Ryan Moats / Dallas Police Department

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

In my very limited experience, I find that if I am overly respectful, overly quiet and overly cooperative, an officer will treat me with the bare minimum amount of respect I deserve.

These are not the droids you're looking for...

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I hear what you're saying LHD and I'm not dismissing it, but I think there is another aspect consider.

I think some of what we see in this sort of treatment is a kind of 'Stanford Prison Experiment' playing out in a much bigger setting. The 'prisoners' in this case being more marginalized elements of society for whatever reason(s)--reasons which may include race but are not necessarily dependent upon racist attitudes of the prison guards.

I think that's a very interesting point, and you may well be right, but I don't think that really conflicts with what I said, necessarily.

[chumdawg]

I think we all know it's about race. We may not be able to prove it...but we know.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I got stopped by a Plano cop not far from there last month. I wish I'd kept the ticket to see if this was the same guy. The cop that stopped me made me wait 10 or 15 minutes for back up so he could search my car. All because he saw me reach into the glove box to get my insurance after his lights came on. Like Officer Powell he never raised his voice but I definitely got the impression that there was some kind of power trip.

I work for the navarro county sheriffs dept. If you are ever in that situation refuse the search. Or did he argue he had PC? If so thats probably actionable because thats not pc.

I understand why people feel this way about cops, Ill be perfectly honest i know some cops here who are utterly worthless human beings and some who have arrested people for stuff they have no business being arrested for. That said there are quite a few cops who really are good people and who really do a good job doing what they are supposed to do.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I think we all know it's about race. We may not be able to prove it...but we know.

Except for the folks who completely deny that race played a part, to whom my post was addressed.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I work for the navarro county sheriffs dept. If you are ever in that situation refuse the search. Or did he argue he had PC? If so thats probably actionable because thats not pc.

I understand why people feel this way about cops, Ill be perfectly honest i know some cops here who are utterly worthless human beings and some who have arrested people for stuff they have no business being arrested for. That said there are quite a few cops who really are good people and who really do a good job doing what they are supposed to do.

I have a friend who has done this successfuly twice. The cop asked him to step out so he could search his vehicle and he stepped out of the car, locked the door, and said, "you aren't searching anything." It didn't speed anything up though. Both times the cop argued with him for over 15-30 minutes trying to convince him to let him search the vehicle (he had weed btw).

Anyway. I think we can add not only race to the equation but also the fact that it was a black man with a nice car, and better than what the officer himself might be able to afford.

[92bDad]

I wish that racist would stop saying that this is about race.

Then again, perhaps the racist attitude is from those who hate the "Blue"

Personally, I'm tired of hearing the race card...it's not the cause of all evil, but those that fuel the fire are doing a ton of damage to racial harmony and it is rather offensive!!!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I wish that racist would stop saying that this is about race.

Then again, perhaps the racist attitude is from those who hate the "Blue"

Personally, I'm tired of hearing the race card...it's not the cause of all evil, but those that fuel the fire are doing a ton of damage to racial harmony and it is rather offensive!!!

Very compelling. Consider me convinced. Race played no part.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I wish that racist would stop saying that this is about race.

Then again, perhaps the racist attitude is from those who hate the "Blue"

Personally, I'm tired of hearing the race card...it's not the cause of all evil, but those that fuel the fire are doing a ton of damage to racial harmony and it is rather offensive!!!

id bet ive been around the most cops of anyone that posts here unless theres another cop that posts here(actually the 5-0 fan in my name was my attempt at a nickname for the big 3 and antwins and not anything about being a cop but since i grew up and became one it works out)
The sad fact is race does play a factor. Im not saying it does here but before i started working for the SO here i thought that most cops/racism correlations were bs. They arent. Theres a balancing act that goes on, you have to stay safe but you cant abuse your privileges either. Weve had 2 instances of people being fired over just that(one turned off his dash cam during an altercation, the other got drunk and pulled a shot gun on someone while showing his badge when he was off duty) Also as much as it shouldnt be this way, there is a natural flood of adrenaline in any tense situation so you have to balance that with your brain and keep yourself from doing something stupid. Ala pulling a gun on an unarmed civilian that has made no threat and broken no law.

