Good Charlotte?, for Jamison it would be - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

aexchange · 03-10-2004, 01:11 PM

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com

Antawn Jamison planned to build a big new house in his new city, then scrapped the plans.

It felt more right, he later explained, to plant those roots in his actual hometown.

"I'm going to build a house in Charlotte," Jamison said at the time, "because I know I'm going back there eventually."

Eventually?

Eventually, he might not just be going back to Charlotte for summers.

Jamison made the decision not to get too cozy in Dallas because his name started popping up in trade rumors about five minutes into his first season with the Mavericks. As most of the free world knows, Dallas was prepared to deal Jamison to Portland as the feature piece in a trade for Rasheed Wallace ... and 'Sheed's instantaneous defensive impact with Detroit should pretty much confirm why.

He's making Ben Wallace better, so it's no stretch to suggest that 'Sheed's presence in Dallas would have led to a noticeable improvement from a team that could stand to improve a tad defensively.

Onto the next trade scenario, then.

The next one in play for the North Carolina-ex could well involve the expansion Bobcats. Bernie Bickerstaff has made it clear that he isn't interested in absorbing veterans with long-term contracts in the expansion draft, but this potential swap is tied to the regular draft. The Mavericks have no intention of leaving Jamison unprotected, but don't be surprised if they offer the Charlotte native, who turns 28 in June, in exchange for the No. 4 overall pick.

Don't be surprised, furthermore, if the Bobcats strongly consider making the swap.

Golden State has already made the determination that Jamison is not a fully fledged franchise player, but the likelihood is Charlotte won't find one at No. 4 in this (or any modern-day) draft. As a former Tar Heel who's active in the Charlotte community -- and who's sure to put up numbers if you build an offense around him, especially in the East -- Jamison makes considerable sense for the Bobcats in their infancy. According to league sources, this Charlotte regime is very conscious of doing whatever is necessary to gain some distance from the messy legacy of the George Shinn era. Giving the locals daily access to Jamison would be a fine start, since it figures to be a while before they can give the locals a winning team.

The Bobcats' hesitation would stem from absorbing the bulk of Jamison's max contract, especially when they'll have a first-season salary ceiling that equates to 66 2/3 percent of the full salary cap. Jamison's $12,584,688 million salary next season would eat up roughly a third of that figure.

Jamison's community work in Charlotte makes him especially attractive for the Bobcats.
It also remains to be seen if the Mavericks will see someone they like enough at No. 4 to make a hard trade push. Draft experts aren't terribly optimistic, three months out, that there will be anything close to another Chris Bosh waiting at No. 4 this June.

Then again ...

Dallas is already well-acquainted with Kosta Perovic, the young Serbian center who -- if you believe Vlade Divac, Kosta's boss at Partizan Belgrade -- is a better prospect than Darko Milicic. Another possibility at No. 4 is Pavel Podkolzine, the mammoth Russian. Podkolzine is playing in Italy after pulling out of last June's draft at the 11th hour, and the 7-foot-5 center is apparently playing well. Well enough that there will be no need for second thoughts this time, because he's sure to go in the lottery.

Yet another possibility, of course, is that the Mavericks send Jamison to Charlotte for No. 4 and find a third team interested in the pick, to bring Dallas something it likes even better than a big youngster.

Jamison will be making his first trip to the playoffs in June, in his sixth NBA season. Dallas doesn't regret dealing Nick Van Exel for Jamison -- believing that it moved Van Exel at the height of his value -- but it must also concede that Jamison and Dirk Nowitzki haven't clicked much better than Nowitzki and Antoine Walker. Barring another long postseason run that's difficult to envision at the minute, it's a safe bet that the Mavericks will be re-exploring all their trade options as soon as their season ends.

There is considerable evidence to suggest that Jamison going to Charlotte for No. 4 -- as a former No. 4 overall pick himself, incidentally -- is a viable option ... although it must be noted that league rules preclude the Bobcats from so much as discussing potential trades with the other 29 teams before May 5.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here. Also, click here to send a question for possible use on ESPNEWS.

grndmstr_c · 03-10-2004, 01:32 PM

Marc Stein isn't usually this stupid, is he? AJ and Dirk aren't clicking any better than Dirk and Walker?!?!?!?!?!? Are you kidding me?

