Sources: Knicks land Carmelo Anthony - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Underdog · 02-21-2011, 11:23 PM

This needed its own thread...

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The New York Knicks have acquired Carmelo Anthony, league sources told ESPN The Magazine's senior writer Chris Broussard on Monday night.

League sources also told Broussard that none of the teams can officially confirm the deal until Tuesday.

The swap is a three-way deal including Minnesota, a league source told Broussard.

As a part of the deal, Denver will get Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks' 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash while Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman will head to New York, according to the Denver Post.

New York will send Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry to Minnesota as part of the deal, according to the newspaper.

"I'm glad its over," Nuggets coach George Karl said, according to the Denver Post. "I'm glad it's an opportunity to reinvent. I think everybody handled it as classy as you could handle it. There's some sadness to it, there always will be."

Anthony wasn't at the Nuggets' practice on Monday night. Instead, the All-Star forward was in Burbank, Calif., taping a segment on "Conan."

Anthony, who has been the subject of intense speculation as Thursday's trade deadline approaches, stayed behind in Los Angeles following the NBA All-Star Game while his teammates gathered at the Pepsi Center.

Team spokesman Tim Gelt told The Associated Press that Anthony's absence was excused. Late Monday afternoon, Anthony tweeted: "Headed to Burbank to film THE CONAN SHOW."

Anthony has been the subject of trade talks ever since he declined to sign a three-year, $65 million extension with the Nuggets last summer. His biggest pursuers were the Knicks and New Jersey Nets.

LonghornDub · 02-21-2011, 11:32 PM

So when does LeBron come to the Mavs? Tomorrow?

Dnowit41 · 02-21-2011, 11:45 PM

I still doubt they will get past the 2nd round

FINtastic · 02-21-2011, 11:45 PM

Patience. Give Cubes until at least the trade deadline to reel in LeBron.

DMOC · 02-22-2011, 12:03 AM

This trade ended up well for the knicks, as expected. They also get Billups, as well, which allowed them to get rid of Felton.

FINtastic · 02-22-2011, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMOC

This trade ended up well for the knicks, as expected. They also get Billups, as well, which allowed them to get rid of Felton.

It did? They just gutted their roster to get a guy that wanted to sign with them in the offseason.

Dirkadirkastan · 02-22-2011, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It did? They just gutted their roster to get a guy that wanted to sign with them in the offseason.

They feared the wrath of Stephen A. Smith.

FINtastic · 02-22-2011, 12:13 AM

That is something to fear. If it saved them getting yelled at by SAS for the next few years, then maybe that deal was worth it after all.

JCmasta · 02-22-2011, 12:24 AM

Denver just got a large pot o' gold. Can't believe they got the knicks to gut themselves for a guy they probably would've had anyway, do they expect to compete for a title this season?

They won't be able to beat the Bulls or Celtics, they could maybe take down the heat and i don't really think the Magic are "elite".

The way Denver handled this should be an example for teams like Orlando, Utah, NO, etc. Although unfortunately for those teams you probably won't have a desperate, impatient NYK type management to take advantage of.

dirno2000 · 02-22-2011, 12:49 AM

If I'm the Knicks I'm not concerned about "gutting" a .500 team in the East to get a big time player. This wasn't last years OKC team that you could let gel and mature. They weren't going to get much better without another star. Based on what I've read Chandler will be a RFA at the end of the season and his cap hold would have severely hampered their ability to sign Melo outright. So odds are he was leaving anyway. Felton and Billups are at worst a wash for the next couple of seasons and Mosgov is a guy. The only long term hit they're taking here is losing Gallinari.

In the end Melo called the Knicks bluff. My guess is that he was able to convince them that he wasn't going to risk becoming a UFA and would sign with the Nets or Nuggets if they didn't pull the trigger.

FINtastic · 02-22-2011, 01:09 AM

Well what is the plan here exactly? Is this short term deal? I'm not sure a team with Melo, Chauncey, and Amare is ready to compete for a championship especially since this deal contributed very little to shoring up their defense. So looking at it in the short term doesn't seem right to me.

