The"Crap, it didn't happen..but it was awesome to think of" thread

[mavs777]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...medium=twitter

Orlando PR man Joel Glass calls to inform that D. Howard’s agent now has permission to speak w/ Lakers, Nets, & Mavs about possible trade.

Glass was clear that this permission was from here “going forward,” not previously.

[nowhereman]

It's not going to happen but it's awesome to think of

[twelli]

What would it take. Dirk?

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by twelli

What would it take. Dirk?

No, even if we would decide to trade Dirk (we never would, obviously) we'd probably first have to trade him for young players, and picks. We really don't have ANYTHING the Magic would want. We don't have a single valuable trade chip at the moment.

[nowhereman]

Are you asking Dirk what it would take?

Because he'd tell you: it's not going to happen, but it's awesome to think of

[OneLove22]

Somehow though we are still in the discussion and they granted Dwight to speak with us.

Is a 3 team trade possible (NY?) ? Who could we possibly trade?

I would guess the Magic want Howard out of the East though so they would prefer us or LA over the Nets.

[Zki41]

Forgive me because I am not too familiar with the rules, but would it be possible to use our trade exception from Chandler + picks + roddy/jones/brewer/mahinmi to acquire Dwight?

[Budapest Maverick]

I think it would be possible, but since Chandler is New-York bound... On a second thought about the trade... We could eat up all of their terrible contracts, and give them a huge TPE, plus Roddy and draft picks (not really great draft picks though). It's maybe not totally impossible.

[aexchange]

Any deal for Howard starts with some combination of Terry, Roddy B, Fernandez, and draft picks for Howard and a trade exception going to Orlando for Hedo.

This is the most likely deal as it gives Orlando the most cap space and allows them to free themselves of a terrible contract in Hedo. Don't see much chance in this happening, but one can dream.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by aexchange

Any deal for Howard starts with some combination of Terry, Roddy B, Fernandez, and draft picks for Howard and a trade exception going to Orlando for Hedo.

This is the most likely deal as it gives Orlando the most cap space and allows them to free themselves of a terrible contract in Hedo. Don't see much chance in this happening, but one can dream.

I think saying you don't see much chance is being generous because I see zero chance to be honest. If you let Tyson Chandler walk because you think overpaying him $3 million/year kills your financial flexibility, why does overpaying Turkoglu $5 million-$6 million a year in order to land Howard make sense? Because these 6 players alone are going to cost you $65 million next year (and that's being conservative and assuming Howard only resigns for $20 million):

-Dirk
-Howard
-Turkoglu
-Marion
-Brewer
-Dojo

That's after amnestying Haywood, trading Roddy, trading/not extending a qualifying a offer to Rudy, trady/not re-signing JET, not re-signing Kidd, and not re-signing Mahinmi.

That puts you at $65 million already, and we haven't even gotten to the point where we are filling the rest of the roster. Brandan Wright has a team option that I think floats around $1 million, which I think you would be stupid not to take at that point. It sounds like Carter has a multi-year deal, but I'm not sure what it will be for so he'd probably be on your roster at that point, but I'm not going to speculate at what price. So seems to me like you are going to be stuck handing out minimum contracts after those 8 guys.

Are we ready to go to war with that?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I think saying you don't see much chance is being generous because I see zero chance to be honest. If you let Tyson Chandler walk because you think overpaying him $3 million/year kills your financial flexibility, why does overpaying Turkoglu $5 million-$6 million a year in order to land Howard make sense? Because these 6 players alone are going to cost you $65 million next year (and that's being conservative and assuming Howard only resigns for $20 million):

-Dirk
-Howard
-Turkoglu
-Marion
-Brewer
-Dominique

That's after amnestying Haywood, trading Roddy, trading/not extending a qualifying a offer to Rudy, trady/not re-signing JET, not re-signing Kidd, and not re-signing Mahinmi.

That puts you at $65 million already, and we haven't even gotten to the point where we are filling the rest of the roster. Brandan Wright has a team option that I think floats around $1 million, which I think you would be stupid not to take at that point. It sounds like Carter has a multi-year deal, but I'm not sure what it will be for so he'd probably be on your roster at that point, but I'm not going to speculate at what price. So seems to me like you are going to be stuck handing out minimum contracts after those 8 guys.

