Phoenix just better than Dallas - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DarenG · 01-26-2007, 09:35 PM

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

Amare is on record saying that he's not even sure how close he is to 100% so there's no way we can really know. Still, two things lead me to believe that he was pretty close. 1) the fact that Dantoni played him 39 minutes and 2) The play at the end of the game where he jumped over Josh, caught the pass with one hand and dunked. You're obviously not remembering that game very well because he played above the rim all night and ended up with 25 and 13. That game was less than a month ago.?

I never said that Amare couldn't jump. I said he was playing below the rim for the most part. Most of his points in the game that I have watched were all from the free throw line and layups. Since Amare came back you would see him occasionally get up. The last couple of weeks Amare has not only playing above the rim again but hes also been more jumping more then I have seen him all season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Amare gives them a better dimension but not necessarily a different one. As a Mavs fan I'd love for him to spend more time working in the low post. Damp and Diop don't have much trouble handling him down there. He becomes unguardable when he's facing up from 15 feet and can go by your center or when finishing the pick and roll with Nash. Diaw and Marion can the same thing, just not quite as well.

I don't think Diop or Damp gan guard Amare period. All they can do is try and slow him down. Amare absolutely adds a different dimension because he's unstoppable close to the bucket. Who else on the team for the Suns is like that? Diaw? He was really good down low last season and the Suns got lucky finding him. As good as Amare though he isn't.

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

Josh is the Mavs best slasher and their best finisher in the paint. He can handle the ball, get out on the break, grab offensive rebounds and he’s one of the better shot blocking SF’s in the league.

Sounds alot like Marion to me.

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

His skillset is unique on this team but you’re kind of over simplifying things if your going to reduce every player to low post or perimeter.

I wasn't the one trying to reduce this to point diferrential comparison. To me that is oversimplifying the impact to what each player means to his team.

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

Again, do you think a Mavs team without Dirk could win 54 game and make the WCF?

If the Suns can get lucky enough to find 2 guys in Diaw and Tim Thomas to fill Amare's role then yes it's possible. Is it likely? No. The Suns got a little lucky there. However, I think by trying to say that missing Amare has the same impact as missing Howard is underestimating Amare's impact to a game. Especially, since him being back alone allows you to move Kurt off the bench.

Again, I think we both agree the Mavs are a better team. However, teams grow and change over the course of a season. Sometimes when playing the team later in the season is completely a different experience. Now add that you have a relatively healthy Suns team with someone like Amare almost 100% means this team will be different then the one we played last. I will feel much better when we beat them the next time then relying on how we played them before.

FINtastic · 01-26-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Amare is on record saying that he's not even sure how close he is to 100% so there's no way we can really know. Still, two things lead me to believe that he was pretty close. 1) the fact that Dantoni played him 39 minutes and 2) The play at the end of the game where he jumped over Josh, caught the pass with one hand and dunked. You're obviously not remembering that game very well because he played above the rim all night and ended up with 25 and 13. That game was less than a month ago.

It was weird because Amare wasn't really playing above the rim in the first half for the most part that night. He seemed to be trying to finesse it a lot. But in the second half, he started dunking, and he was dunking HARD. And that one handed alley-oop he got with a minute left has to rank up there with some of the sickest dunks I've seen in person. If he's not 100% he's pretty close.

FINtastic · 01-26-2007, 10:08 PM

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Sounds alot like Marion to me.

And that's a bad thing? You are way diminishing Marion's value if you think it is. I would say that Marion is probably more important than Amare even though Amare is the "sexier" player.

dirno2000 · 01-26-2007, 10:36 PM

[qutoe]I don't think Diop or Damp gan guard Amare period. All they can do is try and slow him down. Amare absolutely adds a different dimension because he's unstoppable close to the bucket. Who else on the team for the Suns is like that? Diaw? He was really good down low last season and the Suns got lucky finding him. As good as Amare though he isn't.[/quote]

Nope. In the first quarter of the game they went to Amare in the post and Damp had him on lock. He’s not that great of a low post player. His advantage is his ability to face up on centers like ours because they can’t match his speed. That’s why PHX’s offense was still highly productive without him last year. Diaw and Marion have the same advantage but they’re not as big thus they’re not as dominant. I was beginning to think that you were an undercover Suns fan but it’s becoming that clear that I was wrong. A true Suns fan would know these things.

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Sounds alot like Marion to me.