MightyToine · 03-10-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
Marc Stein isn't usually this stupid, is he? AJ and Dirk aren't clicking any better than Dirk and Walker?!?!?!?!?!? Are you kidding me?

Just what the hell is THAT supposed to mean, Marc??

Dirk was ready to KILL Walker two nights ago against the Suns....If you call that "CLICKING", I think you need a lobotomy.

mavs413 · 03-10-2004, 01:59 PM

Would any of you trade Jamison for Andre Iguodala? Because thats who would be the best available player in the draft at #4.

OutletPass · 03-10-2004, 02:09 PM

There's no real consensus whatsoever as to who the best players immediately after Okafor and Howard...a short review of different websites will also give you Pavel Podkolzine, Shaun Livingston, Andris Bidirins, Matynas Andriuskevicius, or Kosta Perovic at that spot...so it's a difficult question. I might go for a big man project if they were good enough, but I like the idea of peddling the #4 for an established veteran center.

dalmations202 · 03-10-2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: OutletPass
There's no real consensus whatsoever as to who the best players immediately after Okafor and Howard...a short review of different websites will also give you Pavel Podkolzine, Shaun Livingston, Andris Bidirins, Matynas Andriuskevicius, or Kosta Perovic at that spot...so it's a difficult question. I might go for a big man project if they were good enough, but I like the idea of peddling the #4 for an established veteran center.

OP,
Jamison to Charlotte for the #4 to ? ? ? for who ? ? ?

Who are you thinking of?

mavs413 · 03-10-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: OutletPass
There's no real consensus whatsoever as to who the best players immediately after Okafor and Howard...a short review of different websites will also give you Pavel Podkolzine, Shaun Livingston, Andris Bidirins, Matynas Andriuskevicius, or Kosta Perovic at that spot...so it's a difficult question. I might go for a big man project if they were good enough, but I like the idea of peddling the #4 for an established veteran center.

Andre is the second best College player behind Okafor in the draft. Anybody who has seen him play can not argue that.
After the 'Next Amare', 'Next Ben Wallace', and 'Next Michael Finley', there is Iguodala, probably the best defensive player I have ever seen at the college level.

jayC · 03-10-2004, 02:24 PM

Dampier and the sorts of other centers aren't good enough to make a considerable difference to this team. Maybe in the draft we can find our big man. Jamison in the east could probably carry a team to the playoffs. Im not that interested in bringin another forward along like martin or Wallace. Thats our problem to begin with. Walker is too slow to play small forward, and Jamison is too much of a tweener to play small forward or power forward. If the mavs get beat in the first round, I could see the mavs making the move.

grndmstr_c · 03-10-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

But before anyone even thinks about moving Jamison, Walker needs to be sent packing!

Yeah. This is the thing. Figuring out what to do with Walker is priority number one because he's the piece that doesn't fit. As I see it there are two things this team needs: 1) shooters, or, at least they need their young guys (JHo and Marquis) to learn to shoot. Our only legit three point threats right now are the Big 3. We need at least one more guy with reliable (35%+) three point range, IMO. 2) A atarting caliber center. Duh.
I'd like to see the Mavs do their best to satisfy these needs by trading Walker in the summer. After that's taken care of, they can look at the draft to see if a trade of AJ makes sense.

Drbio · 03-11-2004, 02:20 PM

MT has 1872 posts as I write this......only 1-2 of those posts were worth reading. The rest of them state teh same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

Speedy · 03-11-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Yet another possibility, of course, is that the Mavericks send Jamison to Charlotte for No. 4 and find a third team interested in the pick, to bring Dallas something it likes even better than a big youngster.

I kinda like that idea. Now if Dallas packaged that pick and Walker together, that would be a very attractive offer to a rebuilding team.

dalmations202 · 03-11-2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Speedy

Quote:

Yet another possibility, of course, is that the Mavericks send Jamison to Charlotte for No. 4 and find a third team interested in the pick, to bring Dallas something it likes even better than a big youngster.

