Rangers offseason thread.

[Five-ofan]

I think young is really going to have his feelings hurt by doing this. when he finds out there are no offers for him I dont think hell like that. Then again hes pretty good when he feels slighted so maybe that will work out for him and the team.


On baseball in general i absolutely cannot believe that aj burnett got 82.5 mil and sheets is scrounging around for a 3 year deal like he is.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I think young is really going to have his feelings hurt by doing this. when he finds out there are no offers for him I dont think hell like that. Then again hes pretty good when he feels slighted so maybe that will work out for him and the team.


On baseball in general i absolutely cannot believe that aj burnett got 82.5 mil and sheets is scrounging around for a 3 year deal like he is.

I think it was Mike Hindman that mentioned this on 105.3 yesterday. He said that once Spring Training starts, Michael Young will see just what Andrus can do on the field and voluntarily switch at that point. We'll see.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

As usual the FO screwed the pooch.

Instead of asking Young if for the betterment of the team, he would consider moving to 3rd to use his arm, etc. -- the FO told him they were moving him, and pissed him off. Especially after coming off his first Gold Glove at SS.

He is whining now, but I will admit that the FO should have handled it better. Then of course Nolan calls him, and says he can go back to second if he wants -- but Young didn't think that was fair to Kinsler.

So basically it is a pissing contest -- basically like they had with Soriano. Young is pissed that he wasn't asked -- not what they are asking, but how they did it.

Give me a freaking break. Of course they told him he was moving. They weren't asking and nor should they have. Why the hell would ask a player if it's ok for the manager to decide where he's going to play? If they ask him and he says no, then what? Make him move anyway? Please.

Ken Rosenthal broke the story. He spoke to Young before anyone else. I heard him interviewed live and he said, with complete certainty, that Young never once said he only said no because he wasn't asked. How childish would it be to be willing to move to third if asked, but demand a trade when told.

I can't believe people actually blame the front office for this. Mike Young is no longer a viable defensive short stop. He needs to be moved to third. It just so happens the Rangers have a giant hole at third and a young (should be) future stud at SS. Makes perfect damn sense.

Shortstops almost never continue to play shortstop into their mid thirties, and Young had poor range to begin with out there.

It absolutely infuriates me that people could somehow take Young's side on this, and Galloway and Reeves have proven they are nothing more than mouth pieces for their agenda with this issue.

BTW, there's a perfect analogy to this situation. Everyone remember when big bad Bill Parcells moved Greg Ellis to OLB?? Everyone remember the hissy fit Ellis threw? Anyone remember anything...ANYTHING being written in the local papers defending Greg Ellis? Anyone remember thinking that Greg Ellis should have been ASKED if he wanted to play OLB? Hell no.

[Murphy3]

I agree. I have always been a fan of Michael Young, but I can no way place blame on anyone other than him for this. Sure, perhaps the front office could have sugar coated it a little better or something, but the blame lies with Young. The team has the right to decide where to place players on the field. Young is an adult and not a freaking 5 year old. He needs to grow up and do what's best for the team.. not what's best for his legacy. Yeah, he won't be that good of a hitting third baseman, but that's where the team needs him to be. He needs to stop worrying about what impact it will have on his numbers and do what's best for the team. No, he might not ever make it to the All-Star Game again if he moves to third..but moving him to third will help this team to better prepare to compete for the playoffs.

Young is being selfish and showing himself to be a poor leader at best.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Give me a freaking break. Of course they told him he was moving. They weren't asking and nor should they have. Why the hell would ask a player if it's ok for the manager to decide where he's going to play? If they ask him and he says no, then what? Make him move anyway? Please.

Ken Rosenthal broke the story. He spoke to Young before anyone else. I heard him interviewed live and he said, with complete certainty, that Young never once said he only said no because he wasn't asked. How childish would it be to be willing to move to third if asked, but demand a trade when told.

I can't believe people actually blame the front office for this. Mike Young is no longer a viable defensive short stop. He needs to be moved to third. It just so happens the Rangers have a giant hole at third and a young (should be) future stud at SS. Makes perfect damn sense.

Shortstops almost never continue to play shortstop into their mid thirties, and Young had poor range to begin with out there.

It absolutely infuriates me that people could somehow take Young's side on this, and Galloway and Reeves have proven they are nothing more than mouth pieces for their agenda with this issue.

BTW, there's a perfect analogy to this situation. Everyone remember when big bad Bill Parcells moved Greg Ellis to OLB?? Everyone remember the hissy fit Ellis threw? Anyone remember anything...ANYTHING being written in the local papers defending Greg Ellis? Anyone remember thinking that Greg Ellis should have been ASKED if he wanted to play OLB? Hell no.

