GDT: Mavericks @ Suns, Dec. 6, 9:30 p.m. central

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Our useful depth at sf is Vince carter.... That's it. Wrights a better pf than any other sf option we have. And he's been much better than brand this year.

Dahntay and Jae are both usable at SF as well, even if Dahntay's usefulness is a bit matchup-dependent and Jae's still a bit of a wild-card. I see no reason that the Mavs can't look for 30+ mpg out of the trio of those two and Vince at SF if they need it, which puts Marion in a position to play 12-20 minutes at PF. At any rate, my only point is that he should be accounted for when assessing the Mavs' PF depth.

And in case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I don't disagree that he's been better than Brand. Still holding out hope that Elton can start to find a groove when Dirk makes it back, though.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Dahntay and Jae are both usable at SF as well, even if Dahntay's usefulness is a bit matchup-dependent and Jae's still a bit of a wild-card. I see no reason that the Mavs can't look for 30+ mpg out of the trio of those two and Vince at SF if they need it, which puts Marion in a position to play 12-20 minutes at PF. At any rate, my only point is that he should be accounted for when assessing the Mavs' PF depth.

And in case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I don't disagree that he's been better than Brand. Still holding out hope that Elton can start to find a groove when Dirk makes it back, though.

Jae and dahntay have both been absolutely terrible. I realize it's a small sample but so far everyone has a small sample. At this point the optimal minutes for the front court probably looks like this
C-kaman 26, brand 12, sarge 10
Pf-wright 28, Marion 12, brand 8
Sf-Marion 18, Vince 24, jae 6

Obviously you aren't going to be able to play it out perfectly like that but that's what I think we should be shooting for. I think dahntay will have a place once dirk is back but until then I think hes better off on the bench.

Edit-I'm not asking for wright to get 35 minutes a game and honestly when dirk comes back I don't expect him to get 20 mins a game. But until that time, every game he doesn't get 24 minutes barring foul trouble is a mistake by carlisle

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Jae and dahntay have both been absolutely terrible.

For the season as a whole I just strongly disagree with that assessment.

At this point the optimal minutes for the front court probably looks like this
C-kaman 26, brand 12, sarge 10
Pf-wright 28, Marion 12, brand 8
Sf-Marion 18, Vince 24, jae 6

Obviously, I think you find a few more minutes for Jae/Dahntay at SF. I also think the Mavs are better off, particularly until Dirk gets back, with Kaman getting more like 30 if he can handle it. They need his scoring. And there are going to be at least a couple nights where matchups favor Sarge for more minutes, and hopefully a few where Elton finds a rhythm on offense, with Brandan's minutes taking a hit in either case. After all that, I'd say something in the range of 18-24 minutes for Brandan most nights (with a full crew minus Dirk) seems pretty reasonable.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

For the season as a whole I just strongly disagree with that assessment.

Obviously, I think you find a few more minutes for Jae/Dahntay at SF. I also think the Mavs are better off, particularly until Dirk gets back, with Kaman getting more like 30 if he can handle it. They need his scoring. And there are going to be at least a couple nights where matchups favor Sarge for more minutes, and hopefully a few where Elton finds a rhythm on offense, with Brandan's minutes taking a hit in either case. After all that, I'd say something in the range of 18-24 minutes for Brandan most nights (with a full crew minus Dirk) seems pretty reasonable.

For the season as a whole jae is avg 6 points 2.6 rebs and 1.2 assists on 39% shooting, 30pct 3pt shooting and 53% ft shooting in 20 mins a game. Dahntay has avged 2.7 points on 29%!!!!! Shooting, 23% 3pt shooting and 85% ft shooting in 11 mins a game

So between them in 30 mins a game they are avg 8.8 pts, 3.8 rbs, 2as and a turnover on 35% shooting, 27% 3pt shooting. Yes jae had a few moments early but on the season as a whole that is stunningly terrible.

Edit, jaes per is 10, jones' is 6.5. I'm a little surprised to see you defend them over wright given how much you usually use numbers gmc.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

For the season as a whole jae is avg 6 points 2.6 rebs and 1.2 assists on 39% shooting, 30pct 3pt shooting and 53% ft shooting in 20 mins a game. Dahntay has avged 2.7 points on 29%!!!!! Shooting, 23% 3pt shooting and 85% ft shooting in 11 mins a game

So between them in 30 mins a game they are avg 8.8 pts, 3.8 rbs, 2as and a turnover on 35% shooting, 27% 3pt shooting. Yes jae had a few moments early but on the season as a whole that is stunningly terrible.

With Dahntay you find him minutes because of the kind of defense he plays. Not a lot, but some, again depending on the matchup.

As for Jae, I'm well aware that his shot's in the $#!tter lately. My point is that if you take account of more than the last couple weeks, he's made positive contributions that to my mind merit further rotation minutes, conditional on how he's looking in practice and whether that's translating to production in his first shift of the night.

Edit to add: I'm not defending them over Wright, especially since I'm allowing for more minutes for him (with Dirk out) than the two of them combined would feasibly get. I'm simply advocating finding them some minutes at positions and in situations where they have and can contribute.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

With Dahntay you find him minutes because of the kind of defense he plays. Not a lot, but some, again depending on the matchup.

As for Jae, I'm well aware that his shot's in the $#!tter lately. My point is that if you take account of more than the last couple weeks, he's made positive contributions that to my mind merit further rotation minutes, conditional on how he's looking in practice and whether that's translating to production in his first shift of the night.

Edit to add: I'm not defending them over Wright, especially since I'm allowing for more minutes for him (with Dirk out) than the two of them combined would feasibly get. I'm simply advocating finding them some minutes at positions and in situations where they have and can contribute.

Fair enough. But my point has been how stupid it was of Carlisle to go ten games where he essentially didn't play wright. That deserves criticism and there continue to be people who seem to argue that it doesn't.

Also I completely understand that there will never and should never be a set amount of minutes that is unchangeable. Those minutes were meant to be an avg of what they would get.

As for jones I agree about the d but I think he will be much more useful once dirk is back

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Fair enough. But my point has been how stupid it was of Carlisle to go ten games where he essentially didn't play wright. That deserves criticism and there continue to be people who seem to argue that it doesn't.

It's certainly fair game for debate, but I'm one of those who thought it was a defensible strategy when Murphy was on the roster - for a wide range of reasons that go well beyond what Murphy himself provided on the court, which was undoubtedly less efficient than what Brandan himself would have provided in those minutes.