Mavs vs Raptors Gameday Thread

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Tony tha Mavs fan
get the ball to dirk!

Apparently Dirk wasn't ready for it. I guess getting the ball caught him by suprise.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

Who wants to bet Walker takes this shot?

If he does,you have nellie to thanks for that.

[Tony tha Mavs fan]

Bob Ortegal doesn't hold back on his Vince Carter opinions

[Simon2]

Man, this is very unMav-like. Its so hard to score. What's going on?

[Simon2]

Man, this is very unMav-like. Its so hard to score. What's going on? Told ya. Walker takes the shot.

[DrtyFlthyNasty]

Originally posted by: sturm und drang
What is wrong with this team? I've never seen a more horrific 180 than what we've pulled since last spring.

God forbid I be accused of knee-jerking, but it's just that we haven't played well in the pre-season or regular season. I have not yet seen a glimpse of anything good that would lead me to believe this shit we're playing now is just an aberration or growing pain or what-have-you.

The coaching sucks.
The offense sucks.
The defense sucks.

And we're not taking it to the hole. We're not getting any freethrows. We're turning it over like crazy. Just bad fundamental basketball on every count.

And you know what bothers me most? No one seems to care. There's no energy, no passion, no nothing.

Pardon me while I puke.

well put!.. no excuses.!

[dirno2000]

This team has problems. Nellie's going to have to produce the coaching job of his life or this could get ugly. On and off the court.

[dirk2003]

I completly agree. 71 points? HAHA, excuse me while i go puke too.

[LRB]

[MavsFanFinley]

Dirk (42) 11-20, 1-2, 4-4, 27pts, 5rbs, 3as, 4to's, 3blks

Walker (39) 6-20, 1-4, 1-1, 14pts, 17rbs, 7as, 9to's, 1stl, 2blks

Najera (30) 4-7, 1-2, 9pts, 8rbs, 1to, 2stls

Finley (40) 4-13, 1-3, 2-2, 11pts, 3rbs, 1as, 2to's

Delk (36)2-7, 1-2, 1-2, 6pts, 7rbs, 3as, 1to, 2stls, 1blk

Best (13) 1-6, 0-1, 2pts, 1rb, 2as, 1stl

Jamison (21) 1-6, 2pts, 2rbs, 3as

Daniels (4) 0-1, 1rb, 1to

Bradley (9) 0-1, 1as, 1blk

Howard (6) 0-1, 1blk

[Simon2]

Some questions on the game:

1. Why didn't Nellie call a timeout and let Walker take a long three?
2. Why did Fin get 40 mins?
3. Why did Jamison get only 20 mins?
4. Where was Bradley? He was definitely impacting the game when he was in there?
5. Isn't Best the only legitimate pg after Nash? Delk isn't a pg.
6. Where was Fortson again?
7. Why aren't the Mavs pushing the ball?

[dirno2000]

Just saw Nellie on the post game show. When asked if Dirk got the shots he needs down the stretch, he said that on a couple of ocassions he called Dirk's play, but Dirk didn't go to the area. Nellie said he may have been tired and wanted someone else to take the shot. Dirk may have been pissed by that point. Again, if he doesn't have problems in that locker room, he will soon.

[Murphy3]

the mavs at least looked better defensively....did a good job of getting the ball to the hot man in the first half
Good job by Najera tonight.

Walker..well, I don't know what to say..you racked up some assists and rebounded the ball like a mad man.. but, you shot like crap and turned the ball over 9-10 times.

great job by dirk, walker, najera, delk, and whoever else in the closing minutes....ugh
najera...passing up an easy look from 2 feet off of a great pass
dirk...missing a pass
walker...blowing an easy look
delk...poor management of time when the mavs had a chance to go 2 for 1

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
Just saw Nellie on the post game show. When asked if Dirk got the shots he needs down the stretch, he said that on a couple of ocassions he called Dirk's play, but Dirk didn't go to the area. Nellie said he may have been tired and wanted someone else to take the shot. Dirk may have been pissed by that point. Again, if he doesn't have problems in that locker room, he will soon.

well, this is disheartening...however, if it comes out of nellie's mouth there's no telling what the truth is.

[ShaggyDirk]

n

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
Just saw Nellie on the post game show. When asked if Dirk got the shots he needs down the stretch, he said that on a couple of ocassions he called Dirk's play, but Dirk didn't go to the area. Nellie said he may have been tired and wanted someone else to take the shot. Dirk may have been pissed by that point. Again, if he doesn't have problems in that locker room, he will soon.