I can't tell you where, but I read something from Young saying that his problem was with the fact that after all he had done for this team, they
didn't have the decency to even ask him.

You can say he didn't need to be asked, but you still have a dime telling a dollar what to do.

You claim that Young is no longer a viable SS, but he won a Gold Glove there last year.

I realize that TEAM needs to come first. I realize the Young needs to move to third. I realize that Young shouldn't be throwing such a big fit about it.

I also realize that Young deserved much more respect. If the FO can't provide that to its players, then maybe he doesn't need to be here. Why respect the FO, if they can't learn to respect others. If you want to know why Texas can't sign premiere free agents -- this is just one of the reasons right here.

Now, IMO, they should have explained the situation, and asked Young to move. If he said No, then you explore other options such as moving him anyway, or trading him. That to me is common sense. You get many more fly's with honey than you do with vinegar -- and a fly swat works when needed. It was poorly handled by the FO though from everything I have read.

If you believe that the FO is like the military and can just bark orders, and everyone follow without question -- then you don't know rich millionaires, and you don't know how much problem there is getting to that point in the military.

[jthig32]

You are out of your mind. You really think the front office "barked orders" at him? Give me a break. They had a meeting over lunch. They explained to him the situation. They explained to him why it woudl be best for him to move. But they did not ask, and nor should they have. Management decides where players play, period. If it's not an option, and it wasn't, there's no reason to ask.

Just becuase they didnt' ask doesn't mean they did it in a non-respectful manner. My boss can come to me and say "we really appreciate what you've done for this company. You've been a great employee. In order for us to be better, we need to you move to this position". Did he ask? No. Was he respectful? Yes.

Young did claim, in one interview, that his problem was with them not asking, but that's pure BS. The idea that he would have said yes if there had simply been a question mark on the end, but since they didn't he's demanding a trade is laughable.

And please don't bring me the Gold Glove. Gold Gloves are a popularity contests. Palmeiro won a Gold Glove at first base for the Rangers while playing 80% of the season at DH. Young is a significantly below average defensive S, almost completely because of his horrible lack of range. With his great arm and hands he actually has a chance to be an above average defensive 3B.

"A dime telling a dollar what to do..." That is so backwards, and so not what I would expect from one of the "old school" posters on this board. The President, GM, and Manager of the Rangers are the dollars in this scenario. Mike Young is the extremely well compensated, well respected dime. He, of all people, with his team-first, good soldier reputation, should have been the last person this franchise had to worry about stroking the ego of.

[jthig32]

Quotes from Jon Daniels:

Link

Q: Talk about the decision to move Young to third.

A: This is about what's best for the team. We feel very confident that this is the brest decision for us going forward. I understand Michael's feelings and his sentiment and we want to be respectful of that through the process.

Q: Why make the move and why make it now?

A: It's about what we have in the system. As we look to lay out all of our players and try to line up all of our championship-caliber players and get them on the field at the same time, we have a premium shortstop in the minors and we don't have that same caliber at third base. We do have Michael Young, a great player who's versatile enough and talented enough and works hard enough to do either. He could be an All-Star first baseman, second baseman, third baseman and shortstop and we feel it's in the best interest of the club is for him to play third base right now.

Q: Why do you think he's reluctant?

A: I don't want to put words in his mouth. He's worked extremely hard. He moved once for the team and we respect that and appreciate that. He's worked extremely hard at his craft and has become one of the best shortstops out there. We feel he can become one of the best third baseman out there as well.

Q: What happens if you get to spring training and he doesn't want to play third?

A: I think that's a hypothetical that I don't think will come to pass, but we'll deal with it at that time. I'd rather not speculate it at this point.

Q: Did you guys ask him to move?

A: I know a lot's been made of that as far as asked versus told. I think it's a little bit of semantics, but I understand how Michael took it. He took it to heart. We feel it's the best interest of the team for him to move to third base. That's how we presented it and how we explained it and there's no doubt about it that that's what we want and feel needs to happen.

Q: Does it create animosity toward other players that it could happen to them as well? Will you address it?

A: At spring training we have team meetings and depending upon where we are it might be addressed at that time. The sentiment I've gotten from other player and agents, I don't see it being an issue beyond that.

Q: Have you talked to Michael since this came out?

A: No. I've left a message. I did speak to his agent last night. I have had some communication with him and hope to talk more in the future.

Q: You talked a few years ago about 2009 being when you wanted to contend, how do you expect fans not to view this as pushing that back two or three years?

