2021-2022 Preseason and camp thread - Page 80 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kidd Karma · 08-03-2021, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJay

No, they offered him 125 million over 5 years, another team can give him 125 million over 4 years. So that's a little over 30 million a year so a max with Atlanta would be over 150 million. They're not going that high and I'm sure he wants them to that's the hold up.

125 divided by 4 is 31.xx million per year max another team can offer
125 divided by 5 is 25 million per year what Atlanta offered, which is not the max

And to get to that point, we'd have have to dump Powell and WCS, or in essence open up another 15 million in cap space to make the offer. Sounds like a safe gamble for Cuban to make.

Bryan_Wilson · 08-03-2021, 06:56 PM

Quote:

for the record i don’t believe it’s a holdup either. i just added it for context, but the compensation issue is the real thing at play.

-Tcato on Powell allegedly being the holdup.
https://twitter.com/tim_cato/status/1422705180366315530

JustJay · 08-03-2021, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

Mavs will sign Dragic and he will be overrated on these boards and come playoff time he will be unplayable do to lack of defense or injuries

I didn't want him two years and i don't want him now....

I don't care if he's buddies with Luka this dude doesn't move the needle one bit.

But I'm sure he'll get hyped up as some big piece this off season. Doesn't get to the Ft line and he doesn't have that ability to be the 2nd shot creator that this team desperately needed.

I'm so confused with their thought process.....

You can clearly see a team like the Bulls with Lavine and Vuc already on board wanted to add some serious difference makers to that tandem

Dallas meanwhile will feed us Dragic as the difference maker

Ugly people don't usually get super models.

Dallas41 · 08-03-2021, 07:07 PM

So did Cuban fix this issue that he pointed out after the playoff defeat

"We need a secondary ball-handler with some size," Cuban told the Daily Beast in a recent interview. "KP will spread the court, make threes, is a great cutter, and block shots. Luka will create. We’ve got shooters with Tim and Trey [Burke] and Maxi [Kleber] and others. But we need someone to take the pressure off of Luka, so instead of him having to have the ball in his hands for 40 minutes, it could be 32 minutes, and that’s what we need."

Sounds like DeRozan would have been the perfect fit for this roster

But I guess he preferred to play Lavine and Ball as opposed to Luka and KP

Dallas41 · 08-03-2021, 07:07 PM

..

tap2390 · 08-03-2021, 07:13 PM

Do you guys remember who Lebron attracted to Cleveland during his first stint when he was a young superstar? Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, that’s it. What about his second stint? Kevin Love via trading away the first pick. You can’t tell me destination doesn’t matter. Not to mention, Luka is still too young to be considered a guaranteed ticket to the Finals. Mavs did fine with what they had to work with. We might underachieve, but I think it’s equally likely we land a top 3 seed.

JustJay · 08-03-2021, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

But I guess he preferred to play Lavine and Ball as opposed to Luka and KP

I'm sure you were being sarcastic but I do believe he would prefer Lavine + Ball + Chicago vs. Luka + KP + Dallas.

SMC0007 · 08-03-2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dallas41

So did Cuban fix this issue that he pointed out after the playoff defeat

"We need a secondary ball-handler with some size," Cuban told the Daily Beast in a recent interview. "KP will spread the court, make threes, is a great cutter, and block shots. Luka will create. We’ve got shooters with Tim and Trey [Burke] and Maxi [Kleber] and others. But we need someone to take the pressure off of Luka, so instead of him having to have the ball in his hands for 40 minutes, it could be 32 minutes, and that’s what we need."

Sounds like DeRozan would have been the perfect fit for this roster

But I guess he preferred to play Lavine and Ball as opposed to Luka and KP

Yup. It most definitely sounded like Derozan. I already liked him but I figured that would be the target.

And NOPE they did not accomplish what he said publicly that the team obviously needed. Maybe a trade will be coming but with what we have as assets isn't bring a big difference maker.

Until then here's to hoping Sterling Brown takes a big step forward.

