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Old 06-24-2022, 10:32 AM   #241
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Plus we?ve been spending so much on now guys that it?s easy to forget that good teams are always developing guys like Jordan Poole
Exactly, with Rick he had no patience to develop guys, Now guys, meant win now.....so the string on developing players are not going to be as long as for a team invested in developing players.

God Shammgod is 3 years into his job, with 1 under Kidd, there's probably a whole new system put into place on how Nico and Kidd would like the developmental system to work.
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Old 06-24-2022, 10:50 AM   #242
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Nico did his homework, hopefully kid comes to work with a chip on his shoulder.

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Old 06-24-2022, 01:28 PM   #243
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Mavs twitter losing their minds thinking Brunson will walk. I mean, I guess the Knicks don't do all of this if they don't have an inside track with Rose, the dad, etc.

Still don't think it happens, but if it did, the only person really to blame is Donnie. And I suppose Cuban for letting Donnie sign Brunson to that absurd contract.
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Old 06-24-2022, 02:21 PM   #244
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Annnd then Stein stirs up the pot.

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Old 06-24-2022, 02:26 PM   #245
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JB would still be the 3rd option in NY though wouldnt he? RJ Barrett and Julius Randle are their top 2. JB would be the lead guard, but wasn?t the Knicks last playoff series win in the 90?s? Going to be tough to lose JB for nothing if he walks.
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Old 06-24-2022, 02:27 PM   #246
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JD Shaw: The Dallas Mavericks are bringing free agent forward Justin Gorham to summer league, his agent Adie von Gontard tells @HoopsRumors. Gorham, 23, recently impressed at the team?s free-agent mini-camp. ? via Twitter JShawNBA
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Old 06-24-2022, 02:40 PM   #247
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If contradictory information comes out regarding JB's desire to stay or go, it could be Rick Brunson stirring the pot. He most certainly wants JB in NY and thereby might be trying to force the issue. In the end, it could very well be "will JB stand up to his father if he prefers to stay in Dallas or give in to the familial pressure". Put another way, is Papa Brunson willing to push his son to sign with the Knicks at all costs and will JB cave to those wishes?

A more diabolical reasoning would be "Is Daddy just wanting to milk every possible penny out of Cuban's pocket by leaking misinformation to the press?" In other words, they both know JB is going to stay in Dallas, but let's get the biggest possible paycheck.

Bottom line: It is difficult to interpret these statements in any meaningful way.
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Old 06-24-2022, 02:52 PM   #248
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If contradictory information comes out regarding JB's desire to stay or go, it could be Rick Brunson stirring the pot. He most certainly wants JB in NY and thereby might be trying to force the issue. In the end, it could very well be "will JB stand up to his father if he prefers to stay in Dallas or give in to the familial pressure". Put another way, is Papa Brunson willing to push his son to sign with the Knicks at all costs and will JB cave to those wishes?

A more diabolical reasoning would be "Is Daddy just wanting to milk every possible penny out of Cuban's pocket by leaking misinformation to the press?" In other words, they both know JB is going to stay in Dallas, but let's get the biggest possible paycheck.

Bottom line: It is difficult to interpret these statements in any meaningful way.
Stein doesn't screw around though and is easily the most reliable Mavs reporter. So if he is saying it's a real possibility, then I'm at least listening.

But we should all remember that this isn't the Donnie/Rick show anymore. Mavs are in a position of strength with or without Brunson. It would suck to lose him short term, but we just got an 18 ppg center that offsets Brunson's scoring whilst shooting 39% from three. And Hardy who is a potential Brunson replacement in the future. And Dinwiddie at the deadline. Previous FO would let Brunson walk and fill in the gap with a bunch of crap.

Point is, Nico gets stuff done. He'll pivot if and when that time comes.
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Old 06-24-2022, 03:22 PM   #249
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Why can?t it both be true?

Rick leaks that Jalen is listening and it?s not a complete deal so NY makes a big deal

Brunson wants to get I to the finals and finish what we started

Bigger offer from NY means more money for Jalen. He gets paid more AND returns to Dallas with his friends.
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Old 06-24-2022, 03:42 PM   #250
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It just needs to be an all hands on deck thing. Is Cuban gonna be filming shark tank? Luka playing overseas? If these guys really think Brunson makes them a contender, then they need to let him know and be there in the meeting. That stuff does make a difference when it comes down to the wire.