A: I was talking to one of our players today about this. We're certainly not discounting our ability to win this year. Depending on what other clubs do, that's a possibility. I feel confident that the way we line up with young players and some of the flexibility going into next season with a lot of free agents at the end of 2009 that we can certainly compete in 2009, but even more so the year after and the flexibility and our younger players that much closer.

Q: What's the fall back if Andrus isn't ready?

A: I don't think that's going to happen. Our evaluation is that we think Elvis is ready to compete and help us win at the big league level. As was explained to Elvis, I talked to him the other night, I told him, 'Hey, all we're presenting with you is an opportunity. The rest is up to you.' He's excited about it and he wants to get in the mix with the guys. I'm not going to speculate on if he'll fail because we don't think he's going to.

Q: Where are you on trade possibilities?

A: Unless you hear otherwise from us, there won't be a trade and Michael Young will be a Ranger going forward. We're not working toward [a trade] at all. Our goal is moving forward with Michael as a part of this club.

Q: What about some of the criticism that Michael has had on the web, like with Buster Olney's blog, where it looks like he's losing the PR battle?

A: I think that's unfortunate. I think the guy is allowed to have his reaction to something like this. Anybody who's been around Michael knows he's a tremendous person, a big member of the community. I do think that's unfortunate and that's certainly not coming from us and won't. I've talked to our sales group and our guys and you won't hear a negative word about Michael Young from the Rangers. He's a big part of what we're doing and will be going forward.

That is a man that is being respectful but sticking to his guns. Bravo JD, bravo.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You are out of your mind. You really think the front office "barked orders" at him? Give me a break. They had a meeting over lunch. They explained to him the situation. They explained to him why it woudl be best for him to move. But they did not ask, and nor should they have. Management decides where players play, period. If it's not an option, and it wasn't, there's no reason to ask.

Just becuase they didnt' ask doesn't mean they did it in a non-respectful manner. My boss can come to me and say "we really appreciate what you've done for this company. You've been a great employee. In order for us to be better, we need to you move to this position". Did he ask? No. Was he respectful? Yes.

Young did claim, in one interview, that his problem was with them not asking, but that's pure BS. The idea that he would have said yes if there had simply been a question mark on the end, but since they didn't he's demanding a trade is laughable.

And please don't bring me the Gold Glove. Gold Gloves are a popularity contests. Palmeiro won a Gold Glove at first base for the Rangers while playing 80% of the season at DH. Young is a significantly below average defensive S, almost completely because of his horrible lack of range. With his great arm and hands he actually has a chance to be an above average defensive 3B.

"A dime telling a dollar what to do..." That is so backwards, and so not what I would expect from one of the "old school" posters on this board. The President, GM, and Manager of the Rangers are the dollars in this scenario. Mike Young is the extremely well compensated, well respected dime. He, of all people, with his team-first, good soldier reputation, should have been the last person this franchise had to worry about stroking the ego of.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jthig32 again....


Excellent post.

It isn't what I read, which is why I wrote what I did, but if true I agree.

Also, excellent job of sticking to your guns, and stating your case without getting childish and ignorant like many posters do. Nice job.

You have definitely made me rethink the whole Young scenario.

Unfortunately we both agree that he should move to third, we both agree that it was unfortunate, and we both agree that the new stud SS should be playing SS in the majors.

From what I read I disagree with how it was presented, but you are correct that in the end -- Young needs to shut up, and become an all-star 3rd baseman. I do not believe that the Rangers trade him either way - at least I hope not.

Good job jthig, good job.

[jthig32]

Eric Hurly....rotator cuff surgery...done for '09.

F

Triple F.

And just for those that aren't familiar with this kind of injury...done for '09 is....generous. In all likelihood his chances of beign a long term MLB pitcher are over. Pitchers just aren't the same after rotator cuff surgery.

Son of a ____!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Murphy3]

Some come back and pitch well. I think the name Jimmy Key was thrown out there.. a few others. But, damn, I seriously hate this news. It was a severe kick in the nutes yesterday when I got the email from Jamey Newberg.

[Five-ofan]

the hurley news sucks He was still a personal favorite of mine. This shows why you dont worry about having too many pitchers and not enough innings though.


also, if ben sheets really asked for a 2 year 18 million dollar deal plus incentives from the mets i dont see why we havent signed him. I understand that because he would take it from the mets doesnt mean hed take it from the rangers but still. Hes a better pitcher and has a better injury record than aj burnett who just got 82.5 mil. I know hes an injury risk but he has pitched 198 + innings 4 times in his career and for 9 mil a year hes a HUGE reward low risk guy. I mean we waste 4 to 5 mil a year on crap shot hitters anyway.

[jthig32]

If you can't get Ben Sheets, who lives here and swears by our new pitching coach, to sign here in this depressed market, then you are never, ever going to sign any decent pitcher again without destroying any other contract offer.