I kinda like that idea. Now if Dallas packaged that pick and Walker together, that would be a very attractive offer to a rebuilding team.

What do you think you could get for the #4 and Walker? ? Give me an example.

OutletPass · 03-11-2004, 04:17 PM

dal202...one never knows...that's going to depend on all sorts of factors...

But let me just throw this one out...and it's total speculation to illustrate a point.

Let's say that Kobe does leave the Lakers (involuntarily or voluntarily) and either Payton or Malone (or both) decide not to resign...that leaves Shaq sitting there alone...iff you were LA, would you trade Shaq for the biggest package that you could (expiring contracts and young picks) or try to surround Shaq with some role players ?

I don't have the answer to that, but it's just an illustration of how crazy things could get this year.

Another scenario, if Rasheed Wallace has a change of heart and decides to stay in Detroit, who will Detroit be forced to dump...Darko, Okur, or even Ben Wallace ?

That's why I say...one never knows. We could be in for some very unexpected things....

or not...

Speedy · 03-11-2004, 04:46 PM

Dalm, it's pretty difficult to say. Like alot of other people, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of AJ. I was mostly referring to a rebuilding team being more interested in AW(contract)+#4 pick than AW by himself or AW+AJ. Okafor would be the only player, imo, that could come in and right away 1) fill a big need 2) contribute, but he'll be gone before the 4th pick.

On the topic of who they could get? Maybe a Chandler or a Curry depending on what they want in a center. As you know, unexpected and crazy things can happen in the off-season and with the draft. Teams change their minds all of the time as to what direction they want to go in and as to what other teams are offering, like Phoenix this year.

What are your thoughts?

Speedy · 03-11-2004, 04:49 PM

Sorry about the slow post. I got a call in the middle of my typing.

dalmations202 · 03-11-2004, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Speedy
Dalm, it's pretty difficult to say. Like alot of other people, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of AJ. I was mostly referring to a rebuilding team being more interested in AW(contract)+#4 pick than AW by himself or AW+AJ. Okafor would be the only player, imo, that could come in and right away 1) fill a big need 2) contribute, but he'll be gone before the 4th pick.

On the topic of who they could get? Maybe a Chandler or a Curry depending on what they want in a center. As you know, unexpected and crazy things can happen in the off-season and with the draft. Teams change their minds all of the time as to what direction they want to go in and as to what other teams are offering, like Phoenix this year.

What are your thoughts?

It is difficult to say as well. I don't think Chandler or Curry are worth the #4. And definately not worth the #4 and Walker. I haven't figured out what the Mavs would want the #4 for. If they do get it, I hope they get either the Serbian that Vlade likes, or the big Russian. A developmental Big Man with huge upside if he pans out would be nice.

My personal "GM for the Day" offseason move would be to trade Walker to Denver for Camby, Anderson, and Jon Barry. Barry and Anderson would have to be Sign and Trades (FA), and Camby can opt out, and be a sign and trade as well (to make the #'s work). Three ROLE players that could fit nicely, and defer their offense to the Big 3 and Jamison (if he is still here).

Speedy · 03-11-2004, 05:27 PM

Dalm, I don't think Denver would give up both Camby and Anderson, but you never know. I do agree about your idea on three solid role players though.

I don't think AW+#4 is worth Chandler or Curry either, but maybe for one of those guys+the right package of players+pick/picks would be. Not to mention you could involve a third team. It's hard to single out a certain scenario, but there are many possibilities.

Misfit Mav · 03-13-2004, 09:15 PM

This is a great thread. Very good discusion. I hate to say, but given our play of late, I have been thinking more and more about the off-season.

Quote:

Originally posted by: Speedy
Dalm, it's pretty difficult to say. Like alot of other people, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of AJ. I was mostly referring to a rebuilding team being more interested in AW(contract)+#4 pick than AW by himself or AW+AJ. Okafor would be the only player, imo, that could come in and right away 1) fill a big need 2) contribute, but he'll be gone before the 4th pick.