But if we take the long term view, I'm not sure what pieces they have left for making the necessary moves, or how they'll be able to land their needs in the draft (and they threw in their 2014 first rounder for good measure). Not sure how Chauncey figures into all of this either.

They seem to have put all their cards on the table at this point. You think they have a winning hand?

Five-ofan · 02-22-2011, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

If I'm the Knicks I'm not concerned about "gutting" a .500 team in the East to get a big time player. This wasn't last years OKC team that you could let gel and mature. They weren't going to get much better without another star. Based on what I've read Chandler will be a RFA at the end of the season and his cap hold would have severely hampered their ability to sign Melo outright. So odds are he was leaving anyway. Felton and Billups are at worst a wash for the next couple of seasons and Mosgov is a guy. The only long term hit they're taking here is losing Gallinari.

In the end Melo called the Knicks bluff. My guess is that he was able to convince them that he wasn't going to risk becoming a UFA and would sign with the Nets or Nuggets if they didn't pull the trigger.

How are felton and Billups a wash? Id give felton an edge right now and it will only get bigger.

jthig32 · 02-22-2011, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

How are felton and Billups a wash? Id give felton an edge right now and it will only get bigger.

I think you have to see what D'Antoni's system does to Billups before you can make that kind of evaluation.

Ultimately it doesn't matter because the Knicks aren't going anywhere any time soon, but I'm not so sure I'd agree with that conclusion.

dirno2000 · 02-22-2011, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Well what is the plan here exactly? Is this short term deal? I'm not sure a team with Melo, Chauncey, and Amare is ready to compete for a championship especially since this deal contributed very little to shoring up their defense. So looking at it in the short term doesn't seem right to me.

But if we take the long term view, I'm not sure what pieces they have left for making the necessary moves, or how they'll be able to land their needs in the draft (and they threw in their 2014 first rounder for good measure). Not sure how Chauncey figures into all of this either.

They seem to have put all their cards on the table at this point. You think they have a winning hand?

Hard to say what the long term plan is until the new CBA is in place. If there's an NFL style hard cap then they (along with a lot of other teams) may be screwed. Otherwise you keep adding role players with whatever relief the new deal allows teams over the cap and buying draft picks.

Obviously the ideal thing would have been to add him in the off season but to matter of factly say that that's what they should have done ignores the risk in that scenario. Namely Carmello gets cold feet and signs an extension elsewhere. Then where are they? Basically trying to maintain cap flexibility for another year hoping to sign Paul or Williams in 2012. Again without a CBA who know if that will be possible? When you have a perennial all star trying to force his way on to you team you have to pull the trigger IMO.

Will they ever win a title? Probably not but with that core they'll be a player ever year. Add the right guy and get the right breaks and who know?

dirno2000 · 02-22-2011, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

How are felton and Billups a wash? Id give felton an edge right now and it will only get bigger.

Give him the edge based on what? Felton is dishing out assists at a higher rate but that could change in Dan Tony's system. Even if it doesn't Chauncy's a better shooter, gets to the line and I trust him more come playoff time. But you're right, a couple of years down the road Felton should clearly be the better player.

dirno2000 · 02-22-2011, 02:14 AM

Toronto's gotta be kicking themselves right now. I'm sure they could have worked a similar deal for Bosh this time last year when it was clear they were't going anywhere.

Also feel bad for Nuggets fans. You draft a guy at three, live with him through all the legal and P.R. problems and finally, six years later, he takes you to the conference finals.... then a year later he basically says screw you. It's his right but as a fan that's a tough pill to swallow.

Five-ofan · 02-22-2011, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you have to see what D'Antoni's system does to Billups before you can make that kind of evaluation.

Ultimately it doesn't matter because the Knicks aren't going anywhere any time soon, but I'm not so sure I'd agree with that conclusion.

