GDT: game 69 - Mavs @ Suns 8PM

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by FollowedKPtodallas

Hardaway has had a nice run here but you will get absolutely nowhere in the playoffs if he is a starter for you or even a rotation piece. He is the streakiest shooter in the league. And for guy who is supposedly athletic he is an a turnstile with very little effort on D.

While true....Hardaway isn't the issue here.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

While true....Hardaway isn't the issue here.

By himself he's not the issue. The fact that he's probably our third best player though? THAT is definitely the issue.

[Dtownsfinest]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

By himself he's not the issue. The fact that he's probably our third best player though? THAT is definitely the issue.

I mean maybe....not many teams have their two best players the caliber of KP and Luka. Ideally, you'd want a better 3rd scorer but on any other team I feel like most teams would get more out of their stars or than Hardaway. If Lakers had Hardaway as their 3rd best player would it be a issue?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I mean maybe....not many teams have their two best players the caliber of KP and Luka.

Title contenders definitely do. Teams that are poised to make deep runs into the playoffs definitely do. Two guys just isn't enough. It's enough to get into the playoffs, but not past the first round.

Ideally, you'd want a better 3rd scorer but on any other team I feel like most teams would get more out of their stars or than Hardaway.

Are you saying that the Mavs aren't getting enough from Luka and KP, and that THAT is the problem, rather than the rest of the roster around them? Because I couldn't disagree more. Luka has had a few bad plays here and there, but he's putting up his usual god-tier numbers, and KP has been absolutely fantastic these two games.

If Lakers had Hardaway as their 3rd best player would it be a issue?

Seriously? Yes, it would be a HUGE problem. Not only would they not be favorites to win the championship, they'd be underdogs in the first round... like the Mavs.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

But how in the hell are the Suns more experienced though?

They aren't. Inexperienced teams lose to other inexperienced teams all the time. Not sure why this game would surprise anyone after the Rockets game.

Mavs have a lot of talent that doesn't fit because they panicked signing ill-fitting players this offseason after they were somehow caught off guard. The failures of the offseason have reared their ugly head more than once this season.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Glass half full is that Luka and KP really are a juggernaut duo. We forget that injuries have prevented them from fully meshing.

[Rokaldo]

Just fire Carlisle already and get someone at least half competent

[dirt_dobber]

3 pointers ugh...
6 of 31 attempts for 19.4% won't get it done.

[FollowedKPtodallas]

Originally Posted by Rokaldo

Just fire Carlisle already and get someone at least half competent

No

[FollowedKPtodallas]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

3 pointers ugh...
6 of 31 attempts for 19.4% won't get it done.

and if you take out seth and KP they were 1/20.

I know if I were guarding Luka I would breathe a sigh of relief when he does his stepback 3. ...Im not saying he shouldn't take them but I think it's 2x too much.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Yes. Yes they are

You've got a bunch of nice bench pieces but no impact starters outside Luka and KP

They are also dealing with some injuries. Powell and Brunson were important pieces, and guys are having to play roles that are a bit above their capability right now.

THJ is a capable player. Would we prefer to have someone else as the 3rd best player on the team? Yes. I think he'd be just fine if the other 2 starters were better.

The lack of 2-way players is always a barrier to greatness.

[MFFL]

Good to see you KG!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Mavs have a lot of talent

Do they really though? Outside of Luka and KP, I see a lot of scrubs who wouldn't crack the rotation for Lakers, Clippers, or Bucks.

that doesn't fit because they panicked signing ill-fitting players this offseason after they were somehow caught off guard. The failures of the offseason have reared their ugly head more than once this season.

Do you really think it's a problem of fit, rather than just lack of talent? Like seriously, who, outide of Luka and KP, do you think is particularly talented? THJ was nothing more than one of the worst contracts in the league that the Mavs had to take back in the KP deal. The fact that Carlisle has actually turned him into a moderately productive player we have some positive feelings about is a testament to his coaching ability. Seth is an elite 3 point shooter, but he's terrible at everything else. Neither THJ nor Seth would even be the first option off the bench for a title contender. They'd be 7th or 8th men at best.

Everyone else are practically d-leaguers as far as I'm concerned.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Do they really though? Outside of Luka and KP, I see a lot of scrubs who wouldn't crack the rotation for Lakers, Clippers, or Bucks.



Do you really think it's a problem of fit, rather than just lack of talent? Like seriously, who, outide of Luka and KP, do you think is particularly talented? THJ was nothing more than one of the worst contracts in the league that the Mavs had to take back in the KP deal. The fact that Carlisle has actually turned him into a moderately productive player we have some positive feelings about is a testament to his coaching ability. Seth is an elite 3 point shooter, but he's terrible at everything else. Neither THJ nor Seth would even be the first option off the bench for a title contender. They'd be 7th or 8th men at best.