Still think he stays, but I want it to be our org prioritizing him like the Knicks seem to be doing. (and maybe they are)

Again though, we should ask ourselves. Can the Mavs make it back to the West finals without Brunson?
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Old 06-24-2022, 03:51 PM   #251
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Going to be in the minority here, but we might look back on Brunson walking (if he does) as the best thing to ever happen in the Luka era. He's just an odd fit here.
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Old 06-24-2022, 03:54 PM   #252
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It just needs to be an all hands on deck thing. Is Cuban gonna be filming shark tank? Luka playing overseas? If these guys really think Brunson makes them a contender, then they need to let him know and be there in the meeting. That stuff does make a difference when it comes down to the wire.

Still think he stays, but I want it to be our org prioritizing him like the Knicks seem to be doing. (and maybe they are)

Again though, we should ask ourselves. Can the Mavs make it back to the West finals without Brunson?
Who cares where Cuban is? Hopefully he?ll be doing his billionaire stuff. For every one good thing that Cuban does interfering I wonder how many things he?s messed up. 6? 8?

We have a decent GM now. Nico just needs to do his job.

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Old 06-24-2022, 04:30 PM   #253
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Going to be in the minority here, but we might look back on Brunson walking (if he does) as the best thing to ever happen in the Luka era. He's just an odd fit here.
He?s not the best fit next to Luka, but I don?t think if it came to it that Brunson would be seen as a negative trade asset down the line. I say run it back this season and see how well they play together. You just added Wood, possibly THJ, and whatever we round out the bench with.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:21 PM   #254
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My guess is, the stuff about JB leaving is just him and his people playing hardball with the Mavs, stoking the bidding war. I think he's letting them know that if the Mavs want to keep him, they will have to outbid the Knicks. He's not taking a home team discount.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:26 PM   #255
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To lose JB for nothing would suck...but mostly because he has the power to not do us dirty in the process. Not because I'll miss him terribly as a player.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:28 PM   #256
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Going to be in the minority here, but we might look back on Brunson walking (if he does) as the best thing to ever happen in the Luka era. He's just an odd fit here.
He is a useable and valuable asset that if he walks is by definition irreplaceable from a cap asset perspective. He might be a great trade piece in 2 or 3 years to get us the missing piece. Hard to do that if he is gone. The only thing that benefits by JB walking is Mark's immediate bank account.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:30 PM   #257
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Going to be in the minority here, but we might look back on Brunson walking (if he does) as the best thing to ever happen in the Luka era. He's just an odd fit here.
That may be true, but the problem is, the Mavs can't turn around and use that money to improve other parts of the roster. You either re-sign Brunson, or you lose him for nothing. That's it. I think losing him for nothing would be a massive step backwards and would be borderline catastrophic. From a purely basketball standpoint, and also from a perception standpoint. He was easily the second best player on the team this year, and next year he'll still be the second or third best player. You don't lose one of your top three players and not feel the pain.

Re-sign him. I don't care how much of an overpay it is. You can always shed salary if you need to. Every team has bad contracts. And if it turns out the team has better options in the future, then he is not untradeable, no matter how much he's getting paid. Far worse players on worse contracts than his get traded all the time.

If the Mavs can trade him and get something of value for him, I'm very eager to hear those options. But losing him for nothing is NOT an option the Mavs should remotely entertain.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:31 PM   #258
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He is a useable and valuable asset that if he walks is by definition irreplaceable from a cap asset perspective. He might be a great trade piece in 2 or 3 years to get us the missing piece. Hard to do that if he is gone. The only thing that benefits by JB walking is Mark's immediate bank account.
This. 100% this.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:23 PM   #259
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He is a useable and valuable asset that if he walks is by definition irreplaceable from a cap asset perspective. He might be a great trade piece in 2 or 3 years to get us the missing piece. Hard to do that if he is gone. The only thing that benefits by JB walking is Mark's immediate bank account.
Exactly, GSW signed and traded KD for a sign and traded Deangelo Russell, not the perfect fit next to Curry, but less than a year later morphed that salary slot into Andrew Wiggins and a 1st round pick. Wiggins playing a key role in....this year's title....and who knows that 1st round pick is Kuminga.....so to me, given the win now mentality with Luka, you have to max out your pieces and if JB wants 25 million per.....you give him 25.5 per.
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Old 06-24-2022, 07:36 PM   #260
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Exactly, GSW signed and traded KD for a sign and traded Deangelo Russell, not the perfect fit next to Curry, but less than a year later morphed that salary slot into Andrew Wiggins and a 1st round pick. Wiggins playing a key role in....this year's title....and who knows that 1st round pick is Kuminga.....so to me, given the win now mentality with Luka, you have to max out your pieces and if JB wants 25 million per.....you give him 25.5 per.
My worry is it sneaking up to $30MM just because some dumb ass team like the Knicks or Pistons has it and is stupid enough to offer it. At what AAV does Brunson start to become less appealing? Don't get me wrong, fully understand we won't be able to replace him, but damn, the rumored numbers are starting to get a little large.
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Old 06-24-2022, 10:06 PM   #261
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Going to be in the minority here, but we might look back on Brunson walking (if he does) as the best thing to ever happen in the Luka era. He's just an odd fit here.
Its hard to call the guy a odd fit when Luka got hurt he put up some good basketball. To the point that we probably don't even beat the Jazz if not for him. This team needs to dial back Luka's minutes as is.

