2018 NBA Playoffs

[Underdog]

I mean, 24 points on 22 shots and 27 points on 23 shots... Not a very efficient game for anyone tonight.

[Harpospoke]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

This.

As good as that dude is he's forever a piece of shit. When Dirk retires and recalls the journey it took for him to get his ring, it's going to be something he is extremely proud of and rightfully so. When Lebron retires and recalls his "journey" he's going to recall how he was on a 3 seat tandem bike riding downhill with a breeze against marathon runners uphill barefoot.

And fans have nothing to do with it, he wanted to be considered the greatest and decided to go for the easiest route possible end of story. Bill Russell, Kareem, Oscar, Jordan, Magic... there are still people who consider any of them the best for different reasons. It's never just about the rings, that's just what Jordan fans say. Lebron cheapened his journey, and honestly unless he plays against the Rockettes I'm almost always rooting against him. He's an amazing player and anyone with eyes and at least a basic understanding of basketball would have said he was one of the 5 greatest ever even if he ended with just 2 rings while staying 20yrs in cleveland. But no he took the easy way, im not giving him one bit of a pass.

Meh. I still say the fans are the reason this is all happening. Fans started the "rings" thing and now the players buy into it as a necessary thing to get any respect. Fans created it...now it's a real thing. So this whole thing exists because of the fans.

Lebron gave the Cavs 7 years. I don't see what the problem is. They proved they couldn't build a championship team. Why would a player stay with a team where it looks like they have no chance to win? They have free agency for a reason. Lebron would have gotten the Wilt Chamberlin treatment if he stayed with the Cavs and won nothing. All the blame put on him.

I don't see anything "easy" about Lebron's career either. For one thing he's probably the most scrutinized athlete in sports history since he was in high school. That's as hard as it gets. And he exceeded expectations put on him.

And Lebron did all this without ever getting to play for a great coach. Again reminds me of Wilt. (I think Wilt had 1 great coach for a year or two) He had to learn everything on his own mostly. Not exactly "easy".

If he went to the Spurs or something that would be easy. That's what KD did...join an already established championship team. Lebron put together a new team and there are no guarantees that will work. Along the way, Lebron had to face great teams like the Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors in the Finals. That's a much tougher task than the teams the Bulls got in the 90s.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Harpospoke

Along the way, Lebron had to face great teams like the Mavs, Spurs, and Warriors in the Finals. That's a much tougher task than the teams the Bulls got in the 90s.

LeBron got the Eastern Conference cakewalk to the Finals every single year, almost zero resistance to even get to the big show... Only converted 3/8 tries versus Jordan's perfect 6/6.

Also, I think you're severely underrating the teams the Bulls defeated:

91: Magic Johnson, James Worthy, AC Green, Vlade Divac, Sam Perkins, Byron Scott; (Mike Dunleavy)
92: Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson, Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth; (Rick Adelman)
93: Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers; (Paul Westphal)
96: Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillan; (George Karl)
97/98: Karl Malone, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek, Byron Russell, Greg Ostertag; (Jerry Sloan)

Each team had a couple HoFers, multiple All-Stars, solid role-players, excellent coaching -- pretty much on par with those Spurs/Warriors squads... Maybe you're not old enough to remember these players, or maybe it's been a long time since you've heard their names, but most of these guys had more accomplished careers than pretty much everyone on 2011 Mavs, except for Dirk, Kidd, and maybe Peja. At worst, they were on par with Jason Terry and Tyson Chander when it comes to career accolades.

And "fans" didn't put importance on championships -- the measurement of winners and losers did... Meritocracy, if you will.

[j0Shi]

No matter where ring chasing came from, it's still the reason you can't put LeBron over MJ. League changes have cemented other records and legacies before. Just think about Wilt's 100. You won't see that again due to pace and style of play. Yet nobody seems to complain or apply some fancy normalization math to be able to compare eras.

On the other hand, three-point records get beaten left and right. Should Reggie Miller feel bad that he was born a couple years too early? So what, LeBron won't catch MJ because of the era he plays in. It happens, and quite frankly doesn't take away the fact that LeBron by far is the best player of his generation.

I also don't mind that this "winner takes it all" mentality finally backfires. It's one of those weird things in US sports that I will never fully understand. Have fun with a league in which only a fraction of the teams are competitive I guess.