Everyone else are practically d-leaguers as far as I'm concerned.

I mean, we're one of the historically best offenses in NBA history, so yeah, there is talent. But obviously, lack of veterans, ball handlers, and defense have been a detriment.

It's just that there is a large gap between Luka/KP and the rest of the team.

What's puzzling is how many of our non-Luka/KP guys can have big games, or even big stretches, then just fall so damn flat. Even Maxi is one of those guys. He can look amazeballs and then just vanish. That seems to be a trend with too many of our players.

[turin]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I mean, we're one of the historically best offenses in NBA history, so yeah, there is talent. But obviously, lack of veterans, ball handlers, and defense have been a detriment.

It's just that there is a large gap between Luka/KP and the rest of the team.

What's puzzling is how many of our non-Luka/KP guys can have big games, or even big stretches, then just fall so damn flat. Even Maxi is one of those guys. He can look amazeballs and then just vanish. That seems to be a trend with too many of our players.

EDITED to eliminate straw man argument. Nobody gets sarcasm anymore. LOL

The whining about lack of talent has become comical. The problem is COACHING. How much talent do the Mavs have to have before he is held more accountable? He does have 2 all-NBA caliber talents, regardless of whether or not they got the accolades, and they both have HOF potential imo. There are plenty of other legitimate NBA players with useful SKILLSETS which, when put together properly should yield a team greater than the sum of its parts. This is most certainly NOT the current state of the Mavs, and the coach has to shoulder full responsibility.

We have been undersized in the middle almost all season, yet WCS, who we traded for, can't get meaningful minutes, and we'll end up losing him. WTH? Stupid. I'm not going to go on a Boban rant again, but he plugs the size deficit. The coaching staff is trying to cram square pegs into round holes in their system, and they either don't know what else to do or are just too damn stubborn, regardless of the number of blown games. This is not the first time there have been issues with poor utilization of an existing roster. Hell, during the Mavs' championship run almost 10 years ago, it was the PLAYERS themselves who had to go to Carlisle to get him to make the most effective changes that were made all season. Remember how they had to talk RC into Stephenson?

Since so many people seem to think we have so many trash players, answer me this. How is it that we have such a historic, all-time great offense? You'd think that after a while of watching an historic, all-time great offense composed of trash players lose over and over, one might realize there may be a disconnect between the stats and the efficacy of the team. Nah, not possible. cuz STATS! SMH

This would never happen, but since the same garbage over and over has yielded the same pathetic, dispiriting melt-down losses, I'd jettison the whole damn flow offense. Instead, I'd build my team around the talents of the 2 studs we have and implement a system that takes advantage of their actual on-court talents instead of some hypothetical mathematical optimum type of play which this team has proven time and again that it can't implement. I'd run KP and Boban as bigs closer to the baseline than post, one on each side, and play inside out with them on offense. Dump it down, they make a move to the basket, got to the middle, pass out for a 3. Hell, KP is skillied enough imo to be the offensive facilitator similar to how Denver runs their offense, and before everybody starts whining about what KP CAN'T do, well, I'll tie my wagon to one of the top 10 players in the league and look for him to lead and transform our offense instead of waiting around for Brunson and Powell to come back and save us. LOL Defense? One word: ZONE.

Sheesh. The stupidity is mind-boggling, but hey, what do I know. All I can do is vote with my eyes and dollars, and right now, there are much better things to do with my time. The Mavs are practically basketballs' Cowboys 2.0. :-( Very sad.

Edit: I'm always amazed how our trash scrubs just aren't good enough for the Mavs, but are able to play an impactful amount of minutes on other teams. e.g. McGhee, Mezhri come to mind. WCS? He never got a chance, but I would've loved to have him in Dallas on a 3-year deal with a coach who has an appreciation for size in the paint. SMH But, hey, they went out and got MKG after Powell went down, and he can play some 5! LOL And for those of you who who say that it doesn't matter because the Mavs don't have the talent to contend for a title this year, then fine. Instead of wasting my time watching this train wreck of coaching blunders, let me know when we're title ready, and maybe I'll tune back in. It sure will save me a lot of time and aggravation. :-/ I just hope they don't screw around and and Dirk with Luka and KP as they come into their prime. What a waste that would be. Mark my words, not much is going to change until either RC changes his philosophy or there is a new coach. My money is on a new coach. RC has reached the pinnacle as both a coach and a player, and he's been around a long time. I just don't see him changing.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

The whining about lack of talent has become comical. The problem is COACHING. Boo hoo, RC doesn't have 3 HOF + 2 all-star starters. Nobody else does either. GS came pretty close a few years ago as well as Miami, but that's about it. He does have 2 all-star players, regardless of whether or not they got the accolades, and they both have HOF potential. There are plenty of other legitimate NBA players with useful SKILLSETS which, when put together properly should yield a team greater than the sum of its parts. This is most certainly NOT the current state of the Mavs, and the coach has to shoulder full responsibility.