On the topic of who they could get? Maybe a Chandler or a Curry depending on what they want in a center. As you know, unexpected and crazy things can happen in the off-season and with the draft. Teams change their minds all of the time as to what direction they want to go in and as to what other teams are offering, like Phoenix this year.

What are your thoughts?

I wanted to give an opinion on this point: I think a trade for Curry or Chandler would be very do-able and probably in the best interests of both the Mavs and Chicago. Chicago GM Paxson has made some recent comments about changing the direction of the team and staying away from high-schoolers (at least in the upcoming draft.) I know Chandler is out of favor there. Walker would be great for the Bulls: he is from Chicago, and could shoulder a lot of the offensive load, which he clearly wants to do. Also, he helps them cut salary if he doesn't work out. I think we could do the following trade:

Dallas Trades:

Antoine Walker

Chicago Trades:

Tyson Chandler
Antonio Davis
Jamal Crawford

This would give us a starting center, who is already a good defensive role-player, which is exactly what we need. I think he will turn out to be like a better version of Marcus Camby. He will give us shot-blocking, rebounding, and some inside scoring. Davis is in for salary reasons but could be a good back-up at the power forward spot. Jamal Crawford could be huge for us coming off the bench behind Nash and Fin.

We would also still have the MLE to use on Ostertag, which I think would give us an excellent center rotation. The line-up would look like this:

Tyson Chandler / Ostertag / Bradley
Dirk / Jamison / Antonio Davis
Howard / Jamison
Fin / Crawford
Nash / Crawford

With Chandler, Tag, and Howard we could finally play some solid man-to-man D, we have an excellent back-up point, and a renewed focus on the big three.

dalmations202 · 03-14-2004, 10:09 AM

I could live with this trade for sure. It strengthens their weakness at the 5, and gives them Crawford. I would actually try to package Crawford for one of the Barry's or NVE, but your trade works for me. In fact if it were Walker, for Curry, Chandler, and filler, I would go for it as well. But, I don't see Paxson giving up on Chandler just yet. Who knows, maybe.

grndmstr_c · 03-11-2004, 04:17 PM

Considering that would be basically packaging AJ and Walker from our end, we'd have to get one heck of a good return on that investment. I'm talking bonafide, in or just entering his prime, Top 10 player who fits a need, eg., Jermaine O'Neal.

dalmations202 · 03-11-2004, 04:39 PM

I just don't think you would get Shaq, TD, KG, JO, Kidd, Kobe, TMac, Yao, or even Vinsanity. I like the Shaq idea, but don't really think it would happen.

I am not sure that would be the way to go, but I would be open to it, if the players were "right".

steponhens · 03-13-2004, 01:43 PM

I would do this trade for the Mav's. My personal top four prospects for this draft are:
1) Dwight Howard
2) Emeka Okafor
3) Pavel
4) Luol Deng

I believe all of these people would fit this team better than Jamison. The top three are all big men and I would love to get one. And if Deng were the only one left I would still be overjoyed. It would give Nelson someone who can run the point forward, thus giving him no reason to keep Walker, who will be their most valuable trading peice next season.

Even though I want to win now, we have a bright future as well with our young players(Howard, Daniels), and want the Mav's success to continue for a lot longer. And Dirk still hasn't even hit his prime yet, so getting a young player can help us now, and help us be even stronger in the future.

In five years a team of Pavel, Dirk, Howard, and Daniels is one I would not want to face. Plus if we get Pavel, just due to his size would be able to help out at center for 5-10 minutes a game, and could bang with Shaq and slow him down a little bit. Two players 7'5'' or taller is definately a luxury in the NBA.