Melonhead · 08-03-2021, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Do you guys remember who Lebron attracted to Cleveland during his first stint when he was a young superstar? Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden, that’s it. What about his second stint? Kevin Love via trading away the first pick. You can’t tell me destination doesn’t matter. Not to mention, Luka is still too young to be considered a guaranteed ticket to the Finals. Mavs did fine with what they had to work with. We might underachieve, but I think it’s equally likely we land a top 3 seed.

Even after the Cleveland title they still struggled to get anyone of substance.

BPo001 · 08-03-2021, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Even after the Cleveland title they still struggled to get anyone of substance.

Weren’t they in salary cap hell though? I feel like Lebron has done that basically everywhere he has gone.

BPo001 · 08-03-2021, 09:55 PM

Adrian Wojnarowski: Free agent C Hassan Whiteside has agreed to a deal with the Utah Jazz, @excelbasketball agent Sean Kennedy tells ESPN.

Shams Charania: Australian center Jock Landale — the 2021 NBL Grand Final MVP — has agreed to a two-year deal with the San Antonio Spurs, his agent Sammy Wloszczowski of @SIGSports tells @TheAthletic @Stadium.

BPo001 · 08-03-2021, 09:56 PM

.

Melonhead · 08-03-2021, 10:06 PM

Add Jazz to the list of teams that got better. White side and Rudy Gay are both serviceable in backup roles.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-03-2021, 10:07 PM

So sad that we're having a Mexican stand off with Toronto over Goran Dragic. Just move on already or there won't be any free agents left.

tap2390 · 08-03-2021, 10:08 PM

Hardaway turned down a 4 year/ $88 million offer from the Pelicans to return to the Mavs according to Kevin O’Connor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...tm_name=iossmf

Melonhead · 08-03-2021, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Hardaway turned down a 4 year/ $88 million offer from the Pelicans to return to the Mavs according to Kevin O’Connor.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comment...tm_name=iossmf

Low key it kind of irritates me that the Mavs still try to play this game of take a deal for us. It worked here, but I can only imagine how many FA they try this with and are laughed at in private.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-03-2021, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Low key it kind of irritates me that the Mavs still try to play this game of take a deal for us. It worked here, but I can only imagine how many FA they try this with and are laughed at in private.

But you've just found the real crux of the issue. Mark Cuban no longer wants to spend and hasn't for a long time now. Flexibility will always be a thing for him. Problem is that he using the right kind of flexibility as cap space really isn't an asset when players don't come to play for you.

Like, 4/120 for Derozan never crossed his mind. Although maybe THJ going to NO would have at least forced them to consider Derozan at all.

EricaLubarsky · 08-03-2021, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But you've just found the real crux of the issue. Mark Cuban no longer wants to spend and hasn't for a long time now. Flexibility will always be a thing for him. Problem is that he using the right kind of flexibility as cap space really isn't an asset when players don't come to play for you.

Like, 4/120 for Derozan never crossed his mind. Although maybe THJ going to NO would have at least forced them to consider Derozan at all.

Would YOU go into the tax to pay for a mediocre team. I wouldn’t.

If we had a good team, we’d have to see. Not enough evidence from just 2011 to prove he’s cheap and you’d be a fool to overpay for mediocrity

EricaLubarsky · 08-03-2021, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So sad that we're having a Mexican stand off with Toronto over Goran Dragic. Just move on already or there won't be any free agents left.

What makes you believe that they are only working in Goran?

SMC0007 · 08-03-2021, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Would YOU go into the tax to pay for a mediocre team. I wouldn’t.

If we had a good team, we’d have to see. Not enough evidence from just 2011 to prove he’s cheap and you’d be a fool to overpay for mediocrity

I wouldn't for a mediocre team, but we were a playoff team that took Clips to 7. With Demar we are even better than last year's team by a good margin so I would for that addition.

EricaLubarsky · 08-04-2021, 12:03 AM

Mavs have a full 15 players BTW.

Looks like Hinton now has a fully roster spot

If we want to add players, we gotta make trades and trades are hard to come by when you have a$$ for players/contracts

Melonhead · 08-04-2021, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Would YOU go into the tax to pay for a mediocre team. I wouldn’t.

If we had a good team, we’d have to see. Not enough evidence from just 2011 to prove he’s cheap and you’d be a fool to overpay for mediocrity

Pretty much a catch 22. He doesn’t want to pay market price hence the mediocre team year in and year out.