[FreshJive]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

I wish that racist would stop saying that this is about race.

Then again, perhaps the racist attitude is from those who hate the "Blue"

Personally, I'm tired of hearing the race card...it's not the cause of all evil, but those that fuel the fire are doing a ton of damage to racial harmony and it is rather offensive!!!

You are doing just as much damage as those crying wolf when you won't admit racism when it is obviously happening. 92bDad will alwyas think the race card is being played and Jessie Jackson will always play it. Neither side helps.

[alexamenos]

I'm certainly not saying that race wasn't a factor in the Moats mugging....I'm just saying that it's not always a necessary ingredient...as in this case->

vid

...unless of course the unidentified deputy in the Able's case was a black dude, which I suppose is possible.

anyhoo.....a certain percentage of the population loves to boss other people around for the sake of bossing people around....it's an ego trip kinda thing. Give'em a gun and a badge and they're bound to abuse it from time to time. Mix in some pre-disposed reason (ie, race) for the thug to dislike their target and you've got a really ugly mix.

that said...duh, racism on some level was in all likelihood a factor in the Moats mugging.

[Mavdog]

reading the transcript of what the police officer said and what moats responded, it is not clear that the police officer was acting out of racism.

it is clear that the policeman was acting out of power intoxication, a severe case of the stupids, and complete indifference to the moat's situation.

the apology issue by powell is a step in his recovery from these maladies, which if not changed should preclude him from continuing as a policeman:

"I wish to publicly and sincerely apologize to the Moats family, my colleagues in the Dallas Police Department, and to all those who have been rightfully angered by my actions on March 18, 2009. After stopping Mr. Moats' vehicle, I showed poor judgment and insensitivity to Mr. Moats and his family by my words and actions. With great remorse I accept my responsibility for adding to their grief in an already difficult time.

"I have attempted to reach Mr. Moats to express my personal condolences directly to his family and my regret about my actions. While these efforts have been unsuccessful so far, I hope we can talk soon.


"Again, I am very sorry for what I did and ask for the forgiveness of all those touched by these unfortunate events."

a current of racism exists in many agents of law enforcement in our country. to complain "the racist attitude is from those who hate the "Blue"" ignores that reality. the phrase "driving while black" is not the figment of one's imagination. it is real.

[CadBane]

You know he doesn't mean that apology, not even for one second. The fact that he didn't recant on his actions immediately tells you all one needs to know.

[Underdog]

Zach Thomas: Same Dallas officer mistreated my wife

link

Maritza Thomas, the wife of NFL linebacker Zach Thomas, saw a familiar face as she watched the video of Officer Robert Powell detaining Houston Texans running back Ryan Moats as he and his family rushed to a hospital to see a dying loved one. That face was Powell's.

On July 27, 2008, while her husband was at training camp with the Cowboys in Oxnard, Calif., Maritza Thomas was pulled over by Powell for an illegal U-turn near NorthPark Center.

Maritza Thomas was issued five tickets by Powell, four of which were later dismissed. Thomas was handcuffed, placed in the back of a police cruiser, spent about three hours in the Dallas County Jail and was threatened with the possibility of spending the night behind bars.

"This in no way compares to what happened to Ryan Moats and his family," said Zach Thomas, who played for the Cowboys last season and is now a free agent. "But we wanted to tell our story, not knowing how many others have been affected by Officer Powell. We know the vast majority of the Dallas police force are good and professional people, but this guy just seems excessive."

The charges that were dropped were failure to show proof of insurance, running a red light, having an improper address on a driver's license and not having a registration sticker on the windshield. She accepted deferred adjudication for the illegal U-turn charge, and her record will be cleared next month.

In total, Maritza Thomas, who is Hispanic, was detained roughly five hours.

"This situation never should've happened," said Maritza Thomas' attorney, Brody Shanklin. "Unless extraordinary circumstances exist, no person should be arrested for a Class C citation. In this case, it was an example of Officer Powell being overzealous and exerting his authority in a manner that he never should have."

