John Kerry showing how hard it is for him to keep his decades straight.

From the Davos Economic Summmit

Kerry said the Bush administration has failed to adequately address a number of foreign policy issues.

"When we walk away from global warming, Kyoto, when we are irresponsibly slow in moving toward AIDS in Africa, when we don't advance and live up to our own rhetoric and standards, we set a terrible message of duplicity and hypocrisy," Kerry said.

No matter that it was bubba who refused to submit it to the senate. And that dubya has already spent more on Aids in Africa than any administration in history, but plans to quadruple it. Something about liberalism just makes IQ points drop like leaves on a tree.

[Mavdog]

Mike Huckabee launches presidential bid

Conservative Republican Mike Huckabee, seeking to repeat the success of another former governor from Hope, Ark., said Sunday he is taking the first step in what he acknowledged is an underdog bid for the White House in 2008.

"I think this is an opportunity to show the American dream is still alive and there's hope and optimism that can be awakened in a lot of people's lives if they think that a person like me can run and actually become president," Huckabee told The Associated Press

The 51-year-old Huckabee, who took over as governor at the height of Bill Clinton's Whitewater scandal, comes from the same small town — Hope — in the same rural state as the former Democratic president.

Huckabee, who left office Jan. 9 after serving 10 1/2 years as governor of a Democratic-leaning state, faces steep odds in a crowded GOP field that includes well-known and well-funded hopefuls such as Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record) of Arizona, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

"One of the reasons that I'm running for president is because I think that America needs folks who understand what it is to start at the bottom of the ladder and climb their way to the top," Huckabee said in a broadcast interview. "We've got a lot of people who are born on third base and think they've hit a triple.

"America loves an underdog. America loves people who have had to struggle and for whom every rung of the ladder has been sometimes three rungs up and two back down, Thank God for the one you've gained, and keep climbing," Huckabee said.

He planned to travel to Iowa, an early nominating state, on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Huckabee is setting up an exploratory committee that will allow him to raise money and hire campaign staff in an effort to gauge his prospects.

Huckabee is a staunch opponent of abortion rights and gay marriage, but faces a tough fight from other conservatives in the field for support from the GOP's right flank. This is an important voting bloc in the nominating contests.

Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback (news, bio, voting record), a favorite son of the religious right, is already in the race. Other conservatives, such as California Rep. Duncan Hunter (news, bio, voting record) and Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo, will battle for their share of the vote.

While Arkansas is a predominantly Democratic state, Huckabee won two full terms in landslides. He championed tax increases for public schools, expanded state insurance programs for the children of the working poor and opposed banning state services for illegal immigrants.

Nationally, Huckabee is perhaps best known for his dramatic weight loss and his emphasis on healthy lifestyles. He shed 110 pounds after being diagnosed with diabetes. He also saw his political profile rise when he headed the National Governors Association for one term.

Since he left office, Huckabee has been on a nationwide tour to tout his book, "From Hope to Higher Ground: 12 Stops to Restoring America's Greatness." With chapters on taxes and foreign policy, Huckabee's book lays out his potential talking points for a presidential campaign.

Huckabee appeared on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

[Drbio]

The more qualified Repubs that throw their hat into the ring the better. Let the best candidate rise to the top.

[Mavdog]

Hunter makes it official: He's a candidate

By Finlay Lewis
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
January 25, 2007

Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter, best known for his advocacy on behalf of the military, launched a longshot bid for the presidency Thursday in this early voting state.
SPARTANBURG, S.C. – U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, hoping to become the first San Diegan to occupy the White House, became an official candidate for president Thursday morning with a forceful pledge to carry forward Ronald Reagan's policy of “peace through strength.”
Speaking at a breakfast rally in a ballroom filled with about 250 enthusiastic supporters, the Alpine Republican offered a staunchly conservative message that attacked unfair trade deals, warned about China's mounting military might and voiced support for President Bush's troop surge in Iraq. He also promised to toughen border security and pledged to appoint anti-abortion judges to the federal bench.

Hunter's announcement propels him into the 2008 race for the GOP nomination as an extreme underdog – one who registers only 1 percent in most polls.

With the campaign sorting itself into a top tier of two front runners, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Arizona Sen. John McCain, with everybody else below, Hunter clearly begins his effort clinging to the bottom rung.

Hunter made an earlier announcement of his campaign intentions in October in San Diego. He billed his appearance Thursday in South Carolina as his formal announcement. South Carolina is an early primary state with a strongly conservative, protectionist, anti-abortion, pro-military tradition.

Presenting himself as a Vietnam combat veteran and as the son of one Marine and the father of another, Hunter, 58, cited his service on the House Armed Services Committee-including a four-year stint as chairman that ended three weeks ago – as having helped to reverse the policies of the Clinton Administration, which he blamed in part for the deterioration of the armed services.

He cited a short list of winners of the Congressional Medal of Honor for valor in combat and the estimated 600,000 Americans who died in 20th Century wars and then he declared, “Our obligation is to stay strong. That's what they want us to do.”

After listing security threats now being posed by North Korea, Iran and China, Hunter said, “We have lots of problems. We're going to have to work on those. We're going to have to look over the horizon.

“But, you know something? We can do it. We can do it with a policy of peace through strength. And, ladies and gentlemen, I want to lead that policy of peace through strength.”

Afterward, Roger Milliken, 91, a wealthy textile magnate, applauded Hunter, in particular his stance against trade agreements he and others have blamed for the loss of U.S. manufacturing and its factory jobs to lower-cost rivals overseas.

“What's happened is that we've lost three million manufacturing jobs over the last six years. That's a disaster,” said Milliken, a prominent bankroller of conservative Republican causes. “Nobody is worried about how we defend our manufacturing strength and our middle class–Duncan Hunter understands that.”

Hunter also won the support of Carole Wells, 63, a Spartanburg resident who recently left a position as South Carolina's Commissioner for Employment Security.

“I believe he carried my thoughts and how I feel about the situation,” said Wells, an unsuccessful candidate for Congress two years ago. “It's very important to be strong on immigration, and I'm pro-life. That's my two defining issues.”

Hunter mentioned his support for legislation to build a border fence along San Diego County's which that he credited with halting the “smuggling of hundreds of thousands of people” and of “tons of illegal narcotics,” Hunter mocked Washington bureaucrats he said are blocking efforts to fence off an additional 700 border miles in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.

He said border security has now become a national security as well as an immigration issue and urged swifter action, saying, “Let's do it.

“We have just one message:. . . When you want to come to the United States, come knock on the front door, because the fence is gonna be up and the back door is gonna be closed.”

[dude1394]

I really like it when folks who've been executives (rudi, governors of states) run. They have the executive experience to run the guvment. Senators can't come close to that experience.

When is the last senator elected anyway?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I really like it when folks who've been executives (rudi, governors of states) run. They have the executive experience to run the guvment. Senators can't come close to that experience.

it matters tho, some governors (such as TX) don't really run the government. I'd disagree that the position of a mayor is comparable to that of pres. a senator would be much more experienced than a mayor in understanding the federal system.

When is the last senator elected anyway?

John Kennedy.