This is BS Nellie calling out his players in the public. I hope Dirk speaks out and gets Nellie fired. Nellie is a scumbag for saying this.

[Murphy3]

This is BS Nellie calling out his players in the public. I hope Dirk speaks out and gets Nellie fired. Nellie is a scumbag for saying this.

You're jumping the gun a bit..perhaps it's true.

perhaps the offense didn't get set correctly....a little difficult to tell...perhaps it was an occasion where walker drove to the bucket quickly in the shot clock..perhaps dirk simply wasn't in the right spot

[MavsFanFinley]

2. Why did Fin get 40 mins?

I'm only taking a guess here, but I figure part of the reason is that Howard is still coming off the ankle sprain and Daniels had 3 fouls in 4 minutes.

Best is our only legit pg and Delk had to handle some of those duties. With Nash out, Nelson had to go with someone. Even if you're unhappy with Fin's play, Nelson went with experience over rookies.

3. Why did Jamison get only 20 mins?

Taking another guess here. Najera playing 30 minutes and producing probably contributed to Jamison's lack of minutes. Bradley even chipped in with 9 minutes. Dirk and Walker dominated the other front court minutes.

Looking at his stats, it looks like he didn't produce much either.

[Murphy3]

why'd the mavs lose?..turned the ball over too much and shot horribly from the field.

you can't turn the ball over that many damn times and expect to win

but, the rebounding and defense was solid throughout. I thought walker, najera and dirk all looked solid down low

[Murphy3]

ya know, it's getting kinda old hearing people bag on finley when others are making just as many mistakes

[LordOfTheMavs]

I was impressed with the defensive effort. I liked the energy. I liked the hustle. The effort was night and day compared to what we saw in Washington. I'm not nearly as embarrassed by this game as last game. We knew the offense was going to struggle to get into a flow with the new guys and add to that NO NASH and you have what you got. Walker was trying to force things and as a result got 9tos. He was a MAN on the glass and I was happy to see a Mavs team pound on the offense glass some possesion. Chalk this game up as another disappointing loss, but love the effort on defense and energy level was much better. You can question Nellies moves and nit-pick this one to death, but basically you have to realize that the Mavs have a long way to go on offense and we may have to wait on our offseason moves (which are unarguably good trades) to come to fruition either by further trades or by long term production.

Just remember...last time this year we were all bitching about Raef taking that big check for doing diddly squat and raggin NVE for chunking shots and getting the O out of sink.

Side Note: Dallas missed a crapload of easy layups and close shots. Nash's presence wouldn't have made those shots fall.

[LRB]

4. Where was Bradley? He was definitely impacting the game when he was in there?

Remember that Bradley isn't 100%. The last thing the Mavs want if for Shawn to get hurt and be out until after the 1st of the year. Shawn's knee could have started acting up. Najera was also playing very well tonight.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
ya know, it's getting kinda old hearing people bag on finley when others are making just as many mistakes

Here's Finley stats:
40 mins.
4-13 FGA
3 rbs.
1 Ast
0 steals
0 blocked shots
2 TOs.
11pts.

In 40 mins, this is all he comes up with? He's earning 100 mil. at least Dirk is producing on the points.

Against the Wizards, he was
36 mins.
3-13 FGA
4 rbs
5 asts
2 steals
0 blks
11 pts.

In two games, Finley isn't earning his keep at 100 mil. Maybe he's injured? Then he should sit out till he's better. His FG% is horrible and since the Mavs aren't a great offensive rebounding team, that gives the ball to the other team a lot more times.

[mavs_afroman]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
Just saw Nellie on the post game show. When asked if Dirk got the shots he needs down the stretch, he said that on a couple of ocassions he called Dirk's play, but Dirk didn't go to the area. Nellie said he may have been tired and wanted someone else to take the shot. Dirk may have been pissed by that point. Again, if he doesn't have problems in that locker room, he will soon.

This is all getting way too weird. He's hot in the 1st half but can't get a touch in the 3rd. Then Nellie says they called his play but he wasn't in position and may have wanted someone else to take the shot. That really doesn't sound like the way things went last year especially by the end of the seaon.

Somethings just not right. The game before Dirk looked like he could really care less. Finley has been off before, but not like this normally. I think the mavs have made one too many trades for Nellie to handle. This team is still the Big 3's team but I thnk Nellie is too caught up in this Big 5 thing and I don't think the Big 3 are too happy about it. They've all struggled somewhat so far. At least with Nash playing, he has the ball enough to control who gets the ball and where but without him both Finley and Dirk have started looking more and more unhappy.

