Now what?

[EricaLubarsky]

1) Trade Bertans, Powell (expiring), and a FRP for Brogdon. Indy saves money and gets a FRP.

2) Sign GP2 to the TPMLE

3) Sign Bamba on a min deal

Wood/ Bamba
DFS/ Kleber
Bullock/ GP/ Green
THJ/ SD/ Pinson/ Hardy
Luka/ Brogdon/ Frank

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

It's not 5mill. It's 130mill in salary and taxes THIS YEAR ALONE as well as being hamstrung in every single transaction including MLEs.

We're fucked because of KP's max deal and Donnie being useless for so long. That's it. Nico split that KP deal into two, but we're still saddled with that ridiculous salary with Luka's max deal kicking in too.

If we weren't in cap/tax hell, it would be another story, but let's not be disingenuous with our reporting. It's not Cuban balking over spending 5 million.

Don't get the people started with "fuck it, it's just Cuban's money and not mine, don't care" - as if billionaires got to that point being financially fucking stupid.

It would be asinine to pay up $130MM for Brunson for that first year, just stupid money. Cuban might have a lot of money, but you still have to be responsible. And that a significant chunk of his net worth, which a lot of people have a hard time understanding that's not liquid...

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Hartenstein has emerged as the favorite to land in Orlando from Stein

Why would any FA big consider Orlando? They have crowded already. Why is Orlando even looking for a big?

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by saclare

Don't get the people started with "fuck it, it's just Cuban's money and not mine, don't care" - as if billionaires got to that point being financially fucking stupid.

It would be asinine to pay up $130MM for Brunson for that first year, just stupid money. Cuban might have a lot of money, but you still have to be responsible. And that a significant chunk of his net worth, which a lot of people have a hard time understanding that's not liquid...

All I can say is that the current NBA Champs are that stupid. If Cuban can't afford it, then sure. But it would be sad to think that the Mavs are destined to be a franchise where they might catch lightning in a bottle once in a while, but they are not really contenders year-to-year. But if that's the reality, then so be it.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Cheapskate?

Signing the guard to a $30M contract would have cost the Mavericks a total of $130M in salary/tax in one season for Brunson alone.

Cuban is a billionaire, but that tax rate is absurd. The tax alone for Brunson would match the salary of every other player combined and the repeat tax just keeps wrecking us and would prevent us from retaining Wood if he works out.

Agree it is absurd for Cuban but that just means we need a different owner that actually has money correct? Let's quit crying for Mark and how steep the tax hit would be. No it doesn't keep wrecking us unless you buy into Mark doesn't really have the money frame of reference. Let's remember he was the benefactor of receiving tax money for the past decade.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by saclare

Don't get the people started with "fuck it, it's just Cuban's money and not mine, don't care" - as if billionaires got to that point being financially fucking stupid.

It would be asinine to pay up $130MM for Brunson for that first year, just stupid money. Cuban might have a lot of money, but you still have to be responsible. And that a significant chunk of his net worth, which a lot of people have a hard time understanding that's not liquid...

So is the goal to ensure that Mark is comfortably under the cap in 3 years and makes 150 million per year regardless of team outcome? Why do you care what Mark pays? Perhaps he should take on an ownership group that could help with the actual cash cost of having a supermax player surrounded by a competent cast. If the goal is cost certainty then either sell the team or trade Luka for a bunch of disposable parts that could easily be shed to keep Mark from paying his precious luxury tax... Poor Mark

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Without? That?s just silly. Mavs don?t make it out of the first round without him in a down year. You lose a guy that can spell you and go get a bucket. West will be harder next year.

I don't share the same opinion, sorry. I think this Mavs team minus Brunson and plus Wood and THJ is at worst the same. Not even factoring in a full offseason for Dinwiddie/Bertans, healthy Luka, etc. etc. I also think Dinwiddie will show a lot more burst, as is the case with most players coming off of similar injuries. Typically takes a season and a half to return to where they were, modern medicine and procedures be damned. It's a tough sport where even the slightest drop to your explosiveness can dramatically change the way you can play vs. pre-injury.

