Kidd to Dallas?

[Mandyahl]

I agree with alot of that dude..

hey murphy, i think you are talking to me...dude and i have the same icon but are different people [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. just wanted to clear that up...i like it when people agree with me, so i am not going to let the credit go to someone else.

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: superheadcat


i still have problem sending nash away, though. remember the 4th meeting with kings during the regular season? i cannot remember similar heroism from kidd. and i am not sure who in mavs' uniform can duplicate that except nash.

2002 playoffs, round 1 v Indiana. With no Kidd, Reggie Miller buries the Nets.

[Mandyahl]

even this year, kidd hit the shot at the end of game 1 of the detroit series. kidd may not be a good shooter, but he does have a knack for hitting shots at the end of the game.

[Jeremiah]

If Kidd came here, I suspect he'd do what he did in NJ. He'd start in on the first shooting drills as the guy feeding the ball to the players shooting. He'd find out exactly where each player likes to receive a pass, and he'd figure out, through repetition where each player is best at receiving a pass. If Kidd can't get Raef to drain more shots, then he won' do it in a Mavs uniform.
I then suspect that Dirk goes up for more alley oops, maybe one per 2 games, same with fin, but more like 1-2 per.
Kidd will do similar things that Nash does in that he will penetrate to the hoop, and kick it out to whomever has a shot.
I don't know if Nash sees the floor as well as Kidd. He sees it pretty darn well, that's for sure, but I'm not sure he does as well as Kidd.
Just like Nash, Kidd will take over a game when need be. Though, I don't suspect that will happen given the great scorers in Dallas. Overall, his fg% is crap, but when the game is on the line, he sure appears to have a good %.
While I can't say that Nash doesn't have moxy, I know Kidd does, and that's something this team could use.

Here's a question: When we play the Kings and the Lakers, Nash gets swarmed with triple teams, and has difficulty passing out of them. (As I'm sure most players would.) Will Kidd be susceptible to that? Is he better at anticipating the double and triple teams?

If Kidd comes, then I'd agree we trade Nick. If a good post player is not available, I say we go after a shooter, like Brent Barry or Michael Redd, and a higher draft pick. I say this because I don't want Jason shooting the ball, at all. I want him getting the ball to the guy that can shoot, and that's Dirk, Fin, and said shooter. I prefer a big man, but I don't know how probable that is.

I like Nash, and I'd like to keep him. I'd feel comfortable making a run at Malone and Mourning, and acquiring one if not both through FA and trade, and I'd also feel comfortable selecting Malick Badiane in the draft, or do as someone suggested and trade 29 and 57 for Chicago or Milwaukee's second round picks. I also would feel comfortable then acquiring Jumaine Jones from Cleveland. I haven't seen him play in Cleveland really, but he impressed me enough in Philly's finals run 3 years ago, that I think he'd be an excellent addition to this club at the 3. And that all could happen probably with retaining Nick too. Though I suspect if we got both mourning and malone, nick would have to go to one of those clubs.

[superheadcat]

Originally posted by: Mandyahl
even this year, kidd hit the shot at the end of game 1 of the detroit series.

well that is not quite the same: had kidd missed that shot, it is still a tie game. nash's shot is a game tying shot, which sent the game to ot.

[Murphy3]

overall, kidd is around a 40% shooter.
I'd be willing to bet that his shooting percentage isn't much better in the 4th and into crunch time. Maybe slightly, but not much.

You pretty much are what you are.
Kidd's not a good shooter

[Mandyahl]

but it is the same idea...hitting clutch shots at the end of games.

[Jeremiah]

I'd be willing to bet that his percentage is better. I imagine, that on average, it's good within the first 5 shots, maybe 50 pct., not anything to write home about in the middle qtrs, sometimes being atrocious, but darn good at the end of games. He used to be plain horrible, now, I think he just gets better with pressure, kindof like Nick. I also think his shots at the end are going to be finger roll layups from 6 inches.

[superheadcat]

ok, maybe some props for kidd:

he is a better perimeter defender than most of the current mavs, although i am not sure how much better;
his intangibles: he is said to be better than anyone else at making other on the court better. imagine he makes raef or shawn better. but again, those are "intangibles".

still, a nice addition, but maybe not at a price of nash.

[Murphy3]

Funny thing about NVE down the stretch in close games, wasn't his shooting percentage in the clutch actually worse than his overall %?

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Funny thing about NVE down the stretch in close games, wasn't his shooting percentage in the clutch actually worse than his overall %?

Not sure. I know he had good and bad games at the end though.