We have been undersized in the middle almost all season, yet WCS, who we traded for, can't get meaningful minutes, and we'll end up losing him. WTH? Stupid. I'm not going to go on a Boban rant again, but he plugs the size deficit. The coaching staff is trying to cram square pegs into round holes in their system, and they either don't know what else to do or are just too damn stubborn, regardless of the number of blown games
. This is not the first time there have been issues with poor utilizations of existing roster. Hell, during the Mavs' championship run almost 10 years ago, it was the PLAYERS themselves who had to go to Carlisle to get him to make the most effective changes that were made all season. Remember how they had to talk RC into Stephenson?

Since so many people seem to think that we has so many trash players, answer me this. How is it that we has such a historic, all-time great offense? You'd think that after a while of watching an historic, all-time great offense composed of trash players lose over and over, one might realize there may be a disconnect between the stats and the efficacy of the team. Nah, not possible. cuz STATS! SMH

This would never happen, but since the same garbage over and over has yielded the same pathetic, dispiriting melt-down losses, I'd jettison the whole damn flow offense. Instead, I'd build my team around the talents of the 2 studs we have and implement a system that takes advantage of their actual on-court talents instead of some hypothetical mathematical optimum type of play which this team has proven time and again that it can't implement. I'd run KP and Boban as bigs closer to the baseline than post, one on each side, and play inside out with them on offense. Dump it down, they make a move to the basket, got to the middle, pass out for a 3. Hell, KP is skillied enough imo to be the offensive facilitator similar to how Denver runs their offense, and before everybody starts whining about what KP CAN'T do, well, I'll tie my wagon to one of the top 10 players in the league and look for him to lead and transform our offense instead of waiting around for Brunson and Powell to come back and save us. LOL

Sheesh. The stupidity is mind-boggling, but hey, what do I know. All I can do is vote with my eyes and dollars, and right now, there are much better things to do with my time. The Mavs are practically basketballs' Cowboys 2.0. :-( Very sad.

Edit: I'm always amazed how our trash scrubs just aren't good enough for the Mavs, but are able to play an impactful amount of minutes on other teams. e.g. McGhee, Mezhri come to mind. WCS? He never got a chance, but I would've loved to have him in Dallas on a 3-year deal with a coach who has an appreciation for size in the paint. SMH But, hey, they went out and got MKG after Powell went down, and he can play some 5! LOL

And you really think coaching has nothing to do with this all-time great offense? Seriously? You really think we have some kind of great roster, and we'd be so much better if not for our idiot coach holding them back?

Let me ask you, who is our absolute best defensive player? Hell, who on this entire roster is even an average defensive player? Who outside of Luka is an even an average playmaker/ball handler?

You seriously think we'd be significantly better if only we played Boban more? Or if only RC gave WCS a chance?

What round pegs is RC trying to fit into what square holes? What player on this roster right now is being asked to do things they can't do? Whose skillset exactly is being wasted?

If players like Boban or WCS are the difference between success and failure, then you were never going to succeed in the first place.

I see the exact opposite of what you see. I see two stars with very limited talent around them. The efficiency of the offense is the result of RC getting the best he can out of what he has- it's a perfect "modern" offense. You have a transcendent superstar in Luka, and surround him with 3 point shooters. That's the one thing the Mavs do very well- shoot threes. It's standard pace-and-space. I don't think RC has been perfect by any means, but seriously, the idea that this is some kind of great roster primed for playoff success if not for our boneheaded coach? THAT is comical.

Boo hoo, RC doesn't have 3 HOF + 2 all-star starters. Nobody else does either.

That's a straw man argument, and you know it. Nobody expects three hall of famers and 2 all stars. What we do need is versatile wingman who can share some of the playmaking burden, an athletic PF who can make up for KP's lack of lateral quickness on defense, and if we're lucky, a reliable scorer off the bench.

[turin]

.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

And you really think coaching has nothing to do with this all-time great offense? Seriously? You really think we have some kind of great roster, and we'd be so much better if not for our idiot coach holding them back?