Bob Gorsky, Powell's attorney, questioned the timing of Thomas' allegations, saying she had not complained about her arrest until the Moats incident became public.

"After her arrest, she may have mentioned that her husband was a football player, but that played no role in her arrest or the disposition of the case," Gorsky said.

"I do understand that an arrest on multiple traffic charges happens often and is absolutely proper under these circumstances," Gorsky said. "Often, when there are multiple charges, an arrest made and bond posted, some of the charges from a single event are later dropped."

According to Maritza Thomas, a pharmacist with no prior criminal record, Powell would not accept the explanation of where the proper paperwork was before she was taken to jail. Her mother, Teresa Lozano, who was making her first trip to Dallas and speaks little English, was forced to ride with the tow truck driver when the car was impounded. She later posted bail for her daughter's release.

"My mom was begging for him to let her go to the apartment that was five minutes away to get the paperwork," Maritza Thomas said. "He unbuckled his holster, and she got scared."

The Thomases said Powell was dismissive, but they did not allege that he used abusive language. There is no dash-cam video available of the incident, but the police report lists the five citations and confirms that Thomas was taken to jail.

Judge C. Victor Lander, the city of Dallas' chief municipal judge, said under Texas law a person can be arrested for any Class C misdemeanor citation except speeding and having an open container.

When an officer gives someone a traffic citation, it is in lieu of arrest, Lander said. The officer does have the option of making an arrest, he said.

"It really is giving the individual a break by issuing them a ticket. But it's a break most people get," Lander said.

He called it "relatively rare" for an officer to arrest someone on the spot. That's because it's time consuming to take someone to jail and fill out the paperwork, he said. Usually, an arrest occurs if the person has a warrant for unpaid traffic tickets, Lander said.

When an officer does decide to make an arrest for a minor traffic offense, it's usually because of how the person behaved during the traffic stop, Lander said.

"The defense bar refers to it as contempt of cop," Lander said. "If the officer was offended by something the person said or did, they may arrest them."

Dallas police say it is not unusual for an officer to arrest someone who is issued three or more citations during one traffic stop.

“If there are so many violations that it could be viewed that it’s an egregious situation, that person can be arrested,” said Assistant Chief Floyd Simpson, who oversees the department’s seven patrol divisions.

Simpson said he did not know the details of Powell’s encounter with Maritza Thomas.

Based on the five citations she received, Simpson said, an arrest would not be required, but it also generally would not be inappropriate.

“It’s a judgment thing on the cops at that moment,” Simpson said. “The core of what we do is just discretion, and it needs to be that way.”

According to the Dallas police Web site, complaints against an officer must be made within 60 days of an incident, except in special cases, including criminal misconduct or when good cause can be shown by the person making the complaint.

At the time of the incident, the Thomases considered filing a complaint against Powell but declined, "because we didn't want to cause a stir," said her husband, Zach Thomas, believing it "was maybe a guy having a bad day." However, they plan to file one now.

Sr. Cpl. Kevin Janse, a Dallas police spokesman, declined to comment on Thomas' allegation.

However, he said police would investigate all complaints submitted to the department about Powell.

"If she feels Officer Powell did something wrong, we'll investigate it," Janse said. "We are not going to go back and track everything this officer has done," he said. "If people come to us with concerns, we'll look into it."

The department is investigating Powell's actions on the night of the Moats traffic stop, as well as any other questionable encounters involving the officer, Janse said.

Maritza Thomas said, "I hope that by telling my story that it will help prevent situations like this from happening in the future."

Powell issued an apology Friday for his actions in which Moats and his mother-in-law's father were unable to see Jonetta Collinsworth before she died of breast cancer this month. Powell has been put on paid leave.

With the grim news of Collinsworth's health, Moats, his wife, Tamishia, and her grandfather rushed to Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano, rolling through a red light that prompted Powell to turn on his lights.

Outside the emergency room, Powell detained Moats for 13 minutes, and Collinsworth died before everybody could say goodbye.

[jthig32]

I can tell you that I've gotten four citations in one stop before and the officer didn't even seem overly upset or surprised, much less ever mention going to jail.

