Atlanta decides where to send Josh Smith

[EricaLubarsky]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar...als_for_smith/

There are at least two blockbuster sign-and-trade proposals the Atlanta Hawks are considering regarding Josh Smith.

One is from a Western Conference team and the other from the Eastern Conference with both teams apparently being amongst the NBA's powers.

The “proverbial” ball appears to be clearly in the Hawks’ court regarding both opportunities.

Via Atlanta Journal-Constitution

[LonghornDub]

I hope it's not the Spurs.

[alby]

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=33467

[EricaLubarsky]

Does every thread need to be folded into another thread? I thought this article provided a little more information on a situation and wasnt specifically or explicitly about the Mavs.

Besides, no one reads the trade section any more.

[alby]

maybe you're right, but post 75 in the same thread provides even more information with a longer article.

[jthig32]

Call me crazy, but the idea of Josh Smith doesn't excite me that much. He's a PF. Now he might be the perfect guy to play alongside Dirk offensively, but can he guard quick SF's?

I dunno.

[LonghornDub]

I wouldn't trade Howard for Smith, and I don't even like Howard.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Josh Smith could play all of the back-up 4 minutes (including starting at SF obviously). My guess is that Howard and Bass are being offered.

I dunno, I have a feeling about this one. I'm now thinking that Josh Howard is being shopped heavily if that wasn't already obvious.

[thereaper]

Personally I'd trade Josh for Josh, but I have serious doubts that the Mavs braintrust would, which disappoints me to say the least.

[BGMaverick9]

Howard is 28, Smith is...22?
I would say Smith isn't super far behind Howard and he can still find ways to get better, and that youth is a huge thing. He can guard at least 3 positions on the court.

[alby]

Even at 28 and 22 years of age, Smith is by no means behind Howard.

[BGMaverick9]

Exactly...that's my point. If you consider him behind Howard, he has plenty of time to get better to wherever you think Howard is, in terms of being the better player.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

It's a deal that tips in their favor for sure if we include Bass.

The Hawks would probably start him.

Bibby
Johnson
Howard
Bass
Horford

I can't see who could offer them a better deal then that.

[Robillion]

That would be a great move for the Hawks and I think a terrible move for us. Id love to get Josh Smith here... but not by giving up Howard and Bass unless we got another quality player out of the deal. ... it is our turn to steal a trade damnit! No more giving up the farm. The power is actually in the receiving team's hands a little here....if Josh Smith stays with the Hawks this year he is more likely going to be playing with a 1 year deal and if he is still unhappy then he will just walk this summer. The Hawks NEED to make a move this summer with Smith.

[BGMaverick9]

Howard for Smith is fine...I'm not sure where the problem is with including Bass. Bass, again is playing behind our best player, so that means he isn't going to get a lot of time.

There are guys like Rhodes and Singleton, even Smith who can take those minutes.

[EricaLubarsky]

I'm not sure you'd find many people that would prefer Howard over Smith for a variety of reasons
1) Change for change sake-- maybe not a bad motivation. The team has seemed very listless and maybe just a change of personel would improve the team outlook and morale.
2) Coachability-- I dont think Smith has a huge track record but we know that Howard completely tuned out Avery. Will Howard tune out Carlisle? No one knows.
3) Talent-- Howard's defensive intensity is really in question and whether its his ethic or his physical limitation, he cannot guard guards. Smith hustles and moves his feet well but is still raw when it comes to going for shot fakes. Smith is a shotblocking machine. Howard is a better offensive player but chooses his shots poorly-- neither should be taking threes regularly.
4) Fit-- Smith's game would be like Marion's with the Suns-- hustle, slashing without the basket, defending, blocking shots and going for pogo rebounds. While Josh Howard is the more talented offensive player, Howard's game is an iso game that isntfully exhibited on the court and is further diminished by lazy play and an unwillingness to pass. Smith appears to be a much better fit, and I dont think we would lose much offensively while gaining a lot defensively.

