2016 NBA Finals

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

At basketball?

Haha. I'll emphasize the "IMO." If Kyrie had grown with the Warriors the way Steph has we'd all be discussing him as an all-time great. Steph is the best shooter in the league, but Kyrie has better handles, finishes at the basket better, and is able to get contested shots off better... All while being four years younger. When he hits his prime in a few years he will be unguardable.

These playoffs Kyrie is shooting better than Steph (48.2% vs 44.8) while averaging the same amount of points (25.3) and nearly half the amount of turnovers (4.2 vs. 2.3). Again, he's four years younger. So yeah, give me Kyrie.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

The Cavs were allowed to do whatever that wanted, and Steph was ticky tacked out of the game.

This. Can't believe no one has mentioned how they've let the Cavs manhandle them- while calling ticky tack on Curry

Problem for GS is who do they turn to? Bogut out hurts. He can't consistently get it done anymore but is still their best rim protector and has his moments. Ezelli and Varajao are shells of their former selves. Speights is too slow.

[mac222b]

LeBron was great. Props. But Iggy could barely walk out there. And no Bogut.

[mac222b]

Cavs just look like they want it more. Klay looks a little rattled. Barnes is invisible. Draymond clanging bricks. GSW needs to show some scrap and hustle. They seem to act like they can turn on the jets whenever. Shit just got real. Please, Warriors i beg of you. on behalf of NBA fans everywhere. Please don't let JR Smith win a ring on your home court.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

This. Can't believe no one has mentioned how they've let the Cavs manhandle them- while calling ticky tack on Curry

Problem for GS is who do they turn to? Bogut out hurts. He can't consistently get it done anymore but is still their best rim protector and has his moments. Ezelli and Varajao are shells of their former selves. Speights is too slow.

I intend to watch the game again, but honestly I didn't see it that way at all. It looked to me like the Cavs had more than their fair share of BS calls as well, and the fouls I saw on Curry seemed perfectly legit. Sure, they were they kind of "ticky tack" fouls that usually don't get called on superstars, but from what I saw they were indeed fouls. He just played stupidly, always gambling trying to get the steal when he should have just focused on staying in front of his man and contesting the shot. I might see it differently on a second viewing, but right now I don't get the outrage about GSW getting "manhandled."

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by tap2390

Haha. I'll emphasize the "IMO." If Kyrie had grown with the Warriors the way Steph has we'd all be discussing him as an all-time great. Steph is the best shooter in the league, but Kyrie has better handles, finishes at the basket better, and is able to get contested shots off better... All while being four years younger. When he hits his prime in a few years he will be unguardable.

These playoffs Kyrie is shooting better than Steph (48.2% vs 44.8) while averaging the same amount of points (25.3) and nearly half the amount of turnovers (4.2 vs. 2.3). Again, he's four years younger. So yeah, give me Kyrie.

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I intend to watch the game again, but honestly I didn't see it that way at all. It looked to me like the Cavs had more than their fair share of BS calls as well, and the fouls I saw on Curry seemed perfectly legit. Sure, they were they kind of "ticky tack" fouls that usually don't get called on superstars, but from what I saw they were indeed fouls. He just played stupidly, always gambling trying to get the steal when he should have just focused on staying in front of his man and contesting the shot. I might see it differently on a second viewing, but right now I don't get the outrage about GSW getting "manhandled."

Tristan Thompson is allowed to push and grab and camp in the lane. There was one play where he pushed Klay down low and he missed a layup couldnt believe they didnt call it. Garretson made the call on Curry, the clean steal which would've been a layup, from the other side of the court shielded while another had a better angle. The last Curry foul call was terrible too. LeBron flopped into Curry.

Maybe manhandled was a bit strong. I definitely think the games have gotten more physical and that has benefited Cleveland. The calls skewed their way in this one IMO. That said, GS needs to man the F' up

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Cavs just look like they want it more. Klay looks a little rattled. Barnes is invisible. Draymond clanging bricks. GSW needs to show some scrap and hustle. They seem to act like they can turn on the jets whenever. Shit just got real. Please, Warriors i beg of you. on behalf of NBA fans everywhere. Please don't let JR Smith win a ring on your home court.