And for that big bad West? Let's go through it...starting with last year's standings as a base...

1. Suns - due for a big regression with the likely loss of Ayton (if not, a large increase to his pay and their payroll), CP3 getting older, etc. etc. I see them as a team the Mavs broke

2. Grizzlies - they have a nice trajectory and are poised to be just as good if not better next season. I would have them right back at the 2 seed.

3. Warriors - defending champs, gold standard, not losing much if anyone. They will be a problem.

4. Mavs - see above

5. Jazz - lol fucked, don't think any change of coach or scenery will help mend the issues within this team

6. Nuggets - similar to Grizzlies for me with a larger question mark to health. They have the best player in the NBA, but can Murray return to form? Will Porter Jr. ever be healthy? I actually like the small trade they did, but don't think I would put them above the Mavs.

7. Timberwolves - pieces there, but they are what they are and have been. Only hope from them is a big step forward from ANT

8. Pelicans - love what they've done, but can they get Zion back and healthy and focused? If so, a team to watch out for and very similar to the Grizz

9. Clippers - obvious contender, but HUGE health concerns. They will be right at the top if they can have Kawhi and George healthy. Big IF there...

10. Spurs - set to regress, shopping Murray? Doesn't make sense to me as I thought they'd build around him.

11. Lakers - lol to the same old story. Lebron getting older yet playing out of his mind, for how much longer? AD huge health concerns and Westbrook a terrible fit. Really nothing else here but for them to hope AD is healthy.

Bottom of the barrel - Kings, Blazers, Thunder, Rockets - really only the Blazers would have a chance to truly contend pending any weight you give to the Jerami Grant acquisition and I actually like their pick of Shaedon Sharpe

EAST - will be fairly similar to last year with their true contenders being the Heat, Celtics, Bucks, and 76ers, all whom I believe the Mavs could win a 7 game series against.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

All I can say is that the current NBA Champs are that stupid. If Cuban can't afford it, then sure. But it would be sad to think that the Mavs are destined to be a franchise where they might catch lightning in a bottle once in a while, but they are not really contenders year-to-year. But if that's the reality, then so be it.

This reply is for all of you that did reply to me...

You need to understand that the "current" champs have won FOUR (4!) of them since 2015. That is an obvious core you throw hundreds of millions at to keep the window open. Last year's Mavs team and certainly not Brunson is NOT what you go deep into the luxury tax for...

I think you all do, as I think we are all pretty smart, above average Mavs fans here. But some are getting caught up in emotions.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Zeus

So is the goal to ensure that Mark is comfortably under the cap in 3 years and makes 150 million per year regardless of team outcome? Why do you care what Mark pays? Perhaps he should take on an ownership group that could help with the actual cash cost of having a supermax player surrounded by a competent cast. If the goal is cost certainty then either sell the team or trade Luka for a bunch of disposable parts that could easily be shed to keep Mark from paying his precious luxury tax... Poor Mark

Why do you think just because he's a billionaire *by net worth* that it's a simple as fuck move to throw away $130 million? Jesus, get out of your emotions people.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

1) Trade Bertans, Powell (expiring), and a FRP for Brogdon. Indy saves money and gets a FRP.

2) Sign GP2 to the TPMLE

3) Sign Bamba on a min deal

Wood/ Bamba
DFS/ Kleber
Bullock/ GP/ Green
THJ/ SD/ Pinson/ Hardy
Luka/ Brogdon/ Frank

Would love it, but I don't think you get Bamba on a min deal. Some team would pay him a bit more, although I guess you could convince him, or maybe Orlando to sign and trade. It's possible, I just don't think at minimum.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Betting odds has us getting Bamba and Oladipo. So glad we can bet on this lol.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by saclare

This reply is for all of you that did reply to me...

You need to understand that the "current" champs have won FOUR (4!) of them since 2015. That is an obvious core you throw hundreds of millions at to keep the window open. Last year's Mavs team and certainly not Brunson is NOT what you go deep into the luxury tax for...

I think you all do, as I think we are all pretty smart, above average Mavs fans here. But some are getting caught up in emotions.