I think that stat, like a lot of analytics, taken on its own in no other context is not much better than garbage. The stats look good, but anybody who watches this team can see a disconnect. Isn't this what you'd expect from a garbage stat? We have a statistically historic offense, yet, people are continually complaining about our trash players and lack of talent. How can both of these things be true?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

I think that stat, like a lot of analytics, taken on its own in no other context is not much better than garbage. The stats look good, but anybody who watches this team can see a disconnect. Isn't this what you'd expect from a garbage stat? We have a statistically historic offense, yet, people are continually complaining about our trash players and lack of talent. How can both of these things be true?

We have a statistically historic offense, and yet we have a horrible coach. How can both of those things be true?

[Thespiralgoeson]

For what it's worth, I agree that the statistical efficiency of this offense is overrated and doesn't mean much without context.

But I couldn't disagree more that RC is what's holding us back. I ask again, whose skillset is being wasted? I mean, sure, I guess Boban should probably get more minutes. But how much of difference do you really think that is? Quantify it.

I think the Mavs right now are exactly where their talent level dictates. We're a seventh seed. I look at the roster, and I think that sounds about right.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Do they really though? Outside of Luka and KP, I see a lot of scrubs who wouldn't crack the rotation for Lakers, Clippers, or Bucks.

I think that Powell, Kleber, THJ, Curry, Brunson all could have roles on a really good team. I'm not sure any of them would start for a really good team (Brunson is a possible exception).

The biggest need going into next season is a 2-way wing who can both defend and hit the 3 consistently. They don't have to be able to create; they just have to be able to play both ways. DFS can defend (some) and rebounds well, but he is pretty close to a non-threat on offense. Justin Jackson is passable on offense but not nearly good enough on defense. THJ is the closest thing we have to a 2-way wing, but his defense is mediocre.

The next biggest need is a veteran presence. That would really help with late game nerves/execution. It'd be great if that guy could also play PF, rebound like crazy, and hit the 3.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by MFFL

Good to see you KG!

Thanks! Likewise.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

For what it's worth, I agree that the statistical efficiency of this offense is overrated and doesn't mean much without context.

But I couldn't disagree more that RC is what's holding us back. I ask again, whose skillset is being wasted? I mean, sure, I guess Boban should probably get more minutes. But how much of difference do you really think that is? Quantify it.

I think the Mavs right now are exactly where their talent level dictates. We're a seventh seed. I look at the roster, and I think that sounds about right.

Yes, it's about right. Rick's not perfect, but he's not holding the Mavs back. What's he supposed to do? Go out there and get a stop or box somebody out late in the game?

[turin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

We have a statistically historic offense, and yet we have a horrible coach. How can both of those things be true?

Since you can't deduce that from my question, I'll tell you. I think the stat is garbage.

You point out the Mavs have a modern NBA pace-space offense, and that I would agree with. They just don't run it very well. GS ran it to perfection. The Mavs copied the trend, and are trying to build a better wheel. Yeah, good luck with that. Not going to work imo. If you want to take the top spot, then in sports, the next dominant team is one that has come up with a counter to the existing "meta" style of play. The NFL is a great example of this. Offenses and defenses evolve to counter and attack based upon the systems other teams utilized. Basketball should be the same.

In the current NBA environment, the glaring opportunity in my mind is for a team with SIZE in the middle. They will beat the pace-space 3-pt chuckers over the course of a 7-game series imo. The Lakers aren't afraid of size, so if they win it all, then they may be the next team to be copied. I just don't think the top 2 talents and foundations on our roster are only necessarily best utilized in mold of the current NBA trend. Yes, they have enough talent to produce in pretty much any system, but I'd look for something that is more dialed into their specific talents as well as one that better utilizes the existing talent on the roster.

The excuse of "we're not going to win a championship this year" is tired. Good coaching doesn't involve losing games pretty much the same way over and over and over again. I don't feel like counting, but if I had to guess, I'd say the number is more than 12 this season already.

[turin]

Keep an eye on Denver the next couple of years. They are another example.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

Since you can't deduce that from my question, I'll tell you. I think the stat is garbage.

It's not that I can't deduce it. I deduced it just fine. What I'm doing is pointing out a contradiction in your logic that you seem unaware of.

Your argument seems to be that the Mavs have a great roster, but that the coach is holding it back. You point out that "historic offense but bad roster" is a contradiction. And that's true. But I'm saying that statetment by itself isn't convincing, and simply substituting the roster part of the equation for the coach is an equally hollow analysis.