Unless the Mavs find a way to get Kobe, T-mac, Shaq, or Duncan, 10 shots or so is not enough for finley and giving dirk the ball one half of a game but freezing him out the next is not going to get it either. Nellie has to find a way to get them the ball. This Big 5 crap has more than anything just taken the ball out of the hands of our best scorers who have had us 1st in scoring the last 2 yrs.

Antoine and Antawn could be great if nellie uses them play around the Big 3 but the Big 5 is overcrowded and has been a huge hindrance thus far.

[LRB]

Simon an NBA season is 82 games long. We've just barely begun this season. Over half our active roster was not a mav last year. Our star PG was out hurt tonight. Fin is coming back from an injury. And you show 2 back to back games that the Mavs as a team played absolutely horrible in as proof that he's done? And this 100 million is crap. Fin has a NBA max contract, but he's not being paid anywhere near 100 million for this year. Yes over several year he will receive 100 million. But the way you put it he has to earn it all this year.

This team is playing horrible right now and it's no one players fault. To try and place it on Fin is grossly unjust.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Simon2

Here's Finley stats:
40 mins.
4-13 FGA
3 rbs.
1 Ast
0 steals
0 blocked shots
2 TOs.
11pts.

In 40 mins, this is all he comes up with? He's earning 100 mil. at least Dirk is producing on the points.

Against the Wizards, he was
36 mins.
3-13 FGA
4 rbs
5 asts
2 steals
0 blks
11 pts.

In two games, Finley isn't earning his keep at 100 mil. Maybe he's injured? Then he should sit out till he's better. His FG% is horrible and since the Mavs aren't a great offensive rebounding team, that gives the ball to the other team a lot more times.

PLEASE don't overreact. It's ONLY BEEN SIX GAMES!

PLEASE STOP RIPPING FINLEY!

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

well, this is disheartening...however, if it comes out of nellie's mouth there's no telling what the truth is.

I have been wondering about Dirk's attitude this year. I think the big three are secretly pissed that Cuban blew up the team after getting to within six wins of a championship. I think they are not happy having to bring in new players and renew chemistry after being that close. I heard Fin say in an interview before the game that he was surprised Cuban did this, so it is definately in his thoughts. Nash is too nice to criticize anyone directly, but Dirk has hinted at his dissatisfaction with the attitude that he has had this year. I have never seen him like this if the above quote by Nellie is true. In his interviews he criticizes the team without mercy and at times has not given effort out on the court. This could be very disturbing for Mavs fans.

[ReDIRKulous]

Is it possible Dirk is injured? I know he scored a lot... but was it inside scoring? His rebounds have been very low. I wonder if he is injured and Nellie doesn't want that to be known? Nellie has done that before when Dirk was hurt also.. gave him a lot of shots early in the game but then went away from him after half-time because you get stiff after half-time when you have an injury.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: LRB
Simon an NBA season is 82 games long. We've just barely begun this season. Over half our active roster was not a mav last year. Our star PG was out hurt tonight. Fin is coming back from an injury. And you show 2 back to back games that the Mavs as a team played absolutely horrible in as proof that he's done? And this 100 million is crap. Fin has a NBA max contract, but he's not being paid anywhere near 100 million for this year. Yes over several year he will receive 100 million. But the way you put it he has to earn it all this year.

This team is playing horrible right now and it's no one players fault. To try and place it on Fin is grossly unjust.

Look, I'm not saying Finley is the cause of all the Mavs problems. I didn't say he was responsible. I'm just saying that he isn't helping right now. Will you at least admit that Finley isn't playing well? I guess I just expect more from the "leader" of the team.

[Mavs Rule]

I don't think Dirk is injured. I think he is just not giving the usual effort on the boards. WHY? My post above could be the answer.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Simon2

Look, I'm not saying Finley is the cause of all the Mavs problems. I didn't say he was responsible. I'm just saying that he isn't helping right now. Will you at least admit that Finley isn't playing well? I guess I just expect more from the "leader" of the team.

No, Fin is not playing very well right now. But the team as a whole and most of the individuals aren't either. Also Fin is learning a new role this year. So I will agree that he hasn't played well, but I feel that it is unfair to single him out. Give Fin a little time and he will straighten things out. Yes he is the leader, but even leaders occassionally experience slumps.