Thank you for calming me down. The fact is that every night I pray to God that Mark Cuban has sufficient money to buy groceries and feed his family. His projected $4.7 Billion net worth, doesn't go far in today's economic landscape with inflation and all.

And it's not so much about JB and what his salary should be, given his abilities. It's the bluster from Cuban that he is not going to let JB go, he will pony up the money, and its really only a matter of does JB want to be a Maverick. And then, you don't even match the offer made by the Knicks? It's a bad look and it makes the Mavs look like they are not serious about building a championship team. Again, I think he should have offered 5 yrs and $125M. JB would have said 'no" (I'm guessing). But at least you did what said you were going to do.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

You know, knowing what Nico did to get Wood and Hardy...wouldn't surprise me if something big was cooking. Maybe it's just stupid optimism, but something doesn't smell quite right.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Betting odds has us getting Bamba and Oladipo. So glad we can bet on this lol.

With only one-6.5million dollar contract to offer, Mavs are leading the odds in Vegas to sign:

Bamba
Oladipo
GP2

I'd be happy with just one of those three, but no way we get all three unless Nico really is magic.

[tap2390]

I'm firmly in the 'paying JB is stupid financially and stupid when considering the long-term health of the franchise' camp.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by saclare

Why do you think just because he's a billionaire *by net worth* that it's a simple as fuck move to throw away $130 million? Jesus, get out of your emotions people.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...l-association/

Mark has made over a half billion dollars in actual operating income (money in his pocket after expenses) since the Championship season. If he has to use a big slug of that over the next few years to broaden a Luka championship potential window, so be it... You call it throwing away I call it showing intent.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You know, knowing what Nico did to get Wood and Hardy...wouldn't surprise me if something big was cooking. Maybe it's just stupid optimism, but something doesn't smell quite right.

I kinda get that feeling too, but I'm also worried it's just me being a stupid homer.

I'm not in love with Brunson's game. Never have been. So I'm really not upset at the though of losing him alone. It's the thought of losing him and not replacing his production. If the Mavs can find another decent ball-handling guard, then I've got no problem.

[EricaLubarsky]

I love the idea of offering JB 28mill just to make the Knicks suffer

[saclare]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Thank you for calming me down. The fact is that every night I pray to God that Mark Cuban has sufficient money to buy groceries and feed his family. His projected $4.7 Billion net worth, doesn't go far in today's economic landscape with inflation and all.

And it's not so much about JB and what his salary should be, given his abilities. It's the bluster from Cuban that he is not going to let JB go, he will pony up the money, and its really only a matter of does JB want to be a Maverick. And then, you don't even match the offer made by the Knicks? It's a bad look and it makes the Mavs look like they are not serious about building a championship team. Again, I think he should have offered 5 yrs and $125M. JB would have said 'no" (I'm guessing). But at least you did what said you were going to do.

Sigh, yea, it's totally financially responsible to just throw away $130MM in the first year of the deal that "supposedly" would get it done. For all we know, maybe they did up their offer and JB was always set on going to the Knicks. A lot of assumptions up in here, and I get it. So many are getting riled up over this is mindboggling.

I'm with you that if they had the indication that Cato presented, they should have been working on SNT and getting something back in return. That and not reupping Brunson when it would have been cheaper is all on the Mavs, Cuban and the FO. But then again, all we have to go by is Brunson's dad's word there, and I can give two shits worth of credit to that given how this has played out. We only have sources and "reports" of what we may have offered Brunson, none of which we can hang our hat on. But I guess it's all we have to discuss, so again, I get it.

In the end, fuck Brunson's dad and the Rose's.

[saclare]

Originally Posted by Zeus

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...l-association/

Mark has made over a half billion dollars in actual operating income (money in his pocket after expenses) since the Championship season. If he has to use a big slug of that over the next few years to broaden a Luka championship potential window, so be it... You call it throwing away I call it showing intent.

Fair enough. I call throwing that kind of money all for Brunson as throwing it away. We can agree to disagree, it's ok as it's a forum after all.