You point out the Mavs have a modern NBA pace-space offense, and that I would agree with. They just don't run it very well. GS ran it to perfection. The Mavs copied the trend, and are trying to build a better wheel. Yeah, good luck with that. Not going to work imo. If you want to take the top spot, then in sports, the next dominant team is one that has come up with a counter to the existing "meta" style of play. The NFL is a great example of this. Offenses and defenses evolve to counter and attack based upon the systems other teams utilized. Basketball should be the same.

In the current NBA environment, the glaring opportunity in my mind is for a team with SIZE in the middle. They will beat the pace-space 3-pt chuckers over the course of a 7-game series imo. The Lakers aren't afraid of size, so if they win it all, then they may be the next team to be copied. I just don't think the top 2 talents and foundations on our roster are only necessarily best utilized in mold of the current NBA trend. Yes, they have enough talent to produce in pretty much any system, but I'd look for something that is more dialed into their specific talents as well as one that better utilizes the existing talent on the roster.

So let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Your argument is essentially that the Mavs shouldn't be playing this type of small ball and instead should go "big" by playing Boban at 5 consistently and KP at 4?

I really couldn't disagree more. I'm fine with Boban getting more minutes, to the tune of 20 or so. But I think Boban gives you some nice touches inside and maybe improves the rebounding slightly, but he gets you killed on defense and kills your spacing. He slows down the offense considerably, and playing him as your primary center does not cater to the strengths of our two stars. Boban has been in the league a long time now. He's a career 6 pt 4 reb guy. I don't think there's a whole lot of untapped potential there.

Before Powell went down, he was at 5 and KP was at 4. So we were playing "big" for most about half of the season, and we weren't much better. In fact, I think we were worse, because KP was wasted in that role. As soon as he went down and RC moved KP to the 5, KP flourished.

I don't think the Mavs are any more "afraid of size" than the Lakers are. Their bigs are more athletic than the Mavs' bigs, and furthermore, the Lakers' best lineup seems to be a "small" lineup with AD at the 5. The Lakers are playing to the strengths of their roster (which, by the way, is top to bottom, considerably better than the Mavs' roster.)

The excuse of "we're not going to win a championship this year" is tired. Good coaching doesn't involve losing games pretty much the same way over and over and over again. I don't feel like counting, but if I had to guess, I'd say the number is more than 12 this season already.

You say it's bad coaching. I say its that we have a really good offense and a really bad defense. Hence, we can build leads but can't hold onto them because we can't stop the other team from scoring.

The underlying premise of everything you're saying seems to be that the Mavericks have underachieved this season. I don't think they have. I think if anything they have overachieved at times- thanks in part to, yes, good coaching. This is what they are.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

Keep an eye on Denver the next couple of years. They are another example.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Denver also plays to the strengths of their roster. They have the best passing bigman in the history of the sport. Earlier you suggested KP play a similar playmaking role. KP is a decent passer for his size, but he aint no Jokic.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I think that Powell, Kleber, THJ, Curry, Brunson all could have roles on a really good team. I'm not sure any of them would start for a really good team (Brunson is a possible exception).

The biggest need going into next season is a 2-way wing who can both defend and hit the 3 consistently. They don't have to be able to create; they just have to be able to play both ways. DFS can defend (some) and rebounds well, but he is pretty close to a non-threat on offense. Justin Jackson is passable on offense but not nearly good enough on defense. THJ is the closest thing we have to a 2-way wing, but his defense is mediocre.

The next biggest need is a veteran presence. That would really help with late game nerves/execution. It'd be great if that guy could also play PF, rebound like crazy, and hit the 3.

Let me amend my earlier statement, which was somewhat of an exaggeration. I think they're all decent rotation players, but that's it. The problem is, you need only about two or three of those types of players on your team to supplement up your "impact" players. But we have a whole team of them. I think we're essentially saying the same thing.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

All arrows still point to the offseason no matter which way you want to argue it. Donnie did great in getting both Luka and KP, but then they literally just threw together as many role players as they could to see what would fit. I just don't think there was much of a though process to it, or more importantly, what specific roles they would actually play.

Like, you can't have your 12th man being able to play as well as the 3rd best player on a given night. There is too much unknown and unreliability with that. A perfect example is Trey Burke who killed it against Houston and then is a complete non-factor against the Suns. This will never be a winning formula until they get a 3rd player they can rely on consistently.

[EricaLubarsky]

We are seriously missing Brunson and Powell.

Before Powell injury
.642
After Powell injury
.481

Before Brunson injury
.607
After Brunson injury
.461

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Do they really though? Outside of Luka and KP, I see a lot of scrubs who wouldn't crack the rotation for Lakers, Clippers, or Bucks.