[u2sarajevo]

I think NVE was inconsistent in clutch situations. The F'em game he was great, but dissapeared at times during the Spurs series. Is there anywhere that tracks stats in the last 5 minutes of close games for players? I guess we could call Norm. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Murphy3]

yeah,there's a site that does...I think MFFL knows it...
He provided a link once before, i believe.

Dirk was around 50% down the stretch of close games
NVE, Nash, and Fin all shot less than 40%

But, that was probably about 3/5 of the way through the season or so.. i can't imagine that it changed considerably as the season wore on..but, obviously it could have changed some.

[Mandyahl]

link

i found this at spursreport and just thought it was an interesting perspective on kidd/nash.

Jason Kidd Going To Dallas?

Chance's Ticket Talk
by David Chancellor, Ticket 760 Sports on News 4 WOAI

I've been trying to figure out why Jason Kidd would go to Dallas.

The guy says he wants to win, but we all know Dallas won't do that without a big man, a legitimate big man to battle Duncan or Shaq.

Why would Dallas want Kidd anyway? They've got Steve Nash.

True, but Kidd’s the player every superstar wants to play with and you can bet that includes big men like Karl Malone or PJ Brown. Maybe they'd play for the minimum or the five million exception if Kidd was there. That's for them to figure out, not me.

Word is Kidd’s a good guy, and an even better teammate and maybe that's why Kidd goes to Dallas. By forcing a sign and trade, Kidd helps New Jersey get something in return. If he comes here Jersey gets nothing. Not exactly the way you treat a team that's bent over backwards for you the last two years.

Ironically, the Spurs pride themselves on signing the NBA's good guys, guys that “do the right thing.” Going to Dallas, that’s the right thing, just not for San Antonio.

[Lvubun1]

Denial is usually a decent sign that it is atleast being talked about.

Thorn dismisses
Kidd sign-&-trade

Jason Kidd practices golf swing as Mavs owner Mark Cuban looks on and speculation swirls over whether Net free agent will land in Dallas.

July 1 is still a week away but the Jason Kidd rumors have long been under way. On the Internet and on talk radio, there's speculation of Kidd going to Dallas or Sacramento in sign-and-trade deals.
Nets president Rod Thorn, though, says any sign-and-trade deal is news to him. As far as Thorn is concerned, signing and trading Kidd is not really an option. If anything, it's a last resort.

"It's not anything I'm going to do," Thorn said last night. "You can do it. (But) I am not interested in doing it. There will be a lot of rumors and innuendos in the next week or two until he makes his decision."

The latest rumor is Kidd going back to the team that drafted him - Dallas - in a sign-and-trade involving Steve Nash. Before that, there was Kidd to Sacramento for Mike Bibby and Hedo Turkoglu. Sacramento denied any such thinking. The Kings understand what Thorn is about to go through in the next couple of weeks. Two summers ago, Chris Webber was the game's most sought-after free agent and the Kings had no intention of doing any sort of sign-and-trade with Webber. Webber stayed for a Kings' ransom.

Now, Kidd is set to become a free agent on July 1. Yesterday, Kidd was in New York at a press conference with Mavs owner Mark Cuban benefiting the Fallen Patriot Fund for families of Americans lost in the war in Iraq. Kidd, who planned to meet with his agent Jeff Schwartz last night, joked with Cuban that the only place he is going to visit is Lake Tahoe, where a golf charity event for the fund will take place next month.

"It falls to winning," Kidd said. "I want to try to win a championship. You have an opportunity. You're not promised to get back. The big thing for me has been a chance to win. I want to win. We had a golden opportunity and we didn't get over the hump. It always hurts. We'll see what happens."

The Nets can pay Kidd the most money of any team thanks to the collective bargaining agreement, which allows them to give Kidd annual salary bumps of 12.5% as opposed to the 10% other teams like San Antonio can offer Kidd. Only San Antonio has the cap space and championship credentials to lure Kidd outright. Otherwise, if Kidd wants to join a championship contender and get paid the money he deserves, he'll have to leave Jersey via a sign-and-trade - something Thorn has no intentions of doing.

"For a sign-and-trade, the player and two teams have to be agreeable to it," Thorn said. "Why do that?"

LInk

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Nash is way much better shooter than KIDD~ No doubt about it.

Everybody is saying about perimeter defense. WEll where as i agree Kidd is superior in this category. But i dont think that makes a much differnece if you get a good one slightly better D player on the PG, where u will loose 6% of field goal percentage (NASH is 47% and KIDD 41%) and moreover NASH is 5th best 3 point shooter in this league. IF you are in NEllies system, You need to be a good 3 point shooting team.

