PGT: Neal down Spurs, Mavericks on top of Southwest - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Skywalker · 01-29-2012, 10:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf03U4HOgAU&hd=1

Bayliss · 01-29-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

This really depends on what you're looking for. If you're worried about standings, then you're correct. If you're worried about how the team is playing, you couldn't be more wrong.

Jthig, this game will be no indication of how the Mavs will be playing 20 games from now. 5% of a stretch will not be an indicator one way or another with how a team is playing, especially if it is the first 5%.

jthig32 · 01-29-2012, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Jthig, this game will be no indication of how the Mavs will be playing 20 games from now. 5% of a stretch will not be an indicator one way or another with how a team is playing, especially if it is the first 5%.

Is it not an indicator of how they're playing now, though? Is it not an indicator that they have issues with letting up too soon, with letting teams go on big runs?

I'm not saying we need to hit a panic button or anything, but I just don't agree at all that "winning is the important thing" at this point of the season.

Bayliss · 01-29-2012, 10:47 PM

Well, that is one major reason why Kidd plays. He can pass the ball to Dirk. Sounds retarded, but he is the only Maverick capable of feeding Dirk in the post consistently. And he is the only Maverick who can feed Dirk on backdoor cuts if the opponent is fronting or denying Dirk the ball.

endrity · 01-30-2012, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, that is one major reason why Kidd plays. He can pass the ball to Dirk. Sounds retarded, but he is the only Maverick capable of feeding Dirk in the post consistently. And he is the only Maverick who can feed Dirk on backdoor cuts if the opponent is fronting or denying Dirk the ball.

This is very true! It's the major reason we lost to GS in 07, no one could make an entry pass on that team and Dirk had to come close to the 3pt line and try to beat guards off the dribble with 8 seconds left.

Kidd's passes are on the money, (duh, right) and if only for that he still deserves to play.

j0Shi · 01-29-2012, 10:48 PM

Statistical observations:

Game:

@dallasmavs beat Spurs 105.70 to 104.66 pp100. Mavs have now allowed at least 100 pp100 in all of last 3 and 5 of their last 7
As you can see in the gameflow chart, Mavs hold Spurs to <90 Eff most of the game and then their bench happened.
Spurs ended up with a 154.61 Offensive Efficiency in the 4th, but it was well over 200 for a good chunk of it.
Still not the worst 4th quarter collapse this year in terms of Efficiency Differential. Today -51.54, at Minnesota: -60.73
Mavs end up with an assists rate of 34.09% which is the worst for a game this season. Block rate of 12.77% is season best.
Spurs did good job of cutting down the driving lanes. Mavs took their average 2-point shot from 12.19 feet, also a season-worst.

Lineups:

The great run by San Antonio came against the Terry, West backcourt in the second half, outscored them 10-23 on 179.31.
But it really was relaxing from everybody. Jones wasn't into it, Dirk looked completely lost in closing out Bonner.
Starting lineup ends up getting outscored 13-16 on 83.03 DefEff, best combo tonight Terry/Roddy: outscored Spurs 50-39 on 95.00 DefEff
With both Terry & Roddy, Mavs assisted on 60.00% and shot 59.72%
Lineups with Ian had slight edge for today, DefEff 102.10, TRB% 52.94. With Haywood: 113.59 and 48.94%

Players:

Terry grabs +/- at +38.11. Well deserved. Dirk, Roddy trail. West, Ian, Marion on bottom here.
Might be the stat of the night: When Roddy wasn't on the floor, Mavs assisted on 6.67% of their FGs and shot 39.47% eFG. With: 48.28%/50.00%
Terry (4th Q PER 37.60) & Roddy (43.06) saved the game for Mavs. Esp Roddy /w two blocks, 2 assists bailed out Dirk (PER -1.73) on both ends
Roddy and Terry score the last 18 points of the game in the 4th to reach OT.
Most love in advanced metrics (WS48/WP48/PER...) for Terry, Carter. Statistically all but West and Jones contributed to the win.
Actually first Clutch minutes for Roddy this season, not bad to post a Clutch-PER of 43.76 then. Terry 39, Carter 33, Dirk 12 for season.
Best rebounder was Dirk with 17.8% TRB. Have to say didn't "feel" like it watching the game.
Haywood leads Ian in WinShares, PER and stuff. Also Mavs played +4.21pp100 with Wood, -13.43 /w Ian.