FreshJive · 08-04-2021, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

-Tcato on Powell allegedly being the holdup.
https://twitter.com/tim_cato/status/1422705180366315530

lol "context"

Bryan_Wilson · 08-04-2021, 04:08 AM

Why do we assume it was money with Derozan? What if we just didn't like his fit? Whoever is in Mark's ear that is... Kidd or Nico both maybe Bob maybe Dirk Maybe Luka all or combination of. It's also not like the Mavs alone didn't target him, us fans might have wanted him here but lots of front offices clearly didn't want him. And with Tim I'm confused, first we want them to draw a line in the sand and say this is our limit with Tim now we might be upset he was possibly low balled compared to a desperate NOP team? Tim himself probably looked at that team and thought he would be the primary perimeter option and 2ndary scorer to Zion why leave here for that? I also recall when we got Wes the Kings offered him more and to try and get Deandre with him we offered to pay him more if we didn't pair him with another player. I like that we had a number and stuck to it instead of competing with what another team was willing to pay.

I keep seeing people wanting some sort of star but outside of guys who stayed with their current team and possibly a 33yr old Lowry who chose to play with a close friend(for 3/90...) who exactly is a star we missed out on? I never liked Lonzo or Dinwiddie and either mavs didn't either or they didn't like us. Calling them stars is also... borderline at best. Not every pg wants to play with Luka and then be placed off ball. Which is one of the reasons I wanted Derozan but Mavs didn't it looks like. Maybe it was his analytics maybe it was his defense maybe it was concern with spacing and fit who knows.

I still like what we have done. We got one of the better 3 and d guys on the market to replace the highly disappointing JRich and we got him on a very tradeable contract if need be. Same goes for Sterling Brown. We might get Dragic who is a solid player still and our franchise player loves. If we don't get Dragic I'm assuming we have a backup plan. We can always wait until trade deadline to improve further. Because compared to recent years it does seem like the Mavs are actually doing something this year it's just the deck was stackaged against us from the previous 2 shit off seasons(well more than that rly but mainly the last 2) and we saw going in that this was a weak free agency.

We still have a future pick to deal, we would have needed to use that to get Derozan at minimum. Chicago had 2 large expirings which we do not have. We have contracts which can be moved we have the TPE we have Brunson and Green if teams want them but with Green who knows what his value is when he isn't even getting minutes with Australia's team.

Lastly... Next year we won't have cap but at least we set ourselves up to be improved this season, especially if we have Dragic or some other playmaker, and we can package together starting on draft night our pick plus a future pick or two plus swaps plus powell's expiring and other contracts that are now positive contracts to either package with KP if his value comes back up or to get a 3rd star at that point.

turin · 08-04-2021, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Why do we assume it was money with Derozan? What if we just didn't like his fit? Whoever is in Mark's ear that is... Kidd or Nico both maybe Bob maybe Dirk Maybe Luka all or combination of. It's also not like the Mavs alone didn't target him, us fans might have wanted him here but lots of front offices clearly didn't want him. And with Tim I'm confused, first we want them to draw a line in the sand and say this is our limit with Tim now we might be upset he was possibly low balled compared to a desperate NOP team? Tim himself probably looked at that team and thought he would be the primary perimeter option and 2ndary scorer to Zion why leave here for that? I also recall when we got Wes the Kings offered him more and to try and get Deandre with him we offered to pay him more if we didn't pair him with another player. I like that we had a number and stuck to it instead of competing with what another team was willing to pay.

I keep seeing people wanting some sort of star but outside of guys who stayed with their current team and possibly a 33yr old Lowry who chose to play with a close friend(for 3/90...) who exactly is a star we missed out on? I never liked Lonzo or Dinwiddie and either mavs didn't either or they didn't like us. Calling them stars is also... borderline at best. Not every pg wants to play with Luka and then be placed off ball. Which is one of the reasons I wanted Derozan but Mavs didn't it looks like. Maybe it was his analytics maybe it was his defense maybe it was concern with spacing and fit who knows.