This shit is like Hillary vs. Trump.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Please, Warriors i beg of you. on behalf of NBA fans everywhere. Please don't let JR Smith win a ring on your home court.

Smith is a bonehead, but I see Green as a much bigger punk. I'm just waiting for him to come out in game 7 and just start punching everyone in the dick. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go full Andrew Golota mode with the championship on the line. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjoYl5aTWdw

Karl Malone was the Mailman. David Robinson was the Admiral. Kobe Bryant was Black Mamba. Draymond Green is the Cock Knocker.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Maybe manhandled was a bit strong. I definitely think the games have gotten more physical and that has benefited Cleveland. The calls skewed their way in this one IMO. That said, GS needs to man the F' up

This is where I'm at as well. I think Cleveland has been allowed to get away with a lot more physical game resulting in Curry and Thompson not getting their normal shots. The main thing about this is that it is in direct opposition of what the league's stated goal of "opening up more movement". And it seems the deeper in the playoff you go, the worse it's become. I just told the wife last night that I have no idea what a foul is right now and no hope of knowing how the refs are going to call the game. Yes, Curry fouled ... but seriously those were touch fouls and nothing compared to what Curry and Thompson have had to deal with.

On top of those fouls, the moving screens are absolutely insane! The players can practically run up and hug the defender right now.

However, all that said, if Curry is a legit MVP, he needs to MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. He seriously needs to step up, man up, whatever you want to call it. He's got to figure out a way to force the defense to back off his shot. And this should have happened 3 or 4 games ago honestly. Lebron trash talking (flaunting tech foul???) is a huge indication of where Curry's head is at right now ... afraid to even look at Lebron. Hell, Curry should just get into it with Lebron and have them both kicked out of the game. GS wins easily at that point.

[EricaLubarsky]

Just a fine for Steph. 25k and no suspension for throwing his mouth guard that hit someone in the audience

[DevinHarriswillstart]

GS's game is predicated on a wild and almost out of control offense that works because of the talent. But once those threes stop draining, then it starts to look really ugly. And Cleveland took huge advantage of some of those careless turnovers.

And it's rather amusing people complaining that Cleveland is being too physical. This is the finals. It will be physical. I don't agree with some of those ticky tack fouls called on Curry, but outside of that, I really don't see some huge advantage Cleveland has in physical play. They are just playing more physical from what I see.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

This is where I'm at as well. I think Cleveland has been allowed to get away with a lot more physical game resulting in Curry and Thompson not getting their normal shots. The main thing about this is that it is in direct opposition of what the league's stated goal of "opening up more movement". And it seems the deeper in the playoff you go, the worse it's become. I just told the wife last night that I have no idea what a foul is right now and no hope of knowing how the refs are going to call the game. Yes, Curry fouled ... but seriously those were touch fouls and nothing compared to what Curry and Thompson have had to deal with.

On top of those fouls, the moving screens are absolutely insane! The players can practically run up and hug the defender right now.

However, all that said, if Curry is a legit MVP, he needs to MAKE THINGS HAPPEN. He seriously needs to step up, man up, whatever you want to call it. He's got to figure out a way to force the defense to back off his shot. And this should have happened 3 or 4 games ago honestly. Lebron trash talking (flaunting tech foul???) is a huge indication of where Curry's head is at right now ... afraid to even look at Lebron. Hell, Curry should just get into it with Lebron and have them both kicked out of the game. GS wins easily at that point.

Agree and good point about the moving screens. Again, Tristan Thompson is allowed to move, grab, push in a way that the other players aren't. He's playing extremely well, don't get me wrong. But I think I counted one moving screen called on him the whole night. Not sure what adjustment the Warriors can make. Ezelli is pretty worthless. They just have to go small with occasional doses of Varajao. Assuming Iggy is moderately ok

[Thespiralgoeson]

Just watched the game again in its entirety. This time I payed very close attention to the officiating, and.... I still don't get what everyone is complaining about. In fact, I thought the officiating favored GSW through most of the game. Yeah, Tristan Thompson got away with some moving screens, but then they called him for it about 3 minutes into the 4th and didn't see him do it again. Green on the other hand did it throughout the whole game and never got called for it once and Varajao got away with murder the whole time he was out there. The Cavs played physical, yes, but the Dubs gave as good as they got, and they got more than their fair share of favorable calls and non-calls- Lebron got flat out mugged on a few plays, and probably should have ended the game with 46 points instead of 41.