In college I got nailed for speeding, expired registration, expired inspection and no proof of insurance. I got the latter three dismissed by getting the registration and inspection and showing I did in fact have insurance.

I would say the Thomas incident by itself isn't much, but combined with the Moats thing it certainly does add fuel to the fire, especially with her being a minority.

[MX425]

As I stated earlier, I don't believe all Police are corrupt and I don't think a mob mentality towards Police is a healthy thing for our society. However, Police are public servents who are paid from our Taxs and are hired to serve the community. If we as a public don't stand up for our rights and demand more from this position we are going down a road that will not will not be good for our future as a country. I have a limited window of experience in seeing how police community relations have been through recent American history, and maybe it is simply these events are gaining more media coverage then before, but I cna't help but feel like every year we are inching closer to becoming a police state. We as citizens have rights and hearing stores about them being stripped or the tatics police use to get around these rights simply sicken me.

I come from a family of public sevents (my dad has been a fire fighter paramedic my whole life, my brother is a firefighter and my uncle is a highway patrol officer) and I graduated witha degree in Political Science and had enough clacces on criminal justice tought by a police chief to hear of a lot of these "tactics" used be police. If we as a community accept this action and write it off as one bad apple we are allowing ourselves to become subject to these types of incidents.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by MX425

As I stated earlier, I don't believe all Police are corrupt and I don't think a mob mentality towards Police is a healthy thing for our society. However, Police are public servents who are paid from our Taxs and are hired to serve the community. If we as a public don't stand up for our rights and demand more from this position we are going down a road that will not will not be good for our future as a country. I have a limited window of experience in seeing how police community relations have been through recent American history, and maybe it is simply these events are gaining more media coverage then before, but I cna't help but feel like every year we are inching closer to becoming a police state. We as citizens have rights and hearing stores about them being stripped or the tatics police use to get around these rights simply sicken me.

I come from a family of public sevents (my dad has been a fire fighter paramedic my whole life, my brother is a firefighter and my uncle is a highway patrol officer) and I graduated witha degree in Political Science and had enough clacces on criminal justice tought by a police chief to hear of a lot of these "tactics" used be police. If we as a community accept this action and write it off as one bad apple we are allowing ourselves to become subject to these types of incidents.

Agreed, about all you wrote. The fact of the matter is, "you only have the rights that someone is willing to defend" though. Is Rape (let's say Darfur, Bosnia, etc), Murder (let's say a Jew or Christian or Muslim or Black or American Indian, etc) or theft (let's say the American Indian) legal (in the United States or around the world) --- Only if you have the people stand up to defend this with their lives.

The more you count on the military or police, etc to do the defending, and allow a group like Government to control it, the more power you are giving them -- and reducing your own. This is why you should want more local control and less governmental control ie. smaller government. If you pick one item and allow government to control, then it spreads, and then the thoughts of a few take over for the will of the people. It has happened over and over again throughout history.

Police are good, until they aren't for the people, but for themselves. Government is good until they aren't for the people, but for themselves.
The military is good until they aren't for the people, but for themselves.

This pretty well goes for all in this world.

PS: why in the world would anyone ever think you could get cream of the crop to be police officers? I mean they are paid poorly, asked to put their lives on the line daily, and scrutinized with everything they do. They are asked to be in control of every situation and make the right decision on life and death -- but still be patient and nice to everyone including people who are cussing, trying to hurt you, and often substance controlled. So in order to do this, cops are given power -- but many think that no cop is going to abuse that power........or make the wrong decision. That is next to impossible with the cream of the crop, and truly impossible with the average masses of officers needed today.

[Underdog]

The big problem here is blowback - how long is it going to be until someone gets pulled over, invokes the name of Ryan Moats and shoots a cop?

The DPD better make an example of this clown as quickly as possible to get this story out of the headlines before tensions start to escalate between the People and the Law (we certainly don't want to become another Cincinnati/Cleveland/Akron...)