[saclare]

Wild ass, out of left field scenario, but one I have to ask smarter people...

Since Beal opted out, he's free to sign a 4 year max deal with any other team with the Wiz able to go 5 (and super?)

Any way in hell Nico could clear enough space? I think highly doubtful, but salivating to think on...

[purplefrog]

Not offering JB comparable money to the Knicks, feels like Steve Nash and Tyson Chandler all over again. Maybe the details are much different, but if feels the same. The only remaining common factor in all of these transactions (or lack thereof) is Cuban. And that makes me think that this type of thinking and action/inaction will likely continue. I hope not. Losing JB's contribution will hurt, but theoretically he can be replaced. Cuban only willing to pay/overpay superstars and not important secondary players is still a problem. I just don't think you have that luxury in the NBA. It is important to keep the players that are key in a winning season. Not let them walk for nothing.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Looks like a three way bidding war between the Wolves, Knicks, and Hawks for Murray per Stein.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by saclare

Wild ass, out of left field scenario, but one I have to ask smarter people...

Since Beal opted out, he's free to sign a 4 year max deal with any other team with the Wiz able to go 5 (and super?)

Any way in hell Nico could clear enough space? I think highly doubtful, but salivating to think on...

I'm salivating at the though of Hardy being a Beal/Lillardesque player in a couple of years. But that's also highly doubtful.

[EricaLubarsky]

@wojespn
? 1m
The Atlanta Hawks are trading Danilo Gallinari and multiple first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs for All-Star guard Dejounte Murray, sources tell ESPN.

Guess the Knicks aren't going to be the Brunson/Murray/Randle superteam that they thought they were

[EricaLubarsky]

Donte DiVencenzo is about to become an UFA

[BPo001]

Crazy thought, but what if the Knicks shift their focus on a max deal to Beal and for some reason he accepts it.

[purplefrog]

Bobby Portis about to become UFA.

[BPo001]

NBA Central: ?[The Suns] believe that they could find a number of other centers who can give them the type of production that Deandre Ayton can.? 😳 ? ESPN?s Brian Windhorst (h/t @The Jump ) pic.twitter.com/qJReKLQK7Y ? via Twitter TheNBACentral

[EricaLubarsky]

Despite only 6.5mill to use, the Mavs are now favored in Vegas to sign:

Looney
Oladipo
Bamba
GP2

Crazy

[tap2390]

In my opinion this is a completely different scenario than not bringing back the 2011 squad. That was a championship caliber squad full of savvy veterans who fit well together. Right now we are discussing paying our secondary initiator like a primary initiator on a squad that already has the best primary initiator in the league on a super max deal.

Beyond the money and commitment, we can?t offer JB a team where his dad is a coach and the GM is a family friend and he gets to be the guy. This isn?t about Cuban?s pocketbook regardless of what bullshit numbers JB?s dad is throwing out there to reporters about Nico?s ?walk away? price.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

@wojespn
? 1m
The Atlanta Hawks are trading Danilo Gallinari and multiple first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs for All-Star guard Dejounte Murray, sources tell ESPN.

Guess the Knicks aren't going to be the Brunson/Murray/Randle superteam that they thought they were

I still don't get Brunson wanting to be "the man" while being cool with teaming up with Murray anyway. Made no sense unless he just didn't like Luka.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I still don't get Brunson wanting to be "the man" while being cool with teaming up with Murray anyway. Made no sense unless he just didn't like Luka.

There doesn't seem to have been a personal issue between them, at least nothing that's been reported. What I have seen though are reports of Brunson's "camp" thinking that he would never fulfill his true potential playing next to "the most ball-dominant player in the league." And I've also seen reports saying that there were "hard feelings" over the Mavs not giving him the extension he wanted. Zach Lowe said that Brunson wanted the Mavs to "outbid" the Knicks, and that execs Lowe spoke to said "if the Knicks offer $25 mil, the Mavs should offer 30."

It sounds like it's a combination of things. I think the biggest factor of all though and the only one that really matters is that the Knicks clearly want him a lot more than the Mavs do. If the Mavs wanted to keep him that badly, they could. But they have their "walkaway price," at 22 million.