Are we ready to go to war with that?

????

Dude if you have a chance to add a top five player in the NBA (and many, MANY people would argue the 2nd best player), you do it.

Why would you not re-sign Kidd or anyone else that's not traded?

You'd basically plug Howard and Turkoglu into whatever is left on your roster and you do freaking backflips of joy.

The line of veterans to play with Dwight and Dirk would be a mile long. You're talking about one of the greatest front court pairings in the history of the NBA.

I'm very confused by your stance here.

[Jon Avalon]

Originally Posted by jthig32

The line of veterans to play with Dwight and Dirk would be a mile long. You're talking about one of the greatest front court pairings in the history of the NBA.
.

^^ BINGO!

I want to see Dwight and Dirk paired up! Come on Cubes DO IT! Whatever it takes!

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by jthig32

????

Dude if you have a chance to add a top five player in the NBA (and many, MANY people would argue the 2nd best player), you do it.

Why would you not re-sign Kidd or anyone else that's not traded?

You'd basically plug Howard and Turkoglu into whatever is left on your roster and you do freaking backflips of joy.

The line of veterans to play with Dwight and Dirk would be a mile long. You're talking about one of the greatest front court pairings in the history of the NBA.

I'm very confused.

How does it make sense if you can't build a roster around it? For example, how is that going to put you above the Heat, who if we want to play the fantasy basketball game you've seem to prey to, already have 2 of the best 3 players in the NBA, and a much better 3rd player than you're going to hope to find with that roster already hamstrung financially?

Is Kidd coming back for a veteran minimum? Because he's making 8 million/year on his current deal, and I don't see why I should automatically assume he would go all the way to a $1 million contract (otherwise I would have put him in there, but the whole purpose of that previous post was to strip the roster to the bare minimum and see where that left you in terms of the cap).

And why are all the veterans lining up to play with Dirk and Howard, and not Wade and Lebron? Or Paul and Kobe? Or Amare, Melo, and Chandler? Or whatever the next "Super Team" is that gets assembled? Or maybe that just want to play for a team like the Thunder? The assumption that we get our pick of the "cheap veteran" litter is an extremely tenuous one at best.

I never said I'd turn down this deal (because I wouldn't due to the seeming lack of better options at this point), I'm just saying I don't really see it putting us over the top and like you argued in the Chandler thread, it's going to kill your chances to improve much beyond that because you're financially tied down. And you're going to be much moreso than you ever would be paying $15 mil/year for Chandler.

And this is all pinning on our hopes on the very, very long shot that Orlando accepts that deal. And let's be honest here, they're going to get offered better deals. I can't see why this deal makes more sense than a straight up trade for Andrew Bynum.

So again we're pinning our odds on a very, very long shot that doesn't quite seem to put us over the top.

[BGMaverick9]

Even if the Howard angle doesn't work out, they'll be able to have some pretty good flexibility with that TPE...it could land some nice stuff.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

How does it make sense if you can't build a roster around it? For example, how is that going to put you above the Heat, who if we want to play the fantasy basketball game you've seem to prey to, already have 2 of the best 3 players in the NBA, and a much better 3rd player than you're going to hope to find with that roster already hamstrung financially?

Is Kidd coming back for a veteran minimum? Because he's making 8 million/year on his current deal, and I don't see why I should automatically assume he would go all the way to a $1 million contract (otherwise I would have put him in there, but the whole purpose of that previous post was to strip the roster to the bare minimum and see where that left you in terms of the cap).

And why are all the veterans lining up to play with Dirk and Howard, and not Wade and Lebron? Or Paul and Kobe? Or Amare, Melo, and Chandler? Or whatever the next "Super Team" is that gets assembled? Or maybe that just want to play for a team like the Thunder. The assumption that we get our pick of the "cheap veteran" litter is a tenuous one.

I never said I'd turn down this deal (because I wouldn't due to the seeming lack of better options at this point), I'm just saying I don't really see it putting us over the top and like you argued in the Chandler thread, it's going to kill your chances to improve much beyond that because you're financially tied down. And you're going to be much moreso than you ever would be paying $15 mil/year for Chandler.