Kidd might have another better thing of looking at open court. Well, i agree that~ but i also think Nsh has developed his court vision much much better in last season. See the asists average are almost same. (Only one more for KIDD)

ANd no one can persude anyone by saying Kidd gets 4 more rebounds. If we need to take care of our rebounding problem, we need a guy who can help me getting average 10 rebounds. And that has to be a center, not a PG. Just need a big body down there. that is what we need.

And please try to get the view that, Kidd is doing all these in lowly Eastern conference. Remeber when kidd was in Pheonix and dallas?? he was just a sore looser! "ASON KIDD"??? anyone remember that phrase?

On the other hand, NAsh has been playing in western confernence from the rookie season. and he is gettting better every player. If you talk about his wear down. we better ask NVE to play with preofessionalism during the regular season so that we can give this guy some decent rest.

I would say just keep THese Nash and NVE combo for one more year. And while NVE will also going to have only one more year for his contract, mnay people will be interested in him. Heck, if any body we can get like O'neil (which i think is not gonna happen. think about Lewis situation! they just want more money). so, sign and trade possibity is sinking. Only thing is good is that we get pick 4 and get rid of Raef. We have sen two seasons of Raef and gave him a crap contract. just give 29 and raef and get pick 4 and they go for BOSH.

[Murphy3]

just a question, but since when has kidd been considered a "good guy" and "good in the locker room"?

I've always heard the opposite. most superstars in basketball don't play for 3-4 teams during the peak years in their career..it says something about the man himself.

[Mavs_Rule2003]

I like this much better from DB.com

Kidd: Jason back to DFW? Yeah, for his connecting flight to visit SA.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[aexchange]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
just a question, but since when has kidd been considered a "good guy" and "good in the locker room"?

I've always heard the opposite. most superstars in basketball don't play for 3-4 teams during the peak years in their career..it says something about the man himself.

i think you are exaggerating things. he's played for a total of 3 teams. two during the "peak" of his career. people love playing with him. marion, jefferson, martin, have all said they love his game. the only person he hasnt gotten along with is jim jackson who isnt exactly a saint himself.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
just a question, but since when has kidd been considered a "good guy" and "good in the locker room"?

I've always heard the opposite. most superstars in basketball don't play for 3-4 teams during the peak years in their career..it says something about the man himself.

Yeah, if he was a good in the locker room the Toni Braxton thing (between him and Jim Jackson) would have never happened you would think. Wasn't it reported that Jim and Toni were supposed to go on a date and Jason told her he was tied up but he would take her out? Was that ever found to be true, or only rumor?

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
yeah,there's a site that does...I think MFFL knows it...
He provided a link once before, i believe.

Dirk was around 50% down the stretch of close games
NVE, Nash, and Fin all shot less than 40%

But, that was probably about 3/5 of the way through the season or so.. i can't imagine that it changed considerably as the season wore on..but, obviously it could have changed some.

Sorry, beg to differ!!

pls check this stats for 3 point shooting:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/defaul...FG3PQuery.html

Nash (48.7%) is 6th in the league and unfortunately so, kidd (32.7%) is 42nd.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Yeah, if he was a good in the locker room the Toni Braxton thing (between him and Jim Jackson) would have never happened you would think. Wasn't it reported that Jim and Toni were supposed to go on a date and Jason told her he was tied up but he would take her out? Was that ever found to be true, or only rumor?

"There was so much written that was absolutely false," Jackson said about the rumors that he and Kidd were fighting over the popular singer.

"As players, we could say it 100,000 times, that something wasn't true, but people believe what they read. The whole Toni Braxton thing was ridiculous, totally false. She said that. Jason said that. I've said that. It still comes up. Toni even said she wanted to use the publicity to promote her new album. That's all."

[Mandyahl]

mavs_rule- murphy is talking about shooting percentages down the stretch in close games, not overall percentages.

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Originally posted by: Mandyahl
mavs_rule- murphy is talking about shooting percentages down the stretch in close games, not overall percentages.

ok i got the idea ..what u are talking about. But is that really what we can make an issue of. COs in dallas we have lot more guys(atleast 3 more) who can share the ball in the crunch time. And tops the list is DIRK.

And IN NJ? only KIDD. ANd KIDD.

so, i dont really see it is a good comparison to put.

[Murphy3]

you know, we'll never really know who's at fault in which situation or whatever.. but, it's true that there have been problems in the clubhouse in dallas, phoenix, or NJ..wherever kidd has played.