Curry's fouls specifically were perfectly acceptable in my eyes- with one notable exception.

Foul #1- He does an idiotic, inexplicable shoulder takedown on Tristan Thompson. No question here.

Foul #2- An absolutely stupid blocking foul. He basically hip checks Lebron. Again, no question.

Foul #3- Foolishly gambles on a steal that he had no chance of getting. Maybe a little "ticky tack" but still perfectly reasonable, and entirely his fault.

Foul #4- This is the one that I can see being upset about. Love grabs a rebound, Curry hits him on the arm and gets called for a loose ball. This is the definition of "ticky tack" and probably should have been a no call.

Foul #5- Tries to steal the ball from Irving and gets called. Van Gundy and crew complain that it's a clean steal, but I couldn't disagree more. I watched the replay multiple times, and I think Curry not only fouled Irving on this pay, but actually fouled him two or three times. Again, foolish gamble. Curry's fault.

Foul #6- Once again gambles on a steal- he clearly hits Lebron's hands and actually doesn't get called for it, then when the two make minor contact afterward (and no, Lebron absolutely did not "flop into him"), Curry trips Lebron up, Curry gets called. The actual foul that was called was again "ticky tack" but still reasonable, and Curry actually fouled Lebron twice in this sequence. And it was once again the result of Curry taking a very stupid chance on a steal instead of just trying to play solid defense.

So yeah, the Warriors don't get one shred of sympathy from me. The fact is, they just got their asses handed to them fair and square. I'm not saying there were no bad calls, or that Cleveland didn't catch any breaks, but it was hardly this lopsided affair some people seem to think.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

GS's game is predicated on a wild and almost out of control offense that works because of the talent. But once those threes stop draining, then it starts to look really ugly. And Cleveland took huge advantage of some of those careless turnovers.

And it's rather amusing people complaining that Cleveland is being too physical. This is the finals. It will be physical. I don't agree with some of those ticky tack fouls called on Curry, but outside of that, I really don't see some huge advantage Cleveland has in physical play. They are just playing more physical from what I see.

+rep

[mac222b]

Spiral, you're one of the best posters on here but I couldn't disagree with you more on some of these. Curry's steal was clearly all ball. Watched the replay many times. You neglected to mention Ronnie Garretson making the call he couldn't possibly have seen!

LeBron fell into Steph on the last foul. I honestly do not know how it can be seen any other way. He even did a little flailing thing to try to sell it.

[GhostFace]

Here is a closer look at the 5th foul. He reached once and did not get called, http://i.imgur.com/6duDqfQ.png

He then reaches against, across the body and gets called, http://i.imgur.com/qG7kSa1.png


I found these on /r/nba.

On that 6th foul, why is he even trying for steal that far out and with 5 fouls? Did he not think if he kept reaching the refs wouldn't call a foul?

Sometimes I think the refs try and make up for bad calls made through out the games, especially those phantom calls on KLove. Even then, were the refs responsible for the rest of the Warriors not showing up at all? Curry still had 30 on the night.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by GhostFace

Here is a closer look at the 5th foul. He reached once and did not get called, http://i.imgur.com/6duDqfQ.png

He then reaches against, across the body and gets called, http://i.imgur.com/qG7kSa1.png


I found these on /r/nba.

On that 6th foul, why is he even trying for steal that far out and with 5 fouls? Did he not think if he kept reaching the refs wouldn't call a foul?

Sometimes I think the refs try and make up for bad calls made through out the games, especially those phantom calls on KLove. Even then, were the refs responsible for the rest of the Warriors not showing up at all? Curry still had 30 on the night.

If you watch the play kyrie's body follows through and hits his arm. It was a clean strip. The foul where he grazes Loves arm was a bad call. And the 6th foul I agree it was dumb of him but LeBron totally flops forward and tries to make it look like there was contact.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mac222b

If you watch the play kyrie's body follows through and hits his arm. It was a clean strip

Dunno what else to say. I watched the play like ten times. There's at least two fouls there. Curry's hands are all over Irving before the whistle. And considering he was already in heavy foul trouble, it was just boneheaded to try it in the first place.