[Murphy3]

I have probably been pulled over 20 times or so in my life. Fortunately, I've never had to deal with an idiot such as this. I've never had a bad encounter with an officer. I got a MIP a couple of weeks before my 21st birthday. A few friends were driving around with a little alcohol in the car.. Well, a friend had to take a leak before we went to the club.. Unfortunately, an officer saw him.. and then came over to our car and decided to do a little search. At first, they couldn't stop laughing because my friend just happened to take an illegal piss in the alley right behind a gay bar... We should have known.....

Anyways, after they gave us the ticket, an officer pulled a couple of us over and told us how to get out of it.. Sure enough, it worked for the two of us...

[92bDad]

To clear a point... Does Racism exist? YES

However, one may want to dig deep and ensure that a case of Racism exist before pulling this card out. The many cases that have NOTHING to do with Racism, hurt the ones that have genuine merit.

By the way, Racism exist when ANY individual is treated with negative respect as a result of their skin tone. This includes Blacks, Whites, Yellow, Red...any color of skin that a person was born with, period.

When that happens, it is a Single Event action...just because one person makes a racist statement or takes a racist action, does not mean that everyone they are compared to is racist.

Think about it, if someone begins to act as if all Police Officers are racist because of the actions of One Officer Powell, then do they not find themselves being racist against the Police?

It's no different than my own guilt of grouping all Democrats together or others grouping all Republicans together...being racist towards a "Group" is simply that...Racism.

Perhaps we can back up a second and deal with issues and people on a case by case basis.

Bottom line, Office Powell made a serious misjudgement...lets take this for the incident rather than White Officer/Black Citizen.

[MX425]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

To clear a point... Does Racism exist? YES

However, one may want to dig deep and ensure that a case of Racism exist before pulling this card out. The many cases that have NOTHING to do with Racism, hurt the ones that have genuine merit.

By the way, Racism exist when ANY individual is treated with negative respect as a result of their skin tone. This includes Blacks, Whites, Yellow, Red...any color of skin that a person was born with, period.

When that happens, it is a Single Event action...just because one person makes a racist statement or takes a racist action, does not mean that everyone they are compared to is racist.

Think about it, if someone begins to act as if all Police Officers are racist because of the actions of One Officer Powell, then do they not find themselves being racist against the Police?

It's no different than my own guilt of grouping all Democrats together or others grouping all Republicans together...being racist towards a "Group" is simply that...Racism.

Perhaps we can back up a second and deal with issues and people on a case by case basis.

Bottom line, Office Powell made a serious misjudgement...lets take this for the incident rather than White Officer/Black Citizen.

Don't you mean Prejudice. Racism is only involving the race of somebody. I do see your point though.

[rabbitproof]

What makes you so sure this ISN'T about racism?

[Flacolaco]

I think I'm going to find 4 random Silk Smoov posts and then paste them into this thread every so often.

They should fit pretty seamlessly.

[rabbitproof]

Yeah, this is pretty predictable.

[FreshJive]

Silly little dude.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

if someone begins to act as if all Police Officers are racist because of the actions of One Officer Powell, then do they not find themselves being racist against the Police?

When did the Police become a race?

(or are all cops white in your version of reality?)




Also - why are you so quick to defend Powell's possible racial motivations? Do you know him personally or are you just an apologist for any evil deed the "establishment" makes that might draw the ire of "left-thinking" citizens?

So far two cases of of abuse have been publicly associated with Officer Powell and both of them concerned racial minorities... The evidence is starting to stack up, yet here you are defending someone you don't even know just because "the lefties love to play the race card" (...as if someone is trying to GET something out of all this!)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

When did the Police become a race?

(or are all cops white in your version of reality?)




Also - why are you so quick to defend Powell's possible racial motivations? Do you know him personally or are you just an apologist for any evil deed the "establishment" makes that might draw the ire of "left-thinking" citizens? So far two cases of of abuse have been associated with Officer Powell and both of them concerned racial minorities - the evidence is starting to stack up, yet here you are defending someone you don't even know just because the "lefties" LOOOOVE to play the race card...

