I heard some interesting political talk on TheTicket this morning...

[Murphy3]

The Musers were discussing how society should now be focusing on supporting Obama now that the election is over... how Democrats will now be asking for Republicans to join them for the betterment of our country. Let's all sing a patriotic song and hug and kiss and just get on with healing our country. Personally, that sounds ok to me. I cannot imagine a scenario in which I would root for failure of a president.. especially just because of his political affiliation.

However, can anyone honestly say that Democrats did a heck of alot to support our current President? Do you think Janet Reno was cursing Bush every step of the way the past 8 years.. or do you think she got in the spirit of supporting a man because he is the President of the United States...... the leader of the free world. No, I'm not talking about supporting every decision that the guy makes.. but you know that millions of democrats were wishing for failure for the guy so that they could get a Democrat in office. It is this type of thinking that drives me absolutely insane.

Yeah, I do believe that we should support Obama and try not to curse him under our breaths once he's the President. It's not that hard for me considering I have no true party affiliation. Yes, I did happey to vote for McCain this time, but I am not a Republican. So yeah, Democrats will be asking for solidarity... Let's just hope that Republicans are better Americans than the Democrats have been for the past 8 years... and vice versa before that.

[Underdog]

I see no reason to support Obama if he takes us down the same path that Bush did (but you can't make judgments until he's acted)... I mean, nobody really had much of a problem with Bush until the war in Iraq - hell, pretty much everyone on the planet supported him during the immediate aftermath of 9/11...

Action speak louder than words - let's see what Obama does before we crucify or canonize him...



(just my rapidly-decreasing-in-value 2 cents...)

[Kirobaito]

Also, in his first four years in office, there was a pretty significant group of voters in the US that didn't think that Bush legitimately won the election, and it's not that difficult to understand where they're coming from, even if you don't agree with them. I still, yeah, think that the Supreme Court made the correct constitutional decision, but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow that Gore may have won more votes in Florida. So, I think you're much more likely to see people that "don't support the president" when they don't believe he had a right to be there in the first place.

[FINtastic]

However, can anyone honestly say that Democrats did a heck of alot to support our current President? Do you think Janet Reno was cursing Bush every step of the way the past 8 years.. or do you think she got in the spirit of supporting a man because he is the President of the United States...... the leader of the free world. No, I'm not talking about supporting every decision that the guy makes.. but you know that millions of democrats were wishing for failure for the guy so that they could get a Democrat in office. It is this type of thinking that drives me absolutely insane.

Janet Reno's a she?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Janet Reno's a she?

Are you making a joke about our forum user of approximately the same name or are you being serious?


(I always though Ms. Chokesondick from South Park resembled the real-life ex-Attorney General...)

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

So yeah, Democrats will be asking for solidarity... Let's just hope that Republicans are better Americans than the Democrats have been for the past 8 years... and vice versa before that.

I think republicans will be more likely to reach across the isle for solidarity. I think McCain will (still) be the first one across. I also think that, unfortunately, it will mean concessions and policy support, rather than moral support, and that alexamenos will end up with a hernia. I also also think that the next time a republican is elected president, the cross-isle solidarity (both types) will dwindle .

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I see no reason to support Obama if he takes us down the same path that Bush did (but you can't make judgments until he's acted)... I mean, nobody really had much of a problem with Bush until the war in Iraq - hell, pretty much everyone on the planet supported him during the immediate aftermath of 9/11...

Action speak louder than words - let's see what Obama does before we crucify or canonize him...



(just my rapidly-decreasing-in-value 2 cents...)

I agree wholeheartedly with this. While there isn't any reason to needlessly bash him, he shouldn't be above criticism. At this point though, we have to at least give him a chance to do something before we can pass much judgment one way or another on him. At the very least, I'm interested to see what he's going to do.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Are you making a joke about our forum user of approximately the same name or are you being serious?


(I always though Ms. Chokesondick from South Park resembled the real-life ex-Attorney General...)