[j0Shi]

Not sure by the way what I hate more. Durant and Harden themselves or the fact that they represent the bs direction the league is heading into.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

That free throw graphic they showed of Harden is so disgusting. And they showed it moments after Harden blasts Exum in the face and flails his arms and once again gets the call.

I missed the game and am very curious on what this was. Can you either post a link to the image or do you recall what it said?

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Harpospoke

Lebron gave the Cavs 7 years. I don't see what the problem is. They proved they couldn't build a championship team. Why would a player stay with a team where it looks like they have no chance to win? They have free agency for a reason. Lebron would have gotten the Wilt Chamberlin treatment if he stayed with the Cavs and won nothing. All the blame put on him.

I don't see anything "easy" about Lebron's career either.

Jordan didn't win till 7 years with the Bulls. He lost 3 consecutive years to the same Pistons team. If Jordan left the Bulls and joined Barkley in Philly then signed Reggie Miller or some other talent how would people view his legacy? I promise he wouldn't have the same legacy he currently does, no matter how many rings he got. Lebron didn't just go sign somewhere else because he didn't trust management. He signed with a mvp caliber player and brought Bosh with them. He then joked about all the rings they would win because he thought they really would win that many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BqUBYaHlM "Once the games start it's going to be easy" "not one, not two..." you know the rest. I mean seriously take a look at those 3, they really did expect to basically rattle off 5+ rings. And as soon as things got tough and he was no longer the favored team, his ass left and built another big 3, a younger one. And everyone keeps saying he's going to leave again this off season and it will be for the same reason. So yes, he is always looking for the easy way.

He's a top 5 player talent wise and I've never seen him play as well as he is right now, especially when it matters most, the playoffs. But he has to be the most insecure super star I've ever seen. He tries to point out Jordan had more help then people remember, and the only reason to do that is to try and bring Jordan's peg down. He is constantly patting himself on the back after every big shot or play he makes. He even said after this last one that the game winner he hit was "extremely difficult, don't try it at home". Good grief we all saw the game we all say how tough it was, why in the world does he need to constantly try and remind us of his greatness?

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I missed the game and am very curious on what this was. Can you either post a link to the image or do you recall what it said?

I'll look for it. But it showed over the last 6 years Harden has shot 1200 more ft's than whoever was 2nd most. And he has shot 1600 more ft's than Lebron, who leads the league in minutes and is constantly a freight train to the rim.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Thanks Lebron!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HGjZd_Fm8&sns=fb

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Jordan didn't win till 7 years with the Bulls. He lost 3 consecutive years to the same Pistons team. If Jordan left the Bulls and joined Barkley in Philly then signed Reggie Miller or some other talent how would people view his legacy? I promise he wouldn't have the same legacy he currently does, no matter how many rings he got. Lebron didn't just go sign somewhere else because he didn't trust management. He signed with a mvp caliber player and brought Bosh with them. He then joked about all the rings they would win because he thought they really would win that many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BqUBYaHlM "Once the games start it's going to be easy" "not one, not two..." you know the rest. I mean seriously take a look at those 3, they really did expect to basically rattle off 5+ rings. And as soon as things got tough and he was no longer the favored team, his ass left and built another big 3, a younger one. And everyone keeps saying he's going to leave again this off season and it will be for the same reason. So yes, he is always looking for the easy way.

He's a top 5 player talent wise and I've never seen him play as well as he is right now, especially when it matters most, the playoffs. But he has to be the most insecure super star I've ever seen. He tries to point out Jordan had more help then people remember, and the only reason to do that is to try and bring Jordan's peg down. He is constantly patting himself on the back after every big shot or play he makes. He even said after this last one that the game winner he hit was "extremely difficult, don't try it at home". Good grief we all saw the game we all say how tough it was, why in the world does he need to constantly try and remind us of his greatness?

This 100% and this is coming from a guy who hated watching Jordan, but I had a deep amount of respect for his game. Look at the players that left any of those championship Bulls teams and signed for money someplace else. Noone did anything ... including Pippen! Those championships are a testament to Jordan's win at all costs mentality and Phil Jackson's ability to make average players step up when they are needed most.

Jordan's stats may not be as good as Lebron's, but there is just a difference in championship mentality between them and that is why the Jordan people will always say he is better.