Semantics...Racism/Prejudism is the same thing. If someone treats a "Group" with hatred, it is an 'ism'

If a white guy molests a kid, are all whites child molesters?
If a black guy robs a band, are all black guys bank robbers?
If a cop mistreats a citizen, are all cops Power junkies?
If a Democrat apposes the war after he supported the war, are all democrats waffle minded individuals?
If a Republican supports less taxes, are all Republicans geniuses?

As far as I'm concerned, a Police Office, much like a Military soldier is now part of something bigger...In the military we are not white, black, yellow, red...but rather we are all Green...we are soldiers, period.

As a citizen, I see the police in this same light...they are all "Blue".

Now I am NOT and have NOT defended the actions of Officer Powell, but rather I do stand for keeping the Image of the Police in a positive light.

The police are not to blame for this, but rather the actions of one single individual.

By the way, kudos to Ryan Moats and his handling of the situation...I hope that my sons can see Ryan Moats as a positive role model when it comes to dealing with a very difficult situation while being confronted by a person in a position of authority.

He handled this better than many fans reacting to the story...I'm just sayin

[Big Boy Laroux]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

are all whites child molesters?

Yes.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Semantics...Racism/Prejudism is the same thing. If someone treats a "Group" with hatred, it is an 'ism'

Actually, it's not "semantics," it's "language" - words don't mean whatever YOU want them to...

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Now I am NOT and have NOT defended the actions of Officer Powell, but rather I do stand for keeping the Image of the Police in a positive light.

The police deserve whatever image they create for themselves - don't blame the citizens for the corrupt actions of those charged to protect us...

If cops want to be liked, they should stop abusing their powers with alarming regularity (because this kind of thing happens WAAAAAAAY more often than reported - we just never hear about it because it usually doesn't happen to celebrities...)

Originally Posted by 92bDad

The police are not to blame for this, but rather the actions of one single individual.

Who blamed the cops as a whole? (certainly not Mr. Moats...)

You're defending an issue that was never raised in the first place...





Let's call your post what it is: another right-wing talking point rather than a response to the actual story at hand...

[Flacolaco]

I think people were suggesting this only of the officer in question, and 92bdad is defending ALL police officers in general.

I don't think you guys are all participating in the same argument.

edit: Sorry ud...yes, what you said.

[92bDad]

UD,

You are a bit off base...this has NOTHING to do with politics...but hey, you have a right to pigeon whole things into whatever you want.

I suppose that if people obeyed the law, we would not need the police...hmmmm now there's a concept.

To think, that people who are NOT police officers, over stepped boundaries and abuse the law...so who's more abusive, criminals or the police?

There's nothing political there...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

UD,

You are a bit off base...this has NOTHING to do with politics...but hey, you have a right to pigeon whole things into whatever you want.

I suppose that if people obeyed the law, we would not need the police...hmmmm now there's a concept.

To think, that people who are NOT police officers, over stepped boundaries and abuse the law...so who's more abusive, criminals or the police?

There's nothing political there...

What the hell does this post have to do with anything in this thread???

If you're not trying to inject your political ideology into this conversation then what the hell are you talking about?


Nobody claimed that police officers as a whole were responsible...

Nobody said we'd be better off without Law...

Nobody compared police motivations to criminal motivations...

Nobody is having the conversation you're having except YOU...

[92bDad]

^^ What are you talking about? ^^

[MX425]

This officer failed in the use of judgement. Whether or not this failure was a result of a pre-conceived notion regarding this gentleman's character or intentions due to his race is not the issue and not germaine to the discussion regarding the issue of "power hungry" police.

While the fact that Motes is black and the officer is white opens the door for this to be a factor in officer Powell's handling of the situation, it fails to address the issue that I believe to be the crux of this situation; ability of Police officers to walk the line between protecting the community while perserving the rights of all citizens.

It seems to me that everyone on this page is in agreement that Powell's behavior was out of line and he should be reprimanded. While I am in total agreement that Officer Powell's actions are not indicitive of all police officers, I am not as foolish as to simply label this as a race issue and chalk it up to a "bad apple." I can't help but sense a growing "us" versus "them" atttitude regarding Police and this is unhealthy for our society. Nobody wants to see the public strike back after an incident like this, or the San Fran shooting that lead to roits a few months back.