I'm more disappointed if he walks for nothing.
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Old 06-24-2022, 10:09 PM   #262
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My worry is it sneaking up to $30MM just because some dumb ass team like the Knicks or Pistons has it and is stupid enough to offer it. At what AAV does Brunson start to become less appealing? Don't get me wrong, fully understand we won't be able to replace him, but damn, the rumored numbers are starting to get a little large.
I mean its tough but I have no issue with it. At this point I look at Brunson as a trade asset. We can't lose him for free. That's the one thing that can't happen.
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:02 AM   #263
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I mean its tough but I have no issue with it. At this point I look at Brunson as a trade asset. We can't lose him for free. That's the one thing that can't happen.
Precisely. If this were the Mavs of a couple of seasons ago that was struggling just to make the 7th seed, I might be more receptive to letting Brunson walk in the hopes of making better moves in the future. But the Mavs just made the conference finals. This team is ready to contend NOW. Now is exactly the time to overpay to keep the team together. Especially with the Wood trade. This is one of the two or three best teams in the conference. We could very well end up in the finals. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's very possible. Losing Brunson now would be a huge step backwards and would set us back multiple seasons. Pay him now, worry about the financial implications later.
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Old 06-25-2022, 09:55 AM   #264
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My worry is it sneaking up to $30MM just because some dumb ass team like the Knicks or Pistons has it and is stupid enough to offer it. At what AAV does Brunson start to become less appealing? Don't get me wrong, fully understand we won't be able to replace him, but damn, the rumored numbers are starting to get a little large.
Again if 30 million is what it takes there is no down side. Letting him walk doesn't free up powder and keeping him at whatever price is an asset that will have value down the road. Keep in mind that 30 today wont seem like 30 when the cap is 30 million higher in 4 years. This is a no brainer in my estimation and I for one dont give a flying F about Mark's wallet. He will be fine
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Old 06-25-2022, 10:05 AM   #265
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Precisely. If this were the Mavs of a couple of seasons ago that was struggling just to make the 7th seed, I might be more receptive to letting Brunson walk in the hopes of making better moves in the future. But the Mavs just made the conference finals. This team is ready to contend NOW. Now is exactly the time to overpay to keep the team together. Especially with the Wood trade. This is one of the two or three best teams in the conference. We could very well end up in the finals. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's very possible. Losing Brunson now would be a huge step backwards and would set us back multiple seasons. Pay him now, worry about the financial implications later.
I actually see the total opposite of this. If we were the 7th seed, then we NEED Brunson just to stay relevant. That's not the team now. We were still the 5th seed when Brunson was a nice 12 ppg backup pg two seasons ago who didn't show up in the playoffs.

Again, I want to keep Brunson at basically any cost, but I don't see the logic on it setting us so far back if he walks. Losing the future trade trip would be the biggest loss, but we weren't exactly a peasant team before his emergence.

Brunson was middling vs Phx and GS as well. I don't know if we're having this conversation on how badly we need him if it wasn't for the Jazz series. And yes, we don't even make it out of the first round without him. I just don't think we're back to the dark ages if he goes to NY.

I have every confidence in Nico to pivot to something else.
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:03 AM   #266
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I actually see the total opposite of this. If we were the 7th seed, then we NEED Brunson just to stay relevant. That's not the team now. We were still the 5th seed when Brunson was a nice 12 ppg backup pg two seasons ago who didn't show up in the playoffs.

Again, I want to keep Brunson at basically any cost, but I don't see the logic on it setting us so far back if he walks. Losing the future trade trip would be the biggest loss, but we weren't exactly a peasant team before his emergence.

Brunson was middling vs Phx and GS as well. I don't know if we're having this conversation on how badly we need him if it wasn't for the Jazz series. And yes, we don't even make it out of the first round without him. I just don't think we're back to the dark ages if he goes to NY.