I dont think billups will be helped by D'antoni's system the way that Nash and Felton were. The pace of the game will help some as far as his numbers go simply because he will get more possessions but hes neither a penetrate and kick nor a great pick and roll PG. Hes also 34. I could be wrong but I think that this trade ends up being a giant mistake.

j0Shi · 02-22-2011, 03:17 AM

Phew ... finally this Melo-to-Mavs-thing can be buried.

sefant77 · 02-22-2011, 05:34 AM

It really doesnt matter how many players the Knicks are losing. Felton, Chandler, Gali didnt have any future with the Knicks past 2012 because their extensions would have killed the 2012 plans.

It will be now just harder to get Paul (or even Deron) during the next deadline in the "Anthony style" because a package "Felton+Gali" sounds better than "Billups+picks".

But anyway, latestly summer 2012 you see Deron or Paul in a Knicks jersey.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 06:32 AM

Let's be honest here. Are any of the players the Knicks gave up *that* good? No - they're all replaceable. And possibly replaceable by some of the guys they got in the trade. Billups can replace felton for now (and in the coming years, the Knicks can get another PG - doesn't have to be Chris Paul), Fields' increased minutes helps to cover Gallinari, and brewer could end up being a Chandler replacement.

The point is, the Knicks gave up a lot, yes, but it wasn't all just for Carmelo. They got some bodies back to help them in the short term. I'm not a big Carmelo fan, but you can't pass up the opportunity to get one of the league's best players.

Plus Knicks fans are finally rid of eddy Curry's fat ass. That's a silver lining.

As for Carmelo signing with NY in the offseason - this was my original thought as well. But the Knicks couldn't risk Carmelo going to the nets just because he wanted the extension. Who knows what a new CBA would bring? Carmelo could have lost A LOT of money. To us little people, it's all the same to us, but I guarantee that extension was the top priority of Carmelo and his wife.

j0Shi · 02-22-2011, 06:46 AM

Yeah the Knicks definitely improved a lot. Lets see how far they can get this season. Even with the upgrade it seems unlikely that they will seed higher than 6th which means they would meet either Boston, Miami or Chicago in the first round without homecourt. Still looks like a first round exit to me.

Mav Addict · 02-22-2011, 10:28 AM

Who care about the Knicks, they have to worry about Boston and Miami and the rest of the East....all I care about is did Denver improve?....or they take a step back?.....b/c they way I look at it is... thats another thorn out of the side of the Mavs....now only Spurts and Fakers stand in our way in the West.

Rick41 · 02-22-2011, 10:34 AM

I scored some tix to the Knicks @ Mavs game on March 10th in a suite, and the Melo deal just made it "suiter"

.

Mav Addict · 02-22-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

I scored some tix to the Knicks @ Mavs game on March 10th in a suite, and the melo deal just Made it "suiter"

.

Nice

Dtownsfinest · 02-22-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I dont think billups will be helped by D'antoni's system the way that Nash and Felton were. The pace of the game will help some as far as his numbers go simply because he will get more possessions but hes neither a penetrate and kick nor a great pick and roll PG. Hes also 34. I could be wrong but I think that this trade ends up being a giant mistake.

I've been discussing this with some guys I know and they're ripping for this opinion. But I feel the same way. I think the Knicks had a tight nice young nucleus. It made since to add Melo to that. While I don't think this hurts them by adding Melo its a lateral move. They didn't get worse but didn't get better and they had a chance to. I really like Wilson Chandler's game. Defensively the Knicks got worse having Amare at the 4 and Melo at the 3. I don't like this move AT ALL for the Knicks. Its a superstar league but the best TEAMS win championships.

Dtownsfinest · 02-22-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Let's be honest here. Are any of the players the Knicks gave up *that* good? No - they're all replaceable. And possibly replaceable by some of the guys they got in the trade. Billups can replace felton for now (and in the coming years, the Knicks can get another PG - doesn't have to be Chris Paul), Fields' increased minutes helps to cover Gallinari, and brewer could end up being a Chandler replacement.

The point is, the Knicks gave up a lot, yes, but it wasn't all just for Carmelo. They got some bodies back to help them in the short term. I'm not a big Carmelo fan, but you can't pass up the opportunity to get one of the league's best players.