But Marion doesn’t play for the Dallas. You said that Josh doesn’t bring anything different to the table but he clearly does. How else on the Mavs has that skill set?

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I wasn't the one trying to reduce this to point diferrential comparison. To me that is oversimplifying the impact to what each player means to his team.

Net +/- tells us how each team performs with and without Josh and Amare on the court. Like I said, if there’s another stat out that that you’d like to throw out I’m all ears.

[qutoe]If the Suns can get lucky enough to find 2 guys in Diaw and Tim Thomas to fill Amare's role then yes it's possible. Is it likely? No. The Suns got a little lucky there. However, I think by trying to say that missing Amare has the same impact as missing Howard is underestimating Amare's impact to a game. Especially, since him being back alone allows you to move Kurt off the bench.[/quote]

If you’re saying Dallas can replace Dirk with Diaw and Thomas and have the year that PXH had last year then we’ll just have disagree.

dirno2000 · 01-26-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

It was weird because Amare wasn't really playing above the rim in the first half for the most part that night. He seemed to be trying to finesse it a lot. But in the second half, he started dunking, and he was dunking HARD. And that one handed alley-oop he got with a minute left has to rank up there with some of the sickest dunks I've seen in person. If he's not 100% he's pretty close.

PHX's problem (if you want to call this a problem) is that both Amare and Diaw are most effective in the high post. Early in the year (and early in that game) Diaw was working the high post while Amare was posting up. Thay abandoned that in the 2nd half and gave us a steady does of Nash/amare pick and roll. that's the one thing they do that we just don't have an answer for.

DarenG · 01-26-2007, 11:41 PM

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

[qutoe] He’s not that great of a low post player.

Take off the rose colored glasses. Your delusional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

[qutoe] I was beginning to think that you were an undercover Suns fan but it’s becoming that clear that I was wrong. A true Suns fan would know these things.

I just prefer to be more objective then be a blind fanboy. I have repeatedly stated that our team is better then the Suns. Are you sure your not the undercover fan because you seem to know more about the Suns then anybody I know. Even the Suns themselves.

dirno2000 · 01-26-2007, 11:52 PM

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Originally Posted by DarenG

Take off the rose colored glasses. Your delusional.

No glasses, just stating fact. Amare's a dominant player but not with his back to the basket.

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I just prefer to be more objective then be a [b]blind fanboy[b/]. I have repeatedly stated that our team is better then the Suns. Are you sure your not the undercover fan because you seem to know more about the Suns then anybody I know. Even the Suns themselves.

Resorting to name calling is the first sign that your argument is falling apart.

I do know the Suns pretty well but that's just because I watch a lot of basketball and they're currently the number one threat.

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 12:04 AM

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

No glasses, just stating fact. Amare's a dominant player but not with his back to the basket.

Fact? Says you.

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

Resorting to name calling is the first sign that your argument is falling apart. I do know the Suns pretty well but that's just because I watch a lot of basketball and they're currently the number one threat.

Faboyism = blind faith = no objectivity. Trust me you only think you know the Suns. If you actually had an argument that wasn't so slanted towards our team that I might actually take you seriously. Every point you make makes it sound like we are superior in every way. Your arguments are the only one becoming transparent and obviously not very objective.

dude1394 · 01-27-2007, 12:09 AM

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Originally Posted by DarenG

I might actually take you seriously.

eeek

dirno2000 · 01-27-2007, 12:45 AM

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Every point you make makes it sound like we are superior in every way.

Really? could you a little more specific because I don't think i've said anything negative about the Suns.

My main points have been:
- The Suns have been closer to 100% in both head to head match ups
- Josh is just as important to his team as Amare is to his. And Amare is nowhere near as important to the Suns as Dirk is to the Mavs. You said you had stats to prove otherwise but they never materialized.
- When Amare has hurt Dallas he's been facing up from the FT line or working the pick and roll with Nash. I also called him a dominant player more than one.

I've said nothing to indicate that I think the Mavs are superior in every way. In fact, you're the one that keeps saying that Dallas is better.

Now in a desperate attempt to save a little face, you’ve resorted to name calling. You’re not the first one.

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 07:20 PM

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

My main points have been:
- The Suns have been closer to 100% in both head to head match ups

Which is innacurate. Especially the 1st one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

- Josh is just as important to his team as Amare is to his. And Amare is nowhere near as important to the Suns as Dirk is to the Mavs. You said you had stats to prove otherwise but they never materialized.