Whether or not we are in the running is up in the air but I think there is at least one good argument that Smith would be the better fit here. Bass is the big question mark. While Rhodes has appeared to play like Bass in summer league play, it has yet to be seen if he can translate any of that into NBA play. Rhodes' ballhandling is sub-par, his arms are shorter, his mobility is more limited, his athleticism not as pronounced-- all for a guy that has not showed a reliable jumper.

[jthig32]

You guys really think Smith can guard all the SF's in the NBA? He's 6-9 230. He plays PF exclusively for the Hawks.

I think he's a real nice player, and would be great playing next to Kidd, but I have a hard time picturing him playing SF exclusively.

He also has attitude problems.

[EricaLubarsky]

Howard has attitude problems and I'd rather have a nutcase blocking shots than a nutcase jacking up threes, tuning out the coach and being a public distraction.

And yeah I think Smith is at least as good as Howard on the defensive end against SFs -- that is, if you consider Smith's overall contribution to team defense as well as Howard's lackidaisical footwork and effft. Offensively Smith would be a power/size mismatch that could get in the lane for tip-ins, oops, and inside passes at will. You lose nothing. I think a combo of Dirk and Smith would be nasty whether you call Dirk or Smith the Small Forward.

Kidd is slowing down so we will have to zone it up a little more than before and without a dominant perimeter defender I would really prefer to hem up the frontcourt defense by having 2- 7 footers and as many shot blockers as possible.

[jthig32]

I'm no huge Josh supporter but saying he has attitude problems is a stretch at this point. Shotblocking is nice, but if Smith can't guard 3's then he's not a fit on this team.

[alby]

Can Josh Howard guard 3's?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by alby

Can Josh Howard guard 3's?

Come on dude. Josh has enough negatives without making stuff up. He's an above average defender and by far the Mavs best swing position defender that also has some semblance of an offensive game.

[EricaLubarsky]

I think there is a very good chance that Smith on an average day is at least as good defending his man as Howard is when he's just "chillin" and Smith loves to help on the weakside.

Its not that Smith is the answer to all the problems, but just that he's a huge upgrade on Howard. Howard is an amazing talent but he's also lazy on defense, and wastes his talent on lazy plays, jacked shots and ballhoggery.

[BGMaverick9]

I don't see how he could be dramatically worse than Howard was at the 3, he is also going to be a better help defender than Howard.

haha...we are on the same page.

[Tokey41]

I wouldn't have a problem throwing Bass into the deal if that's what it took, it would hurt giving up that much talent but again Smith could fill those minutes if need be.

[alby]

Wel, Howard definitely can't guard 1's (he stopped moving his feet after 2005), but I can say that he is average to above average at defending 2's and 3's.

Josh Smith can't guard 1's and 2's, but I can say that he is above average at defending 3's and 4's. This would make him the perfect compliment to Dirk when we play small ball for stretches during a game.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Tokey41

I wouldn't have a problem throwing Bass into the deal if that's what it took, it would hurt giving up that much talent but again Smith could fill those minutes if need be.

you convinced me-- I didnt want to give up Bass but Smith would be an upgrade at the 3, and a significant upgrade at the backup 4. All the glut of 2/3 players we have could easily fill in behind Smith and we could go

Small- Kidd/??/Stack/Smith/Dirk
or
Power- Kidd/Stack/Smith/Dirk/Damp or Diop

[jthig32]

I'll admit I don't see Josh Smith play that much, but I doubt very seriously that he's above average guarding quick 3's. He's just too big.

I'm willing to accept Smith being an upgarde over Josh, but huge upgrade? Don't think so. And he'd be a better fit on a team that needed a PF.

[LonghornDub]

I don't agree at all that Smith isn't behind Howard. Howard makes dumb plays, but he's a better player overall at this point, IMO.

[BGMaverick9]

Are you forgetting Jet?

[jthig32]

BTW, since people are mentioning JHo jacking up shot; last season JSmith average more than 1 three attempt a game, while shooting them at a 25% clip. That is absolutely unacceptable.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'll admit I don't see Josh Smith play that much, but I doubt very seriously that he's above average guarding quick 3's. He's just too big.