Plus Knicks fans are finally rid of eddy Curry's fat ass. That's a silver lining.

As for Carmelo signing with NY in the offseason - this was my original thought as well. But the Knicks couldn't risk Carmelo going to the nets just because he wanted the extension. Who knows what a new CBA would bring? Carmelo could have lost A LOT of money. To us little people, it's all the same to us, but I guarantee that extension was the top priority of Carmelo and his wife.

I think you're selling Chandler, Gallarani and Felton short. Replaceable? Yes. But they're getting better each year. Especially Gallanari and Chandler. Not to mention they're a strong reason why the Knicks have improved this year. They contributed a lot to that Knicks team and I guess Billups and Melo will probably contribute just as much but like I said above its just a lateral move.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 01:10 PM

there was no way the knicks could have added Carmelo without giving something up. Even if they waited til the offseason in the slim hopes that carmelo didn't sign an extension and accept a trade to the knicks, Chandler would have been gone anyway (not re-signed) because of his contract status.

So now you're really looking at Felton vs billups/future pg and Gallinari vs Brewer/Fields.

i never said these guys weren't good players. They obviously are, which is why we're discussing it. But Fields will get more minutes (he can play SG/SF in that system easily) with gallinari gone and can easily duplicate gallinari's production (Fields is already shooting a better FG and 3P% and rebounding better). And of course Carmelo can far exceed Gallinari's production at the SF slot (PF if amare plays Center). And adding Brewer to that mix helps them a little on offense but definitely more on defense.

As for felton vs billups - this is a question mark for sure. let's see what billups does in the system. We know dantoni loves the 3-pointer and Billups can still hit the 3 better than Felton. Felton is obviously younger and has been playing well, but he's no stud. PG is no longer a barren position in this league, and the knicks can get someone else to run the team when Billups' time is up (or even before).

again, the key here is carmelo's desire for MORE MONEY. i am a firm believer he would be on the nets if the knicks didn't pull the trigger. Then the knicks lose out on Lebron AND Carmelo. plus denver wanted to trade so they get something back. Even if they did an off-season sign and trade (with a new CBA, who knows what Carmelo would have gotten here), the nuggets would still be asking for the same pieces.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 01:10 PM

Also, i am in no way saying they are going to win it all this year, or even come close. or even do it in the future. but the knicks had to do this.

Dtownsfinest · 02-22-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

there was no way the knicks could have added Carmelo without giving something up. Even if they waited til the offseason in the slim hopes that carmelo didn't sign an extension and accept a trade to the knicks, Chandler would have been gone anyway (not re-signed) because of his contract status.

So now you're really looking at Felton vs billups/future pg and Gallinari vs Brewer/Fields.

i never said these guys weren't good players. They obviously are, which is why we're discussing it. But Fields will get more minutes (he can play SG/SF in that system easily) with gallinari gone and can easily duplicate gallinari's production (Fields is already shooting a better FG and 3P% and rebounding better). And of course Carmelo can far exceed Gallinari's production at the SF slot (PF if amare plays Center). And adding Brewer to that mix helps them a little on offense but definitely more on defense.

As for felton vs billups - this is a question mark for sure. let's see what billups does in the system. We know dantoni loves the 3-pointer and Billups can still hit the 3 better than Felton. Felton is obviously younger and has been playing well, but he's no stud. PG is no longer a barren position in this league, and the knicks can get someone else to run the team when Billups' time is up (or even before).

again, the key here is carmelo's desire for MORE MONEY. i am a firm believer he would be on the nets if the knicks didn't pull the trigger. Then the knicks lose out on Lebron AND Carmelo. plus denver wanted to trade so they get something back. Even if they did an off-season sign and trade (with a new CBA, who knows what Carmelo would have gotten here), the nuggets would still be asking for the same pieces.