Again grossly delusional. I also said that you have to take all the stats into consideration. I wasn't referring to anything specific. So you could just as easily look at career stats and averages on NBA.com. So if your to lazy to look em up that's your problem not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

- When Amare has hurt Dallas he's been facing up from the FT line or working the pick and roll with Nash.

Now I know you don't know what your talking about because one of Amare's bread and butter plays has always been his spin move in the lane. Not just the pick and roll and facing up. Amare has usually eaten Damp alive playing with his back to the baseket.

Again, nothing will be a better test to how we match up with them then the next game. Until then we don't have an accurate guage.

dirno2000 · 01-27-2007, 10:27 PM

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Which is innacurate. Especially the 1st one.

They're entire team was available for both matchups. Not true for Dallas.

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Again grossly delusional. I also said that you have to take all the stats into consideration. I wasn't referring to anything specific. So you could just as easily look at career stats and averages on NBA.com. So if your to lazy to look em up that's your problem not mine.

Yea, I figured you weren't referring to anything specific. So there are better stats than +/-, you just don't know what they are...you don't understand +/- do you?

And stop saying we. You joined the forum two days ago and immediatly went to all the threads pertaining to PXH to defend them. You're also overly sensitive to criticism of the Suns. It's clear that you're a Sun's fan. No big deal because opposing teams fans are allowed to post here. Just so that you know, it's obvious.

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 11:23 PM

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Originally Posted by dirno2000

They're entire team was available for both matchups. Not true for Dallas.

Really cause I thought Raja Bell was a starter? 1st game ZERO minutes. Also, having the entire team available and having them healthy is 2 different things. Again, if you had watched the Suns as much as you claim you wouldn't be making the rediculous observation that the Amare playing now is the same Amare we played in the last game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Yea, I figured you weren't referring to anything specific. So there are better stats than +/-, you just don't know what they are...you don't understand +/- do you?

Man sense your to lazy.

Career Avgs.

PPG
Amare - 19.6
Marion - 18.7
Howard - 12.3

RPG
Amare - 8.9
Marion - 10.1
Howard 6.2

APG
Amare - 1.2
Marion - 2.0
Howard - 1.2

BPG
Amare - 1.4
Marion - 1.3
Howard - 0.6

SPG
Amare - 0.9
Marion - 1.9
Howard - 1.2

That enough for you? Howard is not as important as either Marion or Amare when it comes to the impact they have on their team. I AM NOT sayind Howard is not an important to the MAVS. Only saying that you can't compare the impact that Amare has versus Howard when you look at what they have done for their teams since they got there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

And stop saying we. You joined the forum two days ago and immediatly went to all the threads pertaining to PXH to defend them. You're also overly sensitive to criticism of the Suns. It's clear that you're a Sun's fan. No big deal because opposing teams fans are allowed to post here. Just so that you know, it's obvious.

The only reason I have posted comments concerning the Suns is because their are too many of our fans looking for reasons to knock them down without looking at it objectively. I have made similar arguements for the Spurs on Real GM.com. I guess I am a Spurs fan too right? So what your saying is a Mavs fan can't objectively argue a point about the Suns or Spurs without being a fan? There are plenty of Mavs fans on this site that are alot more objective then you have shown to be. I guess they are closet Suns fans too.

You want to argue some Spurs points using your same reasoning? I would be happy to get into a debate regarding that too. Then again, I guess I am a Spurs fan too.

TheBlueVan · 01-27-2007, 11:32 PM

it might just be better to not join a forum then start pissing off the home team's fans, even if you are a fan. just a thought....

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 11:45 PM

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Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

it might just be better to not join a forum then start pissing off the home team's fans, even if you are a fan. just a thought....

The intent wasn't to piss off, it was to have an objective discussion in which some people are not capable of having. That's fine though. There a fanboys and there are Mavs fans who are also NBA fans. So maybe next time I will wait until I have posted 100 times before I start offending the coolaid drinkers. I do hear what your saying though.

dude1394 · 01-28-2007, 01:00 AM

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Originally Posted by DarenG

The intent wasn't to piss off, it was to have an objective discussion in which some people are not capable of having. That's fine though. There a fanboys and there are Mavs fans who are also NBA fans. So maybe next time I will wait until I have posted 100 times before I start offending the coolaid drinkers. I do hear what your saying though.

Don't do anyone any favors okay. La de da.