How is he drastically different in terms of size vs 3s like Lebron, Carmelo, RJ?

Originally Posted by jthig32

BTW, since people are mentioning JHo jacking up shot; last season JSmith average more than 1 three attempt a game, while shooting them at a 25% clip. That is absolutely unacceptable.

That's where Jet makes a huge difference, and where youth comes into play. He can still learn to develop a 3 point shot.

[alby]

Originally Posted by jthig32

BTW, since people are mentioning JHo jacking up shot; last season JSmith average more than 1 three attempt a game, while shooting them at a 25% clip. That is absolutely unacceptable.

I guess he can afford jacking one three a game since he averages 1 dime more than Jho, 1 steal more than Jho, and 1 block more than Jho =]

[alby]

Kidd/Wright/Smith/Dirk/Damp
JET/Diop/Stack/Green

give me give me

[jthig32]

He's a PF, what he needs to learn is to not shoot them.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

I guess he can afford jacking one three a game since he averages 1 dime more than Jho, 1 steal more than Jho, and 1 block more than Jho =]

if you want to say this is Howard's best year:
Smith has him on boards by 1.2
Assists by 1.2
Steals by .7
and blocks by 1.4

the shooting does go to Howard

And Smith did it in slightly less minutes than Howard.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'll admit I don't see Josh Smith play that much, but I doubt very seriously that he's above average guarding quick 3's. He's just too big.

I'm willing to accept Smith being an upgarde over Josh, but huge upgrade? Don't think so. And he'd be a better fit on a team that needed a PF.

Smith is never going to be a great matchup with quicker 3s like T-Mac in a man-to-man defense but I think people remember Howard's defense as being much more stellar than it was. Howard was lazy and just didnt move his feet-- usually getting his long arms caught around his man and fouling. In a hybrid zone, though I think Smith would really shine because of how explosive he is on the weakside.

I also think we are being a little too strict with the 1-5 position. We have a center position and we have a point position, but everything else is rather subjective.

Our star has the size of a 5 but not the strength, athleticism or shotblocking. He plays the offense of a 3 and is an average defender of 4s, 5s and slower 3s.

Smith moves a lot like Marion or Kirilenko and no one would have a problem playing Dirk with one of them.

[Stranger]

A Josh-for-Josh trade would open up an even bigger hole at the swing positions, since J-Smoove is unlikely to ever see time at the 2. But it might allow us to move Bass, since Smith could probably take the 10-12 minutes behind Dirk at power forward. We might be able to move Bass for, say, Damien Wilkins or someone.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by alby

Kidd/Wright/Smith/Dirk/Damp
JET/Diop/Stack/Green

give me give me

Kidd/Wright/Smith? Not a chance in hell.

With Kidd at PG and Smith at SF, your SG better be able to fill it UP from three. Jet would absolutely have to start in that scenario.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Kidd/Wright/Smith? Not a chance in hell.

With Kidd at PG and Smith at SF, your SG better be able to fill it UP from three. Jet would absolutely have to start in that scenario.

I don't see that as a problem then, and that fixes any qualms you have with Smith and he's 3 point shooting, Jet and Kidd can easily shoot the 3 ball, so can Dirk.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Smith is never going to be a great matchup with quicker 3s like T-Mac in a man-to-man defense but I think people remember Howard's defense as being much more stellar than it was. Howard was lazy and just didnt move his feet-- usually getting his long arms caught around his man and fouling. In a hybrid zone, though I think Smith would really shine because of how explosive he is on the weakside.

I also think we are being a little too strict with the 1-5 position. We have a center position and we have a point position, but everything else is rather subjective.

Our star has the size of a 5 but not the strength, athleticism or shotblocking. He plays the offense of a 3 and is an average defender of 4s, 5s and slower 3s.

Smith moves a lot like Marion or Kirilenko and no one would have a problem playing Dirk with one of them.

That last point is a fair one. Maybe I am being a little strict on the position assigments on defense.