I don't even know which one Murph is talking about to be honest. But doesn't our forum member spell it with an extra 't'? So I figured he was going for the person that threw some of the most wicked dance parties in the history of ever.

[92bDad]

Thus the problems with the 2 party system.

I have stated several times that I hope I am WRONG about Obama and the Democrats and I have just posted it again.

With my faith, I Humbly submit to the Authority that God has placed before me. On that same note, I will question everything that is presented about our politicians. I will question the Media in reporting the WHOLE truth. I am digging in for what I believe will be a difficult four years and I Pray that we can effectively make a change at that time.

I am tolerant of what is taking place, but I refuse to sacrifice my boundaries. On that note, if under Obama and the Democratic leadership we see the following:

* Lower Taxes to ALL
* Less government
* Increased National Defense
* Increased Intelligence (Militarily speaking)
* Support for Pro-Life
* Support for Straight Marriage
* Protection of Inheritance to the families of those who pass away after living and earning wealth
* Protection of State's Rights
* Increased opportunities for all - doing away with "Quota's that are ethnically based"
* Keeping Gun Owners rights
* Supporting Free Speech - not squelching talk radio
* Supporting a stronger Domestic Oil solution
* Supporting true alternative energy - such as wind, electric
* Stop the illusion of man-created climate change and stop wasting money on this issue
* Support major educational choices, but keep government OUT of Homeschooling and Faithbased programs


I'm sure I could run through other topics...but if Obama follows this plan then I would be more than happy to support him in 2012...anything short and I will be looking for change in 2012. Again, I don't trust the Democrats to follow any of these, they have proposed the complete opposite of what I support and stand for. Needless to say, again, based on my faith, I am humbled and ready to be open...above is a glimpse of what I am looking for and thus the direction I will vote in 2010 and beyond.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I agree wholeheartedly with this. While there isn't any reason to needlessly bash him, he shouldn't be above criticism. At this point though, we have to at least give him a chance to do something before we can pass much judgment one way or another on him. At the very least, I'm interested to see what he's going to do.

By support, I don't mean that we agree with everything that he does.. But what I've seen in the past 8 years from Democrats is this.. Many wished for the failure of the President of the United States even if that failure had a negative impact on our country. No, I'm not saying that we agree with everything that Obama does... not at all. I'm just saying that Democrats will be asking Republicans to do something that they were not willing to do in the least...

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

But what I've seen in the past 8 years from Democrats is this.. Many wished for the failure of the President of the United States even if that failure had a negative impact on our country.

I never met a Democrat who wished failure upon the president at the expense of our country - only those who wished to replace Bush with someone less failure-prone (because our current economic crisis comes as no surprise to some folks...)

You're talking about anarchists...

[Arne]

I find it funny that people actually think that it's their duty to support the president, because they lost in an election horse race. It just shows how seriously people really take the issues they're voting for. I'm with JFK on that one:

"Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive."

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I never met a Democrat who wished failure upon the president at the expense of our country - only those who wished to replace Bush with someone less failure-prone (because our current economic crisis comes as no surprise to some folks...)

You're talking about anarchists...

I have heard a few republicans who said they would vote for Obama with the expectation (hope?) that he will hurt the country enough that it will wake up the republican party (ie, move toward the ideas of the protest voter)

edit: and I've known and seen and heard of plenty of Democrats who fantasized about assassination over the last few years, and of those who's criticism reached such a level that it was, itself, detrimental to the country.

[kg_veteran]

I think there's a way to debate and be critical of policy positions while maintaining respect for the office of President and without descending into nasty personal attacks.

One of the lasting negative impacts of the latter Clinton years and then the 2000 election was that respect for the office of President seems to have vanished, and the ability to disagree with policies WITHOUT spewing venom toward the person seems to have disappeared as well.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Arne

I find it funny that people actually think that it's their duty to support the president, because they lost in an election horse race. It just shows how seriously people really take the issues they're voting for. I'm with JFK on that one:

"Without debate, without criticism, no administration and no country can succeed -- and no republic can survive."