[Melonhead]

The lebron hate and nitpicking of his career ITT is laughable. So much pent up disdain. People always find something new to try and minimize his accomplishments and hes done just about everything right in his career when the spotlight and hype was on him like no one ever at 13 years old.

15 years in the league and he's breaking his own career records. Jordan was near retirement at this point. Bron has and will have by the end blown away 95% of Jordan's records. If all you got is rings and you dont like his superstar attitude, then lol. All these guys have egos. Bron has faced more tougher competition throughout his career in the playoffs, mainly the Finals.

[EricaLubarsky]

LeBron is better than Jordan. There isn't an argument. Now the only argument is if he's at the level of Kareem or Russell. I think there's an argument to be made that he may be the best of all time.

1) Kareem
2) Russell
3) LeBron
4) Jordan
5) Robertson

[Underdog]

Nope.

[j0Shi]

I miss LaVar Ball on that list tbh.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

LeBron is better than Jordan. There isn't an argument. Now the only argument is if he's at the level of Kareem or Russell. I think there's an argument to be made that he may be the best of all time.

1) Kareem
2) Russell
3) LeBron
4) Jordan
5) Robertson

Wut? There’s certainly arguments for both. I’m of the mind that it’s impossible to compare the two given their different circumstances and different mentalities, but to say there isn’t an argument that MJ is better than Lebron is irresponsibly facetious from a sports fan’s perspective.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Wut? There’s certainly arguments for both. I’m of the mind that it’s impossible to compare the two given their different circumstances and different mentalities, but to say there isn’t an argument that MJ is better than Lebron is irresponsibly facetious from a sports fan’s perspective.

Agree there’s certainly room for argument...
Also I doubt most have Russell in their top five but I guess there’s arguments to be made for that 😊

[BPo001]

Well this game is over. Hope some of these teams who got beat (Toronto, Portland, Washington) try to change up their rosters this summer by moving their bigger names. Tired of seeing these teams trot out the same roster year after year.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Valanciunas looks like he is running in mud.

[Scoobay]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Well this game is over. Hope some of these teams who got beat (Toronto, Portland, Washington) try to change up their rosters this summer by moving their bigger names. Tired of seeing these teams trot out the same roster year after year.

These are the exact teams I mentioned in a prior post whose two best players are their guards.

You could theoretically lump the rockets in there and/or argue that Capela has stepped in as a third “star” similar to the warriors with Green (pre-Durant).
There’s something to be said about that with the talk of taking Doncic to pair with DSJ unless we have a third star we can somehow acquire.

And you’re absolutely right... they’ve not gone anywhere and aren’t going to anytime soon. Poor raptors even got beat seed and are getting trounced.

[BPo001]

Derozen just got tossed. Not sure I agree with the flagrant 2 call, but it doesn't really matter. Game was already over.

[sefant77]

everyone knew the Raps would get trashed tonight

[tap2390]

Bron & Love are really clicking right now. Here's to them taking out whoever they face in the West.

[Melonhead]

IF they get through the Celtics, as much as I want to see the Cavs shut down the Warriors, theyre just up against a dynasty. 4 HOF in their prime.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I really can't see Casey surviving this. And frankly, he shouldn't.

[Harpospoke]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Bron & Love are really clicking right now. Here's to them taking out whoever they face in the West.

I'm not convinced yet. All the Cavs role players looked horrible against the Pacers. Then they suddenly started looking better against the Raptors.

Seems pretty coincidental to me. I'm thinking when that happens in mass, it's due to who they were playing.

Now let's see if they can keep it up against a better defense in the Celtics. And if they do, the bar will be raised yet again by the Warriors.

Originally Posted by Underdog

LeBron got the Eastern Conference cakewalk to the Finals every single year, almost zero resistance to even get to the big show... Only converted 3/8 tries versus Jordan's perfect 6/6.

Well if it really was 1 on 1, Lebron would have won them all most likely. I love Dirk, but he's not beating Lebron 1 on 1. Neither is Curry. Now KD and Duncan would be interesting because they are taller and that matters. I would be particularly interested in seeing Duncan v Lebron. That would be something.

But of course we are talking about a team game so there is no such thing as a "Finals record". MJ wasn't 6/6...the Bulls were. MJ was on the better team so he got the ring. It certainly wasn't just because of him because MJ also played on teams that finished below .500 and went out in the 1st round.