Again, I'm not in love with Brunson's game, but there are two really inexcusable failures here by the Mavs. #1- not giving him the extension early on, enabling the Mavs to keep him at a mere fraction of what he costs now, and #2, not working a S&T with the Knicks once it became clear the the Knicks were willing to pay more than the Mavs were.

Losing him is one thing. Losing him for nothing is another.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

There doesn't seem to have been a personal issue between them, at least nothing that's been reported. What I have seen though are reports of Brunson's "camp" thinking that he would never fulfill his true potential playing next to "the most ball-dominant player in the league." And I've also seen reports saying that there were "hard feelings" over the Mavs not giving him the extension he wanted. Zach Lowe said that Brunson wanted the Mavs to "outbid" the Knicks, and that execs Lowe spoke to said "if the Knicks offer $25 mil, the Mavs should offer 30."

It sounds like it's a combination of things. I think the biggest factor of all though and the only one that really matters is that the Knicks clearly want him a lot more than the Mavs do. If the Mavs wanted to keep him that badly, they could. But they have their "walkaway price," at 22 million.

Again, I'm not in love with Brunson's game, but there are two really inexcusable failures here by the Mavs. #1- not giving him the extension early on, enabling the Mavs to keep him at a mere fraction of what he costs now, and #2, not working a S&T with the Knicks once it became clear the the Knicks were willing to pay more than the Mavs were.

Losing him is one thing. Losing him for nothing is another.

I don't get what the motivation for the Knicks giving us value would be?

Why would the Knicks give us talent/picks for a guy they could just sign for free?

[EricaLubarsky]

Patty Mills is now an UFA

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I don't get what the motivation for the Knicks giving us value would be?

Why would the Knicks give us talent/picks for a guy they could just sign for free?

Well NOW they don't have any incentive, because they cleared the cap space to sign him outright. But they had to trade multiple players to do that. They traded Noel and Burks to Detroit just to clear the cap space. I don't know what the conversations were like behind closed doors, but common sense tells me if the Mavs wanted to facilitate this, they could have. Burks and Noel would have been a fine return for Brunson. I would have been happy with that.

[purplefrog]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Well NOW they don't have any incentive, because they cleared the cap space to sign him outright. But they had to trade multiple players to do that. They traded Noel and Burks to Detroit just to clear the cap space. I don't know what the conversations were like behind closed doors, but common sense tells me if the Mavs wanted to facilitate this, they could have. Burks and Noel would have been a fine return for Brunson. I would have been happy with that.

Yup. Especially if the reports that the Mavs knew JB was likely departing for the Knicks two weeks ago. If that is true, then you either have to up the ante to your offer or look for a SnT. I am just not sure what to make of all this. Again, feels like old times.

[BPo001]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

@wojespn
? 1m
The Atlanta Hawks are trading Danilo Gallinari and multiple first-round picks to the San Antonio Spurs for All-Star guard Dejounte Murray, sources tell ESPN.

Guess the Knicks aren't going to be the Brunson/Murray/Randle superteam that they thought they were

Pretty good haul for the Spurs considering they drafted Murray with the 29th pick. That franchise is going to struggle until they draft their big star. Once Pop retires there isn?t much appeal to playing there from a FA standpoint.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Yup. Especially if the reports that the Mavs knew JB was likely departing for the Knicks two weeks ago. If that is true, then you either have to up the ante to your offer or look for a SnT. I am just not sure what to make of all this. Again, feels like old times.

Precisely. It feels like the Mavs were indecisive here. Like, they thought they could maybe re-sign him a the price they wanted, so they waited, and then were caught with their pants down when the Knicks went all-out. That's just my impression.

They should have decided very early on to either keep him at all costs, or get something for him. If they wanted facilitate a sign and trade with the Knicks, I think they could have done it easily. But they waited until the Knicks got what they needed elsewhere, and now we get nothing.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Ha the Heat! I called this sh**.

The Miami Heat are a dark horse in the Jalen Brunson sweepstakes, per
@ChrisBHaynes

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/st...69661437370373