Ranking:

Mavs remain 3rd in DefEff (98.44) despite late struggles, now 8th in Points off FTs and in the Paint (58.49 pp100) and 7th in eFG% (46.04)
But rebounding and giving up FTs remains general concern: Drop to 11th in DRB% (74.92) and are 23rd in giving up fouls and AND1s.
Offense still in the bottom half of league

Short version: Terry and Roddy saved our asses tonight.
Dirk has to get back to full whatever.

Bayliss · 01-29-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Is it not an indicator of how they're playing now, though? Is it not an indicator that they have issues with letting up too soon, with letting teams go on big runs?

I'm not saying we need to hit a panic button or anything, but I just don't agree at all that "winning is the important thing" at this point of the season.

Winning isn't the only important thing. But the Mavs winning this game was the most important thing that came from this game.

And 20 games from now, no one is going to go back and look and see that the 1 point win came from beating the Spurs second unit. The regular season this year is going to be quirky. Too many games, no rest, coaches playing makeshift lineups, etc etc...

j0Shi · 01-29-2012, 10:57 PM

Kidd would have gotten the ball to Dirk better, but Dirk was 3-for-12 outside six feet so why exactly do you want him to get even more touches? The refs were adding to the whole mess in allowing Blair, well, everything?

As said, much on not getting the ball was on him, because he couldn't outbattle Blair. Late game vs. Splitter it was much better, because Splitter wasn't that aggressive.

JHT · 01-29-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

As said, much on not getting the ball was on him, because he couldn't outbattle Blair. Late game vs. Splitter it was much better, because Splitter wasn't that aggressive.

I hate to blame Dirk for it any more than Roddy though... I'm not sure how he could have outbattled him without basically committing a flagrant.

It was pretty disgusting what the refs were letting Blair do, and the only way to out battle him would be to take the whole thing up another notch... and the next step from where they were at was a Flagrant 1.

roadrunner · 01-29-2012, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Kidd would have gotten the ball to Dirk better, but Dirk was 3-for-12 outside six feet so why exactly do you want him to get even more touches? The refs were adding to the whole mess in allowing Blair, well, everything?

As said, much on not getting the ball was on him, because he couldn't outbattle Blair. Late game vs. Splitter it was much better, because Splitter wasn't that aggressive.

I dont get how Dirk being fouled but not called is somehow his fault for not getting the ball. I give Roddy credit for doing plenty of good things out there, but when Dirk did get into high post position Roddy failed to even try to get him the ball on several occasions. The PnR was the same thing. Kidd would do a much better job of feeding him in those situations.

As for his touches, I dont personally care if Dirk is 0 fer, I want him taking shots. He certainly deserves the benefit of the doubt

JHT · 01-29-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

I dont get how Dirk being fouled but not called is somehow his fault for not getting the ball. I give Roddy credit for doing plenty of good things out there, but when Dirk did get into high post position Roddy failed to even try to get him the ball on several occasions. The PnR was the same thing. Kidd would do a much better job of feeding him in those situations.

Actually you know who usually runs the PnR with Dirk?

JET.

And JET was out there the entire time, and they didn't even try to run that two man game.

Maybe Rick didn't want them to.

If the issue was really that Roddy was somehow too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk, Rick would have called for JET to do it.

He didn't. So I don't think that was the problem.

roadrunner · 01-29-2012, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHT

Actually you know who usually runs the PnR with Dirk?

JET.

And JET was out there the entire time, and they didn't even try to run that two man game.

Maybe Rick didn't want them to.

If the issue was really that Roddy was somehow too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk, Rick would have called for JET to do it.

He didn't. So I don't think that was the problem.