[LordOfTheMavs]

Hell people. Dirks rebounds are down because like tonight Walker grabbed 17 boards. Example: the play where Dirk and Walker fought over the rebound and it went out of bounds on the Mavs. Dirk tapped his chest as if to say "my bad". It is a new team and Walker/Jamison is snatching up a bunch of the defensive rebounds that Dirk used to get. Get used to it. Get over it. Dirks rebound numbers are not what is important. Is he injurred? That is just stupid. We lost. Our offense is out of sync due to having an entirely new team on the floor. Nash was out. That should be enough to explain what happened. Quit making up crap about Dirk being injured and locker room problems and Fin being unhappy about the trades. Knee-jerking rediculous statements at this point in the season. Hold off for a couple of weeks people. You sound pathetic right now.

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: LRB

No, Fin is not playing very well right now. But the team as a whole and most of the individuals aren't either. Also Fin is learning a new role this year. So I will agree that he hasn't played well, but I feel that it is unfair to single him out. Give Fin a little time and he will straighten things out. Yes he is the leader, but even leaders occassionally experience slumps.

Ok. How many more games will you give Fin till he straighten things out? Not being sarcastic, just curious.

[Murphy3]

Hell people. Dirks rebounds are down because like tonight Walker grabbed 17 boards. Example: the play where Dirk and Walker fought over the rebound and it went out of bounds on the Mavs. Dirk tapped his chest as if to say "my bad

You're exactly right. It's like griping about finley scoring 10 points when the Mavs score 130 or something.

It doesn't matter who gets the boards just that the Mavs get the boards. Right now, other people are contributing big time on the boards for the Mavs and that leaves less to go around for Dirk

[Max Power]

Originally posted by: Simon2

Ok. How many more games will you give Fin till he straighten things out? Not being sarcastic, just curious.

I like to give the team 10 games to settle in before I start to try to find trends. THIS year with the wholesale changes - 20 games.

I can't imagine being able to extrapolate anything about this team in less than 20 games.

[Murphy3]

ya know...general depression really slows down the volume of posts

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Max Power

I like to give the team 10 games to settle in before I start to try to find trends. THIS year with the wholesale changes - 20 games.

I can't imagine being able to extrapolate anything about this team in less than 20 games.

That sounds about right to me. Sure I'd like to see it sooner, but realisticly it's going to take a while. It will probably be 10 games until we're at where most teams started the season.

[bernardos70]

Then we have to listen to charles barkley on TNT during half time of the lakers-spurs game saying "I don't know what dallas is doing, I think that anyone who thinks they can win by outscoring other teams is STUPID; they got horrible rebounding, no defense, and you can't win like that." I think he somehow makes me dumber everytime I hear one of his ramblings. And *gasp*, but Kenny actually disagreed with him, though he didn't talk much.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: LordOfTheMavs
Hell people. Dirks rebounds are down because like tonight Walker grabbed 17 boards. Example: the play where Dirk and Walker fought over the rebound and it went out of bounds on the Mavs. Dirk tapped his chest as if to say "my bad". It is a new team and Walker/Jamison is snatching up a bunch of the defensive rebounds that Dirk used to get. Get used to it. Get over it. Dirks rebound numbers are not what is important. Is he injurred? That is just stupid. We lost. Our offense is out of sync due to having an entirely new team on the floor. Nash was out. That should be enough to explain what happened. Quit making up crap about Dirk being injured and locker room problems and Fin being unhappy about the trades. Knee-jerking rediculous statements at this point in the season. Hold off for a couple of weeks people. You sound pathetic right now.

Yes, others are getting alot of rebounds, but that does not answer why Dirk seems to be in the wrong spot alot, just as Nellie offerred. My "bad chemisty" possibility is not a knee jerk. There is evidence that I stated above that is disconcerting. Fin looks like he is worrying if he is going to be the next traded out of town, or if he is going to get phased out by the new players. That will put some REAL pressure on every shot! Nash and Dirk support Fin and see him getting less shots, less minutes, and they probably don't like it. They along with Nellie knows Fin thrives on heavy minutes and alot of shots to get him in rhythm.

There are many possible issues here that we can speculate on. How pathetic that some people on here discourage interesting speculation in favor of same old same old issues that have been discussed to death. Instead of offering there opinion of why they disagree, it quickly is labeled a "knee-jerk". When there is a direct quote on channel 21's pregame show that shows Finley was questioning the trade, why is it not fodder for discussion?

[Mandyahl]

it's cuz we are all of in our own corners crying...or at least i have been for the last hour.