I have every confidence in Nico to pivot to something else.
There?s nothing to pivot to since they?re already at the cap without JB
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:13 AM   #267
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There?s nothing to pivot to since they?re already at the cap without JB
Lol you can't make trades anymore? THJ and change for Brogdon or Hield. TJ Warren? There are a number of wings the Mavs could get for the right price. Yes, it might not be a Brunson guard, but with Dinwiddie, you can fill in more of a ball handling wing if need be.

People get stuck on not having cap space, but we made the KP trade for the very reason of trade flexibility.
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Old 06-25-2022, 01:28 PM   #268
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I actually see the total opposite of this. If we were the 7th seed, then we NEED Brunson just to stay relevant. That's not the team now. We were still the 5th seed when Brunson was a nice 12 ppg backup pg two seasons ago who didn't show up in the playoffs.

Again, I want to keep Brunson at basically any cost, but I don't see the logic on it setting us so far back if he walks. Losing the future trade trip would be the biggest loss, but we weren't exactly a peasant team before his emergence.

Brunson was middling vs Phx and GS as well. I don't know if we're having this conversation on how badly we need him if it wasn't for the Jazz series. And yes, we don't even make it out of the first round without him. I just don't think we're back to the dark ages if he goes to NY.

I have every confidence in Nico to pivot to something else.
You don't see the logic in losing your second best player for nothing being a step backwards? Also, remember that the Porzingis trade turned the whole season around, which was very underwhelming before that. The reason is because we desperately needed a third ballhandler, which Dinwiddie provides. If we lose Brunson, we're right back where we were.

I don't think we're back to the "dark ages." But I'm almost positive we're back to 6-7 seed range, and nowhere near the conference finals.

As Melonhead already said below, we can't just "pivot." The Mavs have extremely limited assets, and losing Brunson leaves us with even less. I don't think THJ gets us any of the players you named. If he could, I honestly think it would have already happened. Apparently Nico shopped THJ around all last season and nobody was interested.

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Old 06-25-2022, 01:36 PM   #269
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People get stuck on not having cap space, but we made the KP trade for the very reason of trade flexibility.
True, but the "flexibility" part of it was based on the assumption that Dinwiddie was just filler and would not be an integral part of the team. Yes, you can trade him, but you definitely lose something valuable in the process. Something that is not easily replaced. Just about all the players we have left that would attract any interest are important parts of our rotation. After that you're getting into guys like Maxi and DFS. Guys we would really miss.

That's why I'm really hoping we can flip Powell's expiring contract into something useful. That's one of the last real trade chips we have left.
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Old 06-25-2022, 02:11 PM   #270
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I found this excellent article about Hardy on r/Mavericks.

Apparently in high school his real strengths were scoring and playing off the ball, and a lot of his struggles in the g-league were due to him all of a sudden being made the primary ball handler. He struggled hard at first, but if you just look at the numbers, he progressed A LOT over his 24 games there (not 12 as I originally thought.)

First 8 Games:

17.1 PTS | 5.0 REB | 3.8 AST

1.4 STL | 3.3 TOV | 28.8 USG% | 45.5 TS%

32.9 FG% | 25.9 3P% | 90.5 FT%

Second 8 Games:

17.6 PTS | 2.9 REB | 2.9 AST

0.8 STL | 3.9 TOV | 31.2 USG% | 54.0 TS%

37.1 FG% | 27.8 3P% | 70.0 FT%

Last 8 Games:

22.5 PTS | 4.9 REB | 4.1 AST

1.8 STL | 2.9 TOV | 30.8 USG% | 54.9 TS%

42.2 FG% | 37.7 3P% | 85.7 FT%

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When you look back at Jaden Hardy as a high school basketball player, it?s not difficult to figure out his strengths. Hardy has lethal, and I do mean LETHAL, range from beyond the perimeter. Sometimes you wonder if he was ever going to hit the rim with some of his shooting displays. Hardy showed the most confidence when it came to playing off the ball. He?d run off a screen or two, catch a pass seven feet beyond the three-point line, and let it fly without any hesitation that it was going to be nothing but net.

Fast forward to the G-League Ignite, and it was a rude awakening at the beginning of the year for the sharpshooting guard. Many continued to scratch their heads and wonder what was happening to this once-projected Top 5 selection. If Hardy was supposed to be such a sensational talent when it came to his scoring ability, why was he struggling so much?

The best part about watching young prospects in the G-League is that you get a real opportunity to see the growth throughout the season. The Ignite knew exactly what Hardy was going to be comfortable with doing. They understood that the 19-year-old guard was a weapon from well beyond NBA range. But they also knew they needed to develop the rest of his game, even if it meant some growing pains were expected.