Good point on the JET PnR in the sense that they do run that alot and have been very successful, but are u sure they didnt run any of those this game? I would have to rewatch the game to answer that myself. Even if that is the case, u implying that Rick told them not to run a PnR? That sounds unreasonable given how successful it is.

Yes, Roddy was too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk on several occasions whether it was a PnR or a high post. It is something that Roddy needs to learn and adjust to and I like Roddy so I am looking forward to his adjiustments to improve that part of his game.

JHT · 01-29-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Yes, Roddy was too incompetent to get the ball to Dirk on several occasions whether it was a PnR or a high post. It is something that Roddy needs to learn and adjust to and I like Roddy so I am looking forward to his adjiustments to improve that part of his game.

I guess I don't understand what you expect from him when Blair is basically fouling Dirk before the pass every time. I don't know how anyone, even Kidd in his prime, could have gotten Dirk the ball... and again if it was all Roddy's fault then why didn't Rick have Terry do it (since Terry does it most of the time anyway). Terry never attempted it, not even once.

Once Blair was out of the picture and Splitter was on Dirk, they got Dirk the ball. Dirk then missed most of his shots, but they did get him the ball and usually in a pretty good spot.

j0Shi · 01-29-2012, 11:05 PM

What really pisses me off is the fact that Popovic had already conceded this game. When that unit is out there, he basically says, well if they make a run, I'll be fine. And if we lose by 30 I'll be fine, too. That's how it works for the Spurs on the road this season.

I mean, you should know that stuff and put even more effort into the game to put that team away. A quality finish to the third would have done. That's under three minutes of solid play from Terry, DoJo, West, Odom and Ian and they managed to screw up completely.

jthig32 · 01-29-2012, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

What really pisses me off is the fact that Popovic had already conceded this game. When that unit is out there, he basically says, well if they make a run, I'll be fine. And if we lose by 30 I'll be fine, too. That's how it works for the Spurs on the road this season.

I mean, you should know that stuff and put even more effort into the game to put that team away. A quality finish to the third would have done. That's under three minutes of solid play from Terry, DoJo, West, Odom and Ian and they managed to screw up completely.

Yep. This was the first of a 4 games in 5 nights set. Pop was throwing in the towel. Absolutely ridiculous to let them back in that game. Honestly, I put some of it on Rick. Why the hell was DJones out there at that time? That's so unlike him. Usually he's TOO cautious with getting the blow out crew in the game.

j0Shi · 01-29-2012, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Yep. This was the first of a 4 games in 5 nights set. Pop was throwing in the towel. Absolutely ridiculous to let them back in that game. Honestly, I put some of it on Rick. Why the hell was DJones out there at that time? That's so unlike him. Usually he's TOO cautious with getting the blow out crew in the game.

That's really kind of an unforced error there. At some point Marion played the 5 with Terry, West, DoJo and Carter out there. I mean buying some minutes for Roddy, Dirk is one thing, but we have some depth at the 4 and 5, use it.

JHT · 01-29-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

That's really kind of an unforced error there. At some point Marion played the 5 with Terry, West, DoJo and Carter out there. I mean buying some minutes for Roddy, Dirk is one thing, but we have some depth at the 4 and 5, use it.

Agreed and Dojo didn't cost them the lead really.

Actually I don't think the Mavs did anything wrong, specifically, to cost them the lead. What happened was the Spurs started hitting tons of contested threes, pretty much out of nowhere, even from guys who can't make those shots.

I'm not sure how they could have stopped it. I guess a couple of them were open shots, but NONE of them were WIDE open and a lot of them were contested.

Combine that with the fact that the refs refused to call any fouls and yeah... there goes the lead.

grndmstr_c · 01-29-2012, 11:35 PM

It wasn't a masterful floor game by Booby, but he was easily the team's best PG tonight, in my estimation, and he made some absolutely essential plays down the stretch. I suspect that a collective fail by the refs and some lingering rust on Dirk made Booby/Dirk connection looks more dysfunctional than it really is.