I still like what we have done. We got one of the better 3 and d guys on the market to replace the highly disappointing JRich and we got him on a very tradeable contract if need be. Same goes for Sterling Brown. We might get Dragic who is a solid player still and our franchise player loves. If we don't get Dragic I'm assuming we have a backup plan. We can always wait until trade deadline to improve further. Because compared to recent years it does seem like the Mavs are actually doing something this year it's just the deck was stackaged against us from the previous 2 shit off seasons(well more than that rly but mainly the last 2) and we saw going in that this was a weak free agency.

We still have a future pick to deal, we would have needed to use that to get Derozan at minimum. Chicago had 2 large expirings which we do not have. We have contracts which can be moved we have the TPE we have Brunson and Green if teams want them but with Green who knows what his value is when he isn't even getting minutes with Australia's team.

Lastly... Next year we won't have cap but at least we set ourselves up to be improved this season, especially if we have Dragic or some other playmaker, and we can package together starting on draft night our pick plus a future pick or two plus swaps plus powell's expiring and other contracts that are now positive contracts to either package with KP if his value comes back up or to get a 3rd star at that point.

I get it. There's a lot of frustration. By the time we get to that point we're talking about Luka's 5th season. Add 2 more years to make some good moves, and we're talking year 7. At least 3 years wasted due to ineptitude.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-04-2021, 08:41 AM

Wow, the spinning has already started? K.

I just know that every free agency is the same with this team in the last 12 years since 2011. Good FA crop. Bad FA crop. Doesn't matter. I mean, the only player I can remember that we were decisive on getting was Parsons. Only got Barnes because Durant wanted to go do GS and had to pay him a max contract. And Ellis was an OK we have some space, he is still a FA, why not try it? He turned out great but not because the Mavs even really wanted him.

I'm just pissed because Luka needs HELP. He needs a guy who can put the team on their back just for a little bit while Luka is gassed, has an off game, or gets hurt. Even a 35 year old Dragic is pushing it with that need, but it's better than nothing. Bullock and Brown don't remotely move the needle with regards to what the team needs to help our young stud.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-04-2021, 08:41 AM

Wow, the spinning has already started? K.

I just know that every free agency is the same with this team in the last 12 years since 2011. Good FA crop. Bad FA crop. Doesn't matter. I mean, the only player I can remember that we were decisive on getting was Parsons. Only got Barnes because Durant wanted to go do GS and had to pay him a max contract. And Ellis was an OK we have some space, he is still a FA, why not try it? He turned out great but not because the Mavs even really wanted him.

I'm just pissed because Luka needs HELP. He needs a guy who can put the team on their back just for a little bit while Luka is gassed, has an off game, or gets hurt. Even a 35 year old Dragic is pushing it with that need, but it's better than nothing. Bullock and Brown don't remotely move the needle with regards to what the team needs to help our young stud.

MFFL · 08-04-2021, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

So sad that we're having a Mexican stand off with Toronto over Goran Dragic. Just move on already or there won't be any free agents left.

Who do you want? Which free agent out there moves the needle?

At least Dragic has a purpose - he will help mentor Luka. Dragic will be in his ear telling him important things like "feed the big man" and "give up the ball instead of taking a contested step-back"

EricaLubarsky · 08-04-2021, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I wouldn't for a mediocre team, but we were a playoff team that took Clips to 7. With Demar we are even better than last year's team by a good margin so I would for that addition.

Bulls paid a first round pick. We simply did not have the first rounder that Spurs wanted. It’s not a matter of cash when we didn’t also have the assets.

EricaLubarsky · 08-04-2021, 08:58 AM

1) Luka
2) KP
3) THJ
4) Powell
5) Kleber
6) Brunson
7) Bullock
8) S. Brown
9) M. Brown
10) Burke
11) WCS
12) DFS
13) Green
14) Terry
15) Hinton
———two-way——-
16)
17)

EricaLubarsky · 08-04-2021, 08:58 AM

1) Luka
2) KP
3) THJ
4) Powell
5) Kleber
6) Brunson
7) Bullock
8) S. Brown
9) M. Brown
10) Burke
11) WCS
12) DFS
13) Green
14) Terry
15) Hinton
———two-way——-
16)
17)

tap2390 · 08-04-2021, 09:11 AM

I don't think it's spinning DHWS. I do see where the Mavs are going with the squad. Luka is a ball-dominant point forward who needs spacing and a SECONDARY creator. We already have enough issues with KP feeling like he's underutilized. Last thing we need is another ball dominant player. That rules out Derozan and Lonzo Ball.