MJ had better teammates than Lebron had so he could have off games and they still won. Like game 6 in 1996 against the Sonics when MJ shot 26% with 5 turnovers....but the Bulls still won the game and MJ got a ring. Now I hear people brag that "MJ never went to a game 7"....well that's not because of him. His team pulled that one off.

Originally Posted by Underdog

Also, I think you're severely underrating the teams the Bulls defeated:

91: Magic Johnson, James Worthy, AC Green, Vlade Divac, Sam Perkins, Byron Scott; (Mike Dunleavy)
92: Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson, Buck Williams, Kevin Duckworth; (Rick Adelman)
93: Charles Barkley, Kevin Johnson, Dan Majerle, Danny Ainge, Tom Chambers; (Paul Westphal)
96: Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Schrempf, Hersey Hawkins, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillan; (George Karl)
97/98: Karl Malone, John Stockton, Jeff Hornacek, Byron Russell, Greg Ostertag; (Jerry Sloan)

Each team had a couple HoFers, multiple All-Stars, solid role-players, excellent coaching -- pretty much on par with those Spurs/Warriors squads... Maybe you're not old enough to remember these players, or maybe it's been a long time since you've heard their names, but most of these guys had more accomplished careers than pretty much everyone on 2011 Mavs, except for Dirk, Kidd, and maybe Peja. At worst, they were on par with Jason Terry and Tyson Chander when it comes to career accolades.

Oh I watched them all. There is a reason why you had to name so many teams. ...Because there wasn't another great team around to give the Bulls any competition. The one other great team was the Rockets and the Bulls avoided them. (Good thing too because the Rockets were owning the Bulls in the early 90s)

You only know the names because the league was popular with all the MJ fans who showed up during that time. TV ratings were at an all time high (MJ fans of course stopped watching when MJ retired) so lots of players got famous. Gary Payton and Patrick Ewing were famous even.

But names don't really make a great team. OKC just proved that.

Those 90s teams not only weren't good enough to challenge the Bulls...they couldn't even win anything when the Bulls weren't there to stop them in 94-95. Most of them made one trip to the Finals and that was it. Those Jazz teams were 10 years past their late 80s peak. And of course the Lakers were done by 91. The 96 Sonics were horrible. You ever watch that game 6 when MJ was so bad? The Sonics couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. They had plenty of chances to win that game and couldn't hit an open shot. It's quite revealing when you go back and watch those old games that have been colored by romanticized memories over the years.

Check this out...pathetic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GicUh3baZQg

Far far different than the Spurs dynasty which was true greatness. Those 00s Lakers teams would own those 90s teams too. The 11 Mavs certainly wouldn't have a problem with them.

Originally Posted by j0Shi

I also don't mind that this "winner takes it all" mentality finally backfires. It's one of those weird things in US sports that I will never fully understand. Have fun with a league in which only a fraction of the teams are competitive I guess.

It's always been this way. Check out the 80s when it was the Lakers, Celtics, and Sixers in the early 80s and the Lakers, Pistons in the later 80s. Then the 90s had the Bulls and no one else except when it was the Rockets and no one else.

We may be about to have some interesting times. It could be Warriors/Rockets in the West and Celtics/Sixers in the East. That's better than normal.

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Jordan didn't win till 7 years with the Bulls. He lost 3 consecutive years to the same Pistons team. If Jordan left the Bulls and joined Barkley in Philly then signed Reggie Miller or some other talent how would people view his legacy? I promise he wouldn't have the same legacy he currently does, no matter how many rings he got. Lebron didn't just go sign somewhere else because he didn't trust management. He signed with a mvp caliber player and brought Bosh with them. He then joked about all the rings they would win because he thought they really would win that many. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BqUBYaHlM "Once the games start it's going to be easy" "not one, not two..." you know the rest. I mean seriously take a look at those 3, they really did expect to basically rattle off 5+ rings. And as soon as things got tough and he was no longer the favored team, his ass left and built another big 3, a younger one. And everyone keeps saying he's going to leave again this off season and it will be for the same reason. So yes, he is always looking for the easy way.

Again not accurate. If Lebron wanted the easy way he would have joined the Spurs instead of building his own team. And he CERTAINLY would not have returned to the Cavs. Why would anyone go to the Cavs if they were looking for "the easy way"? You are thinking of KD.