Drbio · 01-28-2007, 01:48 AM

Steve Nash Sucks.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-28-2007, 02:15 AM

Darren, I admire your valiant effort, but reading your debates with Dirno was a little bit like watching the 2004 vice-presidential debate. In the same way that Edwards looked like a child next to Cheney, going up against Dirno, you don't seem to know much about basketball.

First of all, D2K is by no means a "cool-aid drinker" and he is certainly not "delusional." He's one of the most objective posters around here. He calls' em like he sees' em. Je's a fan, not a fan boy. Most of the regulars around here are the same way. I know I try to be.

Second, you try to argue his points, but you never do site the necessary info or facts to support your statements.

D2K's absolutely right in that Amare is not a dominant, or even a very good "low post" player, and you couldn't be more wrong in calling him delusional. Amare doesn't score his points by battling for position down low, overpowering his man, or using fancy pivots, up-and-unders in the like to fake him out, nor does he even use short jumpers or hookshots. Amare scores the overwhelming majority of his points either on dribble-drives, or off the pick and roll. Come to think of it, I don't know that I've ever seen Amare "post up" in the traditional sense. The fact is, Amare plays quite a bit more like Dirk than he does like Duncan.

Quote:

Man sense your to lazy.

Career Avgs.

PPG
Amare - 19.6
Marion - 18.7
Howard - 12.3

RPG
Amare - 8.9
Marion - 10.1
Howard 6.2

APG
Amare - 1.2
Marion - 2.0
Howard - 1.2

BPG
Amare - 1.4
Marion - 1.3
Howard - 0.6

SPG
Amare - 0.9
Marion - 1.9
Howard - 1.2

That enough for you? Howard is not as important as either Marion or Amare when it comes to the impact they have on their team. I AM NOT sayind Howard is not an important to the MAVS. Only saying that you can't compare the impact that Amare has versus Howard when you look at what they have done for their teams since they got there.

You looked up some stats. That's a good start. But the problem is, you picked the wrong stats to make your point, and you made no kind of real argument whatsoever. D2K said Howard has had as much of an impact to the Mavs as Marion has to the Suns.

You have said absolutely nothing to make anyone here, at least not anyone who understands the game, think otherwise. If a player's impact on the game were judged by the statistics you pulled up, Steve Nash has less of an impact on the game that Michael Redd.

DarenG · 01-28-2007, 03:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Darren, I admire your valiant effort, but reading your debates with Dirno was a little bit like watching the 2004 vice-presidential debate. In the same way that Edwards looked like a child next to Cheney, going up against Dirno, you don't seem to know much about basketball.

First of all, D2K is by no means a "cool-aid drinker" and he is certainly not "delusional." He's one of the most objective posters around here. He calls' em like he sees' em. Je's a fan, not a fan boy. Most of the regulars around here are the same way. I know I try to be.

Second, you try to argue his points, but you never do site the necessary info or facts to support your statements.

D2K's absolutely right in that Amare is not a dominant, or even a very good "low post" player, and you couldn't be more wrong in calling him delusional. Amare doesn't score his points by battling for position down low, overpowering his man, or using fancy pivots, up-and-unders in the like to fake him out, nor does he even use short jumpers or hookshots. Amare scores the overwhelming majority of his points either on dribble-drives, or off the pick and roll. Come to think of it, I don't know that I've ever seen Amare "post up" in the traditional sense. The fact is, Amare plays quite a bit more like Dirk than he does like Duncan.

You looked up some stats. That's a good start. But the problem is, you picked the wrong stats to make your point, and you made no kind of real argument whatsoever. D2K said Howard has had as much of an impact to the Mavs as Marion has to the Suns.

You have said absolutely nothing to make anyone here, at least not anyone who understands the game, think otherwise. If a player's impact on the game were judged by the statistics you pulled up, Steve Nash has less of an impact on the game that Michael Redd.

Uh, ok?!? Wrong stats?! All of those stats support my point. What are you talking about? Nothing to prove my point? I have heard nothing from him but his opinion and nothing to support his point stat wise but differential? Are you kidding me? Differential? It's getting thick in here. If you used differential as a basis for how good someone is our their impact then the Suns would be as good as we are in defense. They are not. The Suns defensive power ranking was somewhere around 15 last time I checked. However, if you look at their overall Defensive differential its right up there with ours. Differential can be extremely misleading in any category.