It's depressing.

[Five-ofan]

vizquel is officially a ranger nri btw.

also not rangers but kent announced his retirement today. Great great player. Should be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

[wesbrynt]

I just don't see jeff kent as a first ballot hall of famer. In fact I don't see him as a HOF player ever

[Murphy3]

I've never thought of him as a Hall of Famer. I suppose you can make a case for the guy. Honestly, I would have to go back and review his stats and compare it to some of the all time greats at the position. Obviously, he has the edge in HR's, but that stat won't carry as much weight for him as it would have 10 years ago.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

I've never thought of him as a Hall of Famer. I suppose you can make a case for the guy. Honestly, I would have to go back and review his stats and compare it to some of the all time greats at the position. Obviously, he has the edge in HR's, but that stat won't carry as much weight for him as it would have 10 years ago.

He was an average defense secondbasemen for the majority of his career. Kent compares VERY favorably with ryne sandberg who got in, kent hit 290/356/500 to sandbergs 285/344/452. Kent also had 377 hr to sandbergs 282.

kent leads ALL second basemen(with at least 1300 games) in hr, rbi, xbh, slg, is second in 2bs and ops, 3rd in tbs, 7th in runs and is 7th in ops+ which factors in that his era was easier to hit in than alot of others. Hes not the best second basemen ever(either morgan or hornsby) but hes definitely a hofer.

[Murphy3]

I don't think there's any 'definitely' about it. He's a borderline HOFer at best. Sandberg and Kent's careers weren't separated by that much, but it was still a different era. I think there's a big difference in the way hitters are viewed pre strike to post strike. The offensive numbers just don't mean as much over the past 15 years in my opinion.

Regardless of what the stats say, I don't think many voters will view Kent favorably compared to Sandberg.

[jthig32]

I think Kent is borderline. "Average" defensively is generous. He was also rarely, if ever, the best at his position although that is a tough standard when you play in the same era as Roberto Alomar.

[Murphy3]

I completely believe that he's much closer to borderline than being a sure thing... I wouldn't be shocked if he eventually gets in, but there's lots of guys that have put up the numbers but aren't in the hall of fame.. One of my favorites of all time.. Ted Simmons. He put up great offensive numbers at catcher..one of the best ever at his position. He's not in the hall.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think Kent is borderline. "Average" defensively is generous. He was also rarely, if ever, the best at his position although that is a tough standard when you play in the same era as Roberto Alomar.

actually until about 5 years ago he was an above average defensive second basemen by every defensive metric we have(not all inclusive but oh well) and hes one of the best second basemen ever at turning the dp. Not being the best player at your position very rarely doesnt mean your not a hofer. By that logic no first basemen or second basemen but pujols and chase utley would ever have a shot at the hall.

murphy its very possible voters will think sandberg was better. if so, they will be wrong. I just think the career hr record for 2b will get him in.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

actually until about 5 years ago he was an above average defensive second basemen by every defensive metric we have(not all inclusive but oh well) and hes one of the best second basemen ever at turning the dp. Not being the best player at your position very rarely doesnt mean your not a hofer. By that logic no first basemen or second basemen but pujols and chase utley would ever have a shot at the hall.

murphy its very possible voters will think sandberg was better. if so, they will be wrong. I just think the career hr record for 2b will get him in.

The defensive metrics they had during Kent's prime were relatively worthless. You can't seriously push the notion that Jeff Kent was ever above average defensively. He was average at best during his peak years, and the last few years he played the position he was abjectly horrible defensively.

Despite that, he's still probably a hall of famer, but he's not a slam dunk.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The defensive metrics they had during Kent's prime were relatively worthless. You can't seriously push the notion that Jeff Kent was ever above average defensively. He was average at best during his peak years, and the last few years he played the position he was abjectly horrible defensively.

Despite that, he's still probably a hall of famer, but he's not a slam dunk.

i mean retroactively applying defensive metrics like pmr and such that are from now. You are correct that using metrics from then would be worthless.

[mkat]

they sign Sheets yet?

[tcat075]

If anybody is interested at all in the Rangers Spring training, the DMN Ranger's blog is very comprehensive as of late. Their decision to let fans send in blogs for the bloggers to publish (fan blogs) was genius. The fans don't worry about opinions, or writing columns focusing on personal life, or writing about other people; they just focus on the Rangers and what they've seen from them.

http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/

The most concerning news so far? Davis is hitting in the low .200's with close to 30 at bats or so. Cruz is hitting only slightly better, although his slugging % is much higher. We're going to need big years from those two to make up for the loss of Bradley.