The G-League Ignite will put players in uncomfortable positions so they can get comfortable. In life, if you want to see growth, you got to get out of your comfort zone. The same can be said for basketball, especially when it comes to developing a young player.

So that?s exactly what the Ignite did. They put Hardy in an unfamiliar situation. They made him a primary ball-handler, asking him to run the offense and learn how to read opposing defenses. Sure, the Ignite could have simply allowed Hardy to play off the ball the entire year and continued to hammer away at his ?strength? on a nightly basis. But then what happens if he got to the NBA and can?t read a defense? What happens if he?s asked to run a pick-and-roll at the next level and he doesn?t understand how to go through his progressions?
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/exit...ne-jaden-hardy

I'm downright excited about this kid now. Could be a total steal. It'll probably be a season or two before we really see it, but down the road he could really be something.
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:00 PM   #271
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The idea that Brunson is a poor fit for this team, is an odd take. There are 3 players on the team that can dribble, get in the lane, and create their own shot. One of those players is quite flawed, and not a starter for a contender. The rest of the team can?t do any of those things. At all. Players who create their own shots are the most valuable thing in the game.
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:14 PM   #272
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Jaden Hardy shot 54.5% on unguarded Catch & Shoot opportunities this season. I believe he's going to thrive in a reduced role in Dallas.

He?s gonna get some open looks if he ever earns some minutes next to Luka
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:20 PM   #273
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Man watching Luka and

1) dude has to work on his scoring efficiency. 30% from the field. Bad from three. Bad from FT line

2) Wood is going to feast on open shots? both picks and pops.
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:24 PM   #274
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Man watching Luka and

1) dude has to work on his scoring efficiency. 30% from the field. Bad from three. Bad from FT line

2) Wood is going to feast on open shots? both picks and pops.
Are you talking about the Slovenia vs Italy game? I wouldn't put too much stock in it. It's only an exhibition game.
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:25 PM   #275
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^^ And last I checked, Slovenia was up by 20+, so I don't think Luka's sweating an inefficient stat line.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:03 PM   #276
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The idea that Brunson is a poor fit for this team, is an odd take. There are 3 players on the team that can dribble, get in the lane, and create their own shot. One of those players is quite flawed, and not a starter for a contender. The rest of the team can?t do any of those things. At all. Players who create their own shots are the most valuable thing in the game.
I agree with the value of a guy creating his own offense.

But.... JB is poor defensively. That's not a good fit next to Luka who is also sub par defensively.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:17 PM   #277
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Mavs twitter losing their minds thinking Brunson will walk. I mean, I guess the Knicks don't do all of this if they don't have an inside track with Rose, the dad, etc.

Still don't think it happens, but if it did, the only person really to blame is Donnie. And I suppose Cuban for letting Donnie sign Brunson to that absurd contract.
I find it hard to believe that a team even the Knicks are doing all this for Brunson when not too long ago they were talking about Donovan Mitchell. Mitchell is the quality of player I'd expect a team to gut their team for. Brunson? I don't understand it or see it.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:19 PM   #278
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Precisely. If this were the Mavs of a couple of seasons ago that was struggling just to make the 7th seed, I might be more receptive to letting Brunson walk in the hopes of making better moves in the future. But the Mavs just made the conference finals. This team is ready to contend NOW. Now is exactly the time to overpay to keep the team together. Especially with the Wood trade. This is one of the two or three best teams in the conference. We could very well end up in the finals. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's very possible. Losing Brunson now would be a huge step backwards and would set us back multiple seasons. Pay him now, worry about the financial implications later.
I agree. And I like Brunson and think he's apart of this teams future but if this front office decided he wasn't....that's fine. But I really hope they also believe that they don't have much trade assets to improve this team. When a player becomes available I'd rather have a even overpriced Brunson to bargain with as opposed to hoping someone takes on Hardaway Jr's contract. He can't walk to the Knicks for nothing.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:21 PM   #279
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I agree with the value of a guy creating his own offense.

But.... JB is poor defensively. That's not a good fit next to Luka who is also sub par defensively.
I don't view JB as a poor defender...his size probably iimits him against some guys but in 2022 I'm not really concerned with if one of my best scorers can play defense. I'd love a 2 way guy like Jimmy but they just aren't out there. So then you're stuck with one dimensional guys who can just play D and shoot 3's or a scorer who's limited defensively. If I have Bullock and DFS around Brunson I'm ok .
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:23 PM   #280
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Are you talking about the Slovenia vs Italy game? I wouldn't put too much stock in it. It's only an exhibition game.
If it only happened in exhibition games I?d be really pleased. Happened a lot in the regular and post season too

After conditioning and weight management, shooting needs to be Lukas focus
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