By the way Amare plays nothing like Dirk. Dirk is jump shot first drive second. Amare is just the opposite. Duncan does post up more in the true sense I agree. However, Amare is hardly a jump shooter like Dirk. You 2 don't agree and that's cool. Obviously we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-28-2007, 06:31 AM

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Originally Posted by DarenG

Uh, ok?!? Wrong stats?! All of those stats support my point. What are you talking about? Nothing to prove my point? I have heard nothing from him but his opinion and nothing to support his point stat wise but differential? Are you kidding me? Differential? It's getting thick in here. If you used differential as a basis for how good someone is our their impact then the Suns would be as good as we are in defense. They are not. The Suns defensive power ranking was somewhere around 15 last time I checked. However, if you look at their overall Defensive differential its right up there with ours. Differential can be extremely misleading in any category.

Son, we're not talking about pure talent. Nobody here, least of all D2k is saying that Howard is as talented as Amare or Marion. D2K's argument is that he has as much of an impact to the Mavs as Marion does for the Suns. You said nothing to make me, or anyone else think otherwise.

PPG, APG, BPG, SPG? Try PER, or Net +/-. Like I said, wrong stats.

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By the way Amare plays nothing like Dirk. Dirk is jump shot first drive second. Amare is just the opposite. Duncan does post up more in the true sense I agree. However, Amare is hardly a jump shooter like Dirk. You 2 don't agree and that's cool.

Where the f*ck did I say ANYTHING about Amare being a jumpshooter? What I'm saying is, Amare doesn't post up AT ALL. I said most of his points come from dribble drives and off the pick-and-roll. Very similar to Dirk.

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Obviously we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

No, I won't leave it at that. You're just not getting what D2K and I are saying. You don't seem to understand what a "post player" is. A low-post scorer is someone who spends most of their time on the block battling their defender for position and waiting for the ball. Once he gets the ball he will use his weight move his defender out of the way, use pivots, pump-fakes, and up-and-under's to fake them out, or he will shoot short-jumpers, or hookshots over them.

Amare does none of these things.

Amare almost NEVER plays with his back to the basket. He and Dirk both score almost all of their points facing the basket. They both score a great deal of their points off the pick and roll, and dribble-drives. The difference is, Dirk is deadlier mid-range and farther than he is going all the way to the basket, unless he's going to the FT line, while Amare has a much more limited outside game, and is much more effective going for the dunk, especially off the pick-and-roll.

But my point remains. Both players score almost all of their points facing the basket. Like I said, Amare plays much more like Dirk than he does like Duncan.

DarenG · 01-29-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Son, we're not talking about pure talent. Nobody here, least of all D2k is saying that Howard is as talented as Amare or Marion. D2K's argument is that he has as much of an impact to the Mavs as Marion does for the Suns. You said nothing to make me, or anyone else think otherwise.

First off I'm not your son. Second you can't cherry pick stats to make your point which is exactly what your doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Where the f*ck did I say ANYTHING about Amare being a jumpshooter? What I'm saying is, Amare doesn't post up AT ALL. I said most of his points come from dribble drives and off the pick-and-roll. Very similar to Dirk.

I also said that I think Dirk jump shoots first, drives second. That is in pure contrast to the type of player Amare is. So I think they are completely different types of players and to try and compare them other then the overall impact they have on their teams is stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No, I won't leave it at that. You're just not getting what D2K and I are saying. A low-post scorer is someone who spends most of their time on the block battling their defender for position and waiting for the ball. Once he gets the ball he will use his weight move his defender out of the way, use pivots, pump-fakes, and up-and-under's to fake them out, or he will shoot short-jumpers, or hookshots over them.

You obviusly don't watch Amare play. Part of Amare's bread and butter is spin moves with his back to the basket. If you want to say that is not the majority of his points I could buy that. However, most of Dirks points are also jump shots. There is a huge contrast in how Dirk and Amare play.

Again, we will agree to disagree.

sike · 01-29-2007, 10:30 AM

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Originally Posted by Drbio

Steve Nash Sucks.

he is certainly the most fortunate player I've seen...

4cwebb · 01-29-2007, 10:09 PM

For everyone who thinks Amare is back to full strength, I point to his performance tonight against the Twolves. The game is still on going, but it's not pretty --- 8 pts, 4 rebounds in 34 minutes.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-29-2007, 10:10 PM

Suns down by 7 with 3 minutes to go.

nashtymavsfan13 · 01-29-2007, 10:11 PM

Steve Nash rocks, 20-4-17 with only 3 TO's and 3 made threes.

jthig32 · 01-29-2007, 10:35 PM

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Originally Posted by DarenG

You obviusly don't watch Amare play. Part of Amare's bread and butter is spin moves with his back to the basket. If you want to say that is not the majority of his points I could buy that. However, most of Dirks points are also jump shots. There is a huge contrast in how Dirk and Amare play.