And the 6th foul I agree it was dumb of him but LeBron totally flops forward and tries to make it look like there was contact.

Watch it again very closely. In fact, watch all the fouls again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVKBIS0TM0

If that's a flop, then Lebron deserves an Oscar, because I'm convinced. Lebron is already moving forward on one leg tyring to get the ball before Curry makes contact. Curry runs up from behind and basically gets underneath him, their legs get tangled, and Curry trips Lebron. Honestly, it doesn't even matter whether Lebron flopped or not- it's still a foul. In a pivotal finals game with the two-time MVP already having 5 fouls, you would think they would just let it slide, but it IS a foul. And this is setting aside the fact that Curry clearly fouled Lebron right before that on the attempted steal (which he didn't even get anyway)- and you yourself just admitted that it was dumb of Curry to take the chance in the first place. It's dumb in any game to gamble on a steal when you're in foul trouble. When you're the reigning two-time MVP, and its an elimination game in the NBA finals, it's just idiotic. Curry had a brain fart, and he's got no excuses and nobody to blame but himself.

Originally Posted by GhostFace

Here is a closer look at the 5th foul. He reached once and did not get called, http://i.imgur.com/6duDqfQ.png

He then reaches against, across the body and gets called, http://i.imgur.com/qG7kSa1.png


I found these on /r/nba.

On that 6th foul, why is he even trying for steal that far out and with 5 fouls? Did he not think if he kept reaching the refs wouldn't call a foul?

This is exactly where I'm at, and those pictures only tell half the story. They don't show Curry's hands all over Irving before the whistle.

[tap2390]

I gotta agree with TSGO... the calls weren't nearly as egregious as a lot of people (cough Ayesha Curry cough) are making them out to be. No one talks about Kevin Love picking up 3 fouls in 3 minutes because the Cavs won. That being said I understand the frustration, if you're a superstar you expect some leeway, which Lebron seems to get more than Curry this series. Then again, Warriors had 11 points in the first and aren't responding to injuries as well as the Cavs did in last years Finals. IMO it's 95% Warriors needs to man up and face adversity like a team that won 73 games and 5% Cavs getting away with more than them.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I intend to watch the game again, but honestly I didn't see it that way at all. It looked to me like the Cavs had more than their fair share of BS calls as well, and the fouls I saw on Curry seemed perfectly legit. Sure, they were they kind of "ticky tack" fouls that usually don't get called on superstars, but from what I saw they were indeed fouls. He just played stupidly, always gambling trying to get the steal when he should have just focused on staying in front of his man and contesting the shot. I might see it differently on a second viewing, but right now I don't get the outrage about GSW getting "manhandled."

I think he gambles so carelessly because he really cant guard/defend that well.

[Melonhead]

I dont think GS pulls this out tomorrow. No inside presence, which is what gave them fits vs OKC. OKC just happens to be stupid and cant close out. Bogut out, Iggy's back wont hold up, Ezeli is a liability, and Varejao is good in small doses. The 3 ball is a cure all, but theyre going to need a ton of them.

BTW, Barnes is absolute garbage. Dallas better not look his way or Ezeli. I was wrong on Ezeli earlier in the season. But Barnes is shooting 30% on shots where no defender is within TEN FEET of him. Dhantay Jones had more points (5) in his small stretch last game as Barnes in the last 2 games combined

[EricaLubarsky]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BGxmnQ3rYNn/

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

I dont think GS pulls this out tomorrow. No inside presence, which is what gave them fits vs OKC. OKC just happens to be stupid and cant close out. Bogut out, Iggy's back wont hold up, Ezeli is a liability, and Varejao is good in small doses. The 3 ball is a cure all, but theyre going to need a ton of them.

BTW, Barnes is absolute garbage. Dallas better not look his way or Ezeli. I was wrong on Ezeli earlier in the season. But Barnes is shooting 30% on shots where no defender is within TEN FEET of him. Dhantay Jones had more points (5) in his small stretch last game as Barnes in the last 2 games combined

Iggy's back is the biggest x-factor in the whole game. If he's close to 100%, the Dubs have a huge advantage, because he's by far the best defender on Lebron. If he's still hobbled and moving around like he did in game 6, GSW loses most of their defensive versatility.