A badge and a gun doesn't make you right. Not trying to politicize this but when our govenrment conviences us that it is ok to give up liberties for safety, we are making our own bed. I have said it before, we are allowing our country to become a police state where we are forced to feel guilty until proven innocent and this is not what this country was built upon.

Ben Franklin "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

[alexamenos]

if one black guy really likes fried chicken and watermelon does that mean all black people like fried chicken and watermelon or does that mean fried chicken and watermelon make a darn good and way too under-rated food combination which anybody with tastebuds can really enjoy?

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

To clear a point... Does Racism exist? YES

However, one may want to dig deep and ensure that a case of Racism exist before pulling this card out.

Good luck ever "ensuring" that racism played a part in any occurrence. Unless you get the perpetrator to admit that they were being racist, you'll never be able to conclusively establish anything. We can't ever truly accurately gauge a person's motivations--we have to use common sense.

Originally Posted by 92bDad

The many cases that have NOTHING to do with Racism, hurt the ones that have genuine merit.

...

Perhaps we can back up a second and deal with issues and people on a case by case basis.

I don't understand why you're saying this. Precisely what I'm saying is that this specific case--well, two cases, if you include the Zach Thomas thing--entailed a racial element. I'm not generalizing anything. I'm saying this particular cop clearly let race affect his judgment in two instances. Nobody is saying the guy is always a racist, or that all cops are racist, or that white people hate black people.

[92bDad]

In every situation their is a racial element...this does not mean that every situation their is a racist element.

HUGE Difference.

As a white guy, I've been ticketed by a black guy...does that make him racist? I doubt it seriously!!!

I've also been warned by a black guy...as I have also been ticketed and warned by white guys...white and black females as well.

The victim mentality within our society is doing more damage to racial relations than anything else. When someone else is wronged, we see a group coming together and acting as victims.

On this issue today, I have read a story where the Moats family has accepted the apology from Officer Powell and the Police Department...If Ryan Moats can accept this and move on, perhaps its time that we continue to support Ryan Moats by moving on as well?

Let's give the same love to the Police Department and other police officers as we are giving to Ryan Moats. Anybody else in agreement?

[mary]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Good luck ever "ensuring" that racism played a part in any occurrence. Unless you get the perpetrator to admit that they were being racist, you'll never be able to conclusively establish anything. We can't ever truly accurately gauge a person's motivations--we have to use common sense.



I don't understand why you're saying this. Precisely what I'm saying is that this specific case--well, two cases, if you include the Zach Thomas thing--entailed a racial element. I'm not generalizing anything. I'm saying this particular cop clearly let race affect his judgment in two instances. Nobody is saying the guy is always a racist, or that all cops are racist, or that white people hate black people.

I don't think he understood your post.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by 92bDad

In every situation their is a racial element...this does not mean that every situation their is a racist element.

HUGE Difference.

As a white guy, I've been ticketed by a black guy...does that make him racist? I doubt it seriously!!!

I've also been warned by a black guy...as I have also been ticketed and warned by white guys...white and black females as well.

The victim mentality within our society is doing more damage to racial relations than anything else. When someone else is wronged, we see a group coming together and acting as victims.

On this issue today, I have read a story where the Moats family has accepted the apology from Officer Powell and the Police Department...If Ryan Moats can accept this and move on, perhaps its time that we continue to support Ryan Moats by moving on as well?

Let's give the same love to the Police Department and other police officers as we are giving to Ryan Moats. Anybody else in agreement?

You f*cking kill me...

"Why don't we all move on and stop talking about race"????

You do realize that NOBODY was talking about race in this thread until YOU brought it up in post #25 (go back and read it - it's all there...)

Actually, you put yourself at the center of the "race discussion" from the very beginning - every single post that mentions race is either one of YOUR posts or a response to something YOU WROTE, so stop pretending like everyone else is making this issue about race when YOU'RE the only one trying to inject that idea into the conversation...

You wanna move on? Stop talking about it...

[u2sarajevo]

Hey if this problem needed a tool to fix it then this thread has provided one.