Do you really think it's a problem of fit, rather than just lack of talent? Like seriously, who, outide of Luka and KP, do you think is particularly talented? THJ was nothing more than one of the worst contracts in the league that the Mavs had to take back in the KP deal. The fact that Carlisle has actually turned him into a moderately productive player we have some positive feelings about is a testament to his coaching ability. Seth is an elite 3 point shooter, but he's terrible at everything else. Neither THJ nor Seth would even be the first option off the bench for a title contender. They'd be 7th or 8th men at best.

Everyone else are practically d-leaguers as far as I'm concerned.

Tim Sr. Just recently said the Mavs originally called the Knicks to inquire about THJ, not KP.

https://dailyknicks.com/2020/08/02/k...ly-wanted/amp/

[turin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Your argument seems to be that the Mavs have a great roster, but that the coach is holding it back. You point out that "historic offense but bad roster" is a contradiction. And that's true. But I'm saying that statetment by itself isn't convincing, and simply substituting the roster part of the equation for the coach is an equally hollow analysis.

Talk about a straw man. Hello. Yes, you acknowledge the inherent contradiction of "historic offense but bad roster" and then you suggest something that I never asserted about the coach.

My point is that the roster is not as bad as everybody says it is, but that the coach doesn't utilize the players he has to the best of THEIR abilities. He tries to put square pegs in round holes. For example, let's take a look at Boban. He's a liability on defense if you put him in man-to-man or switch him and make him chase a smaller guy out to the 3-pt line, which is done regularly by opposing teams. It's the smart counter, but it's only the smart counter when Boban has to play that way. In a zone, Boban doesn 't have to chase smaller players out to the 3-pt line. He stays anchored around the rim to guard the lane and be a paint presence. It boggles my mind how difficult it is for some people to understand such a basic basketball concept.

As far as the Mavs playing with bigger players, you make yet another strawman and suggest that I think Boban is the answer. Should he play more in my opinion? Yes. But the Mavericks have/had KP, Maxi, WCS, and Boban on the roster. That's a pretty nice, versatile stable of big guys who can give you various combinations of offensive and defensive skill sets, but the key is YOU HAVE TO PLAY THEM and PLAY THEM TOGETHER in effective roles. Hello zone again on defense. Dwight Powell a big? Give me a break. He's undersized. He hops around a lot appearing to waste a lot of energy accomplishing very little. He is usually pushed out of position, is a poor rebounder, turnstile on defense, and his 3-pt shot? OMG He's a nice guy, and I'm sure a great teammate, but for heaven's sake, quit lionizing a guy whose best skill is rolling to the basket for a lob dunk once or twice a game. but, but SPACING! OMG LOL

It was mentioned that Denver has the best passing big in history. I don't know about that. There have been a lot of really great big men, but they were not utilized in the same manner. Does KP have the same skill set? No. My point in suggesting KP being a focal point of the offense and possible originator was to give an example of some options where he can have a greater impact on the game. He is a unique player, so why can't the offense have some unique features that take advantage of his skills? Why is this so hard? Is it because there isn't another team out their who has a player like KP from whom the Mavs can copy his sets? SMH Come up with something yourself. He is a unicorn. Again, why is this so hard to understand? If RC doesnt' have the chops for it, then that's fine, recognize and choose to live with what RC does system-wise or find somebody else who isn't beyond experimenting to see what can potentially be had in something more tailored to the talent.

The Mavs have some nice size and amazing talent in both KP and Luka. I also see an opportunity for bigger skilled players to make a bit of a comeback, especially if paired with Luka and KP, but it's hard to prove unless somebody is willing to go out on a limb and try it. Jokic has been mentioned as an outlier. Jokic also happened to be the 41st pick of the 2nd round. The Mavs have placed very little value in these picks, and if you think that Jokic would be the player he is today in the role he fills in Denver had the Mavs drafted him, then put down the crack. There aren't a lot of places that would get a big guy in the 2nd round like Denver did, bring him in, and then design an offense around him. Hell, in comparison, the Mavs get the unicorn in a trade, and everybody recognizes his uniqueness, but the Mavs try to shoehorn him into their system at 4 mainly because of Powell imo. No way they wipe the slate and design a new offense around a 2nd round Jokic when the unicorn has to fit around Powell. LOL

We'll just agree to disagree. I wish the Mavs the best, but it's SSDD. After being bounced, all hopes will be placed on the this coming off-season AGAIN. That's just sad.

[Dallas41]

I've read a lot of these past few post and I'm be honest I have to agree with Turin.