And MJ was openly dissatisfied with the Bulls in....1991. That's right...right before they won their first ring MJ was openly saying they weren't good enough to win. (a peek into MJ's poor GM skills) http://newsok.com/article/2379308

And then what happened in the late 90s when the Bulls were hesitating to bring back Phil? Something that MJ fans would rather not remember.

MJ told them he would retire if they didn't bring back Phil and Pippen. His reason was of course that he wasn't interested in playing for a team that didn't have a chance to win. Go to the 0:40 second mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq3muEyPA0

And of course that's exactly what MJ did when the Bulls finally got rid of Phil. MJ wanted no part of playing without Phil. MJ hung it up for a 2nd time. (MU sure quit a lot) At least Lebron kept playing the game when Wade's knees got too bad.

He's a top 5 player talent wise and I've never seen him play as well as he is right now, especially when it matters most, the playoffs. But he has to be the most insecure super star I've ever seen. He tries to point out Jordan had more help then people remember, and the only reason to do that is to try and bring Jordan's peg down. He is constantly patting himself on the back after every big shot or play he makes. He even said after this last one that the game winner he hit was "extremely difficult, don't try it at home". Good grief we all saw the game we all say how tough it was, why in the world does he need to constantly try and remind us of his greatness?

I agree he needs a PR person to point out how he sounds. He often sounds arrogant and self promotes a lot.

But it's also true that no other athlete in history has ever been as scrutinized as Lebron. This started when he was in high school. Upon his entry into the NBA the critics started going after him and it only got worse and worse over the years with the rise of social media.

How would I react if I was under constant attack from people trying to paint me in a negative light to protect their favorite player? I dunno...I can't imagine what that's like. I might just feel the need to point out when I did something good.

But I do know he's been one of the all time great examples of how to conduct yourself as a human being. His charity work is legendary (including "The Decision"...all proceeds went to charity), he doesn't cheat on his wife, he's a great father, and one of the hardest working athletes who ever lived.

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

LeBron is better than Jordan. There isn't an argument. Now the only argument is if he's at the level of Kareem or Russell. I think there's an argument to be made that he may be the best of all time.

1) Kareem
2) Russell
3) LeBron
4) Jordan
5) Robertson

That's not bad. I'm always going to grab the big guys first.

1-Kareem/Russell/Wilt/Duncan
2-Magic/Bird/Lebron
3-MJ/Oscar/West/Baylor

[Bryan_Wilson]

Joining the West and going up against b2b champ Lakers and 8 teams with 50 wins would have been much easier than just staying in the East with a MVP candidate in Wade and fellow top talent like Bosh and facing 2-3 teams of 50 wins? And rejoining the Cavs after his time with the Heat... again, what team in the East is competing against him? At that point what was their competition? A Broken Drose and the Pacers? They had a team with 38 wins make the playoffs in the East that last year with the Heat. Meanwhile the Mavs barely made the 8th seed with 49 wins. Yes, he absolutely has had an easy time in the East. Yes he took the easy way. Yes he is still an all time great and could be considered the best ever but it's not a given by any means.

In the last 9 years, starting from the year Lebron went to the Heat. The East has not once had the advantage in h2h with the West. The West has beaten the East 507 more times in h2h matchups alone. For an average of 56 games a year in favor of the west. And the high point was in '13-14 when the West won a whopping 118 more games against the East than they won against the West. The very next year Lebron stayed in the East and went back to the Cavs. Why in the world would he leave when the East quite clearly was at a huge disadvantage to the West? If anyone is wondering- 8 out of 13 years in Jordan's era since the lottery started in 85'-86 The East was stronger than the West. And since Lebron has been in the league the East has had the advantage a grand total of 1 time, a measly +12 on the year in '08-'09. The only reason i brought this up is because the easiest way has not been to join the West, Lebron absolutely has had a red carpet to the finals in the East and he did make it easiest on himself when he has had the 2 chances to do so and was the first one to start this shit superstar era we are in.

And I don't need to go into how great he is off the court and dealing with the massive expectations he has had on him from an early age. We all know he's a great person off the court and a great role model for people. But purely on basketball merits I think people have a right to be upset at what the NBA has become since "the decision". He's still a top 5 player of all time and on the mount rushmore of nba greats. And he's still writing his story so he could move up for those who don't see him as #1 right now. Like I said at the onset, he is playing better now than I have ever seen.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by BPo001

Derozen just got tossed. Not sure I agree with the flagrant 2 call, but it doesn't really matter. Game was already over.