Oh I agree. Melo was never going to be a free agent. It was either the Knicks trade for him now or later. He was never gonna be a free agent next season. I just think the Knicks overtraded for him but they had to if they wanted him. Knicks made a move they have to. The MSG will be packed as always and they will sell Melo jerseys. I get the move. I just think from a basketball standpoint the Knick's aren't going anywhere with this team. But a core of Amare and Melo is a hell of a core. I'll give them that. It'll be easier to build with that core than what they had before.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 01:24 PM

I just think people are overrating felton. look at all the young PGs across the league. i think any of them could do what felton has in that system. I like this quote from Simmons on the subject (in his trade value column):

Quote:

Darren Collison, D.J. Augustin, Jrue Holiday: Love the price for all three, but really, it's not life-altering to get 14-15 points, 5-6 assists and 35-36 percent shooting from a point guard. There's never been a deeper crew of point guards -- we go something like 20 strong, and that's not even counting the Ridnour/Blake/Udrih types. Remember the days when there were so few decent point guards that Eric Snow and Howard Eisley signed $40 million deals? No more. Long gone.

EricaLubarsky · 02-22-2011, 01:40 PM

I think overall the number of serviceable point guards has increased but the availability of the top tier point guards is still stifling.

When you are looking at the 2nd/3rd tier points there are a lot of them but not a whole lot of availability. The supply has gone up but I'd argue that the demand has also risen for decent point guards.

Mav Addict · 02-22-2011, 01:49 PM

Darren Collison, D.J. Augustin, Jrue Holiday: Love the price for all three, but really, it's not life-altering to get 14-15 points, 5-6 assists and 35-36 percent shooting from a point guard. There's never been a deeper crew of point guards -- we go something like 20 strong, and that's not even counting the Ridnour/Blake/Udrih types. Remember the days when there were so few decent point guards that Eric Snow and Howard Eisley signed $40 million deals? No more. Long gone.

If we could sign a backup PG that could avg. this, and with a healthy Roddy providing 15-20 pts a night, we would be WCF bound for sure

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

If we could sign a backup PG that could avg. this, and with a healthy Roddy providing 15-20 pts a night, we would be WCF bound for sure

not sure many backup PGs in that range would average that. Starters, maybe.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I think overall the number of serviceable point guards has increased but the availability of the top tier point guards is still stifling.

When you are looking at the 2nd/3rd tier points there are a lot of them but not a whole lot of availability. The supply has gone up but I'd argue that the demand has also risen for decent point guards.

I agree demand has gone up. But just those 3 referenced are in their 2nd/3rd year. we also have wall, flynn, lawson, Stephen Curry (could you imagine him in Dantoni's system?????? man they should have traded up that year), Jennings, maynor (could be good with more minutes), bledsoe, all over the past 2 years, off the top of my head. Then we have the college kids coming available soon - Nolan Smith, Kyrie Erving (would have been one and done if didn't get hurt, maybe after next season), Fredette, Pullen, Isaiah Thomas, Brandon Knight (probably one and done), Kalin Lucas, McConnell (St. Mary's), and many many more. not saying these guys would start right away, but the PG position is going to be getting more talent.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 04:19 PM

Or... This offseason, the knicks trade picks and cash to minny for the rights to Ricky Rubio!

Oh, too bad he sucks now.

rabbitproof · 02-22-2011, 04:38 PM

I can see it now.

It's 2012.

And DWill vs CP3 are in a reverse auction fight to see who takes the least money to sign with NYC.

Mav Addict · 02-22-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

not sure many backup PGs in that range would average that. Starters, maybe.

JJB

Big Boy Laroux · 02-22-2011, 09:21 PM

Or Harris?

Mav Addict · 02-22-2011, 09:23 PM

Touché.

aquaadverse · 02-22-2011, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Toronto's gotta be kicking themselves right now. I'm sure they could have worked a similar deal for Bosh this time last year when it was clear they were't going anywhere.
.

And would have run into the same roadblock the Suns did with Amar'e. A wide open free agency with teams shedding assets for a year or so to put themselves in the position to bid for your ass and quite likely to overpay you. There was zero incentive for anyone to sign an extension.

Melo was up against his next contract being under the new CBA and Denver called New York's bluff.