1st off I want to be clear RC is a good coach but he gets labeled a great coach way too often by mavs fans. I'll argue that he's closer to top 10 as opposed to top 5 in today's nba.

The thing that frustrates me the most about RC is that he seems very stubborn when it comes to adjusting to the talent on the team.

By this I mean instead of playing lineups that that give you the best chance to compete and win the Mavs play lineups that best fit a specific system and because of that specific system they will always play small and undersized regardless if a big guy can help more as opposed to the smaller who can occasionally hit a 3 point shot.

Imo and this is just my opinion both WCS and Boban are better overall players than a lot of the smaller players we have on the roster. But because those smaller players can make 3 point shot they will get more playing time.

This strategy won't change even if the mavs play big teams like a Denver or LA Lakers we will live and die with smaller lineups getting worn down having to defend bigger players.

The roster doesn't have any quality wing defenders which compounds the situation when your smaller guys are on the floor and they can't play defense.

This where imo as a former college player myself size can sometimes help you to over come disadvantaged defensively.

Some of the mavs best defensive games or moments this year have always come with they played big up front and were able to protect or defend at the rim.

Honestly as much as some fans have claimed that big lineups have hurt this team offensively I just haven't witnessed it. This team has been able to score the ball regardless if they've played big or small. The problem is they haven't been able to defend or rebound with any consistency because of the stubbornness to always play small.

Playing DFS at PF has made him less effective as opposed to when he started at SF most of the year. He just hasn't looked like the same defensive pest when his size and length was more effective defending 2 or 3's.

Moving Curry into the starting lineup and sliding THJ over to 3 might look sexy on paper that is the worst perimeter set of wings you could have on the floor together and with Luka in the lineup with them it gets even worse.

My solution would be to start Maxi at the 4 that way you keep KP at 5 but then it puts DFS back at his natural position. Boban imo is capable of playing 20 minutes a night as your backup big to give KP and Kleber normal breathers.

They can't close out games because they can't defend or rebound. Instead of going with KP, Maxi and DFS all together in the closing lineup they prefer to run out both THJ and Curry which is non sense unless your trying to play catchup basketball.

If you have the lead like we've seen these 1st two games you can close out with big lineups and really if you have KP and Luka both getting you 30 points wth aren't you surrounding these guys with more defense?

That 3rd wheel offensively to close games should be situational IMO. Who ever is shooting well between TJH and Seth that night or maybe you stick with a hot hand like Trey Burke but seriously you don't need to go small and all offense only to try and close out these games.

That strategy has failed repeatedly time and time again this year. You also don't need to strictly use Luka in ISO ball late in games. This guy can create mismatches on the low post with KP out high taking the big away from the basket. How about letting KP facilitate sometimes and using Luka to punish little defenders inside.

I agree the Mavs don't have a great roster but I think if the roster is tweaked just a bit in terms of how it is utilized they could be a little better especially at closing out some of these games when you need stops or rebounding yet you remain stubborn and trot out small ball.

Turin brought up the title team and yes it was true a few of the veteran players had to actually force RC to play a defender in Stevenson just to give the team a better chance to win games.

That team really only had two legit shot creators in Dirk and Terry yet they still found ways offensively to score. The things that finally got them over the top was playing with bigs and using more wing defenders.

This team doesnt have those same wing defenders but I think guy's like DFS, Maxi and KP used in tandem together would give you a respectable chance to compete defensively and get some stops as opposed to trying to trying to always out gun people every night.

But I won't hold my breath waiting on Master mind Rick to change his approach.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Let me amend my earlier statement, which was somewhat of an exaggeration. I think they're all decent rotation players, but that's it. The problem is, you need only about two or three of those types of players on your team to supplement up your "impact" players. But we have a whole team of them. I think we're essentially saying the same thing.

We probably are. We were in this position in around 2000 (except that Finley was better than THJ), and then Donnie put together a series of deals to package decent rotation players into "impact" players. It takes time, but I'm confident that he can do it again.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

We are seriously missing Brunson and Powell.

Before Powell injury
.642
After Powell injury
.481

Before Brunson injury
.607
After Brunson injury
.461

There are other factors, like Luka's ankle, but this is very true. It's all about having guys in the optimal spot in the rotation.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by turin

Talk about a straw man. Hello. Yes, you acknowledge the inherent contradiction of "historic offense but bad roster" and then you suggest something that I never asserted about the coach.

Whatever. You said exactly that. I'm tired of arguing about it.

As far as the Mavs playing with bigger players, you make yet another strawman and suggest that I think Boban is the answer.

No. I'm not making a straw man. I'm trying my level best to sum up your incredibly vague argument. Excuse me for not being able to read your mind.