My immediate thought on this was that DeRozan is not considered a super-star. Lebron doesn't get tossed on that call. KD doesn't get tossed. OK, maybe Russ does just cause he's a bit of a head-case. But DeRozan is like Mr Calm-Cool-Collected and then gets tossed??? Come on. It had zero bearing on the game or series, but just remind everyone that this ABOVE ALL ELSE is a super star league and right now, you do NOT win without a super-star.

Originally Posted by tap2390

Bron & Love are really clicking right now. Here's to them taking out whoever they face in the West.

Originally Posted by Melonhead

IF they get through the Celtics, as much as I want to see the Cavs shut down the Warriors, theyre just up against a dynasty. 4 HOF in their prime.

Bron and Love may be clicking, but they almost zero chance against GSW. Compare starting lineups and tell me they have a legit chance:
PG - Curry vs Hill
SG - Thompson vs Korver
SF - Iguodala vs JR Smith
PF - Durant vs Lebron
C - Green vs Love

I pretty much give the edge of Lebron of Durant, but even that is not by a great margin. Every other position is advantage Warriors. Let's not even get into the bench.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I just saw how mediocre of a season Lowry had. 16/7/5 on 42% fg and 40% from three is very meh. DSJ nearly had those types of numbers.

You can only fool people for so long in the regular season before they catch on to the fact that you don't have a superstar.

[Harpospoke]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Joining the West and going up against b2b champ Lakers and 8 teams with 50 wins would have been much easier than just staying in the East with a MVP candidate in Wade and fellow top talent like Bosh and facing 2-3 teams of 50 wins? And rejoining the Cavs after his time with the Heat... again, what team in the East is competing against him? At that point what was their competition? A Broken Drose and the Pacers? They had a team with 38 wins make the playoffs in the East that last year with the Heat. Meanwhile the Mavs barely made the 8th seed with 49 wins. Yes, he absolutely has had an easy time in the East. Yes he took the easy way. Yes he is still an all time great and could be considered the best ever but it's not a given by any means.

In the last 9 years, starting from the year Lebron went to the Heat. The East has not once had the advantage in h2h with the West. The West has beaten the East 507 more times in h2h matchups alone. For an average of 56 games a year in favor of the west. And the high point was in '13-14 when the West won a whopping 118 more games against the East than they won against the West. The very next year Lebron stayed in the East and went back to the Cavs. Why in the world would he leave when the East quite clearly was at a huge disadvantage to the West? If anyone is wondering- 8 out of 13 years in Jordan's era since the lottery started in 85'-86 The East was stronger than the West. And since Lebron has been in the league the East has had the advantage a grand total of 1 time, a measly +12 on the year in '08-'09. The only reason i brought this up is because the easiest way has not been to join the West, Lebron absolutely has had a red carpet to the finals in the East and he did make it easiest on himself when he has had the 2 chances to do so and was the first one to start this shit superstar era we are in.

Well you just made my case.

If a player wanted an easy ring...why in the world would you go to an East team? That would be like KD joining the Raptors or Wizards so he could get to the Finals and lose. Not sure how anyone thinks that makes sense. As we've seen, fans then just laugh at you for losing in the Finals and make up a fake "Finals record" stat. No...KD went and joined the team that proved it didn't even need him to win a ring and was crushing the "tough West". Obviously KD made the right choice. There was no team building involved like with the Heat in 2011. They already had the chemistry built in.

If you wanted an easy ring, of course you would join one of the strong teams in the West. Lebron to the Spurs in 2011 would have cruised to several rings until Duncan got old. The team was already built and they have a great coach. That's the KD route. Or maybe the Lakers even though in hindsight Phil was done at that point and Kobe was fading. But Lebron wouldn't have known that in 2010.

Another way it hasn't been easy for Lebron. He's never had the great coach and he never got the young version of Pippen. Wade was already past his peak (2009) by the time Lebron got him and Kyrie doesn't have the Pippen mindset...instead he has delusions of grandeur and thinks he is the super star. MJ already had Phil, Pippen, and Grant when he was complaining about the Bulls....just imagine how much MJ would have complained if the Bulls had not even brought in those guys by 91 and he went out in the 1st round again? That's where Lebron was in 2010. So their two situations were not remotely the same.