He didn't say they were the same player. What he said is that Amare is more similar to Dirk than he is Duncan. He's right about that, and you've said nothing to prove otherwise.

TheBlueVan · 01-29-2007, 10:57 PM

and once again the suns show that they cant stop people when they have to, and that if their shots dont fall from 3, their goose is cooked

jthig32 · 01-29-2007, 11:01 PM

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Originally Posted by TheBlueVan

and once again the suns show that they cant stop people when they have to, and that if their shots dont fall from 3, their goose is cooked

Actually their 3's fell just fine (40%). The problem was they had twice as many turnovers as the Wolves, and they let the Wolves shoot 60%!!!

60%!!!

I'm trying to think of what I wouldn't give for the Spurs to lose to San Antonio AND Utah this week, to have a three game losing streak....I'm having a hard time coming up with something I wouldn't give.

TheBlueVan · 01-29-2007, 11:06 PM

i'll keep my "manhood"....well, a 3 game losing streak would be sweet...

Steve13 · 01-29-2007, 11:08 PM

certainly doesn't get any easier for Phoenix. One advantage they do have is playing both Spurs and Jazz at home.

Don't forget they have to go to Denver next monday to play the Nuggets. That won't be easy either. Not with Melo back.

V2M · 01-30-2007, 12:05 AM

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Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm trying to think of what I wouldn't give for the Spurs to lose to San Antonio AND Utah this week, to have a three game losing streak....I'm having a hard time coming up with something I wouldn't give.

Don't think that'll happen...

dude1394 · 01-30-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

You obviusly don't watch Amare play. Part of Amare's bread and butter is spin moves with his back to the basket. If you want to say that is not the majority of his points I could buy that. However, most of Dirks points are also jump shots. There is a huge contrast in how Dirk and Amare play.

Again, we will agree to disagree.

Son..Amare's bread and butter is a pass from nash for a dunk, that appears to be about the extent of his offensive abilities. You are right, dirk gets his own shot, Amare is given his.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-30-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

First off I'm not your son. Second you can't cherry pick stats to make your point which is exactly what your doing.

Okay, kid then. Kid, if anyone's "cherry picking" stats, it's you. We're talking about the impact a player has when he's in the game. That's what +/- is. Christ, you didn't even include FG% in your post.

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I also said that I think Dirk jump shoots first, drives second. That is in pure contrast to the type of player Amare is. So I think they are completely different types of players and to try and compare them other then the overall impact they have on their teams is stupid.

Of course Dirk shoots and drives second. But you still insist on being too bone-headed to get the fact that they both FACE THE GODDAMN BASKET!!!!

I never even said they were that much alike. I said that Amare plays more like Dirk than he does like Duncan, and that is a fact.

Quote:

You obviusly don't watch Amare play. Part of Amare's bread and butter is spin moves with his back to the basket. If you want to say that is not the majority of his points I could buy that. However, most of Dirks points are also jump shots. There is a huge contrast in how Dirk and Amare play.

Again, we will agree to disagree.

You can agree to disagree, and I'll agree that you just don't get what a low-post scorer is. Dirk uses lots of spin moves with his back to the basket as well. The difference is, he usually pulls up for the jumper instead of going for the dunk. But Amare's "bread and butter" is the pick-and-roll with Nash. And I never said there wasn't a contrast between the way Dirk and Amare play. Of course there is. But there are similarities as well. I'm not even trying to compare the two. As a matter of fact, forget I ever even mentioned Dirk. My only point is that Amare is not a "post player" in the true sense of the word. The overwhelming majority of his points come from drives, and off the pick-and-roll, not post-ups.

Dirkadirkastan · 01-30-2007, 01:26 AM

"Oh man, I don't think we can beat the Mavs this year."

-Suns fan right outside my dorm about fifteen minutes ago

DarenG · 01-30-2007, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Okay, kid then. Kid, if anyone's "cherry picking" stats, it's you. We're talking about the impact a player has when he's in the game. That's what +/- is. Christ, you didn't even include FG% in your post.

Actually I am your daddy, boy. Wow, I missed FG%. That would have turned the tide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You can agree to disagree, and I'll agree that you just don't get what a low-post scorer is.

As long as you agree with yourself all is right in the world.