Also, oddly enough I'm a bit worried about the officiating tonight. I wonder how the refs will respond to the controversy over game 6- are they going to let the Warriors, Curry in particular, get away with murder? Are they going to start calling anything and everything and neutralize Cleveland's physical play? NBA refs have a strange way of responding to complaints- they tend overcompensate. I'm reminded of the 2011 WCF when Dirk went off for 48 in game 1, after two games people started complaining that you couldn't touch Dirk at all, and then game 3 ended up being a putrid low-scoring affair because the refs wouldn't call anything.

Also I'm anxious to see what GSW's other shooters do tonight. The Cavs have won the past two games in part because they successfully contested most of the Splash Bros' shots and dared some of the other guys to shoot. If Barnes, Iggy, Green or anyone else start hitting some threes, that changes the whole dynamic.

Overall I think the odds still have to favor GSW, but the Cavs do seem to have them figured out and have them on the run. And seriously, who the hell would have thought this was going to go to game 7? Count me excited.

[GhostFace]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Also, oddly enough I'm a bit worried about the officiating tonight. I wonder how the refs will respond to the controversy over game 6- are they going to let the Warriors, Curry in particular, get away with murder? Are they going to start calling anything and everything and neutralize Cleveland's physical play? NBA refs have a strange way of responding to complaints- they tend overcompensate. I'm reminded of the 2011 WCF when Dirk went off for 48 in game 1, after two games people started complaining that you couldn't touch Dirk at all, and then game 3 ended up being a putrid low-scoring affair because the refs wouldn't call anything.

This is what I'm looking for tonight, to see how the refs respond to the criticism. I'd like to see the Cavs win, but I have a feeling GSW will take it. Role players have always proven to play better at home. I do agree that if Iggy it Barnes starts hitting shots it will be rough for the Cavs. With Bogut injured, I really want to see the Cavs on full attack mode, just hitting the rim every possession.

Also that quote by Curry's wife? Give me a break. The Warriors are the last team that should complain about shit being rigged.

No one gave a fuck when Wade got those bullshit calls in 2006 and I have no sympathy for Warriors fan crying about this foul and that foul. Curry has been treated like the king of the NBA. Kerr can do no wrong and Green can hammer a dudes nuts and still not get suspended.

I hope LeBron Dad Dicks these mofos tonight.

[Thespiralgoeson]

GSW shooting lights out as usual, but Cavs still one point ahead. Not sure what to think about that. The Cavs gotta feel good so far, but if the Dubs are going to shoot that way all night, the Cavs are in trouble.

[Thespiralgoeson]

The Cavs are screwed if they keep leaving Green wide open.

[EricaLubarsky]

Warriors aren't nearly as good with Iggy playing injured

[EricaLubarsky]

Curry got mauled four times but the NBA got the block they wanted in the end

[Thespiralgoeson]

So... do the Cavs just not even want to guard Green?

[tap2390]

The donkey from Shrek is on fire.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Warriors win. I'm calling it right now. They look like themselves again, and the Cavs just look confused.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Now THAT was a terrible call on Curry. No foul whatsoever.

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Now THAT was a terrible call on Curry. No foul whatsoever.

I thought it was blatant.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by tap2390

I thought it was blatant.

The Cavs player comes into him and rolls over his back. How is that a foul on Curry?

[Thespiralgoeson]

Cavs are 1-14 from three. Dubs are 10-21. Pretty much tells the story of these two teams. Win or lose tonight, if the Cavs want to continue to be legit contenders, they desperately need more shooters.

[EricaLubarsky]

The NBA is rigged. Good lord.

[EricaLubarsky]

Warriors are getting mauled inside. Cavs walking to the line on the other side

[EricaLubarsky]

Don't even have a dog in this race but these finals are so rigged. Unbelievably biased refs

[tap2390]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

The Cavs player comes into him and rolls over his back. How is that a foul on Curry?

What I saw was Shumpert trying to set a pick and Curry undercutting him preventing him from getting position. Considering that Kerr didn't argue the call I think it was correct.

[EricaLubarsky]

Kyrie clearing out with the off hand. So obvious and yet the NBA clearly wants a Cavs win