The comeback was frustrating, and some of the Spurs looks in the 2nd half were undoubtedly the result of lackluster closeouts by the Mavs, but that was also a pretty low probability run even with the way the Mavs relaxed, so I'm not inclined to get too worked up about it. Mainly I'm just going to file it away in my "reasons why I hate the Spurs" folder and hope to not see a repeat any time soon.

And one thing in particular that I really don't want to see a repeat of is DoJo getting garbage minutes in a three-guard lineup that early in a game against a troublesome rival. It may seem a minor thing, and the Spurs only outscored the Mavs by 5 in DoJo's four minutes, but it was during DoJo's stint on court that the Spurs' subs found their rhythm and got their confidence. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little miffed at Rick for that one. Cardinal, Yi and Brandan would all have been better choices for those minutes, IMO, and I don't think I'm getting carried away with hindsight by saying so.

jthig32 · 01-29-2012, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And one thing in particular that I really don't want to see a repeat of is DoJo getting garbage minutes in a three-guard lineup that early in a game against a troublesome rival. It may seem a minor thing, and the Spurs only outscored the Mavs by 5 in DoJo's four minutes, but it was during DoJo's stint on court that the Spurs' subs found their rhythm and got their confidence. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little miffed at Rick for that one. Cardinal, Yi and Brandan would all have been better choices for those minutes, IMO, and I don't think I'm getting carried away with hindsight by saying so.

Absolutely. That was so confusing. I'd love to get into Rick's head on that one. Maybe Dojo showed him something last game and he wanted to try to get him some time. Or maybe it was a match up they liked. Whatever it was, I didn't like it. Dojo's got no business being in a game that's still in doubt.

dude1394 · 01-30-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Absolutely. That was so confusing. I'd love to get into Rick's head on that one. Maybe Dojo showed him something last game and he wanted to try to get him some time. Or maybe it was a match up they liked. Whatever it was, I didn't like it. Dojo's got no business being in a game that's still in doubt.

I thought the spurs went really small and without delonte being full speed he needed another guard and he wanted some quicker defense.. Yi,wright weren't viable. It was strange to see him out there in real minutes however. I'm not sure rick liked what he saw because he was getting after him pretty good. What was it about?

chumdawg · 01-29-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And one thing in particular that I really don't want to see a repeat of is DoJo getting garbage minutes in a three-guard lineup that early in a game against a troublesome rival. It may seem a minor thing, and the Spurs only outscored the Mavs by 5 in DoJo's four minutes, but it was during DoJo's stint on court that the Spurs' subs found their rhythm and got their confidence. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little miffed at Rick for that one. Cardinal, Yi and Brandan would all have been better choices for those minutes, IMO, and I don't think I'm getting carried away with hindsight by saying so.

Which just goes to show that if you think you can please everybody, you are sorely, sorely mistaken.

JHT · 01-30-2012, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

And one thing in particular that I really don't want to see a repeat of is DoJo getting garbage minutes in a three-guard lineup that early in a game against a troublesome rival. It may seem a minor thing, and the Spurs only outscored the Mavs by 5 in DoJo's four minutes, but it was during DoJo's stint on court that the Spurs' subs found their rhythm and got their confidence. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little miffed at Rick for that one. Cardinal, Yi and Brandan would all have been better choices for those minutes, IMO, and I don't think I'm getting carried away with hindsight by saying so.

No argument there. I don't think Dojo is to blame for the Spurs comeback, but really don't understand why he was in there at all, or rather why they rolled out the 3 guard lineup at all.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-30-2012, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

It wasn't a masterful floor game by Booby, but he was easily the team's best PG tonight, in my estimation, and he made some absolutely essential plays down the stretch. I suspect that a collective fail by the refs and some lingering rust on Dirk made Booby/Dirk connection looks more dysfunctional than it really is.

It's really hard not to get excited about uttering the words "team's best pg" when referring to Roddy. The team will reach a new level if he keeps it up.

j0Shi · 01-29-2012, 11:39 PM

nowhereman · 01-29-2012, 11:41 PM

The play that pissed me off was when Dirk thought he had the rebound, a Spurs player stole it from him, and Dirk turns to complain to the ref as the player corrals it and gets a layup. Can't give up plays like that.