Now, are they serious enough issues to change my opinion on whether or not the trade should hypothetically be made?.. that might be a different story. With me, this trade should be made only if certain other situations are taken care of at the same time.. like shipping out NVE...possibly bringing in malone, mourning, or brown (or someone similar..take your pick)

[Murphy3]

thank you mandy..some people really don't pay attention

[Mandyahl]

Analysis: Kidd-Mavs link is pure speculation

Golf event with Cuban sparks rumors of a deal for free-agent guard

06/24/2003

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

No matter where Jason Kidd shows up these days, he becomes instant news – even if there is little or no tangible evidence that the news possesses any foundation.

So when Kidd was at a New York practice range hitting golf balls to publicize a charity tournament and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban was serving as his tight-lipped caddie, the rumor mill began grinding out speculation.

Though NBA free agents cannot begin negotiations until July 1, it hasn't kept executives around the league from mapping out their strategies for chasing the free-agent-to-be once the bidding war begins.

Conjecture linking Kidd to the Mavericks was to be expected. Kidd has made it clear that he wants the best chance to win a championship. Teams that went deep into the playoffs this year have to be considered possible destinations for the point guard who led New Jersey to the last two NBA Finals, only to be denied a championship.

Realistically, however, the Mavericks' chances of acquiring Kidd's services rate somewhere below San Antonio's and the Nets'. The Spurs, who are more than $14-million under the salary cap, have plenty of cash to pay Kidd and would not have to compensate the Nets.

Similarly, New Jersey could re-sign Kidd without regard to the salary cap, giving him a max-out contract that would start at $11 million and be worth more than $105 million for the seven-year duration.

So can the Mavericks legitimately compete in this high-stakes game?

In the NBA, virtually anything is possible. Whether it's legitimate is another story.

In this case, it would require a complicated sign-and-trade situation, with the Mavericks giving up Steve Nash and at least one other player with a significant contract. And the Nets would have to be willing to accept pennies on the dollar for Kidd, one of the NBA's best all-around players, who started his career with the Mavericks in 1994 when he was the second pick in the draft.

All of this would depend on the Mavericks changing their strategy about free agents this summer. They have made it clear they want to acquire at least one marquee big man to give them an inside presence that was sorely lacking during the playoffs. That still remains the priority in the free-agent frenzy.

If the Mavericks are going to aggressively seek a sign-and-trade, it is believed that Indiana's 6-11 Jermaine O'Neal would be a more suitable target than Kidd. O'Neal is 24 and one of the NBA's top young big men. Kidd is 30, and the clock is ticking on his peak years.

And bear in mind that acquiring Kidd also would mean having that contract for more than $100 million. With the Mavericks hopelessly over the luxury-tax threshold, that's the equivalent of a $200-million contract – a tough pill to swallow, even for the deep-pocketed Cuban.

The NBA, of course, is all about buying low and selling high. If the Mavericks can steal Kidd – or any other free agent, for that matter – they would jump at the chance. But there would appear to be better sign-and-trade possibilities for the Nets.

Kidd on Monday talked about his plans to play in the American Century Golf Championship at Lake Tahoe, Nev., with other celebrities July 18-20. Proceeds from that event will benefit the Fallen Patriot Fund that Cuban established for families of Americans lost or injured in the war in Iraq.

"That's one trip I have planned," Kidd said. "Tahoe, not Dallas. We know how much the league loves Cuban. I don't want to get him in trouble."

The bottom line is that Kidd is available for anybody who wants to get into the bidding process.

But in most cases, as with the Mavericks, there's more sizzle than steak.

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
thank you mandy..some people really don't pay attention

yeah when some people talk about visibly NOT RELATED topics. it is hard to understand. Check the nestle crunch time report at nba.com. KIDD is 4th and NASH 5th.

now this , kidd being the only crunch time options in NJ and think NAsh being may be 3rd options (after Dirk and FIn) in Dallas.

so, that is down earth stupid to make a comparison about the crunch time situation with no.1 scoring option of a team and may be 3rd scroing options of a team.

Hope you can sallow that.

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Donnie Nelson said the philosophy of the Mavericks is the same regarding their key personnel. If they aren't untouchable, they are close to that designation.

"We're at a stage now where the Big Three or Big Four (Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Nick Van Exel ) have produced some pretty sweet music and some incredible results," Nelson said. "To tamper with that would take a significant deal.

"If you're ever going to break that up, it better be for a quantum leap. Otherwise, I think it would be a mistake. I would say I wouldn't look for that to happen

Now this is what i needed to hear from a true president!!!

Seconded!!!

And KIDD is not that quantum leap. PERIOD.