But the Mavericks have/had KP, Maxi, WCS, and Boban on the roster. That's a pretty nice, versatile stable of big guys who can give you various combinations of offensive and defensive skill sets, but the key is YOU HAVE TO PLAY THEM and PLAY THEM TOGETHER in effective roles.

Pretty nice? I think it's mediocre crap outside of KP, but whatever.

Hello zone again on defense. Dwight Powell a big? Give me a break. He's undersized. He hops around a lot appearing to waste a lot of energy accomplishing very little. He is usually pushed out of position, is a poor rebounder, turnstile on defense, and his 3-pt shot? OMG

Powell is a center. Period. Undersized? Ten years ago maybe. Not in today's NBA. KP and Powell = big lineup. End of story. You think Powell is bad at that role? Fine. I actually agree. But don't act like that was clear or discernible in your previous posts.

He's a nice guy, and I'm sure a great teammate, but for heaven's sake, quit lionizing a guy whose best skill is rolling to the basket for a lob dunk once or twice a game.

Lionizing?????? I'm lionizing Powell???? Either you're confusing me with someone else or you didn't read what I said. I've said over and over and over again that Powell's injury was a blessing in disguise because it forced RC to put KP at center. I don't recall ever once saying anything remotely complimentary about Powell. I merely said that he was a center, which he is, and that him and KP together is a "big" lineup, which it is.

but, but SPACING! OMG LOL

Look, we can disagree, and clearly we do, but there's no need to be so snide. If you're going to be rude, then there's no point in continuing the conversation.

It was mentioned that Denver has the best passing big in history. I don't know about that. There have been a lot of really great big men, but they were not utilized in the same manner. Does KP have the same skill set? No. My point in suggesting KP being a focal point of the offense and possible originator was to give an example of some options where he can have a greater impact on the game. He is a unique player, so why can't the offense have some unique features that take advantage of his skills? Why is this so hard? Is it because there isn't another team out their who has a player like KP from whom the Mavs can copy his sets? SMH Come up with something yourself. He is a unicorn. Again, why is this so hard to understand? If RC doesnt' have the chops for it, then that's fine, recognize and choose to live with what RC does system-wise or find somebody else who isn't beyond experimenting to see what can potentially be had in something more tailored to the talent.

What skills of KP's are going utilized? Playmaking? I don't see it. KP has been phenomenal since about February (again, right after Powell went down.) I think he's been utilized about as well as he can be, and he has played about as well as he can.

[turin]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

What skills of KP's are going utilized? Playmaking? I don't see it. KP has been phenomenal since about February (again, right after Powell went down.) I think he's been utilized about as well as he can be, and he has played about as well as he can.

Yes, KP has been playing great at the 5, since Powell went out with injury. That has been the best adjustment all season, but just to be clear, RC only played him there more out of necessity than design. His hand was forced on that adjustment. So while I think Carlisle is a very good coach, I don't think he made some type of genius move that unlocked KP's potential, since it was a move he had to make at the time and really had no other choice in the matter. The Mavericks were (sadly for Powell) fortunate in a basketball sense that this happened, but for as little as I like Powell as a starting center, I'd gladly trade RC's adjustment for Powell's pre-injury health. Somebody would've eventually seen the light with KP, and it wouldn't have had to come at Powell's expense.

No comments on Jokic had he become a Mav? Do you think he'd be the same player in a similar position with the Mavs? I think that's a very easy answer. NO WAY.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

There are other factors, like Luka's ankle, but this is very true. It's all about having guys in the optimal spot in the rotation.

Certainly it's more than just those two going down. Luka was injured. Teams are tightening up our defense and are changing defensive strats against us. Mavs are in a major shooting slump.

Still, Brunson and Powell were our two most consistent and clutch players and their loss absolutely threw off our rotation to the point that we really can't do anything right in the second half.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Brunson and Powell still fall into the category as the rest of the non Luka/KP squad though. Great one game, not so much the next...although Powell was playing well before his injury. But honestly, Powell is not going to be the same player anyway, and KP has been on fire since his injury.

[Dallas41]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Still, Brunson and Powell were our two most consistent and clutch players and their loss absolutely threw off our rotation to the point that we really can't do anything right in the second half.

Both of those guys are still two of the biggest liabilities on the team imo

If Powell isn't dunking he's not giving you much else and Brunson is a frustrating player to watch.

This team honestly still wasn't closing out games even with those two guys around because they are both just backups


This describes who the mavs are this year even when fully healthy

The Mavs lead the NBA with 18 losses by five or fewer points. Dallas is 2-10 in games where the final score is decided by three points or less.