And this is all pinning on our hopes on the very, very long shot that Orlando accepts that deal. And let's be honest here, they're going to get offered better deals. I can't see why this deal makes more sense than a straight up trade for Andrew Bynum.

So again we're pinning our odds on a very, very long shot that doesn't quite seem to put us over the top.

First of all, we're not "pinning our odds" on anything.

Secondly, no one is disputing the unlikeliness of this happening.

Third, I think you're missing a few points.

1. I was worried about being financially tied down because of Chandler. I'll take the opportunity to be tied down with Dwight Howard any time you want. If you have Dwight Howard, you've accomplished what you needed the financial flexibility for. Now you need complimentary pieces, which are easier to obtain.

2. Why are you trying to strip the roster? If you have Dwight Howard you want to retain Kidd. You have bird rights on him, give him what he wants. The point of possibly stripping the roster is to lure a superstar. If you HAVE the super star, no need to strip anything.

You wanted us to retain Chandler because you wanted us to stay competitive, and yet you're not sure how you'd feel about us adding Howard to this mix? I'm again very confused.

[jthig32]

This is why we should all hope that the Lakers trade for Chris Paul. It takes our tiny chances and makes them a tiny bit better.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by jthig32

This is why we should all hope that the Lakers trade for Chris Paul. It takes our tiny chances and makes them a tiny bit better.

Although, the Paul trade in its original form would have given LA a huge trade exception as well. Unless the rumors of Okafor going to LA were true.

Let's hope the reworked deal includes more salary going back to LA.

And let's hope NJ signs Nene.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Although, the Paul trade in its original form would have given LA a huge trade exception as well. Unless the rumors of Okafor going to LA were true.

Let's hope the reworked deal includes more salary going back to LA.

And let's hope NJ signs Nene.

And i hope its not Okafor going back! he has 3/40 left but for me he is with Dwight and Chandler the best defensive center in the league. With Paul/Bryant he is probably even a better fit than Bynum...

So the Lakers would just slightly downgrade center.

I hope its Ariza the Lakers have to take back and Okafor stays in NO, sometjhing like that:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=88vvtu7

The Hornets can choose to keep Martin/Okafor/Bynum or trade them with their two year contracts...

[deamon]

LAL wants Paul and Howard.

[BGMaverick9]

Fegan does have clients that are currently on the Mavs or have passed through, so the organization should have a pretty good connection with him. I'm not saying that puts them right at the top of the list, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

[EricaLubarsky]

A front court of Howard, dirk and Marion is a scary-good lineup. Prib not going to happen but it's exciting to think about. I'd prefer a pg but Howard and dirk may help draw top tier talent next year afte Kidd retires.

If he demands a trade or promises to walk next year I imagine Orlando would look to get as much value as possible. We have picks, a lot of TPE and a couple of decent youngins. Other than low 1st rounders, cash and TPE savings we don't have much but maybe enough

[EricaLubarsky]

Howard
Nene
Okafor

Some quality bigs that may be available and we can always waive Haywood too so we don't have to worry about 30mill for two centers. Lots of flexibility, just not a lot of trade value. Our firsts aren't lottery, and not a lot of young talent, but we have a wily owner

[deamon]

There is Howard as best at C, and far, far, far behind him someone at the 2nd place at C in this league.
Howard-Nowitzki, DO IT!

[sefant77]

Looks like the Nets raised the Nene offer to 4/64...

They couldnt take a Dwight/Hedo combo in a trade anymore. And they wouldnt have cap for Dwight next summer...

[dalger]

The moves that we're talking about right now (TPE for Tyson, Nene to NJ, Paul to LA) could indeed put us in a much better situation to land Howard.

As an aside, we've just come out of a lockout and already see owners throw $15+ million at guys like Chandler and Nene for multi-year contracts...

[EricaLubarsky]

Howard, dirk and Marion wouldn't just be "nice"-- they'd be the best frontcourt in nba history.

[CapitanObvious]

Not gonna happen. (But secretly hoping it would)

[sefant77]

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Mavs' first swipe, I'm told, will be trying to do S-and-T w/Sacramento for Dalembert by using big trade exception from Tyson Chandler deal

I hope just after Dwight&Hedo failed...