Great effort from Roddy and Jet. Loved Roddy in the final minute of regulation. Also, a rare 30 point game from Jet - he's had 2 in each of the last 3 seasons (playoffs included) - so that was a welcome sight. Sorely needed tonight.

JHT · 01-30-2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

The play that pissed me off was when Dirk thought he had the rebound, a Spurs player stole it from him, and Dirk turns to complain to the ref as the player corrals it and gets a layup. Can't give up plays like that.

You mean the play where Dirk had a rebound and a Spurs player blatantly fouled him, took it from him, and the ref was sitting there watching it and didn't blow his whistle?

Dirk should have complained. Someone needed to say something.

mavspwnage · 01-30-2012, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHT

You mean the play where Dirk had a rebound and a Spurs player blatantly fouled him, took it from him, and the ref was sitting there watching it and didn't blow his whistle?

Dirk should have complained. Someone needed to say something.

But after the play was over. If there is no whistle, then there's no whistle. State your case when you are back on offense going to the other end of the court.

CadBane · 01-29-2012, 11:54 PM

Man,

I really hate playing the Spurs. Their scrubs always go HAM from deep on us. Neal, Greeen, Bonner, now Anderson. Pop could coach a Y-league to a winning record in the NBA.

The Mavs really need to start getting Dirk some early touches going forward. It's just not fair to expect him to have any rhythm when he doesn't get a shot till the end of the 1st Quarter. Hopefully the knee is good enough to where they can start posting him again (I know part it was Roddy's poor passing and Blair's fouling, but still).

mavspwnage · 01-30-2012, 12:03 AM

lol look where our old buddy irishock showed up.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190540

ha!

CadBane · 01-30-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavspwnage

lol look where our old buddy irishock showed up.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190540

ha!

That kid posts on more message boards than baskerballgirl67 (or whatever it was).

mavspwnage · 01-30-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

That kid posts on more message boards than baskerballgirl67 (or whatever it was).

ugh basketballgirl was even worse than irishock. Which is saying something.

4Dirk1Nowitzki · 01-30-2012, 02:36 AM

Loved the mavs activity on the boards this game.

At the beginning of the year there would only be one person maybe two people at most pursuing defensive rebounds. but today and the last couple of games the Mavs have some gang rebounding going on.

Even on some occasions u could see a couple of Mavs players battling each other for the boards. The improved defensive effort and rebounding is going to be key.

We almost blew it out there today, but Dirk looked good on the boards. Hopefully his offense will come eventually. I'm just happy the rest of the team is doing great on offense. The system RC is running does not rely on Dirk too much so we are winning these games as a team. Team basketball is a beautiful thing.

Ninkobei · 01-30-2012, 07:34 AM

Dirk looked like he's 50 years old out there

Thomas86 · 01-30-2012, 09:10 AM

This game should have never went into a OT...hopefully RC and the Mavs learn from this or it might come back to bite them in the a** when it matters.

Terry and Carter played great and I think it might be time for Dirk to rest again because he looked slow out there...you know it's bad when Matt Bonner is beating Dirk down the court.

SMC0007 · 01-30-2012, 11:48 AM

The Spares fans behind our bench were driving me as crazy as all those throw in 3ptrs the started nailing late in the game. I LOVED that they had to eat shit in the end! Suck one.

dude1394 · 01-30-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The Spares fans behind our bench were driving me as crazy as all those throw in 3ptrs the started nailing late in the game. I LOVED that they had to eat shit in the end! Suck one.

It is always sweet to look at the sad faces of spurs fans as they trudge out. One of my fav Mavs memories is going down to san Antonio to watch the Mavs spank that rear end. The river walk was a lot of fun that night!

I really do like that downtown area.

GermanDunk · 01-30-2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

The Spares fans behind our bench were driving me as crazy as all those throw in 3ptrs the started nailing late in the game. I LOVED that they had to eat shit in the end! Suck one.

Do Road-supporters go by bus, train or are they travelling by their own cars ?