I'm all for debate and criticism. You're kinda missing the point of my post. The president should obviously be scrutinized heavily at every turn. It's a powerful position. Please don't think that I'm saying that he should get a free pass and everyone should love him. But, there is so little respect for the position anymore. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing. That's all. I believe that people actively wished for failure of our current president even if it meant that it would negatively impact our country. To me, that type of thinking is just silly.

But to debate and criticize... I love the hell out of both. So yeah, anyone that wants to debate and criticize,... go for it.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I have heard a few republicans who said they would vote for Obama with the expectation (hope?) that he will hurt the country enough that it will wake up the republican party (ie, move toward the ideas of the protest voter)

edit: and I've known and seen and heard of plenty of Democrats who fantasized about assassination over the last few years, and of those who's criticism reached such a level that it was, itself, detrimental to the country.

Yep, to argue otherwise would be foolish. It's obviously out there. And to me, it's just sad and pathetic.

[kg_veteran]

But, there is so little respect for the position anymore. Personally, I don't think that's a good thing. That's all. I believe that people actively wished for failure of our current president even if it meant that it would negatively impact our country. To me, that type of thinking is just silly.

Exactly.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I have heard a few republicans who said they would vote for Obama with the expectation (hope?) that he will hurt the country enough that it will wake up the republican party (ie, move toward the ideas of the protest voter)

edit: and I've known and seen and heard of plenty of Democrats who fantasized about assassination over the last few years, and of those who's criticism reached such a level that it was, itself, detrimental to the country.

Well, you're talking about individuals in both cases... They don't represent the whole - they represent the fringe...


"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters."
—Dwight D. Eisenhower

"This is a time for courage and a time of challenge. Neither conformity nor complacency will do. Neither fanatics nor the faint-hearted are needed. And our duty as a Party is not to our Party alone, but to the Nation, and, indeed to all mankind. Our duty is not merely the preservation of political power but the preservation of peace and freedom."
—John F. Kennedy

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Well, you're talking about individuals in both cases... They don't represent the whole - they represent the fringe...


"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters."
—Dwight D. Eisenhower

"This is a time for courage and a time of challenge. Neither conformity nor complacency will do. Neither fanatics nor the faint-hearted are needed. And our duty as a Party is not to our Party alone, but to the Nation, and, indeed to all mankind. Our duty is not merely the preservation of political power but the preservation of peace and freedom."
—John F. Kennedy

This confusion is my fault. I kinda flip flopped back and forth a bit. I used the term "Democrats" at times.. some could imply that I meant all "Democrats".. Obviously, there aren't alot of scenarios in which you can lump all of any major category such as this into one group with total agreement.. or a total sameness of actions. It wasn't my intent to lump every Democrat together. However, I can see how such could be implied.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

This confusion is my fault. I kinda flip flopped back and forth a bit. I used the term "Democrats" at times.. some could imply that I meant all "Democrats".. Obviously, there aren't alot of scenarios in which you can lump all of any major category such as this into one group with total agreement.. or a total sameness of actions. It wasn't my intent to lump every Democrat together. However, I can see how such could be implied.

I think it would serve both Democrats & Republicans well to distance themselves from fringe thinkers - America has always functioned best in the middle ground...

United we stand, divided we fall (and all that jazz...)

[92bDad]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think it would serve both Democrats & Republicans well to distance themselves from fringe thinkers - America has always functioned best in the middle ground...

United we stand, divided we fall (and all that jazz...)

Funny how you and I kind of agree on several things...I even agree that my way of communicating is a bit off base, if not way out there...but the core of what we are looking is not all that divided.

Cue up the band...kick in the Rob Holford vocals "United, United, United we stand"

That was great UD...keep the rock anthems coming!!!