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Mavs' first swipe, I'm told, will be trying to do S-and-T w/Sacramento for Dalembert by using big trade exception from Tyson Chandler deal

I hope just after Dwight&Hedo failed...

Ewwww dalembert is trash

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Mavs' first swipe, I'm told, will be trying to do S-and-T w/Sacramento for Dalembert by using big trade exception from Tyson Chandler deal

I hope just after Dwight&Hedo failed...

Ok...now this...this I don't understand.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ok...now this...this I don't understand.

Agreed. In part because I've seen reports that the Kings renounced Dalembert, and in part because, even though Dalembert was the first place my mind went when news started to break about Tyson, I'd pretty much accepted that they weren't going to go that direction.

Of course, it really depends on what the contract terms ended up being. Maybe the market only really had an appetite for TC, Nene and Gasol with a little bit of Jordan mixed in, and the going prices for guys like Daly turn out to be more reasonable?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Agreed. In part because I've seen reports that the Kings renounced Dalembert, and in part because, even though Dalembert was the first place my mind went when news started to break about Tyson, I'd pretty much accepted that they weren't going to go that direction.

Of course, it really depends on what the contract terms ended up being. Maybe the market only really had an appetite for TC, Nene and Gasol with a little bit of Jordan mixed in, and the going prices for guys like Daly turn out to be more reasonable?

They're way under the cap so them renouncing him doesn't really make much difference.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by jthig32

They're way under the cap so them renouncing him doesn't really make much difference.

I'd been assuming they needed to renounce to clear space for some other things they'd done/were doing, else why renounce, but then again, I haven't been following their moves too closely, and they definitely had a lot of cap space. I've pretty much been keeping an eye on Daly and that's it. At any rate, the later reports about the one-year try clear things up. If you don't think the TPE is going to help you land Howard, and you don't mind paying the LT, a mercenary Dalembert is a good get for this team as far as I'm concerned.

[Bayliss]

Dalembert has sh*t for brains. Stats may be similar to Tyson Chandler's but Dalembert cannot be relied on.... he has one of the lowest bball IQs in the league.

Please don't sign Dalembert.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Dalembert has sh*t for brains. Stats may be similar to Tyson Chandler's but Dalembert cannot be relied on.... he has one of the lowest bball IQs in the league.

Please don't sign Dalembert.

Stein says the goal is for it to be a one year contract.

[PartywithDirk]

I guess the thinking is get Dalembert for a year and clear the cap space for Dwight as FA in 2012? If he ever gets to that point?

[jthig32]

Here's the explanation:

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Trade exception alone was never going to get Mavs back into Dwight Sweepstakes. Only chance is if Dwight chose Dallas in 2012 free agency

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
If Mavs can get Dalembert on one-year deal, they have replacement for Chandler this season and cap space for 2012 free agency as top bidder

Signing Howard via free agency makes the scenario I laid out with Fin a lot more complicated. But as has been pointed out so often, trading for Howard is damn near impossible.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Here's the explanation:





Signing Howard via free agency makes the scenario I laid out with Fin a lot more complicated. But as has been pointed out so often, trading for Howard is damn near impossible.

Your situation makes some sense laid out above if it came to fruition. Although I don't see the Haywood trade happening unless it happened as part of some three team team (a la the Paul deal that got vetoed). Otherwise, it seems a bit risky to trade your center in hopes that you have the assets to get Howard, and I certainly wouldn't trust Otis Smith not to backstab us if you are suggesting an under-the-table deal here.

I like Stein's scenario better, to be honest. I don't know what the odds are that Dwight makes it to free agency though. Does he get traded and sign an extension before that ever happens? I guess we have to hope that Dwight doesn't push for a trade too hard and at least gives the Magic a reason to believe they've got a shot at luring him back. Otherwise, I don't see why the Magic wouldn't just go for a Howard for Bynum deal in an attempt to salvage some value. That's the problem with the Stein scenario. Then you're pretty much stuck chasing Deron Williams (I still have to believe that the NBA comes to its senses and lets the Paul deal happen).

[EricaLubarsky]

Why can't we just sign dalembert for vet min? Why snt part of our TPE?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Why can't we just sign dalembert for vet min? Why snt part of our TPE?

Why the hell would he sign for vet min?