And I don't need to go into how great he is off the court and dealing with the massive expectations he has had on him from an early age. We all know he's a great person off the court and a great role model for people. But purely on basketball merits I think people have a right to be upset at what the NBA has become since "the decision". He's still a top 5 player of all time and on the mount rushmore of nba greats. And he's still writing his story so he could move up for those who don't see him as #1 right now. Like I said at the onset, he is playing better now than I have ever seen.

Well that gets into that fake "ranking" thing that doesn't really exist. Lebron of course can't never be "#1" any more than any other player can. We can't even determine that one in an individual sport like golf or tennis. Trying it in a team sport where every success is based on the team is out of the question.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just saw how mediocre of a season Lowry had. 16/7/5 on 42% fg and 40% from three is very meh. DSJ nearly had those types of numbers.

You can only fool people for so long in the regular season before they catch on to the fact that you don't have a superstar.

16/7/5 on 42%/40% is much better than
15/5/4 on 43%/31%

Still, one of those guys is only a rookie and on average rookies improve significantly between year one and year two. Lowry is 32. Players usually plateau after 27-29.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Harpospoke

Well you just made my case.

If a player wanted an easy ring...why in the world would you go to an East team? That would be like KD joining the Raptors or Wizards so he could get to the Finals and lose. Not sure how anyone thinks that makes sense.

No... The raptors and Wizards don't have a mvp candidate. It would be like if the Pelicans were in the East and he joined anthony davis and then brought Porzingis with them. Wade was a MVP candidate, top 5 in votes and a former champion(he sends thank you cards to the refs to this day) and Bosh was a 24/11 guy. Nobody on the Wizards or Raptors gives you either of those things. So no your example does not work.

If you wanted an easy ring, of course you would join one of the strong teams in the West. Lebron to the Spurs in 2011 would have cruised to several rings until Duncan got old. The team was already built and they have a great coach. That's the KD route. Or maybe the Lakers even though in hindsight Phil was done at that point and Kobe was fading. But Lebron wouldn't have known that in 2010.

Right... joining a team with 32-33yr olds was a good long term plan. People were saying the Spurs were done back then. Two of their big 3 were 32-33. The other had just missed 30 games that year. And even if you truly believe it would have somehow been easier to join the West(no)... that just means in ur mind it would have been easier. So lets pat lebron on the back for not choosing the easiest possible path but still an easy one. I'm saying and pretty much everyone I've ever talked to says- Lebron chose the easy way. That it, not the easiest way possible but the easy way. The easiest way possible would have been 1 year with lakers or celtics and then continue 1 year rentals to get rings with whoever the best team was. And you know what? With what Lebron started and what KD has now done... I wouldn't be surprised at all if the next generational talent does exactly that thanks to these 2.

Agree to disagree.

[Underdog]

Go, Jazz, go.

[Underdog]

This thread: https://twitter.com/rgiss11/status/993308915998732289

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Underdog

This thread: https://twitter.com/rgiss11/status/993308915998732289

Good lord. I hate that guy seriously. I hate the NBA even more for allowing this clown to do this regularly.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm rooting for the Warriors just for Quin Cook. Mavs pretty much excellent at finding guys like him.

And of course, have to root for the Warriors against the Rockets.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'm rooting for the Warriors just for Quin Cook. Mavs pretty much excellent at finding guys like him.

And of course, have to root for the Warriors against the Rockets.

Personally, I’m rooting for the East. Alternatively, I’m rooting for the apocalypse.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Personally, I’m rooting for the East. Alternatively, I’m rooting for the apocalypse.

Yeah I can't believe I'm saying it but I really am rooting hard for the Celtics right now. I never root for Boston in anything...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Yeah I can't believe I'm saying it but I really am rooting hard for the Celtics right now. I never root for Boston in anything...

Yep, Boston is easiest team to root for at this point (or hardest team to root against?)

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Good lord. I hate that guy seriously. I hate the NBA even more for allowing this clown to do this regularly.

How about a change.org like petition? Any known Harden haters with a massive twitter following? Can an entire arena stage a die-in whenever he is at the ft line? It may take in the Bay Area

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yep, Boston is easiest team to root for at this point (or hardest team to root against?)

Stevens is pure genius but I don’t see them standing a chance