Lowry/ Dragic fit the mold. Lowry had his heart set on Miami; Toronto wants a pick or prospect for a 35-year-old Dragic. That rules them out.

Gary Trent Jr., Norman Powell, Duncan Robinson, Will Barton, Evan Fournier are dubious upgrades over THJ at best. Might as well keep THJ for chemistry and continuity (and because Luka likes him and he's a hard worker). That rules those guys out.

So really who did we miss out on? I wish we'd gotten Richaun Holmes, but does he fit with KP? It also seems the market in general wasn't as strong for him as most anticipated.

I wish we'd gotten Caruso, but Reggie Bullock is bigger and the better shooter, and arguably fits with Luka better.

Collins and Markkanen don't make sense if you can't move KP. Bruce Brown took the QO. I just don't see what else could have been done. This was bound to happen since Giannis took the extension.

Giannis took 8 years to win a ring.

Lebron took 9 years to win a ring.

Kobe was an anomaly, but he played with Shaq.

Give the process time. MFFL.

EDIT: I'm glad we didn't pick up another PG. Dragic would be nice as a veteran presence, but force-feed Terry and Green minutes and let's see if we have something or not.

SMC0007 · 08-04-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Bulls paid a first round pick. We simply did not have the first rounder that Spurs wanted. It’s not a matter of cash when we didn’t also have the assets.

He was a FA, we had the juice. Didn't even have to mess with SA. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore. We don't know if he didn't want us or we didn't want him or even if the Mavs knew what he wanted before signing THJ or not. Just real odd that Cuban did everything but call him (or maybe Lowry) by his name when he said we need a bigger guard who can create and score to help Luka and then didn't get him or anyone else to fill our biggest need.

FreshJive · 08-04-2021, 09:12 AM

Reading what Cato wrote vs his Twitter response, makes me wonder how much the Carlisle vs Mosley thing was just context (made up), or how real all of the Bob stuff was.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-04-2021, 09:13 AM

Kemba Walker was bought out by OKC and going to the Knicks. Le sigh.

JustJay · 08-04-2021, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kemba Walker was bought out by OKC and going to the Knicks. Le sigh.

They should just move every team to Miami New York Los Angeles and Chicago. Then there'd be free agent parity.

Dtownsfinest · 08-04-2021, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

He was a FA, we had the juice. Didn't even have to mess with SA. At this point, it doesn't matter anymore. We don't know if he didn't want us or we didn't want him or even if the Mavs knew what he wanted before signing THJ or not. Just real odd that Cuban did everything but call him (or maybe Lowry) by his name when he said we need a bigger guard who can create and score to help Luka and then didn't get him or anyone else to fill our biggest need.

If Derozen didn't want to come to Dallas....there was no way to get him. I'm not defending this front office by any means but Derozen clearly didn't want to play here. The rumors were always Miami and Chicago. The Mavs have been able to get NO one and they were adamant on keeping THJ......

Dtownsfinest · 08-04-2021, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Kemba Walker was bought out by OKC and going to the Knicks. Le sigh.

New York...great place to play yet the Knicks seem to be able to only get 3rd tier guys.....But its destination they say.....smh.

BPo001 · 08-04-2021, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Bulls paid a first round pick. We simply did not have the first rounder that Spurs wanted. It’s not a matter of cash when we didn’t also have the assets.

Isn’t the 1st rounder the Bulls gave up their 2025 pick though? Same as what the Mavs could have offered I believe. Bulls owe a few first rounders from the Vucevic trade.

JustJay · 08-04-2021, 09:28 AM

Two things can be true we're a poorly run organization and players probably wouldn't want to come here even if we were a great run organization. Look at the Spurs has anyone accused them of being a poorly run organization? never. Yet they're sitting on the most cap space because no one wants to go there.