It's obvious (I think) this team right now is not going to win anything. Our biggest need is a big man who can play defense and block some shots. In this draft three of the top five prospects fit that mold. The worst defensive big man at the top is Howard, and he is almost a lock to go number one. If Pavel or Okafor drop to four the Mav's would instantly upgrade their interior defense and would increase options to trade Walker for. To me it's a no brainer trade for the Mav's to do this.

grndmstr_c · 03-17-2004, 01:38 AM

Does anybody know what Gadzuric's status will be this offseason? RealGM has him listed as having another year on his contract, but hoopshype's salary page for the Bucks doesn't have anything listed for him next year. If Dallas were somehow able to pull a sign and trade for Damp and were looking for a backup C, he's one I'd be interested in over Tag. Reason being that Damp is about as big a body as you need, and with Bradley still around as a bench contributor you'd like your third center to be an atheltic energy guy who can bring a defensive spark off the bench and run the floor. I really can't think of anybody that could be signed in free agency (that's assuming that Gadzuric will be available) who fits that role better, with the exception of Camby if he opts out.

OutletPass · 03-17-2004, 01:56 AM

GMstr...Patricia's site says that he's on a min. contract and the Bucks have a team option in '05. It further says that he signed on 8/29/02 for 3 years. Hope that helps you.

grndmstr_c · 03-17-2004, 04:21 PM

Bringing in someone who's even harder for 4's to guard is one way to deal with it. Posting up Dirk more is another. As long as the second forward can score on PF's (which Martin can) and can guard SF's (which I think Martin can), I'm comfortable with it. Also, since you have to figure if we did go for Martin he'd probably get 10 or so minutes backing up Dirk at the 4, and 10-15 playing at the 5 (if Eddie can do it, KMart can), Howard would still be able to get his minutes. The fact that we could play Martin at three different positions is a big plus when considering whether he's worth going after. That said, I've thought for a while that a three man SG/SF rotation with Fin/JHo, and Artest would be just fabulous. FWIW, a deal with Indy, (if they do well in the postseason this year I think it's pretty unlikely that they'd be looking to move a piece like Artest), might very well require the assumption of Croshere's contract. I think he'd be a nice fit in Dallas offensively, though we wouldn't be able to play him just a whole lot of minutes since the majority of minutes at the 3 and 4 would already be taken by the afformentioned three man rotation and Dirk.

Speedy · 04-06-2004, 02:04 AM

This is from a Detroit paper. Link

Building Bobcats

Bernie Bickerstaff is the general manager and coach of the expansion Charlotte Bobcats, and a lot of team executives around the league would like to know what he’s thinking.

He isn’t about to get specific, but he does have general ideas about how he will approach the expansion draft.

“Our first pick is very valuable to us and to our franchise,” he said. “It would have to be something monumental for us to consider (trading it).”

He made it clear that he would not be interested in taking players with expensive, long-term contracts.

“The veterans that we want now are guys with one or two years left (on their contracts) and who are good in the locker room and can help our young kids,” Bickerstaff said. “Our kids are going to be the show.”

So, you can rule out Mavericks players Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker, though one of those two might be left unprotected, with Jamison heavily, and wrongfully, rumored to be on Bickerstaff’s short list.

One player who seems to fill his bill, and most likely will be left unprotected, is the Pistons’ Elden Campbell, who played in Charlotte and will be in the final year of his contract.

dalmations202 · 04-06-2004, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Speedy
This is from a Detroit paper. Link

Building Bobcats

Bernie Bickerstaff is the general manager and coach of the expansion Charlotte Bobcats, and a lot of team executives around the league would like to know what he’s thinking.

He isn’t about to get specific, but he does have general ideas about how he will approach the expansion draft.

“Our first pick is very valuable to us and to our franchise,” he said. “It would have to be something monumental for us to consider (trading it).”

He made it clear that he would not be interested in taking players with expensive, long-term contracts.

“The veterans that we want now are guys with one or two years left (on their contracts) and who are good in the locker room and can help our young kids,” Bickerstaff said. “Our kids are going to be the show.”

So, you can rule out Mavericks players Antawn Jamison and Antoine Walker, though one of those two might be left unprotected, with Jamison heavily, and wrongfully, rumored to be on Bickerstaff’s short list.

One player who seems to fill his bill, and most likely will be left unprotected, is the Pistons’ Elden Campbell, who played in Charlotte and will be in the final year of his contract.

of course, I wonder how true this part of the statement is....